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bobbygedd
08-26-2005, 09:01 AM
i have expanded into consulting . i have one party allready interested, we are meeting monday for lunch and to discuss the contract. he wants to open a lawn service. he has money to invest. he also lives in my main service area. the first thing i want is some type of no compete agreement. what would be fair? i would want him not to advertise in my service area for a period of 2-3 yrs. second- i would offer hands on consulting which would involve going with him to purchase equipment, showing him how to use it, showing him how to advertise, and going on the estimates with him to ensure he lands the work. i want a percentage of the $$$ from jobs that i land for him, for a period of??? what is reasonable? can i ask for 10% of his annual gross from each client? i also want sole control over the chemicals on all his clients properties. he's not licensed, and i want all the ferts for xxx years on his clients properties. also, there are many small towns here, i work in 4 of them, and make it a point to avoid the rest. i would want him to only operate in the towns that i don't, for a period of xxx yrs. help me out here. anyone ever do consulting, and how do you expect to get paid for this? p.s thanks for the phonecall sean

walker-talker
08-26-2005, 09:19 AM
10% sounds a little steep to me. I personally charge others 5% for any leads I send their way...and I think that is fair. What you are doing sounds a little bizarre to me, but you are from New Jersey and things are done a little different there. Nothing wrong with helping the competition, but definetely would want some kind of no-compete contract drawn up. I am just wondering if after a few years and the contract is expired and his business is more successful than yours....what would that mean for you? If he has money to invest in equipment and consulting, why don't he just buy into a fanchise?

Mower For Less
08-26-2005, 09:59 AM
What you describe is closer to franchising than consulting. Usually consultants charge for their time, and their time only. They get no residuals on sales made from their advice.

Maybe you could sell him a franchise, then you couls dictate his territory, commisions, etc...

Kevin

bobbygedd
08-26-2005, 11:00 AM
i'm offering hands on consultation. soup to nuts. litterally take him by the hand and walk him through everything. i will land the jobs for him. that is 80% of this business. i want a percentage of his annual gross from each client. i won't charge for my actual time for doing the estimates, i think i'll make more doing it on a % because i have a better than average success rate in my estimate to signing ratio

Ric
08-26-2005, 12:48 PM
http://tinypic.com/b632gl.gif

BooBy

Be sure the man has all the right tools. I believe the first and most inportant one is Pictured Below.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/Ricyard/FishHookExtractor.gif

MOturkey
08-26-2005, 04:40 PM
Bobby, I don't know if I'm the only one who thinks this way or not, but if you are going to get the accounts, buy the equipment, train him on the equipment, show him the ropes, etc., plus be taking care of the chemical and fertilization end of things on these properties, then why don't you just hire yourself another top-notch employee, train them, and have the business for yourself?

I can see doing something like this for a friend, purely for the sake of friendship, but the monetary rewards, would, or should, be much greater if you would simply expand your own business by that same amount. Just my opinion, for what it is worth. Neill

bobbygedd
08-26-2005, 04:50 PM
neil, i would not be buying the mowers, i would be paid for my time as i help him choose the mowers, and show him how to use them. i would show him how to price the work, how to do the work. i would introduce him to suppliers, dumpsite, etc, etc, for all of this i'd be paid for my time. i would go with him on the estimates, and for this i'd recieve a % of gross for each customer i sign for him. he would not be permitted to mkt my exsisting service areas for a period of time. i am currently expanding quickly in my exsisting service areas, i have no desire to work outside of them. i would be pulling a % of his gross, for work i never would have done anyhow, cus it's not in my area. the ferts would be gravy. i'd visit the properties every 45 days or so for an aplication. if it didn't work out, who cares, it's not my client anyhow.

wbw
08-26-2005, 05:23 PM
What the percentage should be, but I think something on a sliding scale i.e. 10% year 1, 9% year 2, 8% year 3 and so on. BTW I think this is an excellent idea.

bobbygedd
08-26-2005, 06:02 PM
What the percentage should be, but I think something on a sliding scale i.e. 10% year 1, 9% year 2, 8% year 3 and so on. BTW I think this is an excellent idea.
of course it's an excellent idea. it allows me to pull a paycheck, from outside my service area, while keeping him out of my service area. he will benefit greatly because, he won't go thru the trials and errors that everyone else went through. he won't get his butt kicked like everyone else did when they first started. he will pull a profit immediately in his new business. i just need something fair to present to him.

rodfather
08-26-2005, 06:06 PM
If it were me, I would have to ask myself how much is this situation is ego-driven....then I would go from there is all.

wbw
08-26-2005, 06:07 PM
of course it's an excellent idea. it allows me to pull a paycheck, from outside my service area, while keeping him out of my service area. he will benefit greatly because, he won't go thru the trials and errors that everyone else went through. he won't get his butt kicked like everyone else did when they first started. he will pull a profit immediately in his new business. i just need something fair to present to him.

No matter how badly you "OVERCHARGE" him, he will still be ahead of the game. How many times on this site have people said something like "Well I didn't make any money this year but hey it's only my second year in the business." He should hit the ground running with your help. Best of luck with this new endeavor.

Precision
08-26-2005, 06:31 PM
question is will you be able to find the deals on mowers and trucks that you have and will he not look just like your company when he follows the BG method to success. Will you share your trim then mow secret with two crews? Will you require him to get a mullet and drink Silver Bullet.

All kidding aside, if you have the time and he has the money, it sounds like a very good idea. I would go non-compete for 2 years and do 7.5% year one and 5% year 2 and lock him into 3 years of fert business coming your way.

For the business expertise I would charge $60-100 per billable hour but give him a cap price of say $7500 ( for start up information / time) then once he starts running into problems in season charge the same rate hourly with no cap to fix his teathing problems.

dishboy
08-26-2005, 06:43 PM
neil, i would not be buying the mowers, i would be paid for my time as i help him choose the mowers, and show him how to use them. i would show him how to price the work, how to do the work. i would introduce him to suppliers, dumpsite, etc, etc, for all of this i'd be paid for my time. i would go with him on the estimates, and for this i'd recieve a % of gross for each customer i sign for him. he would not be permitted to mkt my exsisting service areas for a period of time. i am currently expanding quickly in my exsisting service areas, i have no desire to work outside of them. i would be pulling a % of his gross, for work i never would have done anyhow, cus it's not in my area. the ferts would be gravy. i'd visit the properties every 45 days or so for an aplication. if it didn't work out, who cares, it's not my client anyhow.

This is funny stuff. Paying for help buying mowers from BOBBYGEDD, the guy who buys POS Redhawk mowers and then cries because he was not sober enough to see the axle was set to low before taking it home.................

bobbygedd
08-26-2005, 06:48 PM
i'm glad you enjoyed it. unlike yourself, i reach a bit higher than the ground.

bobbygedd
08-28-2005, 09:08 AM
i'm hoping to get more input on this, as i am meeting with my first client on monday. thanks

jtrice11
08-28-2005, 01:04 PM
i have expanded into consulting . i have one party allready interested, we are meeting monday for lunch and to discuss the contract. he wants to open a lawn service. he has money to invest. he also lives in my main service area. the first thing i want is some type of no compete agreement. what would be fair? i would want him not to advertise in my service area for a period of 2-3 yrs. second- i would offer hands on consulting which would involve going with him to purchase equipment, showing him how to use it, showing him how to advertise, and going on the estimates with him to ensure he lands the work. i want a percentage of the $$$ from jobs that i land for him, for a period of??? what is reasonable? can i ask for 10% of his annual gross from each client? i also want sole control over the chemicals on all his clients properties. he's not licensed, and i want all the ferts for xxx years on his clients properties. also, there are many small towns here, i work in 4 of them, and make it a point to avoid the rest. i would want him to only operate in the towns that i don't, for a period of xxx yrs. help me out here. anyone ever do consulting, and how do you expect to get paid for this? p.s thanks for the phonecall sean

You have to establish an hourly rate. % of his profits is nonsense, what if he doesn't make any money?

bobbygedd
08-28-2005, 01:07 PM
You have to establish an hourly rate. % of his profits is nonsense, what if he doesn't make any money?
i'm a bit smarter than that. i want a % of his GROSS, not his net. with me making the sales calls, he will sign new clients, he will have a decent GROSS, that is what i want a piece of, i am banking on myself, not him.

Kelly's Landscaping
08-28-2005, 03:53 PM
Mob Boy the Sopranos episode with landscapers only charged 2% if your charging 10% who are you kicking up too thatís just theft.

rodfather
08-28-2005, 03:56 PM
Bobby, when are you going to find the time to do all of this?

mcclureandson
08-28-2005, 03:57 PM
Consulting? Must be nice to have that much time on your hands...if I were to consider it the return on my 'investment' (job knowledge, contacts, sales techniques etc) would have to at least equal what I earn hourly with my own company...I don't see anyone paying thousands of dollars for the service. It would be less expensive for a new guy to sniff out his own accounts, make a few bad equipment choices and under-bid his first six months worth of work...he would at least LEARN that way...the school of hard knocks has no equal IMO. Good luck, regardless.

geogunn
08-28-2005, 04:00 PM
i have expanded into consulting .

you are going into consulting and you pose questions to members here for their answers to your new business. amazin'.

GEO

bobbygedd
08-28-2005, 04:00 PM
Bobby, when are you going to find the time to do all of this?
i got all the time in the world, my friend. btw, any input on this matter from you?

bobbygedd
08-28-2005, 04:07 PM
if i land him only 10 accounts, for the rest of the season, that would be around , let's see- 80 cuts @$30 each= $2400. leaf cleanup on same 10 properties about $250 each= $2500. that's $4,900 x .10- $490. this would be my percentage, then add my hourly rate for the consultation, i'm assuming 10 hrs of consulting at $75 per= $750 + $490= $1,240. FOR NOTHING! next year, it would probly add up to $10-$20,000 .

rodfather
08-28-2005, 04:11 PM
I actually have mixed thoughts about it bg.

Initially, I thought (and still continue to do so) that it's a great idea. It's also a great opportunity to your friend. His "learning curve" will be vastly steeper and shorter than those who have gone through the School of Hard Knocks (like you and me).

Conversely, we all only have so many hours in a day to get done what we need to accomplish. You say you have all the time in the world. My only concern/issue with this arrangement you are contemplating is, will you be making as much money (or more) helping this gentleman vs. putting that same effort into your own business and expanding it as well?

I hope I am making sense (no pun intended)...almost forgot, wish ya the best in your new venture too.

bobbygedd
08-28-2005, 09:15 PM
you are going into consulting and you pose questions to members here for their answers to your new business. amazin'.

GEO
what are your thoughts on the matter? and how, did your pet funeral service business work out?

CutInEdge Lawn Care
08-28-2005, 10:36 PM
Bobby, what happens when you miss a call in your service area because you are consulting/Training your friend. Let's say this caller leaves a message and calls another LCO at the same time for an estimate.However another LCO grabs the estimate and lands the job because you were predisposed and 30 min late getting to the phone message. Now this job would have been a $10,000/ yr account. Now what is the consulting fee worth?

Soupy
08-28-2005, 10:55 PM
Why not just become a partner. He fronts the cash/labor and you run the business end.

geogunn
08-28-2005, 11:59 PM
what are your thoughts on the matter? and how, did your pet funeral service business work out?

bob--one hole dug, probably made more money than you do on most days.

GEO

bobbygedd
08-29-2005, 06:19 AM
bob--one hole dug, probably made more money than you do on most days.

GEO
yes geo, illegal ventures usually are very profitable. cutnedge, i have hired a receptionist starting 3/1/06, to man the phones and relay any important calls to me asap. soupy, no partners, no thanx. and rod, i'm afraid i just may have to stop taking sundays/mondays/ tuesdays off :cry: . so, i gather the overall attitude of this board is that my new venture will be counterproductive. i can't imagine HOW y'all came to that conclusion. there is no way i'd be servicing these areas anyhow. at least this way, i'd be getting a few crumbs , and remember, the bigger the pie, the bigger the crumbs. we meet at 1 pm, wish me luck.

rodfather
08-29-2005, 06:25 AM
we meet at 1 pm, wish me luck.

A bit of advice before your meeting...you get more out of listening than you do from talking.

bobbygedd
08-29-2005, 06:38 AM
A bit of advice before your meeting...you get more out of listening than you do from talking.
very good advice. as i sip my sangria, i'll ask him to TELL ME, what he is looking for. then, i'll slam him with my 16 page contract

Mower For Less
08-29-2005, 10:26 AM
you are going into consulting and you pose questions to members here for their answers to your new business. amazin'.

GEO

LMFAO, what an incredible irony! LOL :dizzy:

That is the funniest observation I have seen on Lawnsite in a long time.

Kevin

bobbygedd
08-29-2005, 10:49 AM
laugh all you want. all great men were laughed at.....ben franklin, thomas edison, jerry garcia. my paperwork is final, and here are my terms: he will be allowed to work anywhere, except the 4 towns listed on the contract. he will pay me $75 an hour for all consultation, including hands on /on jobsite training, the use of my contracts with his letterhead. i will do his estimates, free of charge. he will pay me 10% of gross sales for the remainder of 2005, plus all of 2006, and april/may/june of 2007. i will be in charge of all fert + chem apps on his clients properties, with 100% of sales going to me, nothing to him. fair?

jtrice11
08-29-2005, 10:55 AM
i'm a bit smarter than that. i want a % of his GROSS, not his net. with me making the sales calls, he will sign new clients, he will have a decent GROSS, that is what i want a piece of, i am banking on myself, not him.

You must be extreeeeemly confidant that your gonna sell, sell, sell.

bobbygedd
08-29-2005, 10:57 AM
You must be extreeeeemly confidant that your gonna sell, sell, sell.
yes, i am, am, am

topsites
08-29-2005, 11:09 AM
i'm offering hands on consultation. soup to nuts. litterally take him by the hand and walk him through everything. i will land the jobs for him. that is 80% of this business. i want a percentage of his annual gross from each client. i won't charge for my actual time for doing the estimates, i think i'll make more doing it on a % because i have a better than average success rate in my estimate to signing ratio

I don't want nobody's nuts in my soup lol

Big Red
08-29-2005, 01:58 PM
If a person has a decent amount of money to invest, why in the world would they choose this profession? Most guys on this site had zip to start with. Do him a favoar and steer him toward the nearest university. And oh yea, Bobby G, your plan is a pipe dream. KW

Ric
08-29-2005, 04:49 PM
Bobby

Ok I am an interest person and want to engage your service as a consultant. I have no equipment. But I have the money and credit to purchase equipment and live while starting up a business. I know very little about the green business, but I am able to learn quickly and work hard.

WHAT can you do for me that justifies my giving you 10% of gross. Not How but WHAT?

BTW this is a serious question and your answer may in fact get you more leads of potential clients.

bobbygedd
08-30-2005, 07:45 AM
didn't you read the thread ric? i TOLD YOU what i will provide.

Ric
08-30-2005, 09:44 AM
Dear Potential Businessman

As a Successful Green Industry Businessman my self I can Help you access your market potential and all factor of it, including Competitive prices. Only After we know your true Market potential can we select a target market to build a business plan.

This Business Plan will include a Marketing approach to a Target Area and the selection of the best equipment to handle the job effectively. I will also be able to help you project costs of doing business and the all important Cost per man hour. Cost per Man hour plus a profit margin is the only way to bid work successfully. By setting a actuate accounting system, we can tract your on going Cost of Doing Business and help control those Costs. Further More I can teach you the Art of estimating once a Cost per man hour is established. This way you will never lose money on a bid. Marketing and sales are some of my expertises and I am avaible to help you sell jobs at a real profit.

Please free to contact me with any question you may have. I am a licensed applicator in the state of New Jersey and a Expert Fertilizer spreader.

BooBy Geilding
Big Blobb Business Consultants
1732 Nice St
Perth Amboy, NJ.
888-555-7852

wacamaster
08-30-2005, 11:25 AM
Bobbyged, your idea sucks. If you have your own biz in another area.. how would you have time to take care of all his ****? It seems to me your lazy and are trying to think of ways to make money without having to actually go out and cut a lawn. The truth is.. unless you are very established, you have to cut. And if you were very established and didn't have to cut.. instead of doing all the **** for him, why wouldn't you just do it for yourself and expand into the area, and keep 100% of the money?

tinman
08-30-2005, 12:30 PM
you are going into consulting and you pose questions to members here for their answers to your new business. amazin'.

GEO
LOL................ :rolleyes:

Ric
08-30-2005, 12:34 PM
Bobbyged, your idea sucks. If you have your own biz in another area.. how would you have time to take care of all his ****? It seems to me your lazy and are trying to think of ways to make money without having to actually go out and cut a lawn. The truth is.. unless you are very established, you have to cut. And if you were very established and didn't have to cut.. instead of doing all the **** for him, why wouldn't you just do it for yourself and expand into the area, and keep 100% of the money?


wacamaster

I am afraid BooBy doesn't understand what a real business is. I am sure he does well working part time mowing grass and full time posting. However One man with a helper is not really a business, it is a Job. Call it self employment, but Basically it is a job. Not a bad Job and gives you alot of freedom to do it your way without a direct boss. The fact is many don't realize they are trading benefits for cash. Some also not realize they are cheating themselves and passing the saving on to the customer.

If you don't have an actuate bookkeeping system with spread sheets that show profit and loss, cash flow, Cost of Goods Sold (fertilizer), Cost Per Man Hour, and Balance sheet. Then you are not a Business man no matter how many employee or customers you have.

Ric When do you work???? you sure post alot.

Oh I don't work. I am a retired Businessman.

bobbygedd
08-30-2005, 01:08 PM
Bobbyged, your idea sucks. If you have your own biz in another area.. how would you have time to take care of all his ****? It seems to me your lazy and are trying to think of ways to make money without having to actually go out and cut a lawn. The truth is.. unless you are very established, you have to cut. And if you were very established and didn't have to cut.. instead of doing all the **** for him, why wouldn't you just do it for yourself and expand into the area, and keep 100% of the money?
typical lawnboy mentality, the only way they can think of to make a buck, is to leave a tub of sweat on the clients property.

Ric
08-30-2005, 01:52 PM
BooBy

You seem to have overlooked my posts. You have no comment on them???

Rhett
08-30-2005, 02:42 PM
Bob, If he will go for it I guess it would be fine for you. There would be advantages for him but I believe the help starting would be out wieghed by the cost after the first couple of years. As far as help buying equipment thats what this site is for and the first couple of years. If he can not hustle his own business maybe he should think about working for someone else. :( Plus I feel kinda dumb as I have filled two new guys schedules this year. Heck they have nicer equipment than I have and all I have gotten out of it was thank you. Guess that is enough. :(

bobbygedd
08-30-2005, 06:46 PM
BooBy

You seem to have overlooked my posts. You have no comment on them???
your posts are silly. you confuse "being a professional business man", and making money. i know alot of "professional businessmen" , who don't make much money. and i know alot of not so "professional businessmen", who make alot of money. if your goal is/was to be a professional, then so be it. my goal, is to make alot of money. let's face the facts, lawnboys are not rocket scientists, even the smarter ones are still dumber than a tree stump. i don't have to outrun the bear...i only, have to outrun you

K.Carothers
08-30-2005, 09:52 PM
If the man has cash like you said, then why don't you sell him your business and take the cash and start another venture? Just a thought :waving:

Soupy
08-30-2005, 11:14 PM
So how did the meeting go? Did he sign the 16 page contract?

Brianslawn
08-31-2005, 12:06 AM
you guys crack me up :p

yrdandgardenhandyman
08-31-2005, 12:11 AM
if i land him only 10 accounts, for the rest of the season, that would be around , let's see- 80 cuts @$30 each= $2400. leaf cleanup on same 10 properties about $250 each= $2500. that's $4,900 x .10- $490. this would be my percentage, then add my hourly rate for the consultation, i'm assuming 10 hrs of consulting at $75 per= $750 + $490= $1,240. FOR NOTHING! next year, it would probly add up to $10-$20,000 .


And your "client" goes out of business in 2 years cause you are sucking his profit dry. Good idea for you. Probably bad for your "client". Are you going to actually teach him how to make successful bids or are you just going to do them for the "client"? Are you going to teach your "client" the Bobby Gedd shovel method of customer diplomacy or are you going to do the shovel work yourself? Well, good luck to you and your "client". If you are as smart as you claim to be, maybe you shouldn't be asking a bunch of ignorant lawnboys on this site. You seem to be a legend in your own mind but you do make more money than I do so I guess, whatever.
Sounds like you could make more by using the time to build your own business but I hope you know what you are doing. Anyway, good luck and I mean that.

greywynd
08-31-2005, 12:19 AM
Just wondering, when you do the lesson on shovel selection and use, can you video tape it and put a clip on here? I mean, it should be something that you could do in exchange for all the valuable information that you have received from the site. How about it Bobby?

Ric
08-31-2005, 01:10 AM
your posts are silly. you confuse "being a professional business man", and making money. i know alot of "professional businessmen" , who don't make much money. and i know alot of not so "professional businessmen", who make alot of money. if your goal is/was to be a professional, then so be it. my goal, is to make alot of money. let's face the facts, lawnboys are not rocket scientists, even the smarter ones are still dumber than a tree stump. i don't have to outrun the bear...i only, have to outrun you


BooBy

I demanded a reply and you gave it. So I will reply back. Yes as the Small guy Unprofessional businessmen do take more money out of the business than professional Businessmen do. But the differences is made up in time. Give a period of time, The Professional Businessman will grow his business and Be further ahead than the profit taking unprofessional. The end results will show the different. I believe this all goes back to My previous statement about having a job or being in business.

The fly by night guy will see it your way. The True businessman will see it my way. :waving:

Soupy
08-31-2005, 04:16 AM
Ric, I agree with a lot of your post, but. Your definition of a business, or businessman seems a little off and harsh. I can't seem to find the post were you described a business/businessman (deleted, or browser problems). You mentioned a one man, or 1-2 employees isn't really a business. I disagree...

Have you ever heard of the mom and pop stores, etc. There are a lot of business, (small business) Many successful that are owned and operated by one man, husband wife team, or just 1-2 employees, and even family ventures. Take a trip back in time and look at what most people considered sophisticated businessmen. It was before my time, but I can imagine old feed stores, hardware stores etc being run by one man. These guys were considered sophisticated businessmen (maybe because they didn't were a gun on their hip :rolleyes: )

We only have one bicycle shop in my town and it is pretty good size and has been operated by the owner for 15 years. This guy has a large inventory and like you said probably chasing a pay check, but a businessman none the less. Small dry cleaners, barber shops, and auto repair shops are more example of small business that can be operated by owner. These guys deserve to be recognized as businessmen and business's. The mere fact a person takes the risk of creating a pay check on his own is enough to be considered a businessman.


I was a night manager at a million dollar restaurant that lost money from start to finish. Stayed open for 5 years and the owner lost a lot of money, but employed 20 (give or take) employees. I was the highest paid employee because I received a salary and also bar tended. The general manager made less because he wasn't pulling double duty and making good tips. I use to joke about how the restaurant was working for me. My point is, it takes more then an appearance to be a successful business, or businessman. You mentioned some good factors that help make a successful business, but it doesn't change the fact that the restaurant I worked at was a business regardless of success. They had accountants, lawyers, many employee's etc. But made less then Bobby and many other small LCO's.

There are many definition of a business (depending on the way you use it in a sentence. But no were in a dictionary will you find that you have to run or profit a certain way to be a business, or business man.

bobbygedd
08-31-2005, 05:47 AM
exactly. most "pro businessmen" are so concerned about things that they shouldn't be concerned about, that they turn thier could be dollars, right into pennies. in rics mind, one needs to make 5 million, to bank a quarter mill. a business like this, is more likely to fail, than a 2-3 man show, that only needs to generate 150k . if i lost half my clients right now, today, it would barely effect my bottom line. i'd get rid of the employees, and i wouldn't skip a beat. on the other hand, in a "professional business", such as the one that exsists in ric's mind, should a tragedy occur, he'd be the first one to sink like a rock in the river. bank repoing the trucks. can't pay the "shop" rent. etc, etc. in this business, i've seen more monkeys working for pennies, and building this "professional business", that end up grossing 1.5 million, and going under, or suffering from "burnout" and having to pack it in. don't try and make it something it's not. it's grasscutting, it's a penny service, your competition ranges from 10 year old kids, to 80 year old men, and women. a true "professional businessman" is wise enough to know this, and runs his show accordingly.

Ric
08-31-2005, 08:29 AM
Soupy

Yes, You are right about the Mom & Pop show. Somehow I am having trouble making my point or describing what I want to. But in my mind a Man with a Older Compact Truck, Chinese Mower and Mexican Helper is not presenting a professional business image. Somehow I see Stanford and Son. I am not saying an operation like this can not make money. But recieved value by the customer and Percieved value are one in the same to the customer. The very nature of the image presented to the customer creates a pecking order that says bottom of the food chain. The very Image of such an operation is going to create customer relation problems from the start. The customer will not treat unprofessional percieved companies the same as they would a Company with a real professional image. Add a touch of arrogances and you have a shovel swinging contest.

BooBy

Just because a Professional businessman has added expense of bookkeeping and payments on New equipment doesn't mean he isn't turning a high margin on gross sales. Newer top of the line Equipment has less Mechanical Failures and better production speed. It more than pays for itself. BTW the better Equipment unlike a Chinese mower can be Operated with ease, parts are also readily available. A Real Businessman has the insight to Know he doesn't get more than he pays for. He also knows a professional image will get professional respect from the customer. Projected image should be part of you Business Model and Marketing Plan.

AintNoFun
08-31-2005, 09:12 AM
let's face the facts, lawnboys are not rocket scientists, even the smarter ones are still dumber than a tree stump.



you said it yourself, so why does this guy need you?
and nothin for nothin but what does your business model have that many others don't. why not call a real green industry business consultant?

bobbygedd
08-31-2005, 03:41 PM
"professional image", let's talk about this phrase. first of all, everything is relative. ok, it's like this- if you see a doctor, in a 3 piece suit, driving a mercedes, THIS, is a professional image, RELATIVE to his profession. NOW, if you see a brain surgeon, jump out of a 1990 for f-150, wearing cut off shorts, and flip flops, you see this as an unprofessional image, simply because, he is a doctor. it's all relative. doctors are viewed on a certain level. LAWNBOYS, are viewed on a certain level, also. they are viewed as bottom feeders, and rightfully so, most of them are. now, to maintain a professional image, relative within its field, the lawnboy simply needs to- be somewhat well groomed (nostral hairs not growing past his upper lip), have most of his front teeth, have no booze on his breath, and have a muffler on his vehicle, speak in complete sentences, able to hold a conversation with the prospect, refrain from scratching his nuts in thier presence, and don't use foul language. MOST LAWNBOYS don't even have these minor qualifications. so, anything above this, IS A PROFESSIONAL IMAGE. by the way, this professional image crap is just that=crap. you are not getting any more per service than i am, because your equipment cost more, THAT, is the bottom line

yrdandgardenhandyman
08-31-2005, 05:01 PM
"professional image", let's talk about this phrase. first of all, everything is relative. ok, it's like this- if you see a doctor, in a 3 piece suit, driving a mercedes, THIS, is a professional image, RELATIVE to his profession. NOW, if you see a brain surgeon, jump out of a 1990 for f-150, wearing cut off shorts, and flip flops, you see this as an unprofessional image, simply because, he is a doctor. it's all relative. doctors are viewed on a certain level. LAWNBOYS, are viewed on a certain level, also. they are viewed as bottom feeders, and rightfully so, most of them are. now, to maintain a professional image, relative within its field, the lawnboy simply needs to- be somewhat well groomed (nostral hairs not growing past his upper lip), have most of his front teeth, have no booze on his breath, and have a muffler on his vehicle, speak in complete sentences, able to hold a conversation with the prospect, refrain from scratching his nuts in thier presence, and don't use foul language. MOST LAWNBOYS don't even have these minor qualifications. so, anything above this, IS A PROFESSIONAL IMAGE. by the way, this professional image crap is just that=crap. you are not getting any more per service than i am, because your equipment cost more, THAT, is the bottom line



LOL Bobby, you sure do have a way with words. Sometimes. :laugh:

Ric
08-31-2005, 06:43 PM
"professional image", let's talk about this phrase. first of all, everything is relative. ok, it's like this- if you see a doctor, in a 3 piece suit, driving a mercedes, THIS, is a professional image, RELATIVE to his profession. NOW, if you see a brain surgeon, jump out of a 1990 for f-150, wearing cut off shorts, and flip flops, you see this as an unprofessional image, simply because, he is a doctor. it's all relative. doctors are viewed on a certain level. LAWNBOYS, are viewed on a certain level, also. they are viewed as bottom feeders, and rightfully so, most of them are. now, to maintain a professional image, relative within its field, the lawnboy simply needs to- be somewhat well groomed (nostral hairs not growing past his upper lip), have most of his front teeth, have no booze on his breath, and have a muffler on his vehicle, speak in complete sentences, able to hold a conversation with the prospect, refrain from scratching his nuts in thier presence, and don't use foul language. MOST LAWNBOYS don't even have these minor qualifications. so, anything above this, IS A PROFESSIONAL IMAGE. by the way, this professional image crap is just that=crap. you are not getting any more per service than i am, because your equipment cost more, THAT, is the bottom line


Yes BooBy, You do have to work on those things.


.

Soupy
08-31-2005, 10:15 PM
Ric, I agree completely with you on the image part. Many people think I own a franchise and it does make a world of difference. For one, a customer doesn't think twice about having to sign a contract etc.

I just thought your first explanation was a put down to the majority of hard working members on this forum. In my eye's most members on here are true businessmen.

Bobby, You never did answer my question about how the meeting went?

bobbygedd
08-31-2005, 10:44 PM
Ric, I agree completely with you on the image part. Many people think I own a franchise and it does make a world of difference. For one, a customer doesn't think twice about having to sign a contract etc.

I just thought your first explanation was a put down to the majority of hard working members on this forum. In my eye's most members on here are true businessmen.

Bobby, You never did answer my question about how the meeting went?
soupy, i'm sorry, i disagree with you on the image thing. but, in the end, (which ric has already faced) you'll understand. my meeting went great. he is going for it, starting monday. my feeling though, is that he will fail.

Mower For Less
08-31-2005, 11:37 PM
my feeling though, is that he will fail.

If he fails, don't you fail vicariously?

Kevin

Soupy
08-31-2005, 11:49 PM
Bobby, I gave my company a face lift a couple years ago. I changed the name, added a useful website, hired some designers and started using uniforms, full color glossy advertisements, 3 copy colored proposal/agreements, letterhead, the works. Nothing much has changed except for the face lift, and I can definitely see an improvement as to how customers and others perceive my company. People will question a signature of any kind to a guy in plain clothes driving a plain work truck, but now they think it is normal procedure. I have had customers and competitors ask if I bought a franchise. That is exactly what my goal was. I wanted to gain respect and set myself apart from the 1,000's of other guys driving around cutting grass.

So take it from someone who has tried both ways, It definitely helps. Like you, I was doing just fine before the make over too, so I can see why you might think it won't help. But until you try it, you will just have to take my word on it :).

Ric
09-01-2005, 12:23 AM
Ric, I agree completely with you on the image part. Many people think I own a franchise and it does make a world of difference. For one, a customer doesn't think twice about having to sign a contract etc.

I just thought your first explanation was a put down to the majority of hard working members on this forum. In my eye's most members on here are true businessmen.

Bobby, You never did answer my question about how the meeting went?

Soupy

I didn't mean to put down anyone except BooBy. I know what I am trying to say, But don't know how to explain it. I myself am not that perfect Professional Businessman. Knowing what to do and doing are in fact two different things. As much as PITA it can be for most guys that work out to do paper work, It must be done. How well you do it, is the differences I am talking about. A job you go home and chill at the end of the day. A business is something that requires 24/7 attention.

Soupy
09-01-2005, 12:46 AM
Soupy

I didn't mean to put down anyone except BooBy. I know what I am trying to say, But don't know how to explain it. I myself am not that perfect Professional Businessman. Knowing what to do and doing are in fact two different things. As much as PITA it can be for most guys that work out to do paper work, It must be done. How well you do it, is the differences I am talking about. A job you go home and chill at the end of the day. A business is something that requires 24/7 attention.

Ric, it's cool.... I figured out what you was trying to get across on your last post. I know you didn't mean to put anyone down, I was just explaining to you why I originally commented on your post.

Hey.. off topic. Are you the guy in Florida that has dealt with the guy from Texas selling spray trucks? If so, you were a great help to me a while back after Mike (Lawngodfather) pointed me in your direction. We tossed a couple of email around and you offered your phone number for further discussion (although I regret not taking that opportunity to talk to you on the phone). I didn't end up getting a truck, but your time was appreciated.

bobbygedd
09-01-2005, 07:28 AM
a business that is OUT OF CONTROL requires attention 24/7. if you are giving that much attention , you are struggling.

Ric
09-01-2005, 08:55 AM
Ric, it's cool.... I figured out what you was trying to get across on your last post. I know you didn't mean to put anyone down, I was just explaining to you why I originally commented on your post.

Hey.. off topic. Are you the guy in Florida that has dealt with the guy from Texas selling spray trucks? If so, you were a great help to me a while back after Mike (Lawngodfather) pointed me in your direction. We tossed a couple of email around and you offered your phone number for further discussion (although I regret not taking that opportunity to talk to you on the phone). I didn't end up getting a truck, but your time was appreciated.

Soupy

It was Mike (LGF) who first turned me on to the guy in Texas after finding him on line. I took the chance and drove to Dallas with my buddy-mechanic. We have made several trips back to Dallas over the past few years. I would hate to lose my Cell phone, it holds the cell # of both Mikes Cell and the Dallas contact. He has more than just spray trucks. I am a happy camper.

BooBy

In private, We have talked about the value of time studies. Yes I agree that you take the time to try and work ON your Business even if you present an image of "Padre Stanford Y el Hijo" Maybe the point I am trying to make is the Difference of "Working ON your Business instead of IN your Business."

There is a guy in my town, who BooBy could be his twin brother in mind set. Alway the dreamer looking for ways to make money without working. Many of us had been taken in by his fasting talking deals and lack of production; my self included. We all talk about him and refer to him as Fat Boy. Since the hurricanes or before we all noticed he was not out hustling jobs any more. Two days ago I found out why. He invented a new twist on the old Termite sensing system like Senticon. Some of the Big Boy chem companies are offering to Buy his patent.

DUSTYCEDAR
09-01-2005, 09:10 AM
soupy has a point about the professional look on forms and such it does work
u do look so much better pulling up in a nice clean newer truck than a old beat heap thats all dented
but on the flip side of that is the pitty factor and i know a few guys that cash in on that they show up in small trucks and old dump trucks and look sad and people seem to make more work for these guys just to feel like they feed a stray dog. and most wont fire them out of pitty.