Ticked off at Customer

[Daren]

Well i learned a hard lesson about having a contract before starting a job. Bid on a job for and elderly lady. Agreed on moving a flower bed from against the house out to the fence, plow her garden spot, level of the back yard from where septic tank was replaced and haul off debri to the dump. Well as we started the lady's daughter called and said that we were suppose to place another row of timbers in between the fence and the bed, fine we agreed that we would do that and just charge for the extra timbers. We went ahead and replaced every timber from the other bed anyway at our expense. Then We told her we would plant some trees that she purchased at no extra cost. She purchased 20 gallon trees. We still didnt complain. Then we agreed to cut down a small tree at no extra charge. Then as we are hauling off the debri, she comes down and says her daughter said that all the trash on the other side of the house was to go also after we were told no 2 times before. Well I talked to the daughter and said we would do that also and just charge the dump bill. She said she wasnt paying another pennie and that was agrred on before. the daughter was 300 miles away the whole time. I said no problem, I would do that also, but I was going in the whole. Then as we are about to leave the lady comes down and ask us when we are going to move the other flower bed that she specifically told us not to move. I told her that she told us not to move it and she said no I never told you that. My partner was right there and she told him the same thing when we bid on it. Anyway, i have decided not to go back and told her to just pay me for my Materials and i would just take a loss. She said no she wouldnt. Well I only charged her $400.00 to begin with. We spent $135.00 on materials and paid another guy for 8 hours work $80.00. thats down to $185.00. Me and my partner spent 16 hours so far even in the pouring down rain. I just want my money for what I have completed. I leveled off the back yard really nice and plowed the garden. I dont know how to go about getting my money. Can I turned her into a collection agency? What would you guys do? Next time their will be a contract specifying all of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyway sorry so long!

Daren

[Green Finger]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO for the Bad Guys!

Daren,

Sounds like a classic case of piecing you apart. Some people are cons. If you don't get a contract they will piece you away. Can you do this, can you do this, can you do that. It starts with little things and all of it is free on your part. They target small companies to try and rip them off.

Before you do any work. Have them sign a contract and get a deposit.(20%-40%) No deposit, No work. By doing this, aleast you get your cost of materials back.

I don't care how nice they are or what they say. What kind of car that is in the drive way. SIGN CONTRACT AND DEPOSIT. I got burned real bad, like that.

Protect yourself, remember you are a businessman.

[Charles]

Lessons learned hear when dealing with anyone especially the elderly get things in writing and stick with it. With an oral agreement like you had stick with exactly what you verbally agreed to. What you had is job creep. This is why I charge by the hour on odds and ends jobs like this. I say hey "I will do this extra work but you are paying me by the hour remember and we are up to this much money already. Each time they ask me to do extra stuff I say the same thing. Do not change the original agreement and agree to do extra things for free because then you are breaking the original oral or written agreement and the customer will then continue to break it.
NOw about getting your money back. Without a written agreement its your word against hers and in a court of law an elderly woman will probably win. File a lien against her property and waite for her to die or sell the house is you best bet.
You had just gotten yourself in deeper by doing the extra stuff for free. Some of the time it doesnt pay to be a nice guy. This is a business charge for your time and if they balk on one thing leave. Stand over her and say " I want my money now!!! LOL

[geogunn]

this is a bitter lesson when learned the hard way.

I don't always write a contract for small jobs but I ALWAYS...ALWAYS write the job up in a spiral notebook stating all of the particulars and even including a drawing of the work to be done.

I always ask the customer to review and sign the book under my signature. then when changes are made I simply pull out the book, review the info and explain that any changes will be extra.

it works for me on really small jobs like cleanups.

also, there are certain kinds of people that make a practice of trying to beat you out of your money and this helps keep them honest.

GEO

[Chopper Lover]

Sorry you got screwed and not kissed. I have some thoughts on the matter. Some realistic, some extreme, all of them worth thought...

Since it appears the daughter is in control maybe you can give her a call. It may be well worth the cost of the phone call.

Or, another option. Since you have already wasted a couple days, what is one more? Have you considered putting everything you can back where you found it? I am thinking you can call the old lady back and tell her you want to correct what is wrong. Of course you won't go into detail about what the definition of wrong is. When she aggrees, you take the trees back out of the ground, move the flower bed back to the house, tamp down the garden you tilled, etc. When all that is done you can leave the job site knowing she still got what she paid for.

Just a thought with a touch of bitterness.
Mark

[Greenkeepers]

Always use a contract, but you had a verbal contract with her. Send an invoice for the full amount due and put a lean on the property. The old lady may not die for a while but you will get your money when she does or they sell the house. Write up the price some too to cover your costs..

[Fantasy Lawns]

been there with the little old lady & daughter/son deal ....sometimes we just get sucked into these things ...we like to have this right next to total of job =>Total Price of Work: includes material & labor (not to include changes in design or constitutions) $ xxx.00

hard to get $$ for something not in written (even thou a verbal agreement is a consideration of contract) unless alot of $$ involved .....might be more pain than worth

[kutnkru]

At this point it comes down to a verbal contract agreement. In certain cases these hold weight and in others they do not. This is something that you should figure up your hours for what you have done to date.

How much would you have charged her for this job even at a reduced rate -NOT FREE but at a reduced rate??

Then you need to wiegh how much it will cost you to try to retrieve your funds thru your attorney. And make your decision.

As a friendly piece of advice, you should stop giving away your labor. I understand the generosity and have replaced timbers and such. I just dont mark-up the materials, and they pay us for our labor, or the job doesnt get done.

You are a service provider. They wont get freebies from the mechanic, the plumber, the carpenter, so why do they always think its should be that way for us??

Just my .02
Kris

[joshua]

sue the old lady, also go to a collection agency, take her to court.

[RNH]

Know what you mean I gave a verbal bid to the pastor of greek church. I trimmed all the bushes, edged all the flower beds, and started mulching, The pastor came out and said there are leaves blowing back into the flower beds, I refuse to pay you for your service, and then began to walk away before I had a chance to reply. I tried to tell him about his neighbors property, the one with 20 oak trees on it and that unless his nieghbor cleans up his property that the leaves would probably blow back into his flower bed again. The pastor rudly said, if they blow back into my flower beds I won't pay you for your service. Well being nice guy that I am. I unloaded all the debris that we had collected from HIS property into HIS parking lot right infront of the entrance to his church, and then collected all the mulch that we had spread and hauled it away as well. He to this day can't find anyone to mow or landscape for him. The word on him was passed around to fellow landscapers. I know my way was harsh, but after you have been taken once before. Those leasons were learn the hard way.

Sorry So windy but.

Go with the Lien, someone in her family will pay sooner or later when she tries to sell...


Ron Helsel
RNH Property Service.

[Chopper Lover]

And he is a man of the cloth, too...

[RNH]

Tell me about it, I to this day won't mow or landscape for any church. I do my praying at home, on my mower or anywhere but church. No dis-respect to those of you who might chose to worship in church, but I have choose not to..

Ron Helsel
RNH Property Service...

[kutnkru]

Can we say Anger Managenment??? :)

Unfortunately, from time to time we have to cross those bridges that are less than desireable. I would have dumped it back into his beds, and let them spread it out.

I don not think it was best to block the drive. We open ourselves up for legal problems with the city or town by blocking the flow of traffic.

Just my .02
Kris

[RNH]

Hey there Kutnkru, maybe I didn't explain good enough, when I dumpped his debris back into his lot no drive entrances or exits where blocked, his debris ended up in a parking space in front of the entrance to the church. and no I didn't dump it in a handicapped parking space. It's been eight years since than, and it was easier to dump it there than to walk the entire palce to put it back into the beds.

Thanks for the reply...

Ron Helsel
RNH Property Service

[mowerman90]

RNH

I learned many years ago to not do any work for: Doctors, lawyers, or clergy, not nesesarilly in that order. Any one I've ever know that has, sooner or later, gets shafted.

[HOMER]

Gee, now I feel better about my little dillema! That reminds me of a real estate agent I dealt with one time, thats why I dont deal with them any more.

Good Luck.

I would for sure write a professional, detailed letter explaining everything that was done, how much out of pocket expense you had, the number of hours you invested, the dates, times, conversations, and anything else you can think of. Send it certified mail....................did you take any before and after pictures??????????

Start laying the groundwork while its fresh in your memory.

Good Luck again!

[Evan528]

lawyers....uggghhh!!!!!! They try to use there court tactics to twist every deatail of the agreement around! I actually had one last year insist that her husband never asked me to trim the hedges and that she refused to pay!

[tazman]

Why is it the people with the money don't give up the money?
I agree, I think you are getting screwed, but, next time get everything in writing. Take her to small claims court for your time and material. Go to her house and take pictures of everything you did and write down in chronological order the whole process while it is fresh in your mind. I think you would win if presented right. OR just chalk this up to an expensive mistake. Whatever you do, good luck.

[awm]

Well you can take it as a lesson ormabe get a little uncivilised.These type do this all the time.They dont
like it when you start being as big a horses ---
as they are,but they do understand it better sometimes.

[LScom Addict]

These professionals are soo damn wealthy because to get them to part from their money is like pulling teeth. I think they are so vain they would sell or trade the first born rather than give up them teeth LOL

[lawrence stone]

I have never had any problems with collection.

I use a contract even for the smallest job and get 50% up front for any one time deals.

It also helps when your 6'2" and weight 270 lbs.

[AVRECON]

Here's what I would do. You see I also do tree removal so I don't usually have a problem getting paid, You don't want to piss off a man with a chain saw. From your story it sounds like you have one. Go back over there and demand your money, when she says no, Ask her "do you see that tree right there" its getting ready to be on top of your house unless I hve a check in my hand in about one minute. LOL! no getting paid problems.

[Flip]

I offer clients 2 ways to pay for my services. 1. I collect at time of service or 2. Offer monthly billing. If they don't pay after (billing) and extending credit for 90 days, I send them a certified letter for immediate payment. If they ignore this, I go directly to the Small Claims Court in my county and file a claim. The sheriff delivers the summons and the client(defendant) has 30 days before the court date. I usually get paid by the client before the court date. Why do they pay? They have to take time off from work to go to court, they're wages can be garnished by their employer(who wants their employer to know their a "jackleg"!) and they're credit rating can be effected.
To prove your case get copies of checks, telephone calls/bills, witnesses, service receipts or anything connected to the transaction. I have not had to use a specific contract for one timers but, it does help to have the client sign something.
The court system is there for everyone to use and you don't need an attorney for Small Claims.

[yardsmith]

Dittos with chopper lover-
If you're not getting paid for the tree planting or bed moving (or what ever specific items), pull them babies out & leave it as you found it. Tell them if they're not paying for that service, then that service wasn't provided. Best to do it when tey're gone to the hairdressers or someplace out. Then if they ask you ??? tell them 'I have no idea what you're talking about.'
Also, a nice yard job with an unmarked car or truck usually does wonders- use with caution......... :)
Anyways, I'd take her to small claims, or take all the items you provided BACK out of her property. How can she claim ownership if she never paid for them?
Good luck, & use a contract next time with 1/2 down up front.

[Skookum]

I agree with the posts about getting a lein on the property or going to small claims court. Both are good civil options.

The lein is better chance of getting all money, but it may take years. If they do not pay as soon as they get the lein it will never come into effect until they try to sell and the title search will not clear, thus stopping the sale until the lein is removed. Usually a lein is for serious money like in the thousands, but, small amounts work as well.

In your case, I think I would use the small claims court avenue. My limited experience with the small claims court collection method is, that like stated above, they usually send a check as soon as they get the summons. And do use the sheriff delivery option over the certified mailing, it adds impact to the delivery.

This may only apply to my state, but I was told that small claims court could not get yor money. Basically, it is just a step where the courts rules that they do owe you a decided amount. The small claims court judge cannot make them pay or garnishee their wages. Most usually do, because they are not aware of this lack of enforcement issue.

Good luck!

[Rex Mann]

We have had to put leins on peoples homes. Boy they are not to happy when they find out. They act like we did it to spite them. What egos!

If you go the lein route some advice:

First call and ask for your money(also keep a detailed log of everything you do to collect IE: time and date monies spent and the like)

A week later send her a letter(nice letter to the point and brief) asking for your money. In this letter give a specific day the payment is to be recieved by-we give 2 weeks from letter sent date

Next send a registed letter saying this is the third attempt and 2 letter. If not paid by a certain date further action will be taken. DO NOT SAY WHAT THE FURTHER ACTION WILL BE) Most people will assume you are bluffing or sending them to collection. An old woman and her 300 miles away daughter could care less about collections.

Then go to the local courthouse and file a lein. When they get it they usually pay you pretty fast. They will realize you are playing "hardball" with them. Do not forget to add the price of placing the lein onto the money they owe you and any other expenses like parking, forms and the like.

Next time, save the headache and take the time to make a contract.

Rex