What Would You Do In My Situation?

[DBM]

What would you do in my situation? I've got a bit of a problem here. It's my first year and intend to go part-time unless business allows me to go full-time. The problem is my budget is tight and only allows me to purchase a 36" walk-behind (this allows me to cut the smaller gated properties). The problem is it isn't cutting season here yet and I've already bid on a couple of residential properties I can't possibly quote competitively due to size.
Should I screen them out over the phone, recommend them to a reputable competitor, sub it out, sell my wife's car to buy larger equipment or what? (hope the wife doesn't see the selling the car idea).
Case and point I had to bid $100 a cut for an acre with alot of difficulty and trimming (I figured 3 hours work minimum). Even this is less per hour than what my goal is.
Senior Members, what would you do?
Doug

[lawnboy82]

keep the big ones. if you only get big ones then sign them to contracts and maybe go and finance a larger machine. or if that is your only big one that you get then maybe keep the 36 and just go and spend the three hours at the big places or however long it takes you, save up and get a machine that suites your needs.

[kutnkru]

I would be honest with potential clients and let them know that due to the size of your operation currently you will be subbing out the larger acerage lots to another contractor.

I would let them know that due to the unanticpated surge in business, that you have be hired XYZ Lawn & Landscape to handle these accounts in an effort to keep your clientele happy.

If you cannot sub out the work then just refer them to potential LCOs you feel will suit their needs. Let the customers know that you appreciate the offer, but are unfortunately not equipped to handle properties of their size at this point in time.

Many potential customers will appreciate the honesty and still pass your name along to friends and family when asked for a reference to a contractor. They will also be more likely to check back with you in the event they discontinue service with your referral or even next season to see if you can handle the accounts at that time.

Good Luck this season!
Kris

[1MajorTom]

The only one that can truly answer your question would be you and your wife. Somehow I don't see her voting to sell her car :)
You say your budget is tight, but is there any way you could finance a larger piece of equipment? If you can without maxing your credit out, that would be the way to go.

If there is absoluetly no way for you at this time to get the larger size, then decide if those larger properties that you looked at, are ones that you would want for the long haul. If they aren't, then just recommend them to someone else.
But if you would want those clients for a long time, then bid them as competitively as you can; if you get the bid, grunt it out until you get the larger equipment. If you're serious about getting into this biz, it shouldn't take you too long to acquire enough accounts to make the money and upgrade your equipment.

Good luck.

[Acute Cut]

*SIGH*
Oh yeah, sell everything you and your wife have to get a mower. Come on now. So many people only look forward and get bigger, fastr, and so forth. I am the guy that always tries to set back-ups because i want to be prepared for the worst. I did my first two years with 21" mowers. It is not unthinkable to do this. TALK to your wife. Your 'wants' and her budget may not be realistic. Get a sulkey of some kind and save yourself some tiredness because you are only doing this part time. Because you are part time (And this includes some of us full timers too) you dont have to have the biggest fastest thing out there. More productive equip is nice, but not essential to get started. We can all tell you to get the 72" Lazer and you would be a happy man because you could show your wife the threaad and try and convince her.

The biggest mansion must be built from the foundation UP!
Good luck on your descion

[Eric ELM]

I bought a new 38" mower JD Lawn Tractor when I started way back when. I then went and started getting customers. I should have done it the other way, got the customers first I guess since I got more work than I could do with that little 38". The next year I got a 50" and still had to much work. This business is hard to plan. I guess it is better to have a small mower and too much work than a big mower and not enough. Good luck in what ever you do.

[DBM]

I was joking about selling the car, I like being married.
I didn't even think about the referral business, thanks for that info. I believe in being honest and upfront and that's always been my way in doing business and life. Another question, it's pretty quiet right now, should I screen these people over the phone or make the effort to visit them in person and make the bid anyways? You never know right?

Doug

[HOMER]

I heard that on public t.v. one day. If all you have is a 36 target smaller properties.............heck, ask the other LCOs in your area to send the gated properties to you if they dont want to bother with them. Find a niche and stick to it, you may find you can make really good money concentrating on all the small stuff, develop a system, have everything organized and hit it running!

[HOMER]

There is no better teacher than experience. In other words get out there and go to work. You will find out soon enough if your doing it right or getting the shaft. This type work is best learned on the job. I started with real estate companies................I dont do real estate companies anymore cause I learned real quick what they wanted.............see what I mean. Get out there so people can see your work. Your going to make mistakes and cut your throat, thats part of it.

[LScom Addict]

If you dont have the start-up collateral and expense funds I would stay where you are in your current position and save the extra money needed to go full time next season.

[tazman]

I would go with your orginal plan and mow with the 36" until you can afford something bigger if you need it. Don't turn down the bids unless you know for sure you can't do them. When I started out 3 years ago, I bid on a 7 acre park with 5 acres of mowing. I got it. I didn't even have a mower bigger than a 21" at that time. I went and scrounged a new JD 36" WB and used it for a couple of months to mow the park. It took me 6-7 hours because of the terrain. I got positive comments on the great mow job. I then when out and bought a rider. What I am suggesting is get the business first, then get the equipment. I today, still have that account, at a higher price, and my business this year will gross over $150K. You got start somewhere and the bottom is always the best, because the only way you can go, is up. Good luck in whatever you decide.

[MOW ED]

I started out with about 4000 and cobbled together enough stuff to get started and soon found that I pitifully underestimated what type of equipment I needed. After year 2 I had to go commercial. I don't know the tax laws in Canada but in the states we can write off a percentage of loans and depreciate the equipment over time. An 8000 ZTR might only cost you 5000 over the grand scheme. I'd suggest talking to a good accountant to see how to creatively finance a bigger mower. I didn't think I could do it years ago and now I wonder why I didn't do it from the start.

On your other question about screening clients. Its got to be as cold if not colder where you are with some frozen water on the ground. I would get out and meet these people personally. Its a great opportunity to sell yourself and even if you don't get the job now, the person will remember how professional you were and may call you in the future. Of course you have to have your stuff together before you get there. Good Luck.

[1st impressions]

DBM

If you can afford a 36" mower, I think you can afford a 48".
Here in Illinois a new 48" walkbehind is only $100-150 more.
A small price to pay for the increase in productivity.

When I started I was in the same boat as you and most people
told me to go with the 36". I went with my gut and got the 48" first. Best decision I ever made.

I say bid the bigger properties without gates and you will gross more. Stash some cash and next year get a 36" so you
can bid on all types of properties.

Where I live there are by far more open yards than gated yards.

P.S. A two wheel sulky would help out with fatigue, especially if you keep the second job.

Good luck man! hope you realize your dreams.

[awm]

If you would go full time when you can.
If you have credit.
If you intend to advertise for increased buisiness.
Then I would advise to start looking for a good
mower that can put out the work.Good used might be
good.Take care of it so if things dont pan you can
clean it up mabe paint it, and sell it.
LUCK TO YA

[geogunn]

DBM--buy used but well maintained equipment and buy what you need. a 48 or 52 is more versatile than a 36 because you can mow more faster. forget the gated properties if you have to.

the idea of you aquiring larger accounts and subbing them out is a disaster in the making. huge mistake if you do that.

commit yourself to the work you can handle and get to it.

good luck.

GEO

[lawnworker]

Ditto on the 48 unless your city is just full of only gated small properties. I run a48 and 36 the 36 gets used on 20% of the lawns.But everybodys situation is differant.The 48 is 25% faster then the 36

[eggy]

Well I would really look at if you are going into buisness or? First write a buisness plan outline the path your buisnees will take over time, second talk to a bank about your start up buisness, many will loan you money at a very good rate because you will be buying equipment. I am not going to be negitive but be sure you have all the right insurance to. Good luck

[GrassMaster]

Hello:

I've never cut Commercially with a mid walk behind, so this advise is not even close to .02 cents from me, Butt!

From all I have read here on this Great Forum the 36 inch would come in very handy on the smaller jobs & trimming? Like some of the others have said get a Sulky & save yo self a lot of walking.

Are you sure it will take 3 hours on those properties? Remember this, look at the travel time you save at this one job, compaired to doing 3 or so other jobs (less customers & less trips & less people to deal with) & very soon this year or next you will get a bigger mower. Do not ever overload yo arse, if you do not have too! Being Debt Free is a major plus in this business!

Then you already have a little larger accounts in place, later on in time!

If the 36 is all you can get, well let that be good enough. I would not recomend going in debt to get just a little bigger mower or doing without at this time. You never know the future, 4 months from now you might have the extra money to get the mower you want with out any sacrifices on you or yo families part. Nothng no more disgusting than hearing someone say, I Told You So!

BTW, who cares what we think, it is yo life & no matter what I or anyone else says, you will do the right thing! :-)

LOL, there is also nothing no more disgusting than thinking to your self, I Wish I Had Done So & So!

You got to start somewhere & we all did too! In order to live you have to suffer & all it does is give you wisdom & nobody can take that away from you!:-)

Look like a Pro, Act like a Pro, Work like a Pro, then you will get Treated & Paid like a Pro.

BTW: BTW: If you sell the wifes car, the odds increase 1,000% min that you will hear the Dreaded I Told You So or when you are out there cutting in La La land & your mind starts to thinking , I Wish I Had Done So & So! That's a Fact Jack!

La La Land: Is that most Wonderful part about this Business that none of us ever Discuss to anyone, it is our Secret, it's while we are working outside in the Beautiful Wild Blue Yonder, being our own Boss & we have all that free time to do Brain Work & you Start Drifting mentally thinking about the Past, Present & Future!

Then we have to stop & blow everything off, leaving that Beautiful place behind & go to another lawn Crying out, Please come make me Look Beautiful Too & I will have my Master Pay you well for your Efforts!

Lawn Service Business, is the most Rewarding Business I have ever Seen! I miss it dearly! :-)

[Michael Fronczak]

I wouldn't turn away the work. When I started out- using 21", I never did. Save your money my first commercial walkbehind was $ 1400, used by a homeowner for 2 years to cut his own lawn (1-1.5 acres), I ran that machine for 3 years, sold it to a friend last year he is still using it, cutting a few lawns after work for extra cash. What I am getting at is a lawn that your getting $ 100/per cut, pays for a larger machine quickly. For the first year or two don't plan on taking the money out, if your part time, buy the equipment you need until you can get established.
I was getting nervous I bid significaly more & larger properties than we can do, or mow in a day with current equipment. I just went to the dealer's last week, the had a sale $ 500 off on new 60" ZTR, I filled out the papers, had them run it through- no payment/intrest till August, when I told them I was intrested I made sure they understood I would purchase the machine if needed. All I have to do now is wait for the signed contracts to come back, if they don't it cost me nothing.
It takes time but the relationships you build with lenders will make or break you, the sooner you realize this the better off you are, best advise don't overextend yourself.

[Roger]

My experiences ....

I became unemployed six years ago. Not being able to find work, I started mowing five years ago with my 21" Snapper I had in the barn, Weedeater trimmer - that's all. The next season, I bought an Exmark 36" hydro, Shin trimmer and a used Shin blower. Two years later, the old Snapper was parked in favor of a 21" LB commercial SP. Two years ago, I bought an 8HP wheeled blower for quicker/easier leaf work. The used Shin blower went belly-up, so I bought a Sthil blower. Later a Stihl hedge trimmer. Summary: I kept adding to reduce time, do a better, more complete job. I work by myself, and don't intend to have employees. Last season I mowed 920 jobs.

Now I see another problem. I've picked up some nice jobs (do no advertising - only get new jobs by referral or by passers-by), some of which are getting larger. My 36" (w/Velke) is running as much as 2 1/2 hours on some jobs. On some of the real nice turf, I will not use the Velke, because I don't like the middle line. So what to do?

I'm considering the next step, a stand-on machine. I can't see the extra money for a ZTR rider. I see a 52" upgrade as the next step. I also need a new trailer; my 5X10 too small for a 52" machine. I've looked closely at the Wright Stander and Great Dane Super Surfer, thinking I can cut my mowing times considerably. The cost justification probably isn't there, at least near term. Or, do I just "grind it out" with my 36" machine? I believe I have about 3,000 hours on my Exmark (no hour meter, just estimates), and these larger jobs keep rolling up the hours. The machine can't have many more years, and a second machine would extend the life of my Exmark.

Another part of the equation. I'm about 60 years old, and am not sure how many years the body will take the abuse. ...maybe just ride it out with my 36" until either the machine, or I, fall over.

Anybody with similar pattern and some insight ....?

Roger

[eslawns]

I started with a 21 push mower and a curved shaft McCullough trimmer. Blower? That was my wife's broom. I hated my job and was willing to do anything to get away from it. If you can tough it out, stay at your regular job until you have the equipment you need to support the work it will take for you to live on. Use the money you earn part time to pay for the equipment. I cut 50 properties per week with a 36" and a sulky for 3 years. You could also cut the gated back yards with a 21" You'll cut 20% off the mow time from 36" to 48" (not 25% like the salesmen tell you because of the overlap) but don't be afraid that a 36" won't get the work done. It will. You have to decide if you can get the things you need with the money you have.
It's not as easy as some people think, but it can be done.

[Edited by eslawns on 03-14-2001 at 02:51 PM]

[beck]

I have two used 36s that I have acquired at good prices. an exmark metro belt-drive from a homeowner probably around 5-6 years old for $1000. a 10-12 year old toro for $475 but has required $350 in repairs. If i sold them today i would still get my money out of them.
I have four 1 acre lots. it takes me about an hour to do one with the 36 and a velke(that is cut trim and blow) but at this point it would not be worth it to spend the money on the 60" rider. If i picked up another 6 yards that size i would do it but at this time i can live with using my equipment that is paid for and taking the extra time.

Check the classifieds find a good used one, build up your clientele then determine your needs for a bigger mower(48 walk-behind, 60 inch rider, etc.)

[kutnkru]

Originally posted by GrassMaster
... La La Land: Is that most Wonderful part about this Business that none of us ever Discuss to anyone, it is our Secret, it's while we are working outside in the Beautiful Wild Blue Yonder, being our own Boss & we have all that free time to do Brain Work & you Start Drifting mentally thinking about the Past, Present & Future!

Im so glad that you have brought this up. I thought that I was just flashing back from my college days. PHEW!!! :) I cannot tell you what a relief this is to know that its not just me!! ;)

I have to agree that there is no greater reward than working in a cubical at the office with walls spread out as far as the eyes can see.

Where else can you see so much beauty every day and say Im a part of that?? I dont know about anyone else, but I dont think there is a greater office environment than Mother Nature herself.

I know that when my girls go with me sometimes in the evening to do residential estimates, that to watch them experience mother narture and all her beauty is priceless. To see the girls freeze as they watch a deer jut into the woods after seeing them in the yard.

To have them experience the "slimey - grimey - icky - yucky - eewwww's" (I think that sums their phrases up -LOL) world of bugs is a terrific learning tool.

Just my thoughts on the rewards of this Industry. One mans clippings is another mans treasure - or something like that.
Kris

[lawrence stone]

Originally posted by Eric ELM
I bought a new 38" mower JD Lawn Tractor when I started way back when.


Geez Eric even back in the day you had better equipment than
I did.

I had a 32" Toro rear engine riding mower 12hp briggs I/C that died when ther rod broke in half with a 21" MTD
self prop. major POS.

I had a mini P/u with a 7ft bed. My trailer was one of those
light metal kit jobs w/ 8" tires. The trailer had 2ft plywood sides and a homemade wooden gate.

I had this one account (I had more than one) that was two
acres he wanted bagged that was fertilized by big green.
What I did was back the mower in the trailer and open the clam shell bagger. When the trailer got filled up I would drive a few miles to dump the clippings (by hand with a rake)
on a farm he had. All for just $125 per mow but you have to remember that was in 1986 dollars.

Ah the good old days. Thank god they are gone.

[awm]

Ill bet you are still going at 80 if you want to.
That walking gonna make you live forever man.
I loved the condition that walking a walk behind
will just naturally bring on.

[Mowman]

36" WB is a good start-up unit. Three years ago when I started I bought a 21" Toro Pro-Line Commercial WB. I used it for 2 seasons, last June I bought a Walker MT-54, to expand my business into larger jobs. I use it on every lawn I do, big or small. If money is tight I would get a WB w/ 36-48" with a floating deck. I would suggest either a Exmark or Toro Pro-Line.
Mowman