View Full Version : question for pro aplicators only

09-05-2005, 08:41 PM
i met a guy, who has worked on a golf course for many years. this is what he said to me:" i have never done residential work, but if i did, my lawns would be done like this- seeding with 70% blue grass, 30% rye. fert programs would be- 4 aplications throughout season of 0-0-15. the potasium is all he wants. then, in the fall, sept, oct, november each recieve an aplication of 25-10-10 with 2% iron. one pre emergent in the spring, liquid containing no fert. insect and weed treatments strictly on an "as needed" basis." does anyone agree with this program?

09-05-2005, 10:42 PM
No. There is no universal program for every part of the country. I don't like the sounds of it at all for my area thats for sure. What do some of you other guys think?

09-06-2005, 06:33 AM
Yes, their is no universal program for all cool season turf!

Assuming cool season turf

generally on the right track in theory, but NEED to know more information!!!!!

Seed would vary from area, use of turf, clients expections & budget, a growing conditions!
Timing of applications depends on your zone, source of n, and % slow release!
GENERALLY, 2/3 to 100% of n should be applied in fall for cool season turf!!!!
Weed, insect, and fungus control only done as needed

When is the 0-0-15 application?
scource of k in 0-0-15?
how many lbs/m of 0-0-15

For the 25-10-10 applications:

% slow release of n?
source of slow release n?
is k source mop or sop?
How many lbs/m per apllication

Generally, from information given, I believe a better program the most lawn care companies do! But I hold judgement until my questions are answered!

09-06-2005, 08:48 AM
I live in Southern California...we have no "cool" season. Our winter is about a month and a half long. Just enough time for the annual rye to come up and die off.

09-06-2005, 11:13 AM
That program would be a disaster in most of the mountain west states where soil is already high in K, very little rainfall during the growing season to bring additional N and wild temperature swings. PH in most areas also ties available fe in the soils, making in effect, a 3 month period to make up for 5 months of stress...nice!

Drew Gemma
09-06-2005, 02:19 PM
cool season yes I would add a red or creeping fescue to that mix just to help give a fuller look plus get the benefits of fescues in a lawn. As far as the lack of nitrogen we don't need it really until july then it's to dry and hot. Nitro just adds problems really it is almost equal good versus bad. Insect and disease control only as needed is a must. Don't put it down if you don't need it.

09-06-2005, 02:24 PM
Isn't fescue the first to bite the dust when a drought is present? That is what my lawn seems to do.

09-06-2005, 05:40 PM
Fine fescue are very drought tolerant, and turf type tall fescue, once establish, will handle drought well.

Most people over irrigate cool season turf, they get too hung up on color!!!!!

I was a gc superintendent at a course in central ill, they had overseeded the fairways FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS WITH A NK BLUE RYE mixture (70/30 blue/rye?), any way, one year in several places the slit seeder drop to the ground while operator was traveling between fairways, seed got establish (mostly the rye) these strips where almost as green as the irrigated fairways! You see, perrenial ryegrass will do quite well without irrigation, in fact irrigating it will lead to problems like pythium and gray leaf spot!

09-06-2005, 06:43 PM

The fine and red fescues were the first to go dormant in my area this year.

09-06-2005, 07:59 PM

The fine and red fescues were the first to go dormant in my area this year.

But did they DIE?

09-06-2005, 08:51 PM
But did they DIE?

No, they didn't....So you're saying that even though the fescues go dormant early, they handle stress better than other grass types?

I read 4x4's post again, and does "crap out" mean die or go dormant?

Drew Gemma
09-06-2005, 09:32 PM
exactly to much nitro and water just lead to too many problems in the cool season grasses. I use creeping red fescue. Turf type fescue is usually the last to wake and first frost takes it out. Fine fescue is really good especially in the shade. You want Fescues because they have endyphytes not sure hoe to spell it. Those help ward off certain disease and insects.

William J. L.
09-06-2005, 09:54 PM
We like tall fescue for a nice stand of grass. Creeping red fine fescue barely roots into the ground and is the first to go dormant.
But then again...we're from all over the country...what ever works for you guys.

09-07-2005, 07:36 AM
Being in zone 7, a transition zone, with my location at the upper end of warm season turf ( common bermunda, with zoysia growing a little farther north), with almost all turfgrass establishment being cool season turf

This mix does very well;
~60% turf type tall fescue
~15% fine fescue
~13% p. ryegrass
~12% k bluegrass
I known this isn't the exact %, but pretty close! All seeds are choosen using the nation turfgrass evaluation plots, selecting seeds varieties that do well the last 5 years! The bluegrass varieties, must have appeared the va/maryland recommedation list for sunny,shade, and LOW maintence area's!
All varieties have been on va/maryland list in the last 5 years!
Can be seeded at 5-7 lbs/m, very cost effective!
All seed is blue tag certified!

A blend of different turfgrass are much better in almost all occasion, only real exception is in special micro climates and some sports turf situations!

09-11-2005, 12:54 AM

what do you think of the program Bobbygedd?

Chris Wagner
09-11-2005, 03:35 AM
Actually, I don't disagree with the formula mentioned.

I've been managing the same grounds for coming on 8 years now. On some places where the turf is thick, I'd even skip out on the pre-m in the spring and just spot treat problem areas later. The thick turf should hold back weeds, crabgrass, etc.

I'd feed just after all the turf perks up in the spring (say mid april to early may), another feed in early part of June, then a final feed in the fall time.

I like the 70-30 combo of bluegrass / rye. I'd also look at the 80-20 split and go heavier on the bluegrass. Trick is, I'd make sure there were several species of bluegrass.

I'm not a tree hugger by any means, but my turf seems to do better with less herbicides.

09-11-2005, 06:57 AM

what do you think of the program Bobbygedd?
i'm no expert, i can only conclude that, the golf course guy has his heart set on so much pottasium, because the constant mowing at 1/4" at the golf course leaves the grass with minimal resistance. i've used a similar program on a few tough to maintain lawns (tough to maintain= minimal client cooperation with regular watering, etc) , with great success.

09-17-2005, 10:07 AM
This post sounds and reads like Diet Industry. Lots of theory.

I've been working the turf industry for 35+ years. There is no one plan fits all.

The golf course guy's plan is basic and close to sound. However every lawn, lawn customer and growing zone is different.

I want him to deal wth all the above factors as well as no automatic irrigation system.

I think he would squirm alittle.