PDA

View Full Version : Poor Quikpro results


ajmctree
09-07-2005, 09:27 PM
I got my pesticide license last year as a safe and legal way of applying fertilizer for our residential customers. This year we have had a oppurtunity to spray herbicdes on large concrete companies grounds. They basically wanted all the greenery gone from where there opperation is and where they store there concrete product.
The majority of it is all spot spraying with a few small areas where there is a continued ground cover. I used a solo 4 gallon diaphram back pack sprayer .
I tried and feel i did follow the manufacures directions on the Roundup Quickpro container but i'm seeing less than satisfying results .I mixed it as recommended and applied it as recommended.
Also posted quite some time ago a post trying to gather info on this.
The owner of the buisness stated he was somewhat disapointed with the results .You can obviously see where there has browning of the plants and grass, but do you ever notice the new growth coming up .
Has anyone else had problems with less than expected results with this .
Like i said i read the the instructions as i do every time i use a chemical of any nature, But i don't see where i've gone wrong .
As per pounds per acre i don't feel it would apply to this , i did make it at 1.5 oz per gallon and on one tank i made it at 2oz per gallon to see if there was any difference. There was none all that noticable.

Thanks

PetalsandPines
09-07-2005, 10:20 PM
I have had the exact same problems recently. Handled grasses no problem, but larger weeds showed some browning but re-emergence of growth. I too, am very dissapointed with the results. Not to mention it takes forever to get die back. Just bought the larger "granular" gallon size container. Mixed at 1.5 ++. Same way. Poor results, especially at the price I paid!!! :realmad:

Killswitch
09-07-2005, 10:38 PM
Use a combination of Scythe, some weed control, and a little glyphosate(roundup) or not, but use the scythe and weed control for all weed and grass control especially on the commercial sites.

Roundup stinks anymore in my opinion and Ive seen the same results you speak of, and others have too.

ajmctree
09-08-2005, 12:24 AM
Killswitch ,
when you say use weed control what are you meaning (2,4D) ? I've heard of using scyth before but where do you get it .I've looked in my area for bigger and better products but there is absolutly nobody to get it from .I would have to drive about 600 km to get to a city where i might find any product worth using. Like the QuikPro ,i bought that off ebay .

GreenUtah
09-08-2005, 12:35 PM
there are dozens, if not hundreds of places to buy scythe online, but it won't make a damned bit of difference if you do not know what and when to apply and what kind of results to expect.
#1 Roundup is NOT a sterilant. More junk will come up after you spray, period.
#2 you are not going to be knocking out 6 foot tall weeds with R-up either, it says so right on the label.
#3 Scythe can be mixed with R-up to speed things along, the very same reason they added diquat to Quickpro, so adding scythe to quickpro would be redundant and not aid in any bigger plant kills, only speed. 2,4-D can also be added along with a whole host of other herbicides, preemergents, adjuvants and even fertilizer to bump up effectiveness and/or the range of kill. ALL on the label.

If you want a sterilant, buy a sterilant. There is a whole slew of them on the market, but gylphosate is not one of them.

all ferris
09-08-2005, 09:03 PM
What time of day did you spray? Were the weed actively growing? What is the temp up there?

spraying in the morning will yield better results and if it is really dry and the weeds aren't growing very much it will take longer. If it is cool then you may have to up the rate.

Jason Rose
09-08-2005, 09:18 PM
If you want a sterilant, buy a sterilant. There is a whole slew of them on the market, but gylphosate is not one of them.

I think he hit it on the head there... Seems if I read your post correct you said it killed what was there but new growth was appearing, meaning that new seeds were germinating. Hell those suckers grow like... WEEDS! Round-up is a very temporary solution for bare ground weed control, the only other thing that's more temporary is a mower or weedeater. Find some soil sterilant, and don't be chincy about applying it, use the highest rate and do it early early spring before anything is coming up. If there is already green plants present when you spray the sterilant you will most likely need to add round-up to the mix as well.

bushtrimmer
09-08-2005, 09:54 PM
I have had the exact same problems recently. Handled grasses no problem, but larger weeds showed some browning but re-emergence of growth. I too, am very dissapointed with the results. Not to mention it takes forever to get die back. Just bought the larger "granular" gallon size container. Mixed at 1.5 ++. Same way. Poor results, especially at the price I paid!!! :realmad:

I agree with this 100%
mixing what I have left @ 1.5-2x recommended rate to get to work.
Have round up pro and scythe ready to use when I use up the crap

ajmctree
09-08-2005, 10:22 PM
I would have to say that i sprayed mostly in the early afternoons on the days that were warm and dry .The temps up here do not regularly get much above the 70's and we do get our fair share of rain to say the least.
I did 7 applications throughout the summer (mid july through mid August).It is a big piece of property and i fitted it in between other jobs .
There are some areas when i finished that were sprayed 2 and 3 times because i didn't use all the product for a given area so i would respray the greenery in high vis areas and you would not even be able to tell.
As for sterilents i havent used them before but i have sent away for product literature such as Sahara from BASF.
This seems to be an area within a lawn care company where it takes awhile to get comfortable with the use and applications of better than homeowners quality herbicides .

heritage
09-09-2005, 10:54 AM
I got my pesticide license last year as a safe and legal way of applying fertilizer for our residential customers. This year we have had a oppurtunity to spray herbicdes on large concrete companies grounds. They basically wanted all the greenery gone from where there opperation is and where they store there concrete product.
The majority of it is all spot spraying with a few small areas where there is a continued ground cover. I used a solo 4 gallon diaphram back pack sprayer .
I tried and feel i did follow the manufacures directions on the Roundup Quickpro container but i'm seeing less than satisfying results .I mixed it as recommended and applied it as recommended.
Also posted quite some time ago a post trying to gather info on this.
The owner of the buisness stated he was somewhat disapointed with the results .You can obviously see where there has browning of the plants and grass, but do you ever notice the new growth coming up .
Has anyone else had problems with less than expected results with this .
Like i said i read the the instructions as i do every time i use a chemical of any nature, But i don't see where i've gone wrong .
As per pounds per acre i don't feel it would apply to this , i did make it at 1.5 oz per gallon and on one tank i made it at 2oz per gallon to see if there was any difference. There was none all that noticable.

Thanks


Hi,
Stick with go ole' roundup pro (41 % Glyphosate) if you want the treated grassy and broadleaf weeds to die. Using products like scythe with your roundup, and the added diquot in quick pro give faster results than plain roundup, BUT the weeds often return from the treated plant because the scythe,diquot burned down the plant before the glyphosate gets a chance to translocate to the root system for a complete kill. The chemical companies do not mind as you will use more of there product every year. Here is two senarios....... Company A uses roundup with, Finale,Scythe or Diquot with there roundup and tells their clients they can expect fast results and weed free beds using their monthly weed control program. Company B uses roundup with no added quick kill herbicides and askes the client to be patient with this product as it works better and by spraying on a monthly basis, getting weeds before they mature to seed, will in a short period have beds looking clean and sprays may only need to be done bi- monthly to keep them clean.

My approach has always been what company b used. I know companies that use company A's approach because the want to make $$$ for 7 monthly weed control visits,(in New Jersey) and because many of the treated weeds return only to be re-burned down by another treatment of roundup/finale or roundup/scythe or roundup/diquot (quick pro) they will have plenty of weeds to respray next month. So the choice is yours. Post your results monthly if you choose to compare.

Pete D.

heritage
09-09-2005, 11:17 AM
I got my pesticide license last year as a safe and legal way of applying fertilizer for our residential customers. This year we have had a oppurtunity to spray herbicdes on large concrete companies grounds. They basically wanted all the greenery gone from where there opperation is and where they store there concrete product.
The majority of it is all spot spraying with a few small areas where there is a continued ground cover. I used a solo 4 gallon diaphram back pack sprayer .
I tried and feel i did follow the manufacures directions on the Roundup Quickpro container but i'm seeing less than satisfying results .I mixed it as recommended and applied it as recommended.
Also posted quite some time ago a post trying to gather info on this.
The owner of the buisness stated he was somewhat disapointed with the results .You can obviously see where there has browning of the plants and grass, but do you ever notice the new growth coming up .
Has anyone else had problems with less than expected results with this .
Like i said i read the the instructions as i do every time i use a chemical of any nature, But i don't see where i've gone wrong .
As per pounds per acre i don't feel it would apply to this , i did make it at 1.5 oz per gallon and on one tank i made it at 2oz per gallon to see if there was any difference. There was none all that noticable.

Thanks


Hi,
Stick with go ole' roundup pro (41 % Glyphosate) if you want the treated grassy and broadleaf weeds to die. Using products like scythe with your roundup, and the added diquot in quick pro give faster results than plain roundup, BUT the weeds often return from the treated plant because the scythe,diquot burned down the plant before the glyphosate gets a chance to translocate to the root system for a complete kill. The chemical companies do not mind as you will use more of there product every year. Here is two senarios....... Company A uses roundup with, Finale,Scythe or Diquot with there roundup and tells their clients they can expect fast results and weed free beds using their monthly weed control program. Company B uses roundup with no added quick kill herbicides and askes the client to be patient with this product as it works better and by spraying on a monthly basis, getting weeds before they mature to seed, will in a short period have beds looking clean and sprays may only need to be done bi- monthly to keep them clean.

My approach has always been what company b used. I know companies that use company A's approach because the want to make $$$ for 7 monthly weed control visits,(in New Jersey) and because many of the treated weeds return only to be re-burned down by another treatment of roundup/finale or roundup/scythe or roundup/diquot (quick pro) they will have plenty of weeds to respray next month. So the choice is yours. Post your results monthly if you choose to compare.

Pete D.

nelbuts
09-09-2005, 07:17 PM
Hey I have some Scythe and you can have that stinking crap. You have to use so much with Roundup or QuickPro that it is not cost effective for me.

I use Reward at about .3 ozs. per gallon with the QuickPro. It will start burning in a day and die althogether in about 4 days.

But here is a question for you all.

I remember using plain old RoundUp and vinegar years ago and the weeds dying in about 4-5 days.

Just does not seem as strong anymore.

Rebs
09-13-2005, 07:18 PM
Hey Nelbuts, how do you like using Reward? I was thinking about using it this winter/early spring tank mixed with my Pre-emerge. Is that what you do? Or do you use it as a spot spray? It will kill anything that is green!! Do you get a good kill with it for Poa anna?

Can you give me some feed back on Reward?

Thanks

GrazerZ
09-14-2005, 08:09 AM
First of all if it was pro dry, you may have not emulsified the mix properly. I had that happen. Now I use a large measuring cup to partially mix the powder while I fill the backpack. I make sure I only poer in emulsified mix. Also in situations like that you may want to try Sahara next time for commercial/industrial vegetation control. Sahara is none selective and has a pre emerent also in it.

MIDWEST25
09-14-2005, 09:33 AM
Add some Cygnet...Works like a champ

DFW Area Landscaper
09-14-2005, 09:51 AM
I would recomend using ordinary 41% glyphosphate without all that quick burn stuff, like scythe or whatever. It only makes sense that if the leaves are being burned back fast by these materials that they are dying before they have a chance to absorb the glyphosphate. Glyphosphate is a root killer. If it doesn't have time to get translocated to the roots it ain't gonna kill the plant.

The larger the roots, the harder it is to kill the plant. We have sprayed glyphoshpate directly over the top of things like Iris, with large bulb roots, to successfully eradicate bermuda with no visible harm to the Iris. We've also had to spray some sucker trees, with woody stems about 1/2" in diameter, every week for 6 weeks to kill them.

I would say that if you are dealing with large plants, like sucker trees and things of that nature, it's gonna take several (4 to 6) applications of glyphosphate to kill it. I would recommend spacing the applications out on 7 to 10 day intervals.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

Ric
09-14-2005, 10:12 AM
Yo

I have mixed Pre Emerge with my Roundup for years now. I found Myself spraying the same spots and by adding a pre emerge I didn't have to spray as often. I am scared of Sahara and other ground sterilities, so I don't use them.

Quick Pro I have never liked or had good success with. But Scythe I do like. I mix Roundup at the high label rate of 2.75oz per gallon of 41%. It works for me and kills the hard to kill Bermuda grass. Maybe because I mix it stronger I am getting results.

On hard to kill high stuff I add in 2-4-D at high label rate along with High rate of Roundup. Be careful that you don't use ester 2-4-D, it volatiles

SOONER GREEN
09-14-2005, 12:04 PM
41 percent glyphosate is the best way to go. Make sure you spray at the perennial rate.Add a pre-emergent to suppress new weed growth, most pre-emergent is labled to work in conjunction with turf grass so you wont be able to legallly spray at a rate that will keep other weeds from germinating for a long period of time. Soil sterilants will do that but you must add glypo to them to if weeds are present.If you decide to use a sterilant out of a backpack it will be the only thing you can spray from that backpack. the sterilant can get caught up in the rubber parts in the bp come out when you least expect it.Quick burn down stuff only gets in the way of killing perennial weeds.

GreenUtah
09-14-2005, 04:58 PM
. Also in situations like that you may want to try Sahara next time for commercial/industrial vegetation control. Sahara is none selective and has a pre emerent also in it.

Well, sort of, partially, in a way, in so much that it's a sterilant and has some properties that all sterilants have in common regarding leaching and bare ground applications that may not be common to non selectives like glyphosate or preemergent herbicides like pendimethalin, surflan or barricade. Here is the link for more info directly from the manufacturer regarding Sahara and the label so that you may understand exactly what it is and is not and how and where to use it properly.

http://www.vmanswers.com/products.aspx?pid=12&Type=41

Turf Troll
09-14-2005, 05:28 PM
I have switched to ranger pro less expensive and I believe the label goes to a 5% solution 1 gallon water to 6 oz of ranger pro (I might be off a 1/2oz.) which is top rate on backpack spraying. How far up solution % goes on Roundup I don't remember it should be the same with the same % of glyphosphate. The tougher the weed , the further in season the higher the % for me.

Ric
09-14-2005, 06:15 PM
I have switched to ranger pro less expensive and I believe the label goes to a 5% solution 1 gallon water to 6 oz of ranger pro (I might be off a 1/2oz.) which is top rate on backpack spraying. How far up solution % goes on Roundup I don't remember it should be the same with the same % of glyphosphate. The tougher the weed , the further in season the higher the % for me.


Turf Troll

I hope you're paying about $ 15.00 a gallon or less for Ranger Pro. Because at the rate you are mixing, your cost per thousand would exceded Roundup's high cost per thousand.

Turf Troll
09-14-2005, 09:03 PM
27.50 ranger pro
42.90 roundup pro
Thats per gallon I am not certain I had thought it was a better value . I certainly could be mistaken, At these prices would you still go with the roundup pro?

Ric
09-14-2005, 10:25 PM
Turf

I opened My mouth so let me educate you on the cost of chemicals. 1st important point is realizing the cost per Thousand Sq ft applied, not the cost per gallon. I will do the math from the number you gave and show you why your product is more expensive than Roundup Pro.

Ranger Pro you are mixing 6 oz per gallon and covering approx one thousand sq ft out of a back back sprayer.

1 gallon = 128 Oz divided by 6 oz = 21 thousand sq ft with 2 oz left over.

$ 27.50 divided by 21 thousand sq ft = $ 1.31 price per mixed gallon


Roundup Pro is mixed 2.75 oz per thousand sq ft at high rate.

one gallon = 128 oz divided by 2.75oz = 46.5 thousand sq ft or 46 plus 1.5 oz left over.

Roundup price per gallon is $ 42.90 divided by 46 thousand sq ft = $ 0.93 price per mixed gallon.

Most people mix Roundup at the lower rate of 1.5 oz per gallon which works out to be a cost of around $ 0.50 per gallon using your price figures.


I set up excel for each chemical I use and by inputing the current cost of each chemical I get my cost per thousand. As Prices increase because of the inflation we are going into, I can keep abreast of my chemical costs. I am currently writing a book about just this type of thing and hope to have it finished in the near future. Of course it involves a little more than simple math I have shown here today.

kcchiefs58
09-15-2005, 12:00 AM
Just a reply to the orginal question, I always use round-pro and have great succes killing green weeds I always use a 6% solution which would be just a little over 7 1/2 oz per 1000 ft.
using round up at 1.5 oz per 1000 will only kill grass if you are lucky.
on the other hand having used sycthe myself it seems to be a quick burn down much like gas, never had any satisfaction using it with anything.

ArizPestWeed
09-15-2005, 12:48 AM
41% is 41% no matter how you do it .
Isn't the surfactant the key to good control??

Ric
09-15-2005, 01:10 AM
Just a reply to the orginal question, I always use round-pro and have great succes killing green weeds I always use a 6% solution which would be just a little over 7 1/2 oz per 1000 ft.
using round up at 1.5 oz per 1000 will only kill grass if you are lucky.
on the other hand having used sycthe myself it seems to be a quick burn down much like gas, never had any satisfaction using it with anything.


Fellows You Too Airhead :D

It must be my night to give 8th grade math lessons. 7.5 oz of Roundup Pro is actually 2.4% AI. not 6%. Simple math is 7.5oz divided by 128 oz = 5.8 percent. But Round up is only 41% AI. Therefore .41 times .058 = .024 or 2.4%

I hope you are getting a good kill and being real careful with that rate because it sure is High enough to kill shrubs also. I will bet if you try that much in 3 gallons you get about the same results maybe a little slower.

Turf Troll
09-15-2005, 09:45 AM
Hey Ric,
I appreciate your break down because sometimes I don’t see to well, hear to well and I will miss something that may cost me.
But as I look at both products label both made by Monsanto with the same ingredient amounts and product, then look at the ”Mixing for hand-held Sprayers” rate chart both are identical for dilution rates they are both labeled under “Mixing 6.3” in their individual labels.
So for 1 gal @ 1% -1 1/3 oz., @ 1 1/2% - 2oz., and @ 5% - 6 ½ oz. both are the same.
With the ingredients and mixing rates the same, I still do not understand where my extra cost is located. Unless we crossed when I said depending on variety of weed and how far into the season we are the tougher the weed gets, I raise my rates. But as I am looking at the labels they looked identical that’s why I switched. I was suggesting maybe not in concise enough phrasing that he raise his rate.

Thanks Jim

Ric
09-15-2005, 10:34 AM
Hey Ric,
I appreciate your break down because sometimes I don’t see to well, hear to well and I will miss something that may cost me.
But as I look at both products label both made by Monsanto with the same ingredient amounts and product, then look at the ”Mixing for hand-held Sprayers” rate chart both are identical for dilution rates they are both labeled under “Mixing 6.3” in their individual labels.
So for 1 gal @ 1% -1 1/3 oz., @ 1 1/2% - 2oz., and @ 5% - 6 ½ oz. both are the same.
With the ingredients and mixing rates the same, I still do not understand where my extra cost is located. Unless we crossed when I said depending on variety of weed and how far into the season we are the tougher the weed gets, I raise my rates. But as I am looking at the labels they looked identical that’s why I switched. I was suggesting maybe not in concise enough phrasing that he raise his rate.

Thanks Jim


Jim

I BAD, for not reading the Ranger Pro label.

If you read my reply, I said I am using YOUR NUMBERS. I didn't take the time to look at a Ranger Pro Label. I still haven't read the Ranger Label. I know from years of Experience here in the sub tropics how much Roundup Pro works for me and used that rate to do my math.

I think we have had a good exchange of information, hopefully I have taught you something. Because you sure taught me to read all labels before Opening My big Keyboard. What the difference in Ranger Pro and Roundup Pro I will have to read the label and find out. There have been many changes made to Roundup over the years in the form of surfactant. Prosecutor is in fact Roundup Original made by Monsanto and packaged for Lesco. The same stuff has other brand names also. It is the additives or surfactants that make these chemical work just a little different. The additives or surfactants are not listed on the label, therefore what the difference between Ranger and Roundup is, we may not be able to find out easily.


PS. Thanks for the 5th grade reading lesson :D

Garth
09-15-2005, 12:00 PM
$42.90/gallon for Roundup Pro? Bloody hell. We get it at $24/'gallon. Mixed with Spike 80DF it's really good bare ground weed control. You need to consider picking it up in the 30 gallon containers. I know that $720 is alot of money, but if your account is large and you spray more than twice a year it actually saves alot more money than spending fifty bucks a gallon when you need it.

kcchiefs58
09-15-2005, 05:00 PM
Fellows You Too Airhead :D

It must be my night to give 8th grade math lessons. 7.5 oz of Roundup Pro is actually 2.4% AI. not 6%. Simple math is 7.5oz divided by 128 oz = 5.8 percent. But Round up is only 41% AI. Therefore .41 times .058 = .024 or 2.4%

I hope you are getting a good kill and being real careful with that rate because it sure is High enough to kill shrubs also. I will bet if you try that much in 3 gallons you get about the same results maybe a little slower.

According to my 8th grade math you take 128 times 6% which gives you 7.68 which is ounces per gallon of h20 so apparently my 8th grade math is just fine. also according to the label they do not say for a full oz of ai put this much in, they give the mixture rate as percentage of round up in that container not as ai in the container so if you follow the label which is the law then you will put the rate that is on the label not according to your specs.

Ric
09-15-2005, 07:30 PM
According to my 8th grade math you take 128 times 6% which gives you 7.68 which is ounces per gallon of h20 so apparently my 8th grade math is just fine. also according to the label they do not say for a full oz of ai put this much in, they give the mixture rate as percentage of round up in that container not as ai in the container so if you follow the label which is the law then you will put the rate that is on the label not according to your specs.


kcchief

your 8th grade math skills might not be up to the par you think they are. But your 5th grade reading and comprehension skills, certainly are not up to par. Re-read my math and see if you can figure it out for your self. If you can't. Post back and I will walk you through it step by step. ;) DUH

GreenUtah
09-16-2005, 10:53 AM
Actually, the label is expressed in percentages of R-up pro as a whole, inert ingredients and all, as a part of final solution and not active ingredient alone, as I believe KC was trying to say. That being said, a 2% solution(2 2/3 oz in 1 gallon of water) knocks grasses that are not five feet tall down just fine. Scythe can be temperature sensitive in our area where 40 degree swings are not uncommon in a single day, but I'd say it's about a wash in effectiveness vs. quickpro, so that really boils down to cost and which smell irritates you the most. At that high rate, I'd be just as worried about the plant shutting off before full intake as I would be with either of the "quickie" adds of diquat or scythe.

Ric
09-16-2005, 01:58 PM
Actually, the label is expressed in percentages of R-up pro as a whole, inert ingredients and all, as a part of final solution and not active ingredient alone, as I believe KC was trying to say. That being said, a 2% solution(2 2/3 oz in 1 gallon of water) knocks grasses that are not five feet tall down just fine. Scythe can be temperature sensitive in our area where 40 degree swings are not uncommon in a single day, but I'd say it's about a wash in effectiveness vs. quickpro, so that really boils down to cost and which smell irritates you the most. At that high rate, I'd be just as worried about the plant shutting off before full intake as I would be with either of the "quickie" adds of diquat or scythe.


Green Utah

Yes I understand the label of Roundup is written for all to understand and inert and AI are both considered. However the point of my math was for professional Applicator to know true cost of chemicals. Only by looking at the actual amount of AI can we calculate True Cost. In this case both products have the same percentage of AI. AirHead brought up a very important point that I didn't jump on. "Surfactants" can make of break the effectiveness of a chemical. For this reason I stay with Roundup Pro because I know now it effects plants that I may spray over to get weeds below. There are many plants that Round will only stunt or slow growth on because it was originally developed as a growth regulator and became the most successful pesticide ever developed. It is not a total kill to all plants. In fact there are many different type of uses for Roundup from select weed kill to growth regulation that I am not going to go into here.

We can get real deep into the actual .0001 of calculating these numbers. However there does become a point of common sense. The Label for Round up which I have not read in a long times says 2 2/3 oz. But my tip & pour only has 1/4 markings so I use 2 3/4 oz per gallon. But I feel that is close enough and could justify it by saying I have a total solution of 130 3/4 oz. The fact is on small quantity mixing you are never going to be perfect and who is to say you start with an exact 128oz.

I will also agree and made the point before that 7.5 oz of Roundup is an overkill. I think my point about over the top or over spray makes this point. If I am doing 4 and 5 foot tall weeds where I want a total kill, which in fact I did several weeks ago, I add in 2-4-D with my Roundup. I also know and told my customer it would take several sprays weeks apart to achieve that total kill. Along the same lines of Over Kill Airhead's comment about Surfactant plays a roll here also. The surfactants in Roundup will kill fish and run off becomes an issue with Roundup (read the label). The difference between Roundup and Aquamaster is only the surfactants.

GreenUtah
09-16-2005, 05:13 PM
yep, I know where the original cost comparison conversation was going by comparing the AI in both and the cost in putting down equal amounts. Just wasn't sure that KC was participating in that particular line, as is often the case with threads that run off elseehere along here. I also agree that measurements beyond the ounce or even several ounces, when dealing with products with effective "ranges" are not to be overly concerned with and anyone using generic glphos without surfactants/adjuvants will soon discover their relevance, whether they know that's what it is or not(by their product not getting the kill that r-up always got for them). As far as the label goes, there are specific instructions for "chemical mowing" an interesting term, for certain target species. 5 foot tall late? That's what flail mowers are for...not everything has a chemical solution =)

kcchiefs58
09-16-2005, 07:05 PM
I understand the comparing of the ai.just as urea 46-0-0 at am. sulfate at 21-0-0. if the price is say in 50 lb bags at $10 for urea and $7 for am sulfate in order for 1lb of nitrogen it takes 2+ lbs of urea and a little less than 5 lbs am sulfate. so the urea would cost 40 cents and the am sulfate 70 cents per a full pound of actual n.
What i don't get is needing to know the "total cost" of ai as ric put it.
Why don't you take the price like the round-up at $47.90 a gallon divide that by 128 (oz. in gallon) which equals about 37 1/2 cents per oz. then the cost would be the number of oz of that product used which at the 2.75 oz mentioned would be $1.03. Is this not the total cost of the product used? Am i missing another step or is this close to the figures you have?
I am not trying to be funny but I am trying to be enlightend which I thought these types of forums are for. If i can better myself, that is what i am trying to acheive here and hopefully the bottom line would be more profits in my wallet.

Ric
09-17-2005, 02:27 AM
KC

I am not going to try and make you feel stupid because there are many reading here who Have no Idea what is happening. They have given up on trying to under stand this thread. You on the other hand admit you need a little help and I will try and give it to you. Maybe I won't be able to total explain it to you. My Grammar is very poor but I make up for it with my math skills. we each have our strong and weak points.

First if we are going to compare numbers we have to be on the same page so to speak. Your Price per oz of Roundup and mine are different, WHY? Because we used two different price per gallon figures. The original price was $ 42.50 per gallon at $ 0.93 for 2.75 oz. your figures are $ 47.50 per gallon at $ 1.03 for 2.75 oz. In both cases the math is correct but we were not on the same page.

In a excel spread sheet I do just the same thing you said, I find the price per oz. then in the next cell I multiply is by the rate per thousand. I set this up for each Chemical I use and if there is a price change I simply key in the new price per gallon and excel does the rest to give me high and low rates per thousand and per acre as well as my stand tank mix size cost. This does not give me actual cost only theoretical cost. I add in a factor for over spray etc and use that as my cost guideline. BTW as a college student I taught a Material calculation class as a student teacher. Therefore I would hope I know this stuff. I would also not expect other to be as experienced. But I am not perfect so someone is bound to catch me in a mistake. Also there are a 100 different ways of arriving at these answers. I suggest you stay with one method until you understand it completely. Then you can look at other ways to do it.

One last point I would like to make. You were talking about the price on Nitrogen and comparing 46-0-0 to 21-0-0. This is all fine and good and one of the reason I hijack this thread. However I would like to use Nitrogen to drive home an other point about Chemicals. Sometimes response of a chemical is more important than the cost. In the case of Urea it must be first transformed into a usable form by Microbe before it can be up taken by the plant. Ammonium Nitrate is ready avable to the plant and is a better choice in for faster response. It also is better in cooler ground temperature when Microbes are less likely to be active.

Oops I missed explaining the important of calculating cost of AI. I think this is simple and only needs to be done when comparing two Different manufacture of produce containing the same AI at different strengths. However if you read the labels of many products you will find the list the amount of AI as the criteria for yearly application and you must do the math.

kcchiefs58
09-18-2005, 12:38 AM
Thanks Ric, believe it or not i do understand and my mistake for the wrong figures. I too have an excel sheet set up the same way, it is the only way to truly know what the chemicals cost you, and i do understand in the comparisons of ai but was thrown off when it was mentioned a true cost of chemicals, i thought my figures were pretty accurate and then it made me think i wasn't doing something right. But as i reread the thread i understand the comparing of ai of the two products to give a true cost. in essence comparing apples to apples.
anyway thanks

Ric
09-18-2005, 01:29 AM
Thanks Ric, believe it or not i do understand and my mistake for the wrong figures. I too have an excel sheet set up the same way, it is the only way to truly know what the chemicals cost you, and i do understand in the comparisons of ai but was thrown off when it was mentioned a true cost of chemicals, i thought my figures were pretty accurate and then it made me think i wasn't doing something right. But as i reread the thread i understand the comparing of ai of the two products to give a true cost. in essence comparing apples to apples.
anyway thanks


KC

Thank you for stroking my ego. It is a good feeling to think you have helped someone. With just a little thinking anyone can do this and it is important to know your true costs. By knowing your true costs you will never lose an other bid. You may not get the job, But you won't lose money from under bidding. Now try using my rate of Roundup and I think you will still kill weeds and save money.

GreenUtah
09-18-2005, 03:00 PM
good...glad that's settled and for those of you follwong along, it's the method for figuring two different products with the same active ingredient, but in different ratios to figure the true cost at identical ai rates per 1000 sq.ft from the two different products. I also am in complete agreement regarding the effectivenss of the lower rates. One additional thing regarding the Urea and it's available N, often times that delay for uptake is exactly what you need, especially when tank mixing with iron solutions, a thread for another time all on it's own..lol