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lqmustang
09-08-2005, 09:57 PM
Guess where it came from :angry:

lqmustang
09-08-2005, 09:58 PM
Here's another one with part of the coil pack showing. Yup, that got busted also.

lqmustang
09-08-2005, 09:59 PM
oops, forgot the pic

Ironmower
09-08-2005, 10:03 PM
I'm going to guess one of the V-10's, being the plug is a Motorcraft?

lqmustang
09-08-2005, 10:10 PM
ding ding ding, we have a winner

I'm getting my As* lubed and puckered up for tomorrow when I take it in. How many times has this happened, and Ford still is charging upwards of $3k for the fix.

UNISCAPER
09-08-2005, 10:51 PM
Lemme ask a question here....Why is this continuing to happen? I know what a dealership will tell you, but what inside that engine was not designed properly to cause this problem, and, why if Ford (or for that matter any other brand) knows this occurs is it not waranteed?

Ironmower
09-08-2005, 10:58 PM
It simply doesn't have enough threads for the combination of the spark plug and compression. The '02.5 and up are much better about it.

See if you can find a wrecked '02-'04 V-10 and take both whole heads from it and you will have the better threads--and come out a lot better than letting the dealer run away with your wallet.

lqmustang
09-09-2005, 07:17 AM
I've done a bunch of searching around on the net, and this problem seems to be just huge. Ironmower is correct that the heads only have about 3 turns of threads for the plugs. There is currently a class action suit running thru California for this problem, but I guess Ford has been able to get the suit to apply only to California residents. I would fix it myself, but time becomes an issue. I've been able to get a plug threaded into the hole about 1 turn, and I'm hoping that I can get thru todays route. I'm dropping it off at the dealership as soon as I'm done, and then I'm headed to the Bahamas Saturday afternoon. I'm not about to let this screw up my trip. Hopefully by the time I get back it will be fixed and ready to go.

lawnmaniac883
09-09-2005, 10:14 PM
Quality ford engineering, the aluminum heads are not given enough turns to take the required torque for the plugs. Dealerships strip the heads on these all the time. Sucks big time because only fix is a new head.

lqmustang
09-09-2005, 10:27 PM
I dropped it off today. They said they would try to retap the plug hole first, but I don't hold out much hope for such an easy fix. I'm pretty sure I'll come home to a huge repair bill. :cry:

Smalltimer1
09-09-2005, 11:55 PM
I dropped it off today. They said they would try to retap the plug hole first, but I don't hold out much hope for such an easy fix. I'm pretty sure I'll come home to a huge repair bill. :cry:


Tried a heli-coil yet?

UNISCAPER
09-10-2005, 10:31 AM
I can't believe Ford did not use stainless inserts on the holes to begin with. That's what is in the Hulman-Moody motor in my Cobra.

Smalltimer1
09-10-2005, 11:42 PM
I bet if there were 2 more tiers of threads in the plug sleeve that wouldn't have been a problem. Oh well live and learn. IIRC, the '02-current have a deeper plug sleeve with more threads. Improvement is what its all about.

clay duncan
09-10-2005, 11:56 PM
there is a company called time-cert that makes a repair kit just for the triton engine. it is a permanent repair and the head does not have to be removed for the fix. the fix is a carbon steel threaded insert and the kit comes with everything needed to install correctly. i think the website is timesert.com . i learned about it from the ford truck website and it is supposed to be a really good and relatively cheap repair compared to a new head. good luck.....

UNISCAPER
09-11-2005, 09:41 AM
Sounds like they miscalced the material they needed under the loads and heat that engine runs at. We only had 3/8" on an outboard motor cylinder head when we raced and we ran 200 lbs of compression. The obvious difference is the outboard did not have a closed cooling system and even at 10,000 RPM the head temp was well under 160°.

What kills me here ( and this would regardless of brand) is why Ford would charge anyone to fix it. Its kind of like when the galvanization peeled off the inside of fuel tanks we had on an F-450 and I got boned paying a $1350.00 bill that should have been Fords issue.

This is the kind of stuff that led to my switching of our fleet. There is no way I would allow Ford to charge you on this one. The sad part is you probably need the truck, and if you don't pay the bill, you don't get the truck back until you sucessfully argue you are not at fault here. And then maybe I'm getting excited over nothing. Perhaps there was a type of recall and you serial number got missed. This should be interesting to see how it shakes out.

CrewCutEnterprises
09-12-2005, 01:25 AM
I blew a plug out last year in my v8 triton, cost about 1500, then warrenty covered most, o and no truck for 3 weeks while head was installed. Fricken sucked

I bought a diesel,but the gas v8 still runs fine after the new head

UNISCAPER
09-12-2005, 09:30 AM
That's amazing.... 3 weeks to install a cylinder head....They gave you a rental truck and ate the bill I hope.

CrewCutEnterprises
09-13-2005, 07:54 PM
yea right, i hate ford dealer after that one.. It was bull shi..

South Florida Lawns
09-13-2005, 09:42 PM
took a trip this past weekend and passed 24 broken down fords on the side of the road. Built Ford Tough? I don't think so, their products are junk. And don't even get me started on the powerchoker,that engine gave me more then enough trouble.

lawnmaniac883
09-14-2005, 08:05 PM
Heh, powerchoker...frien of mine has a 03 dually with the 6.0 powerjoke, if he stops the engine and tries to restart within like 5 mins or something, it is a no-go. Thing wont start until it sits for ~7minutes or so, pittiful.

Ironmower
09-14-2005, 10:12 PM
took a trip this past weekend and passed 24 broken down fords on the side of the road. Built Ford Tough? I don't think so, their products are junk. And don't even get me started on the powerchoker,that engine gave me more then enough trouble.


And the unproven opinions are off to the races once again..... ;)

Ironmower
09-14-2005, 10:18 PM
double post

Ironmower
09-14-2005, 10:23 PM
triple post

lqmustang
09-17-2005, 05:40 PM
To follow up, I got my truck back today with a lovely bill for $4131.53. I am still trying to get some relief from Ford for this obvious flaw in their product. I appreciate all the suggestions for cheaper fixes, but as I stated earlier I was under gun as it blew 2 days before leaving for the Bahamas. I didn't have time to shop around for better pricing or have time to fix it myself. And with taking a week off work, I needed the truck to be ready to go as soon as I got home. I'll see how things go with Ford. This could very possibly be the last Ford I own.

Dirty Water
09-17-2005, 06:33 PM
Wow, you got taken.

They replaced both heads? I'm guessing by that price they did.

Any machine shop worth their salt could have either helicoiled those threads or drilled them out and put in a insert. If you have pulled the heads and reinstalled yourself you would have been out only a few hundred.

I wonder why Smalltimer hasn't started spewing crap about Chevy's and Dodges in this thread trying to balance it out a little more in his favor :)

UNISCAPER
09-17-2005, 07:54 PM
"This could very possibly be the last Ford I own."

That was the smartest business move we ever made, and I'm sure at some point we might see evidence that steers us in a different direction. I don't see that happening any time in the near future.

I'll revert to my original comment...I'm frankly sick and tired of seeing manufacturers that we all spend so much money with, and put faith in equipment use our industry for test pilots until the next design change/flaws are made.

lqmustang
09-17-2005, 08:11 PM
The repair was for the right side head only. Roughly $1400 for the head, $1900 for labor, plus gaskets and other misc parts. I also had them replace all the spark plugs. Seeing as how Ford doesn't feel that there is a design flaw if the left side blows a plug it must be the service garage's fault for improper installation of the plugs, right? Up to this point I have been very Ford loyal, and have been for the most part happy with their products and service. I have owned, in no particular order, a 1987 Mustang, 1997 Explorer, 1994 Explorer, 1991 Mustang, 1999 F250, 1978 Mustang, 1981 Mustang, 1988 EXP, a Fairmont, a Granada. If I don't get any resolution the only way I can fight back is by not supporting their company and not buying their products. I'm sure they don't care, I am only a drop in a huge bucket.

lawnmaniac883
09-17-2005, 09:44 PM
That is ridiculous, 1400 for a new head? LOL, sorry but you got taken, never visit that dealer again. I bet they used the same garbage head with 3 spins, right? IMO, you should have done it yourself with aftermarket heads.

CrewCutEnterprises
09-18-2005, 12:52 AM
My head was about a grand from the dealer.. plus everything else. Worst biach of it all, they made me pay for the thing above the spark plug because when it shot out it broke that, but it was directly related to defect. blah bla Was is the #7 plug... Ive known a few that have had that problem. right side head is the only side that i heard had problems, or is it both

lqmustang
09-18-2005, 12:56 AM
Not sure how they count the plugs, but mine blew the 4th plug back on the right side. From the reading I've done that seems to be the most common plug to blow out. I had to replace the coil pack also. Same thing, force of the plug blowout busted the coil pack. BTW, the head is the newer design with more threads for the plug.

Green Pastures
09-18-2005, 01:02 AM
I've got a 1999 F-250 with a V-10 and I've never had a single engine problem.

In fact where have I been? Never heard of this "problem" before.....

Ford is the best truck I've ever owned, Im looking to buy a 2006 PSD this week.

lawnmaniac883
09-18-2005, 09:19 AM
Not sure how they count the plugs, but mine blew the 4th plug back on the right side. From the reading I've done that seems to be the most common plug to blow out. I had to replace the coil pack also. Same thing, force of the plug blowout busted the coil pack. BTW, the head is the newer design with more threads for the plug.


Funny, they make you pay for all of that crap, and give you the new redisigned head, IMO, they were too cheap to make a big recall and fix all of the heads, instead, they are making money from their own defect. :realmad:

Ironmower
09-18-2005, 09:26 AM
I wonder why Smalltimer hasn't started spewing crap about Chevy's and Dodges in this thread trying to balance it out a little more in his favor :)

I wonder why someone is stirring the pot fishing for a response? ;)

Anyway, a used head from a wrecked '02-up V-10 would go for around $300-500, removal/installation, probably another $300-$400 and miscellaneous parts (new head gasket, etc.), probably another $200. You really got raked over the coals. Find a new dealer. Dealers like that put a bad reputation on good products, I've had that happen with several pieces of equipment. The one that pops in my head the most was when we used to run Massey Ferguson Diesel 135's to do the drag work and stuff, had one that just could not keep a injection pump in and the dealer tried to blame it on not changing the fuel filter. Funny thing was that the tractor had less than 100 hours on it and I had already checked the filter and made sure there was no air in the lines.

stumper1620
09-18-2005, 11:17 AM
To follow up, I got my truck back today with a lovely bill for $4131.53. I am still trying to get some relief from Ford for this obvious flaw in their product. I appreciate all the suggestions for cheaper fixes, but as I stated earlier I was under gun as it blew 2 days before leaving for the Bahamas. I didn't have time to shop around for better pricing or have time to fix it myself. And with taking a week off work, I needed the truck to be ready to go as soon as I got home. I'll see how things go with Ford. This could very possibly be the last Ford I own.
Too bad Honda dosen't have a good truck. When I worked at Honda this would be considered a product quality assurance repair, Honda would cover the Whole bill. I replaced 6,000 dollar transmissions at 130,000 mile under honda warranty (100% covered) a lot of the time some things they covered I considered excessive but, they are Quality minded. My SD 250 7.3 can't get in the door at ford for less than 100 bucks evertime, Ford Quality & customer Satifaction concerns SUCK!!

stumper1620
09-18-2005, 11:26 AM
I've got a 1999 F-250 with a V-10 and I've never had a single engine problem.

In fact where have I been? Never heard of this "problem" before.....

Ford is the best truck I've ever owned, Im looking to buy a 2006 PSD this week.
I'm not sure about the 6.0 but, My 7.3 has the worst mileage, i pulled my 16' open trailer empty for a 150 miles to pick up a 36" WB. whats that weigh about 300lbs tops? I came back home and couldn't make the round trip on 1 tank of fuel, 8.6MPG the best I get is 14 with no trailer and a good tail wind.
My uncle came down here from alaska pulling a 28' travel trailer and got 18 as his lowest mileage in the mountians with his duramax. that about did it for me. I Hate my Ford. If I could get my mileage to come up I would feel different about it But no matter what I try It sucks.

UNISCAPER
09-18-2005, 12:01 PM
"I replaced 6,000 dollar transmissions at 130,000 mile under honda warranty (100% covered) a lot of the time some things they covered I considered excessive but, they"

Good grief, a transmission for one of those rice rockets cost more than a Ford truck tranny???
For milage, I have yet to see any one with a 6.0 Ford in our area get over 15, and that is on flat freeway surface. Get them in the mountains pulling loads and they barely hit 12, assuming of course the transmission holds out until the next fuel up.

Dirty Water
09-18-2005, 12:11 PM
"I replaced 6,000 dollar transmissions at 130,000 mile under honda warranty (100% covered) a lot of the time some things they covered I considered excessive but, they"

Good grief, a transmission for one of those rice rockets cost more than a Ford truck tranny???
For milage, I have yet to see any one with a 6.0 Ford in our area get over 15, and that is on flat freeway surface. Get them in the mountains pulling loads and they barely hit 12, assuming of course the transmission holds out until the next fuel up.

Transaxles cost far more than transmissions due to the fact that they contain the entire diffential assembly as well.

UNISCAPER
09-18-2005, 12:13 PM
"Transaxles cost far more than transmissions due to the fact that they contain the entire diffential assembly as well."

Ahhhh now the plot thickens. I forgot about the transaxle. Those have to be a real mo foe to work on as well.

Dirty Water
09-18-2005, 12:44 PM
Ahhhh now the plot thickens. I forgot about the transaxle. Those have to be a real mo foe to work on as well.

They are easier to work on than ANY automatic...but less fun than a transmission.

Keith
09-18-2005, 03:12 PM
Well, it's a done deal now. The money has been spent, the work is done, so there is no sense telling the guy how good of a deal he got or how much he over-payed.

For future reference to anyone who might read this when their modular Ford spits a plug...Ford dealerships are not going to do Timeserts. They are not going to take the liability, being it is not standard Ford procedure. Ford tells them not to do them. If you want to do Timeserts as a repair, do it yourself, or find a mechanic outside of Ford. They are supposed to work quite well. If that is not the road you want to take, go with a salvage yard head. New is an option, and it looks like I could get one for $1100+/- with valvetrain. A little more than half that with no valvetrain.

It seems to be a problem on the V10 at near 100k miles. It doesn't always happen then, but it seems to a lot of the time. Who the hell knows who installed them or how at the engine plant :dizzy: There is a proper way to do the plugs and I rarely see anyone follow that, even dealerships. I have seen several times owners reports spitting a plug soon after a plug change. The fact of it is, they need to be torqued to the proper spec. They need to have anti-sieze put on the the threads. And they need to be done when the engine is stone cold due to the aluminum heads. How many times do you really think that is followed?

Good luck from a fellow V10 owner.

Ironmower
09-18-2005, 08:36 PM
"I replaced 6,000 dollar transmissions at 130,000 mile under honda warranty (100% covered) a lot of the time some things they covered I considered excessive but, they"

Good grief, a transmission for one of those rice rockets cost more than a Ford truck tranny???
For milage, I have yet to see any one with a 6.0 Ford in our area get over 15, and that is on flat freeway surface. Get them in the mountains pulling loads and they barely hit 12, assuming of course the transmission holds out until the next fuel up.

I have considered V-10's for the new trucks, but decided against it when gas prices surged through the roof. I did test drive a new 3v V-10 F-350 and it impressed me with its power, but the 10mpg regardless of loaded or empty helped change my mind against it.

A couple of the guys that work for me requested sticks and others requested autos when I went to replace the older trucks, and being that I'm a fairly flexible person I got a few of each when I bought them. The 6spd. F-550's are getting around 18 empty and 13 loaded. The auto F-450's and 550's are getting 17 empty and 12 fully laden. 5 are dumps, 1 is a service body. 3 autos/3 sticks, no problems.

The International 4300 with the DT-466 I'm getting is supposed to get about 10 empty and 8 loaded, but we'll see when it comes in.

My personal '05 F-350 w/ the 6-Liter is getting 20 empty and 15 loaded. Mine's an XLT SC/LB/SRW 4x4 and the automatic in it is great, it holds hills and pulls hell off its hinges.

stumper1620
09-18-2005, 08:45 PM
"I replaced 6,000 dollar transmissions at 130,000 mile under honda warranty (100% covered) a lot of the time some things they covered I considered excessive but, they"

Good grief, a transmission for one of those rice rockets cost more than a Ford truck tranny???
For milage, I have yet to see any one with a 6.0 Ford in our area get over 15, and that is on flat freeway surface. Get them in the mountains pulling loads and they barely hit 12, assuming of course the transmission holds out until the next fuel up.
LOL,
I forgot those fantastic newly designed transmissions they put in them things.
the way I heard it, they don't give any warning signs before they go either.

lqmustang
09-18-2005, 08:54 PM
After doing more reading on the Ford blowout, you might get a little warning. If you hear anything that remotely sounds like a lifter tapping, get the thing home and check the plugs. I read that some people say they heard what sounded like lifter tap right before the plug blew. I heard what I thought was a sticking lifter about 1 day before the plug blew. Wish I had known that was a warning sign.

Ironmower
09-18-2005, 10:20 PM
LOL,
I forgot those fantastic newly designed transmissions they put in them things.
the way I heard it, they don't give any warning signs before they go either.

That is, IF they go.

olderthandirt
09-18-2005, 10:34 PM
My personal '05 F-350 w/ the 6-Liter is getting 20 empty and 15 loaded. Mine's an XLT SC/LB/SRW 4x4 and the automatic in it is great, it holds hills and pulls hell off its hinges.

Out of 4 ford PSD the absolute best I ever got was running empty with the cruise set at 65mph for a 450 trip was 18 mpg. That was 1 time deal and have never seen fords that got any kind of milage out of there diesels. I run gear ratio from the 3.55, 3.73,& 4.10 auto's and they average 12 mpg empty and if lucky 10 loaded.

UNISCAPER
09-18-2005, 11:38 PM
i really think the milage thing has a great deal to do with where you are. We have weird fuel in CA, it oxygenates the air, along with some very serious grades as we are sitting in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountain range. Right now for example, we have a job sitting at 8400 feet above sea level. There is no way you will see over 12 on any truck at that hieght, as long as you burn the liberal idiocy we call fuel...My buddy is running 13-14 at best in his 6.0 crew cab. Many of the guys who pull out of the same brick yard are gve or take pretty close to that number.

Ironmower
09-19-2005, 12:30 AM
Out of 4 ford PSD the absolute best I ever got was running empty with the cruise set at 65mph for a 450 trip was 18 mpg. That was 1 time deal and have never seen fords that got any kind of milage out of there diesels. I run gear ratio from the 3.55, 3.73,& 4.10 auto's and they average 12 mpg empty and if lucky 10 loaded.

Mine's a 3.73LS. I usually try to keep the RPM's below 2 grand (which still puts out plenty of power, right at peak torque anyway) and I don't usually run over 70 either. Empty if I run at 70mph+ mileage drops to 16.

lqmustang
09-21-2005, 10:28 PM
Just a little update on Ford's lovely handling of my problems. I call Ford Customer Care to see if I could get some relief on the repair. Basically told me 'No, have a nice day'. I requested a supervisor, trying to take it up a level, and got the same response. Despite the fact that I've been a loyal Ford customer for years, and they can easily pull that info up, obviously customer satisfaction is no longer a part of their policy. I could understand if I was making a claim on something like ball joints, bearings, or some other wear part, but come on. Spark plugs holes never were a wear item before. :dizzy: Ford doesn't even recommend changing the spark plugs until 100k. By that time the problem has manifested itself and you're screwed. Also found an interesting tidbit of info. Did you know that Ford has shipped almost 12,000 replacement heads for the Triton 4.6, 5.4, and 6.8 engines in the last 36 months? No wonder they don't want to do a recall, they are raking in the bucks from screwing their customers.

UNISCAPER
09-21-2005, 11:21 PM
Now figure 3 automatic transmissions through the on average life expectancy of every Ford truck I owned since the C-6 was dropped. Ford's response, Oh, so sorry, now pay me again A$$HOLE....

They make great trucks, as long as you don't have rely on them to do any real work, thats why we switched. Then yesterday I get this call from the commercial fleet manager for the local Ford dealer asking me if there was anything they could do for me...My reply..Sure, take this input shaft, stand it upright on your desk chair and sit down real fast.....And by the way, vasoline helps when used in moderation....

Sorry to hear about your troubles. No one should have to go through that FROM ANY BRAND TRUCK DEALER!!!!!!

RedWolf
09-24-2005, 09:42 PM
i had a 2005 f 250 with the same trouble.after i got the bill i said thats it and sold the pos and took the money i got from it and fixed my 1976 chevy 1 ton diesel.i rebuilt the motor and tranny and the old girl is a real hard working truck.Ive out run fords coming off a stop light with 3 yard of limerock and all the ford sees is the black smoke from the 6.2.I will never buy a ford again.
FORD=Fix Or Repair Daily

Ironmower
09-25-2005, 12:03 AM
i had a 2005 f 250 with the same trouble.after i got the bill i said thats it and sold the pos and took the money i got from it and fixed my 1976 chevy 1 ton diesel.i rebuilt the motor and tranny and the old girl is a real hard working truck.Ive out run fords coming off a stop light with 3 yard of limerock and all the ford sees is the black smoke from the 6.2.I will never buy a ford again.
FORD=Fix Or Repair Daily


Reading posts like this gets really entertaining.

I had a '84 C-30 with a 6.2 and it was the biggest POS my company had ever owned. It did like most 6.2's and snapped the crank at around 30k miles.

I bet that Ford you outran was a 4 cylinder Ranger. :dizzy:

Next time make your story actually believable.

Keith
09-25-2005, 03:26 PM
i had a 2005 f 250 with the same trouble.after i got the bill i said thats it and sold the pos and took the money i got from it and fixed my 1976 chevy 1 ton diesel.i rebuilt the motor and tranny and the old girl is a real hard working truck.Ive out run fords coming off a stop light with 3 yard of limerock and all the ford sees is the black smoke from the 6.2.I will never buy a ford again.
FORD=Fix Or Repair Daily

You bought and 05 F250 V8 or V10 and had a spark plug blow out? That would be the first I had ever of a 3V doing this. You must have really driven the wheels off this thing in just a few months, to be out of warranty and all.

UNISCAPER
09-25-2005, 04:25 PM
I'm not at all pleased with ford truck division at this point and my life and I have to say that sounds way too out there even for a Ford to have happen.

The 382 cubc inch GM diesel was the improved version of junk, doggie as hell, noisey as a sewing machine on nitro. Either that or whoever you were racing was sleeping at the light.

wojo23323
10-04-2005, 03:52 PM
I just found the #6 plug on my 5.4 V-8 blown out. Trying to re tap today but no tools will fit down the hole so i have a friend making a tool for me. If that does not work it will be off to the machine shop tomorrow. My plug looks exactly like the one in the first pics. :angry: :angry: :angry: :realmad: :realmad: :realmad:

lqmustang
10-04-2005, 07:23 PM
I feel for you. Before taking the head off, give this a try. Through all the reading I've done the Big Sert seems to be a popular fix for Ford's blowout problem that doesn't exist. :realmad: http://www.timesert.com/html/bigsert.html

Also, if you have time, go to http://www.forddefects.com/index.php and let them know about it. That is where they are posting updated to the class action suit in California. I also filed a complaing with the NHTSB. The more complaints they get, the better chance we have of them investigation the problem with the early Ford mod motor heads.

lqmustang
11-16-2005, 07:10 PM
I thought I would resurrect this thread, as today I received an e-mail from the NHTSA. Seems they have opened an investigation into the spark plug blowout issue on the Triton engines, and wanted more detailed information in addition to the complaint I filed a couple months ago. I can only hope that they find against Ford so that I, as well as countless others, can get some compensation for Ford's stupidity. If anyone else has had this problem, please go to the NHTSA website and file a complaint. The more complaints they have, the better chance of them finding against Ford. http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

M RASCOE&SONS
11-16-2005, 08:12 PM
if you can afoard to shell out the 3k to fix ,then i would doctor it up to make it to the dealership and trade her in on a new truck.put the 3k down on the new one.good luck man hope the ford guys take care of you

Albemarle Lawn
11-21-2005, 03:01 PM
Justice for Ford customers will be served when Ford family is jailed, all their bank accounts emptied and redistributed to Ford customers.

Finally, all Ford vehicles bought back from customers at full MSRP plus an inconvenience fee. Buyback cars are crushed and transported, at Ford's expense, to the Ford family compound. There, they are lifted by helicopter, at Ford's cost, and dropped on top of the Ford mansion from 500 ft altitude, one by one, until the home is smothered, the swimming pools and ponds filled, the entire place covered with crushed Fords.

lawnboy dan
11-21-2005, 04:23 PM
this is why i bought a toyota tundra!

RedWingsDet
11-21-2005, 06:33 PM
Justice for Ford customers will be served when Ford family is jailed, all their bank accounts emptied and redistributed to Ford customers.

Finally, all Ford vehicles bought back from customers at full MSRP plus an inconvenience fee. Buyback cars are crushed and transported, at Ford's expense, to the Ford family compound. There, they are lifted by helicopter, at Ford's cost, and dropped on top of the Ford mansion from 500 ft altitude, one by one, until the home is smothered, the swimming pools and ponds filled, the entire place covered with crushed Fords.

Their property is so big, there might be room left over, and what about their 125ft Boat!???! lol

but anyway, why do you hate ford so much?

IMO, all the big 3 are the same, they just have different features on their vechicles. As long as its american, im sold.

hosejockey2002
11-22-2005, 12:11 PM
this is why i bought a toyota tundra!

Toyota doesn't sell a real truck in the US- yet. It will be interesting to see what the big 3 do when they finally do. But for now, the Tundra has next-to-no payload capacity, so for most of us who need to haul 3000 lbs. + the Tundra is of no use.

lawnboy dan
11-22-2005, 04:07 PM
true-i dont need my tundra for carrying a lot of weight- just pulling my trailer. the bed is the only area of my tundra that could use improvment. its too shallow. even with a 8 foot bed -you cant get a lot into it. they fixed this on the double cab which is what i would get if i had to do it over again.