Which blower?

[soilman]

The Echo PB-403 would be ideal, if it didn't weigh 20.7 pounds, compared to the PB-260L being 14.5 pounds. (http://www.echo-usa.com/prods_list.asp?Category=POWERBLOWER)

I am 140 pounds and 5 feet 11 inches tall and wondering if I might have trouble with carrying a 20.7 pound backpack for awhile. I have heard that the 403 provides plenty of power but am not sure about the 260L. The 403 is only about $30 more than the 260L, and I think it is a better value (44 cc's as compared to 25.4) -- but the extra power won't do me much good if I get worn out from carrying it.

Does anyone use a 260L? Does it provide enough power to lift some dirt and sand, as well as leaves? Can anyone compare it with a 403, which I've heard from several sources has "power to spare." What I want to know, is does the 260L have "sufficient power." I need to clean up after edging sidewalks that haven't been edged for a month or more, as well as to do fall leaf cleanups. Or do you think I will have no problem carrying around the 403? If so -- it is a better value.

Thanks in advance.

[Lawn Masters]

Hey, I once carried a BR400 backpack for 3 hours to clean up a school I mowed, and it didnt tire me out any, so I doubt you'd have a problem with it. but why settle for a 44cc blower? what you SHOULD go with is a 50+cc engine. more power means you get done sooner.

[Mike's Yard Services]

The 403 should be fine....just be sure to adjust the straps so it is not hanging down to your azzzzzzzzzzz..otherwise, I also have a 260 as my backup, or for my daughter when she's out helping to make a little cash (She is 15,5-6,110). Mike

[soilman]

Mike's Yard Services, is your daughter able to use the 403? Is it difficult for her? I don't think I'm an awful lot bigger. My wrists are only about 6 inches in circumference, chest 36 inches, waist about 32. No, you don't need to tell me your daughter's measurements, LOL... I don't want to wear myself out carrying around something that is too heavy for me.

[ed2hess]

You are correct about the weight being a big factor in productivity when you are on the small size. Not much available under 20# in the backpack. I like the feel of the Stihl BR420 but it is around 20#, you might check to see if any dealers have the BR400 it was lighter and not bad.

[topsites]

Hey, I once carried a BR400 backpack for 3 hours to clean up a school I mowed, and it didnt tire me out any, so I doubt you'd have a problem with it. but why settle for a 44cc blower? what you SHOULD go with is a 50+cc engine. more power means you get done sooner.

Put in the 4-liter bmw v-8 engine, much better, more power.
Come to think of it, just take the 5.0 12-cylinder and go all out, I mean you'd likely get a 1-acre lot FULL of leaves blown off before the engine gets a chance to revv all the way.

[soilman]

ed2hess You are correct about the weight being a big factor in productivity when you are on the small size.

Yup.

[lawnmaniac883]

Come to think of it, just take the 5.0 12-cylinder and go all out, I mean you'd likely get a 1-acre lot FULL of leaves blown off before the engine gets a chance to revv all the way.[/QUOTE]

lol...this would be a great conversion project!

[Itsgottobegreen]

Just get the PB-650. But get a diving weight belt, otherwise you might get blown away. :D

[Restrorob]

Come to think of it, just take the 5.0 12-cylinder and go all out, I mean you'd likely get a 1-acre lot FULL of leaves blown off before the engine gets a chance to revv all the way.

lol...this would be a great conversion project![/QUOTE]


Talk about conversation project, Had a customer buy a new push mower from us about 10yrs. ago. They complained about no power, I couldn't find anything wrong with it. Come to find out they had just bought a place that hasn't been mowed in years (grass over a foot tall) After the third time back complaining I snatched the 5hp briggs off and dropped a 12hp on then called them back up. He took one look at that mower and said there's no way I can push that thing across the yard, I said your right and handed him a business card for a commerical service and said have them mow it a couple times THEN you can maintain it. ;)

[soilman]

Does anyone know if the 260L is powerful enough to lift some dirt and sand, and little pieces of sod broken off from the lawn after edging the sidewalk (bits of grass with soil clinging to it, maybe 2 inches by 2 inches square) as well as leaves? I really am worried that I'll put the 403 on my back, and be stooped over from it, and have to take it off 45 minutes later.

Actually, that 20.7 pounds that echo specifies for the 403, must be the whole unit, including the tubing and the throttle trigger which is on the tube rather than on the backpack. So the pack itself probably ways only about 19 pounds. But once you put gas in the tank it weighs more. I have a (cheap) backpack and at anything more than about 12 pounds total it starts to get to me, after about an hour. But this is a cheap softpack without a balanced (high on the back) load, and lack of adequate padding and adequate strap adjustment clips. 12 pounds on a carefully designed fixed-load pack wouldn't be as bad as 12 pounds in my cheap soft backpack.

But again -- will that 260L (25cc) be adequate to blow away debris after I edge? Blow away sand? I don't need to blow it into the upper atmosphere. Just blow it into a pile that I can pick up.

[Mike's Yard Services]

Yes she can handle it fine, but definitely prefers the 260....but I work her pretty tough.........she is a great worker and not afraid of making some money....

Yes the 260 will handle it...

[iluvscag]

RedMax. :)

[soilman]

Thanks for the help Mike's Yard Services.

[soilman]

Yea. That PB403T is pretty heavy. Much better if I adjust the It is a bit of a struggle just to lift it up by the strap far enough to get that first strap over my shoulder.

Has anyone used a Ryobi RYO8570 (http://209.235.218.9/index.php/outdoor/tool/ry08570/) (apparently they make only one backpack model). 25cc and only 11.75 pounds. Echo's 25.4 cc model (http://www.echo-usa.com/prods_item.asp?Model=PB-260L%20ProLite%99&Category=POWERBLOWER) is 14.5 pounds.

I think it makes no sense to compare the mph rating, but you might compare the rating for cubic feet per minute (cfm) of the 2 units, assuming that ryobi's spec is measured at the houseing. 427 for the Echo. 420 for the the Ryobi.

Note that the Ryobi has a waist strap as well as shoulder straps. This can improve comfort quite a lot, as can the chest strap between the 2 shoulder straps, to adjust the distance between the 2 shoulder straps. With my narrow shoulders, I was concerned that the echo unit might slide off my shoulder. The Ryobi's chest strap would prevent this. Also, the Ryobi has lots of more breathing room against your back.

I also looked a 44 cc Stihl -- $20 more than the 44 cc echo, and 1 pound lighter. The echo had metal clips to hold the shoulder straps to the frame, at the bottom. The echo, despite its reputation for durability, had cheap looking plastic clips. The echo's back padding had some breathing channels, the Stihl did not. Just a flat piece of fabric-covered foam, covering a large area of your back. Could get warm on warm days.

I wonder what the Ryobi's sound level is. They don't publish a spec. Also, I wonder how good their vibration damping is. The Echo had very nice-looking mouunting springs, to separate the vibrating engine and blower from the plastic frame that contacts your back.

[ed2hess]

The Echo had very nice-looking mouunting springs, to separate the vibrating engine and blower from the plastic frame that contacts your back.

The nice looking mounting springs break fairly frequently, and the backrest is coming about in the third year. The Echo does have a waist strap that most people throw away immediately. We have several Echo units and like them but my favorite is still the BR420 Stihl. Our BR400 is 5 years old and we have had not tubes break, backrest, housing, it is pretty well made. Not sure about the the new 4-mix models durabiltiy.

[soilman]

ed2hess, I don't see either a waist strap or a chest strap (to adjust the shoulder straps) in either the advertising material, owner's manual, or parts list, for the Echo PB-403.

I would expect the fabric-covered foam backrest pad to come apart after a fairly short time. Even before the muffler. The reduction of contact area, in order to provide air channels, would seem to mean an increase in wear in the area that makes contact. The question I would have is what does it cost to replace it. Tho you could fairly easily substitute generic blocks of foam, inside a quickly homemade, sewed-together fabric sandwhich. It is attached with plastic push-pins (kind of like large plastic thumbtacks) that go thru the fabric into the plastic frame unit. The mounting springs should last a long time tho. Odd that they are breaking. They are rather hefty-looking. I would suspect that cheaper units may have some kind of foam of visco-elastic dampers, rather than metal coil-springs.

[soilman]

OK, looks like the newer versions (higher serial numbers) have metal spring mounts, while the older ones have "cushions" of unspecified material.

[soilman]

I found I could download a pdf of Stihl owners manual, however the owners manual does not have a parts list, and I don't see anywhere that I can download a parts list. One reason I like Echo is they provide their parts list on-line. I'm sure parts for either company's products will be easy to get. But I do like a parts list so when I go to the parts dealer, I can ask for the part by the correct name, which helps me sound like I know what I'm doing.

[soilman]

Alright, let's assume we can't compare cfm specs between different companies, as they don't measure them the same. And let's assume that for different models put out by the same company, we can use them as a comparison. Also, let's assume that the only cfm spec worth looking at is the spec for at the pipe end. Let's assume it doesn't matter how many cfm you have at the housing. And let's assume that the engines have about the same compression ratio, and that their models with more cc's have more torque and horsepower than models with lower cc's.

So comparing the cfm for various echo models, I've noticed that the 403 has a cfm of 380, and the 260 has a cfm of 375. Not as big difference as you might expect. The 403 has a bigger loss from housing to pipe, from 800 to 380. While the 260 goes from 427 to 375. The 260 has a more direct route from housing to blower to the connecting point of the straight pipe. On the 430, if you look at the picture, your can see that the air tube leaves the blower at the bottom left, goes over the top of the engine, in a circle, and then connects to the straight pipe, at the top right. In the 260, the air leaves the blower at the top left, and goes thru a curved tube a shorter distance, with less of a curve, before it gets to the straight pipe. In short, 260 has shorter distance from blower to pipe exit, and less curvature, and therefore less slowing down of the air on the way from blower to pipe exit. I figure that is why its 25.4 cc motor can put out only slightly less cfm than the 44 cc motor on the pb403. and we are comparing 20.7 pounds and 14.5 pounds, for the weight of the unit.

Now, looking at the handheld models, we see that the route from blower to ground is even shorter, and straighter. Take the 230LN. It's 22.8 cc engine gives you 365 cfm at the pipe. Starts with 410 cfm at the housing. Has even less of a loss than the pb260 (45 cfm as compared to 52). Yet the 230LN handheld costs about $60 less than the 260 backpack, and most important, it weighs only 10.8 pounds, as compared to 14.5 for the 260, and 20.7 for the 403. I'm thinking maybe the way to go is a handheld -- and buy a strap for it. I'm thinking the longer cleanup time is compensated for by the fact that I won't get worn out from a heavier model, and there is also less time spent putting the unit on my back and taking it off, and adjusting the straps. Plus there is less to wear out and replace. You won't need new padding for your back. You will still be able to use the unit if the strap wears out.

I think the Ryobi is not a good idea, because they don't publish a complete parts list of their engine, on their web site. The have a parts list -- but it just shows the backpark parts, the tubing parts, the engine mounts, and the air cleaner. No other engine parts! I'm concerned about the quality. They don't publish their sound level; tho Echo has ust recently stopped doing this too, except for their low noise models. Also -- it's made in China. While sometimes Chinese products are high quality, sometimes they aren't. And I'm not sure that parts availability will be as good in the US, as for the Echo, or any US assembled unit (such as the Stihl).

[Ramairfreak98ss]

Well if the Redmax 8000 is only 3.3lbs heavier than what i have now then im gettin one! damn, lol. Most are around 20lbs, if it feels heavy, lean forward more, 20lbs on your back isnt bad. What hurts the most is those crappy side blowers that suck either your pants into them or touch the engine on the other side of you.

[soilman]

"touch the engine on the other side of you"

OK, being that I'm right handed, and holding a handheld blowerin my right hand -- there is an engine on the left side of me? How did it get there?

[Ramairfreak98ss]

"touch the engine on the other side of you"

OK, being that I'm right handed, and holding a handheld blowerin my right hand -- there is an engine on the left side of me? How did it get there?


If your left handed... the engine touches you

If your right handed... the blower housing sucks up your pants etc

no way around it, handhelds are for the mom and pops blowing off their driveway 2x a year. Ive used a few and that was enough for me... years ago before even doing anything commercially.

[soilman]

OK, my blower arrived yesterday. I ordered an Echo PB-260L, at $255 including shipping. No sales tax. But they sent me a 260i. I was really pissed they sent me a different model than I ordered.

I called Echo and they said the 260i wasn't a current model.

However I downloaded the parts list from Echo, and could not find anything about it that was any different than the 260L, other than the fancier starter mechanism. All the other parts had the same part numbers. Even the carburator was the same (tho different serial numbers, of both models, had different carbs). Not to mention the entire short block, and the entire frame including the engine mounts. Alamia offered to take it back, and I wanted to send it back just to spite them, but I decided it would be an unproductive use of my time, to send it back and order another one from somewhere else (at a higher price).

The starter mechanism does weigh an extra 3/4 pound, but at 15.2 pounds total, I didn't have any problem picking it up and keeping it on my back for an hour. I had a problem doing that with the 403, which was 20.7 pounds I think. I found it to be a bit of a struggle even to just lift it into position to get the first strap over my shoulder.

Turns out that the i starter is handy. Why? You can start it while it is on your back. And very very easily. As long as it is still warm. This would seem to equate to less gasoline use, in these days of extraordinarily expensive gasoline. I have found myself turning the unit off if I have to walk all the way across a lawn, then re-starting it with one or 2 pulls when I get to the other side. The starter feels rather unusual, and qwirky, but it seems to work quite well.

Blows fairly adequately. Everything loose goes flying. Could use a little extra power to do things like loosen clumps of wet sand. It will blow small clumps of wet leaves, even loosen some of them if one leaves the blower on them for a few seconds.

I have been wearing ear protection, but I feel quite comfortable using it without ear protection for 15 minutes or so, and I am super-sensitive to excessive noise. The vibration damper seems to work very well for over an hour to prevent nerve-tingling and numbness. As does the damper on my echo string trimmer. This is in contrast to my cheap Craftsman (Poulan) string trimmer which used to give me tingling and numbness after only about 20 minutes of use. I seem to be very susceptible to this as I have a minor congential circulation (cardiac) defect, but I didn't get a trace of tingling from the blower.

I am having a bit of trouble getting the hang of moving things where I want them to go, but the throttle mechanism does work very very nicely. It has a very nice feel.

Yes, I put a drop of silicone spray (unlikely to damage plastic or rubber) at the mater surface of some of the snugger tubes, to make them easier to get on and off. And I put a drop of molybdenum disulfide anti-seize compound on the spark plug thread, to prevent the steel spark plug threads and aluminum cylinder head, from growing together. You often see this recommended in service manuals, but i've never seen a new engine where they actually did it themselves, at the factory. The screw the damn things in dry. Then when you take the spark plug out for the first time, after 2 years, the aluminum threads from the cylinder head end up stuck to the spark plug. You then have to re-tap the spark plug hole and put an thread-repair insert in it, and worry about chips of aluminum getting into the combustion chamber and causing rapid wear of piston ring, piston, and cylinder.

The only criticism I have is that the primer bulb is hard to find by eye. Very minor criticism, since once you know where it is, it isn't hard to feel for. Also, maybe they could have made the shoulder pads just a bit wider and better padded.

[soilman]

It occurred to me that it should not be particularly difficult to start a warm 260L with the regular starter, without removing the unit from my back. Just pull with your left hand behind your back, no? I guess it is a bit of a awkward position to reach that far back and pull. Esp if you are right-handed. But it still seems possible, no?

[True Cut Lawn Maintenance]

i just bought a 260 about a week and a half ago havent used it a lot yet but i like it so far i almost bought a stihl but i already have a pb 200 handheld and i liked echos features on the blowers over stihl

[soilman]

I was surprised to find that the echo seemed to be constructed just a tad more heavy duty than stihl. For example the way the straps were connected to the backpack frame. Doesn't mean the piston rings are better. But the straps were more obvious.