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DFW Area Landscaper
09-12-2005, 11:24 AM
Once they get it in their minds that the chemicals are making their dog sick, it has been my finding that the only option you have is to stop providing service immediately.

Typically they will call with an inquiry. They are putting two and two together. You made an app. The dog's allergies spiked. Or the dog threw up.

From now on, when I get this call, I will be trying to talk the customer into cancelling on that phone call.

You can talk till you are blue in the face about how safe these materials are to mammals. It is absolutely futile. I have found that what will happen once these conversations have started is that they are going to cancel the service anway. But what often times happens is, they will call you right after you do the next application madder than hell threatening law suites because their dog is sick again.

It ain't worth the risk and it sure as hell ain't worth the headaches.

If they are a tree hugging nature freak let them find someone else to treat their lawn.

Later,
Books Worst Enemy

sheshovel
09-12-2005, 12:03 PM
Just because someone does not like the effects chemicals are having on their pets health does not mean they are
"Tree hugging nature freaks"Who was it that taught you that these chemicals are safe for mammals?Was it the chemical company's scientists.?
Yes you can talk tell your blue in the face about how safe those chemicals are to mammals,but if my dog was fine,and became sick after you applied chemicals to my yard and threw-up and that had happened twice....you can bet I am not going to believe you and I am going to cancel.Because it is obvious that the chemicals you are applying ARE making my dog sick regardless of what you have been told and have told me.
Now if you posted this as bait..there you go I bit.

Runner
09-12-2005, 12:37 PM
Keep in mind...people's dogs aren't worth jack squat most of the time. They don't water them all the time, they leave them out, they let them run or just leave them tied up all time,...etc.. UNTIL, something happens to them regarding chemicals...then their dog is suddenly worth $10,000.

DFW Area Landscaper
09-12-2005, 01:00 PM
These materials are safe to mammals when applied as indicated on the label. If you pour a few ounces of concentrate into the dog's water bowl everyday, you're probably gonna see problems. But if these materials were causing wide spread problems for mammals they wouldn't be available for purchase, even with a license.

I have had customers accuse me of making their dog sick with fertilizer, when we didn't even spot treat any weeds in the lawn.

As I mentioned earlier, if someone has it in their minds that the chemicals are making their dog sick, get them off the schedule immediately. They will cause problems later on and they will cancel anyway. Being threatened with law suites is not a pleasant experience, even with insurance as a safety net.

Since I've been in the business I have been threatened with law suites five times. Once was because I threatened a dead beat with a lien. The other four times were all because of dogs and my god-aweful chemicals.

It's only a matter of time til one of these tree hugging nature freaks actually lawyers up on me because Fido threw up on the bed spread within two weeks of an application.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

lawnservice
09-12-2005, 05:43 PM
DFW has a valid point.
The conception of folks is that their pet is being poisoned, and when they begin to believe that....there's no tellin em any thing different.

Cancelation might be the only solution. BUT the problem with that is now those folks are tellin all their neighbors and friends what 'happened' to their dog because of you (us). Even if their pet gets ill again 2 years later they will still think its because of that time the pet was poisoned by the lawn guy.

heres my solution. we offer to leave a portion of lawn untreated. might be the entire back lawn or just a 10 foot wide path along the dog run. of course we put them on a call ahead list to let them know we'll be out there tomorrow so they can secure the pet. we are gonna try all we can to keep this customer.
(now, for any customer who threatens a law suit....for any reason....is an automatic cancel. who has time for that nonsense?
Assuming all the safty stuff was covered at time of sale; ie.- posting signs, stay off until dry, and so on, these dog problems are few and far between

bobbygedd
09-12-2005, 06:33 PM
how are these chemicals safe to mammels? interesting...if they are safe, why am i required to wear the proper safety attire? if they are safe, why was my workmans comp going to be double, if i allowed my employees to apply chemicals? if you believe they are safe, would you give your children a spreader, a round of each that you apply during the year, and tell them to have a ball with it?

NattyLawn
09-12-2005, 07:01 PM
Finally, a good post by bobbyg....that i have read anyway :)

DFW Area Landscaper
09-12-2005, 08:22 PM
Bobbygedd,

If the materials you are applying are not safe for mammals, then what do you tell your customers when they ask about these materials and their dog?

Are you telling me you've never had a customer call you complaining that their dog got sick within a few days of an application?

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

bobbygedd
09-12-2005, 09:10 PM
i don't give them my opinion. i tell them that the state of new jersey requires me, to advise them, to stay off the lawn for 72 hours. that's it. yea, i got a call about a sick dog before. if they didn't choose to decline the safety data information, then they have that, and i provide them with my record of aplication. if they did decline the safety data information, then i give them that, plus a record of my aplication. i don't give two sh!ts if thier dog gets sick, or drops dead for that matter, as long as i was within the guidelines of the law.

jajwrigh
09-12-2005, 09:40 PM
how are these chemicals safe to mammels? interesting...if they are safe, why am i required to wear the proper safety attire? if they are safe, why was my workmans comp going to be double, if i allowed my employees to apply chemicals? if you believe they are safe, would you give your children a spreader, a round of each that you apply during the year, and tell them to have a ball with it?

You can't argue much with any of the points he made here! :alien:

dwc
09-13-2005, 12:48 AM
When I see the man that drives the big truck full of overpriced gasoline filling the tanks at the station, he wears gloves. When I get out and pump my truck full, I don't wear gloves. It all depends on your level of exposure. That is the reason for PPE's. To Joe Blow that walks across the lawn compared to us that are out there in it all day long, our exposure is much much higher. Tylenol won't kill you if you take a couple, but try half the bottle and see what happens. I bet most people on here still take it though.
I would not let my kid push around my 21" lawn mower until he is old enough, but I push it around every day and I consider it safe when used properly.
Anything CAN be dangerous if not used PROPERLY. Thats why these companies have to spend millions of dollars on testing and labels before they can release something to the public.

The public has been programmed that ALL chemicals are bad. Thats why they immediately blame anyone who has been using chemicals for their dogs or whatever. The old days of ddt and chlordane are gone, but people are still programmed. They would freak out if they only knew how many chemicals (not just lawn) they consume everyday!

ant
09-13-2005, 06:51 AM
good topic.

GrazerZ
09-13-2005, 09:28 AM
I also belive that public peception is a problem. I have sprayed for weeds on commercial propertys where the people there insist on standing outside where I'm spraying to smoke. Then when they go back inside tell thier boss that they are getting sick from my chems and they need to go home early. Hello! :angry:
These people poison themselves over and over every day with thier little cancer sticks, but my weed apps are causing their allergies to act up. Give me a break.
I do belive that there are folks who are very chemically sensitive. I don't usally worry about them because they never call me to do apps. Like Bobby I offer them saftey materials and explain the state guidelines. But it never fails that someone decides to come out and ask a question with barefeet and slippers on on the lawn I just sprayed. :angry:

LwnmwrMan22
09-13-2005, 04:13 PM
When I see the man that drives the big truck full of overpriced gasoline filling the tanks at the station, he wears gloves. When I get out and pump my truck full, I don't wear gloves. It all depends on your level of exposure. That is the reason for PPE's. To Joe Blow that walks across the lawn compared to us that are out there in it all day long, our exposure is much much higher. Tylenol won't kill you if you take a couple, but try half the bottle and see what happens. I bet most people on here still take it though.
I would not let my kid push around my 21" lawn mower until he is old enough, but I push it around every day and I consider it safe when used properly.
Anything CAN be dangerous if not used PROPERLY. Thats why these companies have to spend millions of dollars on testing and labels before they can release something to the public.

The public has been programmed that ALL chemicals are bad. Thats why they immediately blame anyone who has been using chemicals for their dogs or whatever. The old days of ddt and chlordane are gone, but people are still programmed. They would freak out if they only knew how many chemicals (not just lawn) they consume everyday!


About the gas delivery trucks, the biggest reason that they're wearing the gloves is so they don't get gas all over their hands and smell like gas the rest of the day. My father hauled gas for 20 years.

Of course the rest of your post is dead on though.

Shoot, beer and hamburgers will kill you if you ingest enough of them.

sheshovel
09-14-2005, 10:15 PM
These chemicals are used to kill living things.Kill weeds,kill bugs ,whatever...if a chemical is made to kill living things it can't be safe for living things it is as simple as that.Dry or wet.
And if your lawn is getting sprayed by this chemical that kills living things over and over,the lawn and any and all biological processes that keep bad bugs and good bugs in balance are destroyed.
So what you end up with is a chemically dependent lawn.
If a lawn is not healthy enough to crowd out weeds then something else is wrong.
Just spraying to kill the weeds over and over does not fix the overall underlying problems the lawn has.
The minute you stop applications everything goes to sh... because there are no natural resistance built up,no good bugs left to eat the bad and you have a lawn that is weak and indefensible to infestations and disease.
Also you know what?I am a tree hugging freak.
ya know why?
Cuz without trees neither I nor you or anyone would be alive today.Without trees we are all dead in the water period.Everything on this earth including us depends upon green living things..upon plants and trees for our very life and the air you breath every day.
So the next time you want to call somebody a tree hugging freak...Think about how much you and all of us depend on trees before you open your mouth.

GrazerZ
09-14-2005, 10:29 PM
IMP thats all I'll say there laddy. Oh, and I like my apples without spots and maggots. :)

DFW Area Landscaper
09-15-2005, 04:55 PM
SheShovel,

There is nothing natural about a nice green, healthy, weed free bermuda lawn. They simply do not exist in nature.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

dwc
09-15-2005, 10:43 PM
the minute that a contractor goes in and builds a house, the "biological process" is messed up.
Many people I know take vitamins, etc to help their body's be healthier. Does this mess up the body's biological process?

When Mr. & Mrs. Jones call me to turn their yard around and make it beautiful, they don't want to hear how if we let everything be "natural" it will be beautiful. Nope, they want it mowed weekly, weed control, fert, bug control, and anything else it could need. Why? Because that's what makes a beautiful yard!
Please post a picture of a beautiful, healthy, weedfree natural yard.

Same thing if they call me up and tell me fleas and ticks are carrying their dog off. At that point, they do not want to hear how if I turn out 100 guineas in their yard they will eat the ticks and fleas. They want to see action out the end of that spray gun.

Most every LCO and PMP I know care very much about nature and do not want to see it harmed. Nature is how we make out living and thats why we care enough to go get a license and learn the proper ways to do applications. At every CEU meeting I go to anymore, we get to sit and listen to the Dept. of Ag people tell us how it is the HOMEOWNER that is doing the damage to the environment, not the licensed professional.

sheshovel
09-19-2005, 02:27 AM
With this I agree,there is no such thing as a beautiful lawn without it being chemically dependent.

GreenUtah
09-19-2005, 02:50 PM
OK, I was going to pass on this thread, but I can't resist, so here goes. Dog issues and spraying has become a urban folklore issue for many companies. Like most urban legends, if you'd like to think of it as that, it has it's base in a bit of reality. A study was published back in the 70s that pointed a finger at lawn care apps and dog deaths where lawn care was regularly done. However, the study was impossibley flawed as they took no account in for age of dogs, diet and exercise nor any other environmental condition, it was simply do you have your lawn sprayed and did you have an animal die in a period thereafter. It was widely dismissed as junk science, yet continues to survive to this day. When the issue has come up with clients over the years(and it has many times) we explain this issue, remind them that we are dealing with living things(their turf and landscape) and are creating a balanced environment for those things to live and thrive, outside of their natural area. If the environment was poisoned, out of balance, everything would suffer. Automatically, when signing up res customers, we would ask two questions, do you have a dog or a locked gate, if the answer was yes to either, they got a courtesy call the night before to keep the dog in and unlock the gate for the technician. Flag and leave behinds stating safe re-entry points eliminated any and all further discussion. Yes, we wear gloves and boots while we handle wet, raw materials to limit our exposure. Would I let my children play on a lawn after the dry down period. Absolutely. Would I let a farm animal graze on it before the water and cut cycles had passed? Absolutely not. Common sense and a little info to your customer goes a long way. As far as tree huggers go, count me as one. Count me as the kind of tree hugger that realizes every step and breathe man takes is altering the environment and in that respect, no tool that we have at our disposal to counteract our footprint is unworthy of use, used properly.