Hedge Trimming Startup

[YodaMouse]

I have recently--2 months ago--started a lawn care service, exclusively specialized in bush and hedge trimming. I service a closed community of over 600 homes, (50+ community of rich, bored people,) and currently have about 20 homes on my monthly route. Now the thing is, the lawn guy who cuts the grass doesn't want to do bush and hedge trimming, so he's pretty much ready to give me up to 250 houses from his route.

I make only $10 to $15 per house, but since they're lined up like ducks in a row, I can usually do about 2 per hour. (I spent seven years as a programmer so I'm sure that will increase as I get conditioned.)

The lawncare guy says that by me doing the hedge trimming I make his service look good, so he is really pushing me to do as many as possible.

Long story short, here's my questions:

1. This seems too good to be true. Should I be worried?
2. He insist on billing clients himself, and paying me monthly. So far he's been good, but can I rely on that--is this normal?
3. Am I over specializing here? Should I do mowing to? I've allready dropped $4,000 for Stihl trimmers, trailer, etc...

Anyhow, sorry for the long monologue. I know the questions may seem redundant, but I'm trying to get some prespective... I can't really ask the guy, "are you honest?"

Thanks

[1MajorTom]

I make only $10 to $15 per house, but since they're lined up like ducks in a row, I can usually do about 2 per hour. (I spent seven years as a programmer so I'm sure that will increase as I get conditioned.)

1. This seems too good to be true. Should I be worried?
2. He insist on billing clients himself, and paying me monthly. So far he's been good, but can I rely on that--is this normal?


To put it bluntly, he won't quit paying you, he has found a sucker to do his hedge trimming dirt cheap. He is billing those customers at a much higher rate than what you are actually getting... I guarantee you he is making MORE money on those customers than you are, and he aint lifting a finger!! and what about the clippings, do you ever have to haul anything away?

I don't dig your set up with that guy at all, not at all. Ditch him and find your own customers.

[YodaMouse]

Wow, thanks for the quick reply!

I do in fact haul away the clippings, which costs me about $15 per day, including dump fee and gas for the truck. (About 700 lbs/day.)

My next question then is how much I should charge for a 30 minute trimming/cleanup if I'm getting my own accounts? What's a realistic industry standard?

And you're absolutely right. I don't dig the setup either, but so far I've gone along with it because often I can make $120 a day. Should I be making more?

Lastly, should I be branching out to lawn mowing too?

I really appreciate your help! Thanks.

[hole in one lco]

you can do what you wont but you should be making 40. to 80.0 and hour. you should get 120 a job and doing 6 a day. If you keep you rates at 15.0 you'll get all the work in the world.

[YodaMouse]

So I guess charging people $50 an hour is ralistic? Wow... I'm so clueless!

LOL... So I guess I really am a sucker!! That's okay though, if I never made mistakes, life would be boring.

I guess I'll stick to this untill I get my own accounts, then I'm going to dump him like a bad rash on prom night. At least now I have an idea how much I should charge people.

Thanks guys!

[QualityLawnCare4u]

I agree with Jodi on this one, the guy is making money and you are doing the HARD work. Shrubs are a lot harder to do than mowing. I am trying to drop all my shrubs and I will not even give anymore estimates because my area is real cheap, want it done for 5 bucks an hour. Only shrubs I do are my full time clients and no more one timers at all. I have wasted so much time giving est. decided it is one thing I will drop. If it was worth it I would go with shrub only since nobody likes to do them here either. I have had many calls from folks who have a lco mowing but he does not do shrubs and want me to do it, but do not want to give me their yard work. Did not take me long to learn why other lco did not do them, cheap azzes.

[ArizPestWeed]

you spent $4,000 so you could make $15 an hour ?
You crazy ?

Just ask others what they are paying for the service and offer a little extra to get the job .

Better yet , goto work for someone else , landscape maintenence , to leard all about the business .
I did it on my own and would not recomend it , takes toooo long and the mistakes , well.

http://www.pest-weed-free.com/

[Soupy]

Yea, this guy is making a killing. He should make a decent profit since they are his jobs. The bottom line is, he might not want you if you raise to much, especially if you are doing other jobs cheaper then you want to charge him. If you go up on him then you need to go up even further on your own clientèle.

I charge $60/hr on the low end with a $60 minimum even if it's one little bush. Normally I charge by the job which brings in a lot more. Like yesterday he did a $300 job that took 3 hours (he did others, that's just one example). I have done as good as $120/hr. Customers can be overwhelmed at the thought of doing hedge trimming. This is why it is best to charge by the job. If the shrubs/bushes look all grown together and a complete mess you can normally go higher because the job looks a lot harder then it really is. We don't market this service outside our mowing customers, but occasionally get a neighbor or two. I guess if you are going for quantity then you will have to offer a lower price.

As for as branching out, that is up to you. It really depends on how much time you have to offer other services. As for mowing, I worked 8 hours today by myself and grossed $575. Aerations would be a great service to think about.

Is this guy sending you a 1099 at the end of the year?

[topsites]

you can do what you wont but you should be making 40. to 80.0 and hour. you should get 120 a job and doing 6 a day. If you keep you rates at 15.0 you'll get all the work in the world.

I'm with it here, I charge in the vicinity of $60 / hour for hedge trimming BUT I've been doing it for 4 years and can clip a bush quick... Still, it's not something I do full time, only maybe a dozen times a year, so it shouldn't take you long to get up to speed.

Until you get up to speed, I would think you can easily get $30/hour and should be able to get up to 35 then 40, you'll likely get stuck at $45 for a bit but really within no time you should have it down pat, seeing how you're specializing, you could later charge MORE for making fancy designs, etc...

By the way, congrats on the specializing, I always feel the more of ONE thing you do, the faster you'll become an expert in your own field.

[YodaMouse]

Thank you everyone, you've given me a lot to think about.

Really the reason I got into this business is because here in central Florida there is a spectacular housing boom. Gated communities and multi-million dollar homes are going up in record time. The county is literally building four lane roads out in the forest, in the middle of nowhere, because there are developers lined up to build entire communities.

So now I'm just trying to figure out how to grab all the money floating out there. Work smart, not hard I guess.

By the way, I have a pretty broken down Chevy 1500. Have you guys found that it's harder to be viewed as a serious lawn service because of your vehicle and equipment? Could I be getting screwed because my truck is canary yellow and looks like it was used as a bomb for Iraq?

[QualityLawnCare4u]

Yea, this guy is making a killing. He should make a decent profit since they are his jobs. The bottom line is, he might not want you if you raise to much, especially if you are doing other jobs cheaper then you want to charge him. If you go up on him then you need to go up even further on your own clientèle.

I charge $60/hr on the low end with a $60 minimum even if it's one little bush. Normally I charge by the job which brings in a lot more. Like yesterday he did a $300 job that took 3 hours (he did others, that's just one example). I have done as good as $120/hr. Customers can be overwhelmed at the thought of doing hedge trimming. This is why it is best to charge by the job. If the shrubs/bushes look all grown together and a complete mess you can normally go higher because the job looks a lot harder then it really is. We don't market this service outside our mowing customers, but occasionally get a neighbor or two. I guess if you are going for quantity then you will have to offer a lower price.

As for as branching out, that is up to you. It really depends on how much time you have to offer other services. As for mowing, I worked 8 hours today by myself and grossed $575. Aerations would be a great service to think about.

Is this guy sending you a 1099 at the end of the year?

Sixty dollars and hour!! LOL :D That is what the going rate is here for ALL DAY of shrub trimming! Thats why I dont do it anymore. I wished I could get 30 a hour here but client would have to have medical help with these prices!

[topsites]

Sixty dollars and hour!! LOL :D That is what the going rate is here for ALL DAY of shrub trimming! Thats why I dont do it anymore. I wished I could get 30 a hour here but client would have to have medical help with these prices!

LOL I was stuck at 30-45 for a long time myself but then I don't do trimming but every so often so it took longer to figure it out... Basically, to get $60/hour what I ended up doing is getting more work done in less time so in the end I might only get 30 or 40 dollars for a row of hedges JUST like the next guy but then instead of it taking an hour if I can get it all done in 30-40 minutes, that's $60/hour...
What I did is the old sacrifice of quality for speed and in the end I was really surprised how fast I can go without much loss of quality at all. Every once in a blue moon I might take off a bit too much or the odd corner gets sheared but I feel that it happened just as much before and in both cases its rare...

[ArizPestWeed]

when I was doing landscape maint. I was doing it by the job, , making $40 to over a $100 an hour

[NEPSJay]

[QUOTE=I make only $10 to $15 per house[/QUOTE]

Not to be rude but thats totally assanine. Your times gotta be worth way more than that

[JKOOPERS]

i have never done a residential for less than $100 for trimming shrubs in about a hour. i am talking about shrubs in front and back of the house.

[YodaMouse]

Uh, I think I may have phrased things incorrectly. I meant that I get $10 to $15 per house. (Mostly $15) We're talking about a gated community with houses piled on top of each other. When the houses are lined up like ducks in a row, often I can get 4 or 5 done in an hour. But realistically I do about 2 an hour reliably. So technically I'm making $30 / hour.

From my prespective, the pay is sufficient--especially since I've been in this business only since June. What worries me is relying on someone else bill my customers. It feels like the guy is the owner of the route, not me.

Also what worries me is that I really am not allowed to compete with the lawn guys in the community, that is our informal agreement. This forces me to over-specialize in hedge trimming. I'm not sure if this is a wise business approach.

Honestly, I'm just trying to decide on a long term direction to take. For now the stuff I'm doing pays the bills. Now I have to figure out how to prosper!

[Soupy]

[QUOTE=YodaMouse]From my prespective, the pay is sufficient--especially since I've been in this business only since June. What worries me is relying on someone else bill my customers. It feels like the guy is the owner of the route, not me.QUOTE]


They are not your customers, they are his customers and he is only sub contracting you to perform the work. There isn't anything unusual about this.

[LB1234]

Do you travel to jersey?

I'll pay you $15/hr to work for me...

[LawnBrother]

Ok, YodaMouse, by now you know what's going on with this guy and how much money he is making off of you, so I won't comment on any of that. By now, though, you're probably thinking, "what should I do now?" Here is what I am thinking. You said that this guy does not want to do hedge trimming any more. Call him out. Explain to him that you know what's going on and offer to buy him out in some way. Ask him to tell you how much he is charging, and to show you his invoices, then make him an offer, either by continuing to sub for a FAIR rate(in other words, more favorable to YOU than to HIM, since he isn't doing any of the work anyway), or to buy out the accounts COMPLETELY in the form of contracts. Just my thoughts on the matter :) , sound like a good idea, guys? Comments please.....

[LawnBrother]

And also, regarding your informal agreement to not compete with the other LCOs, why would you agree to that? I guess I can sort of understand, because I used to live in a gated community, and wouldn't have wanted to step on any toes in a small community where everyone knows everyone etc. That being said, what other services are offered by these other LCOs? Do something they don't do. For example: instead of focusing on hedge trimming alone, why not think about including hedge trimming as part of a GARDENING service. (planting flowers, mulching, maintaining beds and foliage, etc.) Maybe after keeping their property in such immaculate condition, they would want you to go ahead and mow their grass while you are at it. You could sell service packages for maitinence, and price per job for individual items like flowers and mulch, etc. In a well to do private community (in Florida, where things grow basically all year), this might be a profitable business. And technically you wouldn't be competing with the lawn guys, right? Just an idea! Good luck in any case!

[Soupy]

Ok, YodaMouse, by now you know what's going on with this guy and how much money he is making off of you, so I won't comment on any of that. By now, though, you're probably thinking, "what should I do now?" Here is what I am thinking. You said that this guy does not want to do hedge trimming any more. Call him out. Explain to him that you know what's going on and offer to buy him out in some way. Ask him to tell you how much he is charging, and to show you his invoices, then make him an offer, either by continuing to sub for a FAIR rate(in other words, more favorable to YOU than to HIM, since he isn't doing any of the work anyway), or to buy out the accounts COMPLETELY in the form of contracts. Just my thoughts on the matter :) , sound like a good idea, guys? Comments please.....

I bet this guy wants to keep his hedge trimming, but just see's an opportunity to sub the work out and still make money. Calling him out might just get him back to doing them himself, or hiring someone else. The bottom line is, don't worry about what the other guy is making. Worry about what you need to make it worth your while and leave it at that. I wouldn't be acting like this guy owes you anything because he doesn't.

Some of you guys act like you never heard of sub contracting. I think $30/hr is fair considering you do not have to do anything but supply tools and labor. Once you are in the business for awhile you will learn that this guy isn't just sitting back doing nothing.

I do think you need to go up to at least $45/hr for customers you have to maintain on your own. This extra $15 will cover cost to obtain job, and office work etc. that this other guy is providing for you now.

[YodaMouse]

Thanks for all the advice so far... It's given me prespective. I've decided to stick with the guy for now. However while I'm doing my route with him I'm going to dedicate one day a week scouting new accounts. I figure I should get somewhere eventually... This way I don't risk my steady income and have time to build up a better revenue source.

On a side note, our friendly weather system--hurricane Rita--has blessed me with 3 hours of work in the soaking rain. While cursing my choice of occupation I wondered what lawn service guys do up in places like Montana and Vermont. I mean damn, it must get twenty below in the winters. Plus you've got to deal with the freezing rain and sleet in the fall.

But then again, I guess you don't cut much grass with a foot of snow on your lawn...

[ArizPestWeed]

You do 2 homes , about , in one hour sometimes more .
The actual trimming is about 10% of the time and clean up is the other 90% .
I hated clean up , I had hispanics doing mine

[YodaMouse]

I've followed people's advice and have started charging people much higher prices. And you know what? They're paying it! What I used to charge $15 for I now charge about $45. (The guy who's giving me the people on his route is still getting them at $15 a pop, but I'm going to phase him out as soon as I have a steady income.) People aren't even blinking when I hand them the invoice... Isn't it cool? payup

I'm really amazed at how well I've done in the short time I've been in this business. I've pulled in $700 last week and I'm not even really working full time. I've tried so many businesses in the past--and failed so miserably--that I'm still holding my breath, waiting for disaster to strike. (CIA operatives are loading up their silenced MP5's, standing outside my door and laughing hysterically into their comm sets.) It feels weird to be making money without going insane with worry.

I really have to thank everyone on this site, you've helped me immensely. I would still be working for $10 per hour if I hadn't talked to you guys.


Cheers!

Andy

[brucec32]

Can you drive to Atlanta? I can give you all the $15 shrub trimming jobs you can handle! : )

You will grow old very fast if all you do all day is trim shrubs.

[YodaMouse]

Bruce,

No problem, as long as the trimming jobs are all in the same general location and they don't involve weeding or more than 20 minutes of work.

I literally go down a block and hit four or five houses in a row. Spruce creek, the gated community I do jobs in, has house piled on top of each other.

But yeah, if I'm making $45 to $60 an hour, I'll pack up tonight and come do trimming for you. I'm 27 years old and have plenty of energy!!! :waving:

Cheers,

Andy