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bobbygedd
09-18-2005, 11:01 AM
i have a client, he owns 2 homes, i do them myself, on sunday. for 5-6 yrs, i've been doing his-grasscutting, shrub trimming, and fall leaves. he asked for a price last year on landscaping for one of the houses. i quoted it. he said too much$$$. fine. TODAY, i go to mow, the entire place has been landscaped. it was easily 6-8 grand worth of work (my prices). he hired someone else to do it. it looks like crap, but, oh well. does this end the relationship? my initial instinct was to knock on the door, and lay into him. i stopped, took a deep breath and said, "hey, i'm getting $40 a week to mow the lawn, it takes me less than 25 minutes solo. this shouldn't change anything." then, i shot grass clippings into his new mulch when i cut the grass, forgot to blow off the sidewalks, skipped the weedwacking, and went on my way. how does him hiring out effect your relationship? or does it, at all?

mike48114
09-18-2005, 11:07 AM
Unless this guy is your brother or cousin, let it go. Business is business! This guy made a business decision, so dont take it personal. Why loose the business he is giving you as a result of something he did not give you? Ask yourself why he did not give you the landscaping. What can you do next time to better your chances of landing the landscape project for a mowing customer? Take Care!

Ric
09-18-2005, 11:25 AM
No BooBy it wouldn't. He gave you a shot and you couldn't sell him.

But Knowing how up tight and insecure you are. I would suggest you quit him before you bring out the Shovel at some later date.

MOturkey
09-18-2005, 11:38 AM
Bobby, now you are seeing the forest, in spite of the trees. The guy gave you a chance to bid. He obviously got someone else to do the work for less money, even if it isn't the same quality as yours.

You are still making money mowing for him, and have in the past, so what has changed? If you were a mowing operation only, and didn't offer landscaping services, you'd be as happy as a pig in feces. So, what's the difference?

The only thing I'd do different, is I WOULDN'T blow clippings in the mulch bed, and I WOUlDN'T skip trimming. In fact, I'd probably have taken extra care when doing so, because, obviously, you are expendable. If he can find another landscaper, I've no doubt he can find another weedwhacker also.

MOJO111
09-18-2005, 11:50 AM
, i shot grass clippings into his new mulch when i cut the grass, forgot to blow off the sidewalks, skipped the weedwacking, and went on my way. how does him hiring out effect your relationship? or does it, at all?


I guess you'll find out when he hires himself a new lawn boy ;)

olderthandirt
09-18-2005, 01:09 PM
I'd probably have taken extra care when doing so, because, obviously, you are expendable. If he can find another landscaper, I've no doubt he can find another weedwhacker also.

Yes you are expendable ! And he just showed you how fast he will replace you when he can get a cheaper price. I see the writing on the wall now.

git er done landscaping
09-18-2005, 01:22 PM
bob. me thinks the "other guy's" work looks like crap only in your eyes because you didnt do it. obviously the home owner is happy with it. so just mow and be happy.

jtrice11
09-18-2005, 01:36 PM
i have a client, he owns 2 homes, i do them myself, on sunday. for 5-6 yrs, i've been doing his-grasscutting, shrub trimming, and fall leaves. he asked for a price last year on landscaping for one of the houses. i quoted it. he said too much$$$. fine. TODAY, i go to mow, the entire place has been landscaped. it was easily 6-8 grand worth of work (my prices). he hired someone else to do it. it looks like crap, but, oh well. does this end the relationship? my initial instinct was to knock on the door, and lay into him. i stopped, took a deep breath and said, "hey, i'm getting $40 a week to mow the lawn, it takes me less than 25 minutes solo. this shouldn't change anything." then, i shot grass clippings into his new mulch when i cut the grass, forgot to blow off the sidewalks, skipped the weedwacking, and went on my way. how does him hiring out effect your relationship? or does it, at all?

Hey, he's a consumer, he's got a right to shop around and find the best deal. If its a crappy job, so what. That doesn't concern you.

topsites
09-18-2005, 02:19 PM
Yes you are expendable ! And he just showed you how fast he will replace you when he can get a cheaper price. I see the writing on the wall now.

It is funny but it happens to me on a regular if not too frequent basis, a customer hires someone else to do something, sometimes they never even bother to ask me. The ONLY time it pisses me off fairly for sure is when they already agreed to have me do it THEN they get someone else...
But ultimately this is their choice and decision, they are under NO obligation to do anything different BUT I have noticed my own frustration tends to be higher when I'm barely getting paid for the grass-cutting AND my frustration tends to be fairly nil when the grass-cutting is profitable... Weird, but I've taken this in and made a note to myself so that now when it happens AND I feel frustrated, it is likely a sign to me that the price I get for my work is LIKELY too low (and usually, it is, as I'm finding out).
Far as whether the price of the grass-cut has anything to do with them calling someone else or not, I find it's about 50-50, despite a low price OR a high price on the grass-cutting, some do it and some don't.
Yeah, so price the grass-cutting right and it frustrates me a lot less when they do it :)

Far as doing a shoddy job, man I try REAL hard not to take out my anger on a customer... Sometimes I'm so mad I just keep right on driving then come back 3-4 days later after I'm cooled off... Thing is, I never believed in running equipment out of spite, that to me always seems like such a waste to take out my anger while wasting fuel and possibly damaging the equipment, nevermind their yard, and nothing is learned here, nothing will change, they don't SEE your message and IF they do, omg... This is one instance where I wouldn't blame someone for suing.
Now if it makes me real mad and I'm still too hot 3-4 days later, then it can happen I just never return and the job doesn't get done... Sucks but at least there's not that problem of trying to get PAID for nothing, too.
Thou I will say I am glad guys like you exist because every once in a blue moon I get a customer who had an Lco do what you did, and this is a warning sign of a possible pita (thou, to be sure, it could also be a hothead Lco).

Howie's Lawn Care
09-18-2005, 02:20 PM
Bobby,
Even you would go with someone else on something if it were $1000.00 or even $500.00 less. If you're talking $7,000, $500.00 - $1000.00 would make a big enough difference in price. You may have someone lay carpet in your house and they charge a reasonable price. Now say you want to tile your kitchen and it will be $2100.00 from the carpet layers and $1750.00 from the tile business (i dunno). I think you will go with the tile business unless you have a real good relationship with the carpet people. It's not like you fix his car and installed his windows. You just mow his yard. You're being somewhat of a dick about it, but he should have talked with you before hand. Still, $40.00 in 25 minutes, why would you drop in and do less work. It must take you about 5 or 6 minutes to do trimming and blowing. Wait, what about edging?

olderthandirt
09-18-2005, 02:29 PM
Bobby,
Even you would go with someone else on something if it were $1000.00 or even $500.00 less. If you're talking $7,000, $500.00 - $1000.00 would make a big enough difference in price. You may have someone lay carpet in your house and they charge a reasonable price. Now say you want to tile your kitchen and it will be $2100.00 from the carpet layers and $1750.00 from the tile business (i dunno). I think you will go with the tile business unless you have a real good relationship with the carpet people. It's not like you fix his car and installed his windows. You just mow his yard. You're being somewhat of a dick about it, but he should have talked with you before hand. Still, $40.00 in 25 minutes, why would you drop in and do less work. It must take you about 5 or 6 minutes to do trimming and blowing. Wait, what about edging?

Not the same comparison------------ Those are 1 time services mowing is recurring service. If they did not want to go with Bob because of the cost then they will not be keeping him when they can find someone that can do the same quality for a cheaper price. Plus would you be a happy camper knowing that you worked your azz off for a customer and he throws you the crumbs while another new guy gets the whole loaf? I stand by my earlier statement, I see a parting of ways

jpp
09-18-2005, 02:38 PM
"then, i shot grass clippings into his new mulch when i cut the grass, forgot to blow off the sidewalks, skipped the weedwacking, and went on my way. how does him hiring out effect your relationship? or does it, at all?"


Bobby if you did this then what are your trying to do get yourself fired? I don't think you did this I think you were just venting. If you did do this then you need a new line of work. Just because a customer can get a cheaper price doesn't mean that they do not like your work. It just means they are watching their money.Nothing wrong with that. As long as you keep them for a regular lawn customer you should be happy. What did this teach your customer? Don't mess with the almighty bobby.

JP

sheshovel
09-18-2005, 02:44 PM
Mabey it wasent the price,mabey he got the impression you aren't a Landscaper .I woulden't give a client a bid without at least trying to find out what kind of money they were thinking about for a budget on the project.6 to 8 grand?sounds real cheap for two housed 3 or 4 grand each.
Concider your self lucky BobbyG you probably would have screwed yourself on those jobs with those prices(saying this not knowing the size of the jobs only)3 or 4 grand per house does not buy a whole lotta landscaping nowadays. :D

bobbygedd
09-18-2005, 03:07 PM
#1- a client cannot "fire me" , because , they do not employ me. they may, at anytime, in writing, CANCEL SERVICE. #2- sheshovel, 6 grand buys alot of landscaping, when there is no brick/stone/wall work involved. we are talking clearing brush, installing foundation size shrubbery, and mulch. this job was pitifully done. it's a huge corner lot, and he used 1-3 gallon container plants. they look like i will look, laying next to you, when i visit you in feb

olderthandirt
09-18-2005, 03:13 PM
he used 1-3 gallon container plants. they look like i will look, laying next to you, when i visit you in feb

Small , cheap and out of place :D



Sorry could not resist that on BG

bobbygedd
09-18-2005, 03:19 PM
well, i was thinking more like a baby lion, laying next to his mommy. but, u hit it right on the nose

Fantasy Lawns
09-18-2005, 03:23 PM
a business owner in this service does NOT work on Sundays

a lawnboy does

topsites
09-18-2005, 03:27 PM
#1- a client cannot "fire me" , because , they do not employ me. they may, at anytime, in writing, CANCEL SERVICE. #2- sheshovel, 6 grand buys alot of landscaping, when there is no brick/stone/wall work involved. we are talking clearing brush, installing foundation size shrubbery, and mulch. this job was pitifully done. it's a huge corner lot, and he used 1-3 gallon container plants. they look like i will look, laying next to you, when i visit you in feb

omfg what's the difference between cancelling service and firing, LOL! You're out of work either way, right? Yeah...

But techically speaking no, they do not employ us, hence they can not fire us. Still, it's all the same thing in the end, sorta. The other difference is when someone DOES fire me (or cancel service, whatever), even thou I'm out ONE customer, I'm certainly not out of work... One does have to watch for it becoming a trend, to be sure.

Ric
09-18-2005, 03:39 PM
BooBy

I had a Customer that went out for bids to replace or top dress her Rock planter beds. My bid was $1,550 and another Reputable landscaper was $ 1,580. Sure a small Job but some kid came in a bid $ 350 and got the job. Of course there were two BMW's sitting in the garage.

About 3 months later she called me up complaining about the weeds in her planter bed and how bad all the Plants looked. Let me say that was one of the few times I used the BooBy Gelding Shovel approach to the fine art of smoothing customers. So yes I have learned from you and your Shovel. :D

bobbygedd
09-18-2005, 03:52 PM
congradulations, you finally learned something. but when you can snatch, the shovel from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

Ric
09-18-2005, 04:11 PM
congradulations, you finally learned something. but when you can snatch, the shovel from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.


Thank you oh Great Master. May the Bird of Happinest Crap all over you.

rodfather
09-18-2005, 04:16 PM
Thank you oh Great Master. May the Bird of Happinest Crap all over you.

I thought your name was Ric, not Glasshoppa...LOL :D

TheGrassBandit
09-18-2005, 06:07 PM
If there is one thing you can count on, it is that some customers cannot be counted on. I will never understand half of my customers because they say and do things that just make no sense. Ya, they will always piss you off, but when it comes down to it you are the professional. You have to handle it in the best manner possible. Remember: If you satisfy a customer they might tell their neighbor, but if you do a bad job or tick them off they will tell ten neighbors.

Avery
09-18-2005, 06:23 PM
#1- a client cannot "fire me" , because , they do not employ me. they may, at anytime, in writing, CANCEL SERVICE. #2- sheshovel, 6 grand buys alot of landscaping, when there is no brick/stone/wall work involved. we are talking clearing brush, installing foundation size shrubbery, and mulch. this job was pitifully done. it's a huge corner lot, and he used 1-3 gallon container plants. they look like i will look, laying next to you, when i visit you in feb
A client CAN fire you. You are performing a service for them which means they employ you.

6K does not buy much landscaping at all. Even 10K is a bare bones job. I do not know your definition of a "huge corner lot" but an average size corner lot you are gonna need a budget around 20K for a decent job.

bobbygedd
09-18-2005, 07:55 PM
A client CAN fire you. You are performing a service for them which means they employ you.

6K does not buy much landscaping at all. Even 10K is a bare bones job. I do not know your definition of a "huge corner lot" but an average size corner lot you are gonna need a budget around 20K for a decent job.
then MAKE SURE your clients are within the employment laws of your state, pee on

topsites
09-18-2005, 08:11 PM
A client CAN fire you. You are performing a service for them which means they employ you.

As far as I'm concerned it's a silly technicality because no matter how you look at it, you're out of work with that ONE customer but Bob is right, being fired would mean he has NO more work, and also:

The Internal Revenue Service uses these criteria to determine whether an individual is an employee or an independent contractor. The worker is an employee if...
(substitute You with customer to see how and if it applies)

You or your representative tells the worker where, when, and how to work. - No, *I* decide this.
You train the worker. - NO, they don't train me.
The business performance depends on the worker. - Yes.
The worker has a continuing relationship with the company. - Yes
The worker’s services must be personally rendered by the him/her. - Yes.
You set the worker’s work hours. - No, I do.
The worker works on the employer’s premises. - ONLY for the duration of ONE job.
You are paid by the hour, weeks, or month. - Yes.
You furnish tools and materials. - NO, *I* do.
You can fire the worker without violating a contract. - not in bg's case but in mine I don't care what they call it.
The worker has a right to quit without incurring a liability. - NO, I have the right to do it, but not without liability.
The worker does not offer the worker’s services to the public at large. - NO!
The worker has no opportunity for profit or loss as a result of the worker’s service. - NO!
The worker has no significant investment in the business. - NO! NO! NO!
You require the worker to submit oral or written reports. - NONONONONO
The worker is a corporate officer. - I don't understand this one.

So, although we may be classified as our own employees, we are NOT the customer's employees and ultimately we own the business, not them. (hence the peon allegation).

Avery
09-18-2005, 09:36 PM
Spliting hairs guys. I get a W2 from them, they write me a check for work performed. If I am not working for them who, pray tell, am I working for? And if I am working for them they can fire me, drop me or however you want to describe it. End result is still the same. No more work from that client. No more money. Being fired does not mean you have no more work period. Just no more work from that client.

Owning the business has nothing to do with it. But if saying a client cannot fire you makes you feel good then by all means hold on to that thought! :)

Avery
09-18-2005, 09:38 PM
then MAKE SURE your clients are within the employment laws of your state, pee on

And I am not a tax man or a code enforcer. I don't care if they comply with employment laws or not...long as their check is good. :D

Soupy
09-18-2005, 10:57 PM
i have a client, he owns 2 homes, i do them myself, on sunday. for 5-6 yrs, i've been doing his-grasscutting, shrub trimming, and fall leaves. he asked for a price last year on landscaping for one of the houses. i quoted it. he said too much$$$. fine. TODAY, i go to mow, the entire place has been landscaped. it was easily 6-8 grand worth of work (my prices). he hired someone else to do it. it looks like crap, but, oh well. does this end the relationship? my initial instinct was to knock on the door, and lay into him. i stopped, took a deep breath and said, "hey, i'm getting $40 a week to mow the lawn, it takes me less than 25 minutes solo. this shouldn't change anything." then, i shot grass clippings into his new mulch when i cut the grass, forgot to blow off the sidewalks, skipped the weedwacking, and went on my way. how does him hiring out effect your relationship? or does it, at all?


Bobby, maybe you should have sent him a gift basket :p sorry I couldn't resist. I wouldn't let it bother you, continue on with business as long as it's there.

Envy Lawn Service
09-19-2005, 12:53 AM
would this upset you?

The answer is YES it would, no question.
It always does if it was a job I would have liked to have done.

If it's a well done job that's about as far as I let it go.
But it just flat ticks me off if it was poorly done and is highly visible.
These situations I have to "handle".

But what you described was a poor way of handling it and a poor way of giving the customer a hint you were ticked off. In this case, I don't think you will have to worry about what 'you' will or won't do. Unless there is some special reason you must cut them on Sundays, you are probably history now anyways. If the customer is even remotely happy with the landscape work, you can bet your last buck that he will be giving him a call tomorrow about the mowing, if the landscaper mows. If not, it's likely he will call a full service company and replace you both.

The thing is, if you had spoke with the customer and brought up the landscaping in a civil manner, you might have found out that he was totally unsatisfied with it and had learned a lesson or wanted you to re-do it.

sheshovel
09-19-2005, 01:21 AM
Small , cheap and out of place :D



Sorry could not resist that on BG

LOL! Olderthan!! :D :blob3: :waving:

bobbygedd
09-19-2005, 10:58 AM
a business owner in this service does NOT work on Sundays

a lawnboy does
sir, i dissagree. weekends, are for "weekend warriors". these people, known to me as "ham and eggers" , or common folk, are part of the herd, the cattle, who shuffle off to the fields monday thru friday, then get thier fun in on weekends. they create crowds, traffic, and poor conditions. they wait in long lines (like cattle), they take 5 days during the week, and dedicate this to thier master, or, boss. then they take only 2 days, and try to spread it out to thier children, wife, friends, church, fun time, sports time, etc, etc. i consider this behaviour a waste of life. i'd rather take my free time monday thru friday, and work weekends, while the yahoos are living it up

palm boy
09-19-2005, 11:15 AM
sir, i dissagree. weekends, are for "weekend warriors". these people, known to me as "ham and eggers" , or common folk, are part of the herd, the cattle, who shuffle off to the fields monday thru friday, then get thier fun in on weekends. they create crowds, traffic, and poor conditions. they wait in long lines (like cattle), they take 5 days during the week, and dedicate this to thier master, or, boss. then they take only 2 days, and try to spread it out to thier children, wife, friends, church, fun time, sports time, etc, etc. i consider this behaviour a waste of life. i'd rather take my free time monday thru friday, and work weekends, while the yahoos are living it up

Well said, you are right on with this one Bobby. A day at the lake, the beach, or a day in the mountains, etc., etc., is always better during the week Monday-Friday. And when fishing, your odds of catching are greatly increased I might add- as well as the odds of not getting into a brawl at the boat ramp.

PMLAWN
09-19-2005, 12:28 PM
sir, i dissagree. weekends, are for "weekend warriors". these people, known to me as "ham and eggers" , or common folk, are part of the herd, the cattle, who shuffle off to the fields monday thru friday, then get thier fun in on weekends. they create crowds, traffic, and poor conditions. they wait in long lines (like cattle), they take 5 days during the week, and dedicate this to thier master, or, boss. then they take only 2 days, and try to spread it out to thier children, wife, friends, church, fun time, sports time, etc, etc. i consider this behaviour a waste of life. i'd rather take my free time monday thru friday, and work weekends, while the yahoos are living it up

I cut an industrial park on Sunday as there are no cars or trucks running around to get in the way. Work tunes on the head listening to the game.

And yes the lake in unbearable as there are way to many boats on it. Weekday afternoons are the greatest.

boatdude
09-19-2005, 06:33 PM
"i'd rather take my free time monday thru friday, and work weekends, while the yahoos are living it up"


Got to give credit where credit is due...your right.
bd

Ramairfreak98ss
09-19-2005, 08:48 PM
Yeah id feel bad too. Ive had good customers that all of a sudden get tons of bushes put in and some minor landscaping, mulching etc and im like thinking, uh hello, i cut your lawn every week, i do all this stuff lol. Just some people are idiots, others are really trying to save a few hundred or thousand on a large job. Personally, if i had someone cutting my lawn etc and had a reputation with them id pay the higher price.. BUT your average joe with his 800k+ house is a cheapskate or i get these eh, "non-american" guys having 10 companys give him bids on his yard for a big landscaping job, then want you to tell them what they can do... hello buddy, you can pay ME per hour to sit and talk and tell you what to do since your going to have the $4000 guy do it vs any of the $8000/job guys. If you were overpriced THAT much more, id assume they could come ask me, hey, why have i gotten quotes from other compaies for say $1600 and you quoted me $4000? Id try to adjust and explain if i could, if its just too low, i would say something seems wrong with the estimate. oh well. cut your lawn and make it look nice, let the other guys screw up his bushes, next year hell hire you to replant all fo them :blob3: