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philk17088
09-19-2005, 05:32 PM
First the barricade failed us this year,now merit.
We applied merit to cool season turf as a combo product with fert.
Applied it at 4# per M, higher than label rate and we got grubs on every lawn we treated.
I dumped a lot of money onto the ground with this and the results stink.
Is there any way to get Bayer to pay for damage?
I know last year there was some program that they would re-imburse for repair work.
I e-mailed Bayer and am waiting to hear back.
This is really starting to s*ck! :realmad:

kcchiefs58
09-19-2005, 07:17 PM
A few years ago i had a little trouble with merit on grub control. I used the 75 wsp and applied it in mid to late may at the high rate which is 1 packet to 8000 ft or in our case 1 packet to 25 gallons of H2O. The problem was that in august we would find grubs, worked great on the billbugs but not grubs. I called my rep who called bayers rep and he called me. I found that we were putting on merit to early for grubs. You figure that it takes about 7 days to get in the plant, by the time the merit is in and out of the system is about 60 days (says merit rep, we were always told 90, but anyway)by the time grubs hit in my location is usually 1st of august so anyway merit was out by then, but worked great on billbugs which we usually find 2nd to 3rd week of June, but this year a little later. anyway since then we moved our treatments to the 2nd week of june and haven't had any problems. This year i did have 1 customer with grubs from using merit but that isn't bad out of 300 customers.

dishboy
09-20-2005, 08:42 AM
A few years ago i had a little trouble with merit on grub control. I used the 75 wsp and applied it in mid to late may at the high rate which is 1 packet to 8000 ft or in our case 1 packet to 25 gallons of H2O. The problem was that in august we would find grubs, worked great on the billbugs but not grubs. I called my rep who called bayers rep and he called me. I found that we were putting on merit to early for grubs. You figure that it takes about 7 days to get in the plant, by the time the merit is in and out of the system is about 60 days (says merit rep, we were always told 90, but anyway)by the time grubs hit in my location is usually 1st of august so anyway merit was out by then, but worked great on billbugs which we usually find 2nd to 3rd week of June, but this year a little later. anyway since then we moved our treatments to the 2nd week of june and haven't had any problems. This year i did have 1 customer with grubs from using merit but that isn't bad out of 300 customers.


Sixty day control is also the longest I have noticed. Also the seven day activation is what I have observed. My only failure this season was a thatched lawn which required a second treatment to gain control.

Runner
09-20-2005, 11:25 AM
Timing is just SO crucial both before AND after. Too soon, like you said, the residual is POSSIBLE to wear off and still have some grubs hatch out. Too late, and the grubs can mature to larger size, to where you get into a dosage issue.

Grassmechanic
09-20-2005, 03:31 PM
I have to concur, Philk. It sounds like it may have been a timing issue. Also, what kind of grubs were you targeting?

Mscotrid
09-20-2005, 04:20 PM
I think you have to look at the control products with a few less expectations. If you expect 100% control put the pipe away and come to reality. The best you can expect with any control product would be 96-98% control. Does that mean no damage? It means the damage will be minimal for your target pest.

Bayer and Dow do not market their perspective products as (Grubocide), it is a grub control. If you assume no grubs your mistaken. there are to many variables that influence your control. Did you check the thatch on all your lawns prior to treating? Did your customer water the expected amount? Was your timing on target?

96% control= 200-400 square feet of damage to a 10K property. All university data would proclaim that a success. Question to you, How much damaged would there have been without you application? Before you bash a product or proclaim it didn't work examine your own expectations and that that you tell your customers. If you guarantee no damage, expect too pay for the repairs. If you proclaim control but outbreak could occur consider yourself an educated professional. I've never heard Bayer or Dow say you will not have a problem so don't advertise the application as such.


Not picking on anyone in particular, just educate yourself about your products and expectations.

philk17088
09-20-2005, 04:27 PM
I do not expect 100% control but I didn't expect 100 percent failure either.
The affected lawns are less than 10 years old and no more than 1/2 of thatch any where.

Finding average of 17 grubs per square foot. That definietly is out of control

philk17088
09-20-2005, 04:34 PM
From the Merit website. THey claim 90% control and 4 month residual for white grubs.
Now is it too much to expect reults with those kind of claims?

tocs93
09-20-2005, 05:45 PM
I am in western PA and did my Mach 2 apps for grub control in mid July at the fert/mach2 rate of 3.4/1000. I am thinking that some of the lawns had some grub damage due to the fact that we have had extremely dry conditions this year and the product did not get watered in sufficiently. We also had tons of Jap Beatles this year. They were all over the place. So I am thinking extreme dryness, customers not watering in product, and just a few quick downpours that are running off have all contributed to poor control for me this year.

TurfProSTL
09-20-2005, 11:13 PM
Have yet to find grub damage on the lawns we treated with a Merit/fertilizer combo product. Treated June thru mid-July in the transition zone.....

Mscotrid
09-21-2005, 11:36 AM
From the Merit website. THey claim 90% control and 4 month residual for white grubs.
Now is it too much to expect reults with those kind of claims?

With that information a 5000 sq yard could have a 10' x 50', 500sq ft damage and would fall under acceptable control rate. That's quite ab-it of damaged turf, but by Bayer standards that is alright. By our standards that would seem high.

I guess we just have to explain to customers were using the best chemistry available but during years of high pressure you can expect some damage.

philk17088
09-21-2005, 03:37 PM
Update.
These lawns are in a retirement community. Yesterday Iwas out applying dylox and setting up sprinklers for people and the one old fellow came out with his mowing invoices. Guess what? The Home owners association mowed the lawns right after application, with a Walker and a bagger!
The lawns that the customers mow themselves had some grub activity in the curb strips,which I can understand, they are hard to apply to, but no damage in the lawn itself.
Add another component to the application scenario!
Sorry for losing it :blush:

lawnservice
09-21-2005, 04:19 PM
With that information a 5000 sq yard could have a 10' x 50', 500sq ft damage and would fall under acceptable control rate. That's quite ab-it of damaged turf, but by Bayer standards that is alright. By our standards that would seem high.

I guess we just have to explain to customers were using the best chemistry available but during years of high pressure you can expect some damage.
mmmm..... actually we should understand that for every 100 grubs in the soil 10 will live. A product like merit can guarantee 100% damage free lawn because the population threshold will be very low.

if one has damage on 10% of any particular lawn.....then something went wrong with the application process, wrong rate, not watered, mowing, or just plain ole operator error and forgot to hit the area.


we have a 'notice' on our invoices, statements and renewal letters that we need to know the property's mowing schedule. We are not responsible if no one communicates to us the scheduled day.

DUSTYCEDAR
09-21-2005, 04:24 PM
mach 2 here at the end of june early july so far so good
but i am seeing lots of grubs in some lawns that wernt treated so let the games begin

lawn king
09-21-2005, 05:18 PM
We have experienced fantastic results with merit,year after year. We use the 0 0 7 merit exclusivley?

NattyLawn
09-21-2005, 05:39 PM
mach 2 here at the end of june early july so far so good
but i am seeing lots of grubs in some lawns that wernt treated so let the games begin

Merit was applied right after the 4th of July. Had some sod webworm damage (not Merits fault), but no grub damage to the treated lawns as of yet. The customers without Merit app that have grubs have them bad. It should be fun once we actually get some rain and the damage really appears.

SchlepRock
09-21-2005, 10:15 PM
Hello, lawnsite members! :waving:

SchlepRock has come home.

I, along with other fellow turfcare providers have had problems with crabgrass and grub controls. Personally, I used Mach II. I've had to return to several properties to apply Dylox due to huge hungry grubs.

My opinion is that there was product failure largely due to photodegredation. 4 months of pure sun & heat excites microbial activity which causes chemicals to rapidly break down into its basic ingredients.

I am considering waiting until late August and just nailing them with Dylox.

Or, maybe hitting them harder with Merit or a reasonable facsimilie thereof! ;)
(Is it true that the patent is up on Merit next year and that we will be seeing a lot of cheap knock off's???)