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bobbygedd
09-21-2005, 07:54 AM
i make it a strict rule, never to take advice from people who have failed in this business. they will never admit they FAILED, they all just say, "well, i sold my business to do something else. " or, "i got burned out". or, whatever. in my opinion, this all = YOU FAILED! i have exposure to about 5-6 failures in the lawn business. they all ran aground, for various reasons, yet can't seem to understand why. one guy PRICED himself out of business. yet my advice from him the other day was, "you shouldn't charge extra for leaves, i used to just suck them up with the mower, at no extra fee. this is why, you need a walker." :dizzy: :dizzy: another guy, "you shouldn't charge extra for weed and FEED, i never did, i just charged it as one application." :dizzy: another guy, " you can't charge per month, it isn't fair to the customer. you can only charge per cut. hey, there was one year, it rained so much, we cut about an average of one time per month. another year, it was so dry, we didn't cut at all in augest or september." so i asked, "what happened to your business?" he says, "oh, well, you can't make money in this bizness, i got a family to feed, i got a great job at xyz.......". :dizzy: :cry: they all failed, one way or another, YET, they are giving ME advice. silly, don't ya think? do YOU take advice from people who have failed?

65hoss
09-21-2005, 08:01 AM
do YOU take advice from people who have failed?
No. I agree, to many "I used to do that" out there giving advice. Its one thing when they were successful and retired or sold the business after 20 yrs. But those that were in business for 1-15 yrs and got out due to the above excuses...I will not take advice, well not from the business standpoint. Equipment maybe, not business.

PMLAWN
09-21-2005, 08:09 AM
Advise, NO, but you most definitely can learn from them.

DLS1
09-21-2005, 08:26 AM
Also don't take advice from a guy who makes up stories since the dollars are made up. The stories are always good for a laugh :D

daveintoledo
09-21-2005, 08:30 AM
Advise, NO, but you most definitely can learn from them.


watch and learn,

MBDiagMan
09-21-2005, 08:46 AM
Yes, when taking advice about ANYTHING, you should ALWAYS consider the source of the information and it's even fair to ask how a person came to that conclusion. Ask them how or where they learned that and see if they justify their advice.

Have a great day,
Doc

1MajorTom
09-21-2005, 08:47 AM
If you sell your business for a profit, I don't care if you have only been in business for 4 years, if you sell it and you make a nice chunk of change, how is that a failure? :dizzy:
What happens if you get out of the business because you no longer enjoyed it and you moved on to something that you enjoy more, is that considered a failure?
Failed = sinking ship, no profit, losing business daily, going under.

I guess Bo Jackson is considered a failure at baseball then cause he wanted to play football too huh? Get real, just because someone leaves the business to pursue something else that they enjoy doesn't make them a failure. Bo Knows.

In your eyes someone has to stick with a business for 50+ years and never do anything else to be considered a success??? thanks for the laugh.

bobbygedd
09-21-2005, 08:58 AM
if you want a laugh, look in the mirror. failure= "i got burned out" " things got rough, so i packed it in" " i had to get a job, cus i got married and had kids". jumping off a sinking ship, before it has fully submerged, does not mean you succeeded, the ship still sunk. i don't apreciate your stupid post, major tom. i'm talking about people who have FAILED for various reasons. pay attention before you post. read the original post, which clearly defines failure, then, make an intelligent reply. good day

1MajorTom
09-21-2005, 09:01 AM
Explain to me then who can leave the lawn care business and be considered a success? Define those qualifications. And good day to you too, but just think about it.....Bo Jackson wanted to diversify his talents. Was he consiered a failure because he didn't just want to play baseball?

stumper1620
09-21-2005, 09:08 AM
Explain to me then who can leave the lawn care business and be considered a success? Define those qualifications. And good day to you too, but just think about it.....Bo Jackson wanted to diversify his talents. Was he consiered a failure because he didn't just want to play baseball?
If I remember correctly, Coastal sold his Business last winter, made a big profit, turned around and went right back into it.
is that Failure or smart business???

Ramairfreak98ss
09-21-2005, 09:20 AM
if you want a laugh, look in the mirror. failure= "i got burned out" " things got rough, so i packed it in" " i had to get a job, cus i got married and had kids". jumping off a sinking ship, before it has fully submerged, does not mean you succeeded, the ship still sunk. i don't apreciate your stupid post, major tom. i'm talking about people who have FAILED for various reasons. pay attention before you post. read the original post, which clearly defines failure, then, make an intelligent reply. good day

lol, the guy has a valid point? why act like a jerk about someone elses opinion?

fcl01
09-21-2005, 09:27 AM
some of the best advice out there comes from those that have failed.
at least if they know they failed, and the reason for failing.
if they tell you how and why they failed, you'd be a fool NOT to take they're advice. :waving:

stumper1620
09-21-2005, 09:30 AM
some of the best advice out there comes from those that have failed.
at least if they know they failed, and the reason for failing.
if they tell you how and why they failed, you'd be a fool NOT to take they're advice. :waving:
Very true!
if they tell you the truth.

olderthandirt
09-21-2005, 09:53 AM
Listen, evaluate, then decide if there was a good reason for failure and if there was learn from someone else's mistakes. Why does anyone want to learn from there own mistakes when they can let someone else be the guinea pig? If thats the case close the forum up and we can all go about our work. :waving:

palm boy
09-21-2005, 10:24 AM
i make it a strict rule, never to take advice from people who have failed in this business. they will never admit they FAILED, they all just say, "well, i sold my business to do something else. " or, "i got burned out". or, whatever. in my opinion, this all = YOU FAILED! i have exposure to about 5-6 failures in the lawn business. they all ran aground, for various reasons, yet can't seem to understand why. one guy PRICED himself out of business. yet my advice from him the other day was, "you shouldn't charge extra for leaves, i used to just suck them up with the mower, at no extra fee. this is why, you need a walker." :dizzy: :dizzy: another guy, "you shouldn't charge extra for weed and FEED, i never did, i just charged it as one application." :dizzy: another guy, " you can't charge per month, it isn't fair to the customer. you can only charge per cut. hey, there was one year, it rained so much, we cut about an average of one time per month. another year, it was so dry, we didn't cut at all in augest or september." so i asked, "what happened to your business?" he says, "oh, well, you can't make money in this bizness, i got a family to feed, i got a great job at xyz.......". :dizzy: :cry: they all failed, one way or another, YET, they are giving ME advice. silly, don't ya think? do YOU take advice from people who have failed?

So I begin cutting grass in the neighborhood as a youngster. Succeed to the point where I purchase a nice sports car (celica w/ 14,000 miles as well as a $2,500 truck & trailer to expand my lawn biz) when I turn 16. Work through high school making an average of $300 per week. After graduation , go to the local Community college earn my AA in 3 yrs while working full time in the lawn biz. Have one full time helper that worked with me from the time he could drive 16 yrs old. Pay him $300+ per week (this is 1988) after he graduates from high school while he goes to college full time. We build the business up to the point where we are now only mowing in the exclusive neighborhoods of town. We mow lawns for Doctor's, Executives, Stockbrokers, etc. etc. We also mow the common grounds for all of the these neighborhoods. This is me, my helper, and in the summer 2-3 part timers. When I turn 25 yrs old I decide to sell ( I finance it for him) the biz to my employee. Why? b/c I decide I want to finish my last 2 yrs of college and explore other opportunities in the rat race. Now you are telling me that I was a failure in the lawn biz? Does this mean you have failed if you are exploring hot dog stand oppurtunities, band gigs on your trailer etc? I don't think so, but this is what you are saying. All this being said I wish you luck on your future endeavors Bobby. With the profit from your first few hot dogs you can probably get your wipers fixed. :p

Sean Adams
09-21-2005, 10:52 AM
I have no intentions of getting into an argument here. I understand what bobby is saying but I think Jodi has made a valid point.

I started mowing lawns when I was 16 or 17 - nothing serious. Turned 18, graduated and went to college. Looked around at what my friends were doing and the prospect of being a waiter or working on a dock somewhere did not appeal tome nor did it compare to what I could make in this business. So I got serious. Serious enough that it put me through school.

Upon graduating from college I had some very nice job offers, and against Mom and Dad's wishes, I continued to operate my business full time. I will be the first to admit that luck was on my side.

I had 8 employees - all friends - who worked very hard, were very loyal, and helped the business grow. We were also the only real game in town. The only other company moved on to focus solely on hardscaping - so as far as maintenance, light installation and fertilization - we were it.

I looked to people I knew who were in business to learn as much as I could about actually OPERATING a business. I wasn't the typical owner in the sense that my employees knew more about the equipment than I did and were actually better than me when it came to doing the work. I focused on managing the business, growing the business, constantly marketing the business and making sure customer service was a major part of the company's practices.

But we cannot always control the circumstances and situations that arise. We (my employees and I) were getting older and options began to form for my employees - 2 graduated from college, 1 became a police officer, 1 was given a business from a family member, 2 started a family, 1 moved away. Now I was in a situation where a decision had to be made.

The business grew to 150 high-end, full service residential clients, 50 commercial clients and nearly 400 fertilizing clients. We were a well-oiled machine. I could count on these guys to handle just about any situation that presented itself. On top of that, competition entered the market. There was a pattern of prices being driven down and I had several "suitors" who approached me about buying my business.

By this point the business (aside from regular operating expenses) was completely debt-free. I consulted a few trusted mentors and the overwhelming opinion was to sell while the "product" I possesed was 'hot" and "worth something significant". It was the most difficult decision I had to make and I delayed the decision over and over again. The idea of downsizing was not attractive to me and I refused to lower our standard of quality to compete with the new pricing structure that was working its way into the market. On top of that, the prospect of hiring all new employees, retraining them and hoping I could trust and rely on them like I did my "guys' was also not very inviting.

So I sold my company and agreed to stay on for a year to help with the transition.

Do I feel or think that I failed - not at all. I made a business decision that I do not regret. I vowed to remain in the industry because I enjoyed it so much. I now am involved with another lawn & landscape company on a day-to-day basis. It was a distressed company with a lot of problems and my job is to turn it around and make it as successful and as profitable as possible. So far so good.

Sorry so long...

Nosmo
09-21-2005, 10:53 AM
I went to school with a guy whose father was a lawyer. He went on to college and then law school. He had a reputation as a good lawyer and had some good law partners.

I don't know what his finances were when he was in his mid 50's but I would say he had it made. He told me he was burned out on lawyering and was gonna retire. Just in general conversation I asked what are you gonna do now ?

His reply was take care of my mother (she was elderly) and I am gonna take some courses at OSU about cooking.

I know he wasn't a failure and if a young fellow asked him about law school or being a lawyer he would be qualified to give worthwhile advice.

So if you know a successful LCO who sold out or retired his advice would be worth listening to.

Nosmo

topsites
09-21-2005, 10:56 AM
No. I agree, to many "I used to do that" out there giving advice. Its one thing when they were successful and retired or sold the business after 20 yrs. But those that were in business for 1-15 yrs and got out due to the above excuses...I will not take advice, well not from the business standpoint. Equipment maybe, not business.

I find those who WERE indeed in business for 20-some years (or whatever) are few and far in between, a rare find indeed, AND are almost NEVER forthcoming with the advice... Not to say they MIND giving it out, but they're not stupid enough to constantly be lecturing it upon you when you didn't even ask.

The other thing is in response to the thread-starter, I find THE advice they gave you in your example is actually THE reason they're no longer in business thou I strongly suspect you already know this is true as well.

topsites
09-21-2005, 10:59 AM
Yes, when taking advice about ANYTHING, you should ALWAYS consider the source of the information and it's even fair to ask how a person came to that conclusion. Ask them how or where they learned that and see if they justify their advice.

Have a great day,
Doc

No offense to you but anyone comes up to me with unsolicited advice of any kind stands a high probability of catching me on a day where I got a short fuse, as is usually the case when I encounter this type of time-waster.

topsites
09-21-2005, 11:06 AM
lol, the guy has a valid point? why act like a jerk about someone elses opinion?

... it isn't all the time I agree 100% with Mr.Bg, but this happens to be one of them. He accurately defined failure NOT because they went out of business but if you read the short paragraph you can clearly see WHY and THAT is the definition of failure is the reason behind the end of the business, not the end in and of itself.
There are exceptions to the rule, such as someone who WAS in the lawncare business AND failed but now operates a successful business of another kind, I MAY take advice from them so long it's not specifically lawncare related AND they should KNOW better at that point as well.

It amazes me every single day how many people out there just don't see things for what they are... I know we're all guilty but is there no end to the denial and justification? Nevermind, I already know the answer lol :p

Runner
09-21-2005, 11:24 AM
I still stand by the words that my mentor uses....
"Those who think they know what they're doing - do NOT influence those of us who DO."
I've always loved these words, although it always sounds better from him, somehow...matbe it's the humor he has when he says it. :rolleyes:

jtrice11
09-21-2005, 11:29 AM
i make it a strict rule, never to take advice from people who have failed in this business. they will never admit they FAILED, they all just say, "well, i sold my business to do something else. " or, "i got burned out". or, whatever. in my opinion, this all = YOU FAILED! i have exposure to about 5-6 failures in the lawn business. they all ran aground, for various reasons, yet can't seem to understand why. one guy PRICED himself out of business. yet my advice from him the other day was, "you shouldn't charge extra for leaves, i used to just suck them up with the mower, at no extra fee. this is why, you need a walker." :dizzy: :dizzy: another guy, "you shouldn't charge extra for weed and FEED, i never did, i just charged it as one application." :dizzy: another guy, " you can't charge per month, it isn't fair to the customer. you can only charge per cut. hey, there was one year, it rained so much, we cut about an average of one time per month. another year, it was so dry, we didn't cut at all in augest or september." so i asked, "what happened to your business?" he says, "oh, well, you can't make money in this bizness, i got a family to feed, i got a great job at xyz.......". :dizzy: :cry: they all failed, one way or another, YET, they are giving ME advice. silly, don't ya think? do YOU take advice from people who have failed?

This will sound harsh but its reality. There are very few (if any) barriers to the lawn care industry, all one needs is a truck, trailer and a mower. Therefore the industry will attract alot of people, out of all those people, there are a certain number of them that have no business...running a business. Therefore the failure rate is probably higher than say in a trade or specialized field. Its just a fact.

GreenUtah
09-21-2005, 11:59 AM
This seems to be an odd thread for this area, but I'll go ahaead and toss in my two cents while it remains here. Too often people who have a business fall into the trap of their business becoming their identity, allowing pride and emotion to cloud the true purpose for having the business, pure profit, an income stream. Every single person who has a biz, regardless of it's type, has a different idea of what that amount(income) needs to be to keep them happy. Often, the longer you are in, the higher that number grows and an amount that was beyond your wildest dreams at 18, pisses you off at 30 for underperforming. The point is, I have bought businesses from individuals in 5 years, in 10 years and in 30 and seen 5 yr old businesses further along than the 30 yr old ones, but with that very same look in the owner's eyes. I would consider neither a failure, even if they were looking for time away to regroup or merely changing their interests or seeking a more profitable venture. When I have expanded into markets to fulfil contracts, then sold at the end of those contracts the "fill in" business, I don't consider that to be a failure either. The true nature of entrepeneurs is to be always seeking opportunity, regardless of how it presents itself. This business is filled with entrepeneurs of all sizes and stripes working right out there with those of extreme agronomic ability. Who will win, who will lose, who's to say, but if someone encountered a pitfall along the way and thinks enough of humanity to share that with me, regardless if I already think I am aware of it, I'll still listen. I have yet to see anyone completely dominate a market and hold it through their excellence or superior knowledge. I'd guess that says that we all still have room to learn.

PMLAWN
09-21-2005, 11:59 AM
This will sound harsh but its reality. There are very few (if any) barriers to the lawn care industry, all one needs is a truck, trailer and a mower. Therefore the industry will attract alot of people, out of all those people, there are a certain number of them that have no business...running a business. Therefore the failure rate is probably higher than say in a trade or specialized field. Its just a fact.
Your point is also good at telling why so many "fail" as the amount of investment leaves little to lose if you "fail". Most would not even look at it as failing but just doing something different.
That brings up another question- do you take advise from a guy that works solo. or has 100 employees, makes $10.000 a year after costs or the guy that makes $100000.00. the guy that invests $500.00 or $100000.00.

Many ways to skin a cat and many opinions of what is a business, what is success or even what is failure.
Education comes in many forms, What you do with it is up to you.

dcplace2004
09-21-2005, 12:54 PM
that make Cs, Ds, And Fs...misery loves company so don't joint the misery...later...

Duck Dodger
09-21-2005, 01:55 PM
I just wanted to say I can't wait to fail. I have only been in business for 2 years and plan on being out by next summer. I have made plenty of money and enjoy the green industry but I plann on becoming a skydiving instructor instead. I will be making less money but will enjoy jumping out of planes at 14k the wind is always blowing and I wear a constant grin. If this is failing I don't want to suceed.

Cigarcop
09-21-2005, 02:27 PM
Duck Dodger,

Good luck with your upcoming failure!

And Bobby, why do you always ask the questions then when someone replies you jump all over them with insults, don't you have some drywall to hang or a leaky sink to fix with your new venture?

PMLAWN
09-21-2005, 02:36 PM
I just wanted to say I can't wait to fail. I have only been in business for 2 years and plan on being out by next summer. I have made plenty of money and enjoy the green industry but I plann on becoming a skydiving instructor instead. I will be making less money but will enjoy jumping out of planes at 14k the wind is always blowing and I wear a constant grin. If this is failing I don't want to suceed.

Much better to fail at lawn care than skydiving :angel:

Duck Dodger
09-21-2005, 02:40 PM
Yes failing at skydiving is not a good thing."if at first you don't suceed skydiving is not for you"

palm boy
09-21-2005, 03:03 PM
Duck Dodger,

Good luck with your upcoming failure!

And Bobby, why do you always ask the questions then when someone replies you jump all over them with insults, don't you have some drywall to hang or a leaky sink to fix with your new venture?

the sink and drywall may be put on hold while BG opens up his hot dog stand. Just having fun w/ ya BG. I do enjoy reading 99% of your threads here. As you break into the home improvement biz and possibly the fast food biz they will surely become even more interesting. How is the weather up there anyways. Wondering if you have had to use the wipers lately?

yrdandgardenhandyman
09-21-2005, 03:19 PM
if you want a laugh, look in the mirror. failure= "i got burned out" " things got rough, so i packed it in" " i had to get a job, cus i got married and had kids". jumping off a sinking ship, before it has fully submerged, does not mean you succeeded, the ship still sunk. i don't apreciate your stupid post, major tom. i'm talking about people who have FAILED for various reasons. pay attention before you post. read the original post, which clearly defines failure, then, make an intelligent reply. good day


You having a bad day? I think her post makes perfect sense. I do agree with you about not taking advice from someone who left the biz because they couldn't make a profit. I do take advice from those whom I have seen proof of their success. Sometimes you just have to make your own mistakes to learn from it. Have you ever made a bad decision business wise, oh great Bobby G? :rolleyes:

bobbygedd
09-21-2005, 03:35 PM
her post makes no sense. go back, read my original post, where i describe FAILURE, and why they failed, and why they shouldn't give advice. i never once mentioned anything about someone building, and selling thier business. these people FAILED MISERABLY, for various reasons. it just drives me nuts, when the people who sank thier own ship, give ME ADVICE, and thier advice is the very same recipe that sank them. after 10 yrs my boat still floats, and is getting stronger every year, by ALOT, not a little. but these men, tell me, i'm doing it wrong :dizzy: . by the way, the kid with the sports car and the $300 a week salary....that doesn't qualify as a succesful business. you need to be able to SUPPORT YOURSELF, and your family (u know, wife, kids, bills) in order for your venture to be considered a business. if not, it's a HOBBY, not a business.

1MajorTom
09-21-2005, 03:42 PM
i make it a strict rule, never to take advice from people who have failed in this business. they will never admit they FAILED, they all just say, "well, i sold my business to do something else. " or, "i got burned out". or, whatever. in my opinion, this all = YOU FAILED!
.Just because someone sells their business, does NOT mean they failed.

bobbygedd
09-21-2005, 03:46 PM
i make it a strict rule, never to take advice from people who have failed in this business. they will never admit they FAILED, they all just say, "well, i sold my business to do something else. " or, "i got burned out". or, whatever. in my opinion, this all = YOU FAILED! i have exposure to about 5-6 failures in the lawn business. they all ran aground, for various reasons, yet can't seem to understand why. one guy PRICED himself out of business. yet my advice from him the other day was, "you shouldn't charge extra for leaves, i used to just suck them up with the mower, at no extra fee. this is why, you need a walker." :dizzy: :dizzy: another guy, "you shouldn't charge extra for weed and FEED, i never did, i just charged it as one application." :dizzy: another guy, " you can't charge per month, it isn't fair to the customer. you can only charge per cut. hey, there was one year, it rained so much, we cut about an average of one time per month. another year, it was so dry, we didn't cut at all in augest or september." so i asked, "what happened to your business?" he says, "oh, well, you can't make money in this bizness, i got a family to feed, i got a great job at xyz.......". :dizzy: :cry: they all failed, one way or another, YET, they are giving ME advice. silly, don't ya think? do YOU take advice from people who have failed?
I HAVE EXPOSURE TO 5-6 FAILURES in the lawn business, they all ran aground.........

1MajorTom
09-21-2005, 03:48 PM
I HAVE EXPOSURE TO 5-6 FAILURES in the lawn business, they all ran aground.........
Great, but don't assume that because you know 5 or 6, that EVERYONE who sells is a failure, that would be a ridiculous assumption. good riddance now.

bobbygedd
09-21-2005, 03:56 PM
what does santa say?

1MajorTom
09-21-2005, 04:09 PM
what does santa say?
Santa says I have been very good this year and will be getting lots of gifts.
What's your point?

Brianslawn
09-21-2005, 04:27 PM
no advice from failures??? so i should start ignoring you bobby?

dont call jodi names. she'll b*tch slap yo midget @$$!!! and make you :cry:

Sean Adams
09-21-2005, 04:31 PM
bobby - it's just like anything else - take what you hear and see with a grain of salt, filter out the waste and take from it what you can...there is always something to learn from just about everyone

bobbygedd
09-21-2005, 04:51 PM
bobby - it's just like anything else - take what you hear and see with a grain of salt, filter out the waste and take from it what you can...there is always something to learn from just about everyone
usually sean, i'd agree with that. i talk to everyone and anyone who will tolerate me. but some of these guys are real gems. it amazes me, they think they got it all figured out, yet, they failed. it's just very annoying. yes jodi, you been very good this year, you'll be getting exactly, what u deserve

olderthandirt
09-21-2005, 04:56 PM
it amazes me, they think they got it all figured out, yet, they failed.

In there eyes they did not fail the circumstance prevented further advancment :D

Its all in how you see things

dvmcmrhp52
09-21-2005, 05:01 PM
So the "plan" of selling in five years will make us a failure?

Good.
I guess I'll be striving to fail on a regular basis.

At least now I know my objective............... :rolleyes:

By the way Mr. Gedd, you can get burned out working for a printing company as well..........were you also a failure at printing?

1MajorTom
09-21-2005, 05:05 PM
yes jodi, you been very good this year, you'll be getting exactly, what u deserve
great, cause I deserve a lot, so it better be good.

bobbygedd
09-21-2005, 05:07 PM
In there eyes they did not fail the circumstance prevented further advancment :D

Its all in how you see things
the circumstances? HA HA HA. yea, poverty.......can't pay the bills.....this reminds me of a story. there was this skinny little blonde haired kid, his name was bob. he lived like 5 blocks from me. he was a year younger, and a total wierdo, i never liked him. i was like 18. he used to walk past my house to get home, i would throw beer bottles at him if i saw him. then, i found out, those two hot chics with the nice beehinds...were his sisters. next time i saw him i was like......" no, bob, don't run, come here, have a beer, i got pot..." i got all chummy with him. one day, he's walking by, and asks for a ride downtown. ok, hop in. i'm driving down main street, and he sees another guy walking, he says, "stop, i'm gonna kick this guys ass." ok, i pull over. he gets out, the kid wipes the pavement with him. it was totally one sided. he gets back in the car, a bloody mess, and says, "yup, i kicked his butt good, only, he don't know it." i cracked another beer, sparked up a stogey, and drove him home. some guys, don't even know when they been beat up

bobbygedd
09-21-2005, 05:09 PM
So the "plan" of selling in five years will make us a failure?

Good.
I guess I'll be striving to fail on a regular basis.

At least now I know my objective............... :rolleyes:

By the way Mr. Gedd, you can get burned out working for a printing company as well..........were you also a failure at printing?
i will not reply, as not to upset, majortom. good day

olderthandirt
09-21-2005, 05:14 PM
the circumstances? HA HA HA. yea, poverty.......can't pay the bills.....this reminds me of a story. there was this skinny little blonde haired kid, his name was bob. he lived like 5 blocks from me. he was a year younger, and a total wierdo, i never liked him. i was like 18. he used to walk past my house to get home, i would throw beer bottles at him if i saw him. then, i found out, those two hot chics with the nice beehinds...were his sisters. next time i saw him i was like......" no, bob, don't run, come here, have a beer, i got pot..." i got all chummy with him. one day, he's walking by, and asks for a ride downtown. ok, hop in. i'm driving down main street, and he sees another guy walking, he says, "stop, i'm gonna kick this guys ass." ok, i pull over. he gets out, the kid wipes the pavement with him. it was totally one sided. he gets back in the car, a bloody mess, and says, "yup, i kicked his butt good, only, he don't know it." i cracked another beer, sparked up a stogey, and drove him home. some guys, don't even know when they been beat up

But in the kids head he kicked some butt, its him feeling the pain and not you, So as you watched him get his butt kicked did you learn anything? Like no your limitations, don't pick on guys that can beat your butt, DUCK when a fist is flying at your face. Even in defeat you can always learn from someone elses misfortunes & failures and use that info to your advantage. In this case always Duck :laugh: :laugh:

palm boy
09-21-2005, 05:19 PM
the circumstances? HA HA HA. yea, poverty.......can't pay the bills.....this reminds me of a story. there was this skinny little blonde haired kid, his name was bob. he lived like 5 blocks from me. he was a year younger, and a total wierdo, i never liked him. i was like 18. he used to walk past my house to get home, i would throw beer bottles at him if i saw him. then, i found out, those two hot chics with the nice beehinds...were his sisters. next time i saw him i was like......" no, bob, don't run, come here, have a beer, i got pot..." i got all chummy with him. one day, he's walking by, and asks for a ride downtown. ok, hop in. i'm driving down main street, and he sees another guy walking, he says, "stop, i'm gonna kick this guys ass." ok, i pull over. he gets out, the kid wipes the pavement with him. it was totally one sided. he gets back in the car, a bloody mess, and says, "yup, i kicked his butt good, only, he don't know it." i cracked another beer, sparked up a stogey, and drove him home. some guys, don't even know when they been beat up

I thought your story was leading to the fact that you got chummy with his sisters , not him BG.

rodfather
09-21-2005, 05:20 PM
I listen to everyone in this business...young or old, big or small. By now, I can tell if there's a pony underneath it all.

bobbygedd
09-21-2005, 05:21 PM
mac, the first thing i learned from that, was don't take boxing lessons from little bobby. the second thing i learned, that his sisters.....loved midgets with muscles, and mullets

olderthandirt
09-21-2005, 05:23 PM
mac, the first thing i learned from that, was don't take boxing lessons from little bobby. the second thing i learned, that his sisters.....loved midgets with muscles, and mullets
So you did learn something from someone else's failures ! My point exactly :D

Brianslawn
09-21-2005, 08:47 PM
so all these biz ventures and million $$$ ideas i always hear you talking about bobby.... are you actually seeing them through and making millions a year? or are you just all theory and no action. if one is all theory and no action, doesnt that make them a failure??? ponder that thought! :cool:

topsites
09-21-2005, 08:56 PM
This will sound harsh but its reality. There are very few (if any) barriers to the lawn care industry, all one needs is a truck, trailer and a mower. Therefore the industry will attract alot of people, out of all those people, there are a certain number of them that have no business...running a business. Therefore the failure rate is probably higher than say in a trade or specialized field. Its just a fact.

At LEAST 50 percent of ALL new businesses fail... I suspect the actual number is closer to 90 percent, but that's just me.

Just in case, failure is defined as going out of business due to having made bad decisions or mistakes that ultimately could've only resulted in this and NOT the end of the business in and of itself, lol

topsites
09-21-2005, 09:10 PM
So the "plan" of selling in five years will make us a failure?

Good.
I guess I'll be striving to fail on a regular basis.

At least now I know my objective............... :rolleyes:

By the way Mr. Gedd, you can get burned out working for a printing company as well..........were you also a failure at printing?

NO, what bobby means is when it's at LEAST half obvious the REASON someone went OUT of business is because they failed AND you ask them WHY they are no longer running it, they ALWAYS got some OTHER reason and NEVER will they admit that it was their OWN mistakes that sunk their ship!

However, Bobby, I got news for you and it used to pizz me off but today I simply accept it as human nature:
TWO people tell you a story, one of which is a lie.
Ask BOTH of them if they are telling you the truth, and 99% of the time BOTH of them will say YES, both the honest person AND the liar.

How about when you get a potential customer and you KNOW they're trying to scam you, ever try and confront them? Mostly to humor myself, I did it a few times just to prove the previous point and guess what? Yup, you know it, not even ONCE did I get someone who decided to come straight and just fess up, they ALL deny vehemently any wrongdoing on their part.

'Tis the nature of the beast within us.

topsites
09-21-2005, 09:14 PM
so all these biz ventures and million $$$ ideas i always hear you talking about bobby.... are you actually seeing them through and making millions a year? or are you just all theory and no action. if one is all theory and no action, doesnt that make them a failure??? ponder that thought! :cool:

oh yeah, lol

I almost forgot lol

LOL bobby they got you this time ahahahaha
It's all good, I catch it too.

bobbygedd
09-22-2005, 07:57 AM
ok, here is just one example of the advice i got, within a 10 minute conversation with one of these, very nice, likeable men, but, failures in business nonetheless. i walked up, he said, "hey bob, how's business?" i said, "it's rough right now, i can't even aerate, it's so dry, the cores fall apart before even comming out of the hole. i'm pulling 1/4" plugs." he goes, "well, THAT'S ALL YOU NEED!. you see, you just want to scratch the ground up, so the seed takes. " i was dying to start an argument, but instead, i just said, "yea, that's true." the second piece of advice was, he says his friend had a problem with cinch bugs. he told his friend to apply granular talstar, then check 2 days later to see that the bugs were dead. if they werent, re-apply. and repeat process......until the cinch bugs were gone :cry: :cry: just because someone sells thier business, at a profit, does not mean they succeeded. example: you start a business. you struggle, you build, you prosper. things start getting hairy, competition is rough, you are losing clients, you can't raise your fees cus the market won't allow it, things start getting tough, you fear you can't go on, you sell at a profit. this is not success, it is failure. you saw no future in it, and u jumped ship

1MajorTom
09-22-2005, 01:23 PM
Mr Gedd,
Because I don't feel like starting my own thread, I'm sure you'll oblige and answer this.
Explain to me then who can leave the lawn care business and be considered a success? Would it be the amount of time they stuck with their biz, the amount of money they profitted from the sale... exactly what is your criteria for a successful exit out of the industry?????

And btw, your example is a poor one:
[Bobbygedd]just because someone sells thier business, at a profit, does not mean they succeeded. example: you start a business. you struggle, you build, you prosper. things start getting hairy, competition is rough, you are losing clients, you can't raise your fees cus the market won't allow it, things start getting tough, you fear you can't go on, you sell at a profit. this is not success, it is failure. you saw no future in it, and u jumped ship

So you are telling me that if someone sold a business in bad times and STILL made a profit, that's not successful??? hhhhhhhmmmmmm

John Gamba
09-22-2005, 01:26 PM
Mr Gedd,
Because I don't feel like starting my own thread, I'm sure you'll oblige and answer this.
Explain to me then who can leave the lawn care business and be considered a success? Would it be the amount of time they stuck with their biz, the amount of money they profitted from the sale... exactly what is your criteria for a successful exit out of the industry?????

And btw, your example is a poor one:


So you are telling me that if someone sold a business in bad times and STILL made a profit, that's not successful??? hhhhhhhmmmmmm


What a bunch of :dizzy:

LOLOLOL John

DLS1
09-22-2005, 02:31 PM
I don't understand how some of you are so "successful" when you clearly spend hours a day on this site. I would spend less time trying to convince people you don't know how great and awsome your biz is and more time growing it or spending time with your family. There's nothing wrong with posting from time to time and trying to help people and learn as well, but your just hurting yourself being a postwhore.

You thinking small potatoes as in being solo. You can post a lot if you have employees working for you and your in the office playing on the internet. :D

Also some people spend more time on the internet these days and less time watching TV, play Xbox,etc.

John Gamba
09-22-2005, 02:51 PM
Please tell us to get out????? If you cannot charge more what do you do????????? So you are telling everybody here that i come down the road, i go hay i'll give you x amount for your stuff, you say hell no i'm going to do this till i have nothing. Fine! Do it.


John

Let me say one thing. The low ballers and part timers are killing the business. I'm so glad i got out when i did. I have some interest in other lawn cutting businesses and i do still go out and have some fun. So please tell me how to get out of it all the way and still look successful?????

mbricker
09-22-2005, 02:55 PM
I have to agree with those who are saying that someone who fails in a business CAN still offer good sound advice--provided he really has learned the reasons for the failure. You just gotta filter it by the experiences you and more successful lco's have had.

But I wanna rag on the other extreme in this business. There are a bunch of guys in my area who have been in the business for years, they consider themselves successful, they will tell you how successful they are, they intend to stay 'til they retire or drop. Some of them are solo, several are running multiple crews. But if you look closely:

At one extreme, the beat-up '70's pickups they drag their aging Snapper or Toro mowers with, you know they live in the poorest parts in town, you have heard them say they don't have health insurance--or wouldn't have it if it weren't for the old lady's job at the poultry plant, etc. A lot of them will tell you the rate you charge is a rip-off and no one should have to pay that much for getting the lawn mowed. And while there are some boozers or slackers in the bunch, quite a few of them are sober, honest, hard-working church-going family men. But dumb as dirt. When I bought my first Z, the wife of one of these guys was working at the c-store where I bought my gas. She said enviously one day, "Jerry and I sure wish we could afford one of those, but we always seem to end up having to get the cheapest thing we can find at a garage sale." The guy had the largest church in the area, a couple of very large business complexes, and a couple hundred residentials. But somewhere he got the idea if he took in $20 an hour for himself and $10 an hour for each of his helpers, he was making GOOOOOD money. What finally broke him down was when his wife was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and the family had no health insurance.

Lumped into the same bunch, but with a completely different attitude about rates-- the ones that tell you proudly "I don't drop the gate for less than $30, and I make $50 an hour." But the job you were doing in 40 minutes for $25, they gladly took when you dropped it, and you see them there every week, an hour and 10 minutes and counting. They are more likely to have a shiny late model truck and high priced equipment, but probably always on the edge of getting it re-posessed. Your equipment dealer whispers "that guy isn't getting another dime of credit from me, and I doubt I'll ever see half of what he owes me." They bid 10 minute jobs at $30--"Sorry, ma'am, but that's my minimum," and spend more time in the truck than on the job because their customers are spread out so much. But they try to appear to be livin' large, and manage to float a step ahead of the creditors for years. Also, dumb as dirt.

BUT: Successes, every one of them, just ask them.

Bobby, imho your biggest problem is that you seem to have no gray shades in your visible spectrum. You got to see it all black or all white. I.e. we're a success in this biz if we stay and make big bucks; we're a failure if we bail, regardless of the reason or how much we made or what we sold for--except apparently you will allow an exception to that if one stays at least 20 years. In your universe everyone is either an idiot or a genius, nothing in between.

But hey, don't listen to me, I sold mine last fall to get a real job--not making as much, not having as much fun (well, that's debatable) not setting my own hours or making my own choices about whether I want a particular job or not.
BUT--having a company provide the health insurance I couldn't buy on my own at any price. Right now I'm not feeling like a failure.

xrayguy
09-22-2005, 03:05 PM
I really enjoy this forum and I always get a kick out of BobbyG's posts, and although I have never posted on this site I'm going to throw in my 2 cents worth here.
1. Bobby takes himself way to seriously.
2. Success and failure are relative, as is almost everything in life. One man's success is another man' s failure, and vice versa.
As for whether to take advice from someone you consider a failure (or from anyone for that matter), you have to take it for what it is worth and let it go at that.

Sean Adams
09-22-2005, 03:21 PM
just because someone sells thier business, at a profit, does not mean they succeeded. example: you start a business. you struggle, you build, you prosper. things start getting hairy, competition is rough, you are losing clients, you can't raise your fees cus the market won't allow it, things start getting tough, you fear you can't go on, you sell at a profit. this is not success, it is failure. you saw no future in it, and u jumped ship

This may be the dumbest thing of all 9,000+ posts you have ever said...

John Gamba
09-22-2005, 03:23 PM
This may be the dumbest thing of all 9,000+ posts you have ever said...


I cannot believe he even posted this bunch horse manurer. Bobby you have this very wrong.

John

bobbygedd
09-22-2005, 03:32 PM
no i don't have it wrong. jumping off of a sinking ship, does not make you a success. perhaps smart enough to bail when the time was right, but nonetheless, still the boat sank. now, if u can patch it up, stop it from sinking, and continue to sail, then, you succeeded. by the way, if i remember correctly, both you boys did indeed sink, so.......back of the bus please

Sean Adams
09-22-2005, 03:42 PM
"bobby"...that is your real name, right? You don't know me, you've never met me, and you know nothing about me - and you certainly have no clue about how I ran my business and what the circumstances were. My "ship" was far from sinking....every year my business grew and so did my bottom line. I made a business decision... Some of the most successful people in this industry started, operated, and sold their business. Heck, if I didn't pay taxes and insurance like you, I might have stayed in business.

You might know about printing and Coors Light, but from now on refrain from posting about things you have absolutely no clue about.

bobbygedd
09-22-2005, 04:04 PM
QUOTED BY ADDAMS (that is your real name, aint it?)"heck, if i didn't pay taxes and ins like you, i may have stayed in business." thank you, you MADE MY POINT. mr addams you simply just stated, that you couldn't run a legit business, and make it. yea, ok, now u guys are sounding like skinny little bobby from around the corner. would you like proof, that i pay taxes, and carry - business liability ins, commercial auto insurence. pesticide insurence, and workmans comp insurence? my my sean, i think i hit a nerve. i mean, to get you so upset, that you stoop so low, as to insinuate that i am running an illigitimate business? this was not my intention. i wasn't bashing anyone. if you would care to see the documentation, ask me in email, and i will be glad to prove myself. wait, wait, better yet. how sure are you, that i'm not running a legit business? care to wager, that i carry all of the above? why are u bashing me anyhow? this thread was not directed at you

John Gamba
09-22-2005, 04:05 PM
no i don't have it wrong. jumping off of a sinking ship, does not make you a success. perhaps smart enough to bail when the time was right,

Thank You. The company that got what i had could only see the bottom line(suite's) and when the contracts came up for renewal, They got under bid by Half!!!!! Think about it!!!!!.

If building a new a bigger home every two years is Failure, Then i'm the biggest failure here LOLOLOLOLOL

You are correct about the hot dog carts. Did you ever see someone say i can get that dog for less and go do it???? Think about it.

John

bobbygedd
09-22-2005, 04:07 PM
Thank You. The company that got what i had could only see the bottom line(suite's) and when the contracts came up for renewal, They got under bid by Half!!!!! Think about it!!!!!.

If building a new a bigger home every two years is Failure, Then i'm the biggest failure here LOLOLOLOLOL

You are correct about the hot dog carts. Did you ever see someone say i can get that dog for less and go do it???? Think about it.

John
john, john, john, i didn't say FAILURE, per say, in life. i only meant failing, in the lawn business. keep it in perspective

Sean Adams
09-22-2005, 04:19 PM
I never said I could not continue running my business legitimately... My point was I was accustomed to making a certain amount of money and with things changing in my market and within my business I made a decision - a smart business decision - something you know nothing about. I assume that if olderthandirt and mm lawn sell their companies, they too will be failures? Mark Cuban is such a failure... Please...think before you spurt out any more of your confusion.

Your verbal diahrrea makes you sound exactly the way you try and portray yourself on this forum...

And yes, I will call your bluff - let's see it.... My fax number is 412-415-1471.

Liability, Workers Comp, Auto, Withholding, Quarterlies... let's see your 75% net profit and loss sheet as well.... :p

rodfather
09-22-2005, 04:21 PM
This is getting interesting to say the least...

Cigarcop
09-22-2005, 04:25 PM
Sean,

Go easy he's not worth the headache, we all know he's an idiot.

git er done landscaping
09-22-2005, 04:27 PM
i hope to hear the outcome...

bobbygedd
09-22-2005, 04:27 PM
liability, wc, auto, and payroll for both my employees. when u recieve it, i'll be expecting a crisp $100 bill. deal?

Sean Adams
09-22-2005, 04:28 PM
waiting "bobby".... fax machine is not ringing....

4 1 2 - 4 1 5 - 1 4 7 1

In case you missed it in the last post....

NEPSJay
09-22-2005, 04:30 PM
This is getting interesting to say the least...

for sure.....better get me some popcorn!!!!!!!!!

Sean Adams
09-22-2005, 04:30 PM
Your proof of insurance is all fine and good... send it over....

but let's not forget taxes... you do pay your taxes... how else could you explain your 75% net?

Believe me cigarcop - not losing any sleep over this and I don't let things like this give me a headache, but I'm one who always believes in...

Don't sing it, bring it... He offered, I'm accepting.

John Gamba
09-22-2005, 04:32 PM
john, john, john, i didn't say FAILURE, per say, in life. i only meant failing, in the lawn business. keep it in perspective


No, i took my business from one mower to a year later buying a another LCO out. He let me pay monthly and i did. I got bigger thinking and doing it different then everybody else. I bought out smaller company's and then i had put them all together.

I do think your problem is that you can see a change, you just are not smart enough to do anything different. Lisen to sean if not me :rolleyes:

Take my advise!!! Hot dogs

John

bobbygedd
09-22-2005, 04:33 PM
the bet is$100 american dollars. i will provide proof if ins, and payroll info from both my employees. u will keep all info confidential, but u may tell the boys, that you recieved it. fair? agreed?

Sean Adams
09-22-2005, 04:37 PM
$100 - kept confidential, on my word....but you seem to be continually forgetting one thing that would show proof of a LEGITIMATE OPERATION...

UNCLE SAM'S CUT - TAXES

If someone does not pay their taxes LEGITIMATELY then wc, auto, liability is only a form of protecting yourself... not the whole enchalada

quit stalling and fax me all of the above

if you need the fax number it is above twice...

bobbygedd
09-22-2005, 04:39 PM
i will NOT send you tax documents. sorry. i think my point can be proven by my employees payroll info, and insurence documents. u want it, or not

rodfather
09-22-2005, 04:41 PM
Bobby, just scratch out your SS or Fed EIN number is all.

bobbygedd
09-22-2005, 04:43 PM
Bobby, just scratch out your SS or Fed EIN number is all.
no problem. fed ein, good enough sean? while you're at it, i'd love to see the payroll info for charles and jodi, as well as workers comp for both

John Gamba
09-22-2005, 04:44 PM
i will NOT send you tax documents. sorry. i think my point can be proven by my employees payroll info, and insurence documents. u want it, or not

I do belive you can trust him. He trust you :D

Duck Dodger
09-22-2005, 04:44 PM
From the few post of yours I have read even if you have insurance you seem to be lacking character and I would bet the house you don't pay taxes on 100% of the money you earn. And from my post that disapeared I was not thinking small potatoes I have been operations manager for a company that grossed 3.5 mil. I just think some of you guys are wasting you live in front of a computer. I geuss thats just my opinion though. " I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."

rodfather
09-22-2005, 04:48 PM
no problem. fed ein, good enough sean? while you're at it, i'd love to see the payroll info for charles and jodi, as well as workers comp for both

My understanding is that they do this without monetary compensation...or maybe I am wrong. Dunno

bobbygedd
09-22-2005, 04:52 PM
My understanding is that they do this without monetary compensation...or maybe I am wrong. Dunno
it's against the law, in new jersey, to sucker someone into working for your business, if it is a profitable business, and not pay them at least state minimum wage. ok sean, i agreed to send, what i agreed to send. now send me yours- payroll info, and tax info, as well as proof of ins. i'm waiting. put up, or shut up

Sean Adams
09-22-2005, 04:52 PM
Jodi and Charles are not my employees bobby...

Your SS#, EIN, etc... do not prove squat as stated in the email we exchanged. Like Duck Dodger said...

my fax machine is getting dusty waiting...

And like I said...

DON'T SING IT....

STILL WAITING

Sean Adams
09-22-2005, 04:55 PM
nice try bobby.... your excuses and stalling are getting old....several people are waiting with anticipation....

I inferred you were not running a legit operation by clearly stating that insurance and taxes needed to be paid...you said you could prove it and you even had the nerve to try and bluff me...called your bluff - send the proof or quit posting nonsense

rodfather
09-22-2005, 04:58 PM
Seems like Sean is looking for either Federal 941's and/or cancelled checks payable to "United States Treasury"...

Sean Adams
09-22-2005, 04:59 PM
I was wondering how you would try and weasel your way out of this...

Send the $100 cash to:

www.bushclintonkatrinafund.org or www.redcross.org

bobbygedd
09-22-2005, 04:59 PM
i'm waiting on yours. put up, or shut up. oh, and jodi and charles MOST CERTAINLY DO , do work, for your forum (your business, it's not a hobby, it's a business). care to share your written agreement that u have with them? it may look nice to you, but to the dept of labor, it is a blaitent attempt to avoid paying these people for thier services, as well as avoid matching thier payroll taxes. i'm waiting for YOUR PROOF. :cry:

Sean Adams
09-22-2005, 05:02 PM
Thanks for trying to explain it to him Rodfather...

and "bobby" the last person who should be proclaiming the know any of the tax and labor laws is yourself...

like I said...send the $100 to www.redcross.org in the name of the Unfortunate LawnSite Members who had to read your drivel

bobbygedd
09-22-2005, 05:04 PM
that's it, now you ARE SQUIRMING YOUR WAY out of proving your legitimacy. you are "the big guy" here. if u can't be legit, who can? we are patiently wait your proof. if you don't, i will have no choice but to challenge you, to a steel cage match. and to even your odds, you can have ric, jodi, and charles.

Cigarcop
09-22-2005, 05:05 PM
that's it, now you ARE SQUIRMING YOUR WAY out of proving your legitimacy. you are "the big guy" here. if u can't be legit, who can? we are patiently wait your proof. if you don't, i will have no choice but to challenge you, to a steel cage match. and to even your odds, you can have ric, jodi, and charles.


"WE" who's there with you......little Bobby from down the street?

Sean Adams
09-22-2005, 05:05 PM
To The members of LawnSite:

I apologize for getting so "involved" in such a heated discussion. I may have gone a bit overboard. I stand by my statements and let's all hope "bobby" does the right thing and honor his wager that he proposed...

git er done landscaping
09-22-2005, 05:06 PM
uh oh. is bobbygedd proving to be a sc...(i wont say it) thanks sean. i'm going to make a donation in your name!

bobbygedd
09-22-2005, 05:07 PM
to all the members of lawnsite. i apologize for taking part, in exposing mr addams for his wrong doings. he aint a bad guy. please send the $100, directly to me

Sean Adams
09-22-2005, 05:07 PM
bobby - you may find it amusing at times to act like a fool on this site - the entertainment is there...but this is a constant with you and it is getting old...

When someone calls you out you make excuses, try and turn the tables and then try and make a joke out of things....didn't happen here, won't happen here and if you are as "bad" as you claim, do the right thing, honor your lost bet....