Putting the man on the local fly-by-nights

[lakegastonla]

What can be done to weed out some of the super-redneck craftsman-riding low ballers that my area is crawling with? They are multiplying like rabbits! I think it has a lot to do with the area I live in, more than anything. These guys think they can just throw a mower and a trimmer on a 5x10 trailer and they are "in business." The resources I am considering are: The county tax assessor, the county extension agent(spraying/pesticide violations), and state government offices. I know someone will tell me that "If I weren't so far down the food chain, that I would have nothing to worry about" but then again, you don't live where I do, so HOW DO YOU know? Things are NOT good, here. Everybody thinks they are qualified to do my job. What to do?

[AVRECON]

Dude come down south a little further to Greenville. It will boggle your mind, every other truck has a trailor with a mower behind it. But I aint given up just yet, I was out on the hunt today and I will be again tommorow and for the rest of the year.

[skyphoto]

Hey lake,

My dad and I raised rabbits and when we had enough we would have em for dinner!!!! hehehehehe

Just a thought!But these guys are more like a bad virus....They spread and antibiotics dont work on them!!!!

Take care!!Smile and grind yur teeth at em!!

[Bob Shoaff]

First of all you are going to have to work the night shift. Clothes required would be some black atire and face paint. Now, you get your round up or a granular grass killer and put it on the yards these guys are doing. Then you take a pocket knife and slash their tires. Or maybe the old sugar in the gas tank. Spray paint we suck on their trucks also. It's nice to dream. In reality all we can do is be more aggressive, do better work and when p[eople are tired of the guys who wont get out of bed and mow the lawns and tired of them wanting their beer money every time they mow or they see those missing golf clubs at his yard sale, they will come to the real pros. ( you always PAWN the clubs. Never sell them at your yard sale!)

[Stinky]

You think it's bad in NC and SC! Come on over and visit east Tennessee

[kutnkru]

These guys think they can just throw a mower and a trimmer on a 5x10 trailer and they are "in business."...
The truth to this is YES they can. There is nothing we can do to stop them from spending a dollar on a dream. The local lottery encourages this mentality.

... the county extension agent(spraying/pesticide violations)...
Here is where you have grounds to stand on! If you see these newcomers breaking the laws, then yes by all means you have the right (and are obligated to do so asa professional) to contact the proper authorities.

... Everybody thinks they are qualified to do my job.
As we all know, not everyone is qualified to do your job. the only way for you to prove this is to become a member of an association, PLCAA, ALCA, State Turfgrass Assn., etc.etc.

If you truely care about your company image this much you may want to consider becoming affiliated with the bureaucrats at the local Chamber of Commerce. This way you can get your hand into the cookie jar and hope to pull a favor when needed. High Hopes Little Truth -unfortunately.

The best thing for you to do is to take the necessary measures to offer full service contracts to your clients and perform these services above the best of your ability. Then you will have started to make a name for yourself and the rest will fall into place over time.

You have to start somewhere. Where is up to you.:)

Good Luck this season!
Kris

[Richard Martin]

AVRECON wrote:

Dude come down south a little further to Greenville. It will boggle your mind, every other truck has a trailor with a mower behind it



I was down there last July and I can confirm what you are saying. I was on The Outer Banks on a mini-vacation and we drove around the bottom of the Great Murky Swamp, through Washington and on over to Greenville. We took the trip on Friday because I thought that would be the best day to see LCOs out. I have never seen so many riding tractors in the back of pickup trucks. They were everywhere. I did however see 2 "pro" crews in Greenville but that was it.

The good news is that there does seem to be a growing tech sector around Greenville and where there's tech there's money. My advise would be to find out where that money lives and target those areas. Remember, the cream always rises to the top but it can take awhile sometimes.

[Barkleymut]

There are plenty of guys with Crapsmans here but there are also a zillion real lawn companies in my area. But I still have plenty of business, don't worry about the residentials because few of them will ever see your worth. Target the commercial accounts and always try to talk to the owner. He/She will usually be aware of the fact that you get what you pay for.

[turfguy33]

I honestly believe that the virus is spreading, the lawn care craze is everywhere. In my neck of the woods, that's all you see. I hate it everytime I see one, cuz that means there's going to be one less yard for me to mow.
But then I ponder to myself, maybe they had a dream to own a lawn care business. I was there once, and I'm almost positive you were there too. Now I was fortunate enough to know how to grow, and keep growing my business. Quality equipment, Quality service and a desire to learn more everyday to make my business more productive, more profitable, and more customer appealing. Now that's just me. Just relax, and keep doing the thing you do best, mowing grass. Sooner or later two things will happen, the part-timers will quit, (must don't realize that the lawn care biz is Real Work), or they will get smart and try to gain productivity. In my experience, part-timers are out for roughly 2 to 3 years, then maybe 5% go full time.
As for me, I have a full-time job too. Not because of the money, but because my wife is now a mother, and staying with my future employee(or at least I hope so), and I'm in need of good insurance. I run a full-time lawn service too, but have a lead-man take care of the business while I'm gone. The only advise I can give you, or anybody, is if you give quality work, and a resonable price, you'll stay in business as long as you want..........just my opinion.,............Tim ......Ohio Valley Lawn Services

[awm]

Almost every trade now is losing much work to the do it your self person.Its my belief that the customers that use these low raters are never going to pay a full blooded lawncares rates anyway.If we succede in making it harder for them with regulation etc.There may be a do it yourself backlash Trend.This can eliminate 70 percent of the market.
I dont mind saying the less govt regulation in my work or private life the better.As far as going after some one personally.You are talking the law of the jungle and there is always a bigger predetor around the corner.
Of course there is the cowards way with roofing nails, sand inthe motor, or better yet just steal his stuff.
I charge a pretty fair amt myself I just hope we dont
regulate ourself out of a pretty good thing.
A lot of regulatory laws mean just the bigger companies survive to devide up the shrinking pie.You solos and
two truck operations need to think about that.NUFF SAID

[lakegastonla]

Problem is, it's not just the newbies that make it hard on the rest of us, it's television, too! Wife was watching Christopher Lowell show the other day. He did a segment on landscaping and it was crazy! He was telling his audience that they could save money by getting a landscaper to go to a nursery with them and pick out the plants. Then, get them back to the house to "set" them where the holes are to be dug for plants. Homeowner does the rest. I can't wait for someone to ask me that one.

[Island Lawn]

They are everywhere here too.
I take them seriously, but I dont feel "threatened" by them. Maybe I just dont know any better.

I agree that the pro ass is a big step toward seperarting ourselves as professionals.

But if our customers dont realize the difference, they can easiliy be swayed by a cheaper price. They dont always know that even w/ lawn care, you get what you pay for.

I beleive if we take the time to communicate w/ our customers (face to face preferably), we are giving ourselves the opportunity to sell our professionalism (knowledge, experience, ethical, insured, licensed,....)

After the customer understands the diff, and they still go w/ the cheaper price, dont be so quick to blame the scrub.
Scrubs fill a niche and a quality benchmark for us and our " quality customers to realize.

There are quality customers, and there are scrub customers.
Some people are meant to be together!

If a customer later realizes that scrubs dont do a professional job, then they may call a pro

In nature, there is this little fish that spends its entire life swimming beside sharks. It survives on what falls out of the sharks mouth. The shark isnt threatened by this fish.
The shark is a skilled hunter.
The fish is a skilled opportunist/scavenger/thief.
It seems that the shark could spend a bit of energy, turn around, and eat this fish. But he dosent. If he did, another would immediately take its place. The shark's instict is to just continue hunting.

Maybe thats not a good analagy?

Ok. there was this dog, pig, and chicken and they set out.......

(What I'm trying to say is, WE, as professionals, have to educate the consumers)

[Edited by Island Lawn on 03-17-2001 at 10:18 AM]

[gusbuster]

Originally posted by lakegastonla
The resources I am considering are: The county tax assessor, the county extension agent(spraying/pesticide violations), and state government offices. I know someone will tell me that "If I weren't so far down the food chain, that I would have nothing to worry about" but then again, you don't live where I do, so HOW DO YOU know? Things are NOT good, here. Everybody thinks they are qualified to do my job. What to do?

lakegastonla
You're on the right track with your thought process, but to really get the local goverment's attention you need to put together a group (3 to 4 company reps ) and petition(file a formal complaint) your tax enforcer,business liscense enforcer ect.. The goverment can not and should not ignore your group. Also, county or parish council meetings should be a good place to voice your goup's view. Make sure you point out how much tax revenue they are loosing to these fly by nights. One very very important thing first though, MAKE SURE YOUR OWN HOUSE IS IN ORDER.

Do a search on business liscense and you'll find a thread that I started last year. A group of us went to our local city council and had a private meeting with the ciy manager. Last year, I know our city collected extra taxes because they nailed a bunch of companies for not having local business licsens. This year, unless they got new trucks or in jail, I don't see the same low ballers around here anymore. Don't think you can get rid of them. You Can't.
John

[bob]

Larry Stone had made the comment on another thread ,that he would take pictures of these scrubs with his digital camera and turn them in to his local authorities. MOst small lawn businesses in my area seem to be ligit. Not too many Crapsman mowers on trailers.

[LScom Addict]

I will agree that we all basically started with a dollar and a dream. The main difference is that in talking with the new group's that infiltrate the system annually I have found that 9 out of 10 have no interest in the education, the IPM standards, let alone making it profitable. To them it just beats flipping burgers because they like to be outside. I would personally rather see them earn the same $10 to $12 per hour in a warehouse environment.

That's my problem with them as a group. If I find an individual who is willing to learn all they can and seems to be sincere, I would help them with blurbs of information here and there to help get them facing the right direction. I am not opposed to the competition factor, I think in many ways it helps us out. I am not referring to the prices they charge, just the number of contractors out there. What I cannot understand is the unnecessary stereotype they continue to generate for our line of work, or the Industry as a whole.

[teamII]

awm,
what do u mean by do it yourselfers?
i work alone when ever i can and if i need help i turn to temp services to do the no brainer work (shovel, dig etc.)i have been doing this for five years and have more woke than i can do ( i gave away all my reidential and now only do commerial) i will put my work beside any of the large companys work ( seems as though high school kids or collage drop outs are doing there work any way) i work 24/7 building my business ( all the big mowers around here have had all there work handed to them in the past) now they have to out work and out hustle me and so far i am one steep ahead ...so if i took your statement wrong please forgive me


good work is not cheap.......cheap work is not good

[kutnkru]

Originally posted by awm
Almost every trade now is losing much work to the do it your self person. You solos and two truck operations need to think about that. NUFF SAID
I am a two turck maintenance outfit. EXACTLY,(because Im curious) how are you justifying the Do-It-Your-Selfer, The Solo Operator, and The Two Truck Mowing Crews in the same category???

Do I agree with you that regulation is a PITA??? You had better believe it!!! I cannot tell you how tired I am of MR. DEC rummaging thru my outfit every spring to determine Im right on track, and then wants to pull me over in the field to bust my nads!!

If you are a Do-It-Your-Selfer, this is intended to imply HOMEOWNER, not Solo Operator. I think you have got your terms mixed up.

What I am confused about is that the size of operation should have nothing to do with it. If you are legitimate you are legitimate.

Why is that I am creating a better environment for the regulating of our Industry than you?? But wait, I for got you just graduated to the ranks of Solo Operator from your previous Do-It-Your-Selfer status since you finally purchased some commercial mowing equipment.

Please explain, cause I havent got a clue where your coming from??

[Hillbilly]

Like stinky said, come over to Tn. You are shot on site if you dont pull a trailer with mowers.

[awm]

I readmy post again and see where you guys get the idea I was calling Solos diys.That was not my intent at all.
The do it yourselfer is the guy that decides he cando it himself.Its my opinion that with enoughregulations, fees.
and red tape,Lcos will be forced to charge more and more.
This is when I am concerned there may be a backlash of folks who would normally be our market deciding to just go back to doing it themselves.Nothing wrong with it but it doesnt help the trades ,only lowes and HD.tHATS A DIY
person.AS FAR AS Im concerned the solo operators
are that way because they like to do things there way.
At least thats why I am.
Now if anyone is for more and more regulation,we just have to agree to disagree.Like everything else these regulations eventually benefit the huge operations the most.
An example of misguided regulation,is laws enacted because of child abuse.Its a terrible thing.But the cure we have come up with has put the govt in charge of our families.
Be careful what you allow to happen .It could come back to bite you.The socialist love it but then they dont value individual freedom as I DO.I apologise if my points are not clear .This form of communication is not my strength.I wont proof this as im getting knocked off

[Bassman]

Perhaps I'm in the minority opinion here but I don't begrudge anyone that is willing to do whatever, (legally), to earn some extra bucks or put food on the table. How can we pass judgement on someone because of their appearance or vehicle or equipment? Who knows what their situation may be? Many of these folks may have lost a career job, have a child who is sick and they have medical expenses and have no insurance, etc.
I feel if you operate YOUR OWN business properly, there will always be enough customers to enable you to have as successful a business as you are willing to put in the hours for.
Time to step off the soapbox now.
Just my 2 cents. (Or less).

[lakegastonla]

Bassman, stick a cork in that bleeding heart and listen to what this thread was originally about! I was not talking about guys running a legit business, not at all! I can and will compete with these types with NO PROBLEM!! My problem is with the guys who run a trailer POSING as a business, but yet the county tax assesor has NEVER heard of them, and they pay no taxes, no insurance, no professional association fees, no state or federal taxes on x-tra income! Every dime they make goes to pocket! If you don't have a problem with people like that, then maybe you should try to operate in my area for a while!

[thelawnguy]

Once you get 3 90 degree days in a row these fly by nighters will be back in the air-conditioned spice factory.

get used to the idea of these types, they will only increase in number with the economy hitting the skids and folks being laid off.

Spend more time building your own reputation rather than trying to knock somebody else's. They will eliminate themselves.

[lawrence stone]

LakeGas if someone does not pay taxes what concern is it to you? It takes guts to buck the system and not act as a government mule. These people have nothing thus have nothing to lose. The feds or state cannot but a lien on nothing.

There will always be an underground economy.

You are wasting your time on matters you cannot control.

Move up the food chain by getting a pesticide license and
provide services others can't offer. You have no future
if you have a mowing only operation.

Pretty soon you will want drug dealers and bookies to pay taxes also.

Please don't hate me for I am beautiful!!

[George777]

lakegastonla, you make me wonder! My partner and I own a 21" craftman,and a 48" wb, but we are just starting out. I think many loss sight at how it was when they just started. I get frustrated at those who knock others equipment. I'm as proud as can be about the eqipment I've got. My partner and I however have our business lisence and insurance and we are awaiting for our s-corp papers. This site has taught me that many will fall buy the waistside and that buy doing a good job will get me more work.

I would love to own a walker or exmark ztr, a toro selfpropelled (my CRAFTSMAN is not even selfpropelled)mower. These things will come with time.

As for those running around town without lisences and insurance, they don't even come close to you and the knowlege that you have. I bet you have forgot more then they know.

I can understand your frustration, but I think you are better then that. You know what you are doing and I bet the quality of your work speaks louder than your words.

Maybe many of those so called scrubs are like myself trying to do the best they can with what they got. I find it hard to judge others unless they talk to me and then it might only take a few seconds to find out the truth.

I have to admit I have underbid jobs because I did not have a clue how to bid. After underbidding I would kick myself in the butt.

lakegastonla don't take me the wrong way, but not every one who does not have ztr's toro's and 16" trailers are 21" craftsmen rednecks.

[lsylvain]

You guys should see it here in WV.

I moved my business to WV because I notice that there wasn't a single lawn business within 30+ miles, and only one within 60.

When I got here i put out more posters than I could count, phone book, the works. when grass season rolled around I didn't get a single call. when i was mowing the few accounts i had picked up from my boses mother (richest family in the town) I started noticing truck after truck with mowers in the back. On one of the streets just down from my house, everyone has someone cut their grass all different people. all of them look like crap but my 3 on that street. So natually all the nieghbors start asking me for estimates. I gave them what I thought to be cheap prices since i needed the work and they were just right down the street. They could not beleive that I would charge that much. I told one that I would do her yard for $35 she complained but accepted, it took me over an hour and a half to cut. The next week a 40 year old was cutting it he charged her $15, he had pulled his old beatup pushmower (the kind that were old 10 years ogo) on a bicylce across town. can you believe that?

They are all like that here. Half of them are on wellfair or disability.

The up-side is they make me and my customers look really good.

You'll lose a job or two from them now and then. What I have found is after they take it over and do a crapy job people see the difference between you and them. If gives the customer and his/her neighbors a free before and after picture.

As far as getting rid of them. Report them to the local, state, fed government. It is imposible to be a low baller and pay your taxes ect. If someone is underbiding you and they are on the up and up you need to concider trying to lower your overhead because that is what competition is all about.