Why so many z riders?

[dmk395]

Increasingly I have seen a myriad of landscapers on zRider mowers. Sure they look faster than a traditional walk behind unit, but I bet unless you have huge yards, then they really arent worth the added expense. Does anyone else follow me, or am I just too cheap?

[awm]

USING A LT I FIGURED ABOUT 25 PER HR.
THIS CHANGED TO BETWEEN 40-45 WITH Z.
No other change just the z.Pretty big boost to production.

[dmk395]

A guy in town that I know bought two of them, and seems to service them alot because of employees smashing them into trees. I don't have the greatest expertise on the issue, hence to first post, but I really do like simplicity of the gear drive walk behind mowers.

[skyphoto]

Im just a solo op. So I figure the less I have to walk or stand while mowing the more I can save myself to trim prune etc.I like my 721d Hopper and would not trade it for anything....Maybe Im just a bumb...You are prob. healthyer though!!! For each his own!

[Keith]

You may change your mind. There is something to be said for not being totally beaten at the end of a July day.

[bob]

Going from a 48" walk behind to a 60"ZTR is like having 2- 48" walk behinds! Not only are they faster, but having a ZTR will allow you to take on lawns that were too big with just a 48". I had a 48"JD for 6 years before I got my first Grasshopper. I wish that I had bought one right from the get-go! Now I run 2 Grasshoppers and there isn't a large area that I have to turn away. Work smarter, not harder!

[skyphoto]

Bob,
Work smarter, not harder!

AMEN hehe You said it!

[Edited by skyphoto on 03-17-2001 at 04:50 PM]

[Eric ELM]

I have to agree with Bob, the production is about double or more going from 2-48" W/B's to a 60" ZTR. You need 1 less employee and after a hot day you are not nearly as tired after doing twice the work that you did before and all by yourself.

[HOMER]

The answer to your own question, your just cheap!:D

[Lee Homan]

A little off the subject but have you guys seen how many companies are making Z riders now? MTD, Husqvarna, Cub Cadet the list goes on and on. Even Bush Hog has one out, can you believe Bush Hog making a Z rider? It seems like everybody is trying to get a piece of the pie.

[Mark]

Some of the jobs i use to cut with one of my 52"walkbehinds can now be done in less than half the time. But don't get me wrong i love my walkbehinds i have alot of hilly accounts that can only be cut with a walkbehind and there great paying accounts. But i would have to give up some of my accounts if i didn't have a ZTR.Im solo with 51 accounts and a third are commercial,some 4to5 acers.So thank the Lord for the engineers who came up with these great time savers and they sure give you a easier day. Marks Mowing Service

[MIDSOUTH]

CHEAP!!!!!!

[Roger]

I'm at a crossroads in strategy. I have a 36" Exmark hydro, 21" hand mower. I consider the next step in migration to be a stand-on, not a ZTR. My choice would be a 52" machine.

I see very little being said here about stand-on (Great Dane Super Surfer or Wright Stander), but much talk of ZTR. Also, why have only two companies choose to produce a stand-on mower? These two facts seem to say that stand-on mowers are not a good investment and have no future.

What does anybody think about this? Are ZTR's so much less tiring to operate? I would think production, maneuverability, speed, etc would be similar. I'm concerned the weight of a ZTR would put it at a disadvantage, that is, wider tires, more weight, would not leave as good of result.

Obviously, price is a consideration, but perhaps I'm missing something else that is obvious.

P.S. I like those productivity increases over w/b that have been mentioned!

[Bassman]

Answer: Increased productivity. The most precious commodity we have is time. More work accomplished in less time= more $$$. Pretty basic.
PLUS... Feel much less tired at the end of the day.

[joshua]

bassman, also the quality of cut is the same if not better by the z. don't forget most of us guys are geting older and want to ride to save ourselves to trim and blow off the drive. i mean come on after 3 years of the walk behind i know my 18 year old body needed a break from walking and just ride.(lol) just messing my productivity went up about half when i added a 52" lazer z, and i had 2 w/b before. thats a world of difference to me.

[jrodgers]

Does any of your custommers ever complain about using a Z on their properties(residenals) I have picked up some accounts that people complain about the guy before them using one not to many though. Right now I use a 52 , 48 and a 32. And also what kind of Z does everyone like. Around here Bobcats(Ramsomes) ,Toro, Snappers seem to be the most popular Lesco has one too but it supposedly isnt to great.

[Eric ELM]

I haven't had any complaints on using a ZTR. I don't think anyone here doesn't know what I use, but it I had to pick what your choices are, I would pick the Toro. Test them all out, see what you like best. We have discussed the Viper many times here, but I liked Lazer's statement about them the best. I think it went something like this, "If we all told how we really felt about them, we would probably all get banned". (We miss you lazer) A friend of mine that joined Lawnsite.com had one, maybe we can get his comments on this subject.

Someone did say they are now making a fabricated deck for them.

[Roger]

Eric: I was told at the Western PA Turf show two weeks ago that Exmark Lazer will be offered with a stamped deck. The person telling me was a dealer who handles both Exmark and Toro. He did not say when the new offering would be available.

[John DiMartino]

Roger,I tired a pass on a great dane stand up.it was a 52,and had an 18hp briggs.It bucked quite a bit,I think it would be a handful on bumpy or rolling lawns.My Diixe chopper could run rings around it,as far as productivity.I think the idea is neat,but I think the ZTR is the way to go.

[jrodgers]

Well about the Lesco Viper they are now made with a fabricated deck and there were other improvments made to them. I knew when they first came out they were going to have problems witht them( first year is the worst alot of the time hopefully not with the 2500hd DM)

[dmk395]

How is the weekly maintenance on the ztrs compared to a commerical walk behind, easier, harder, the same?

[jasonp]

because we buy them, sounds like a good reason for so many.
Your just CHEAP

[Barkleymut]

Your not cheap, you just don't want to make 25% MORE MONEY! If you can get the work a 52-60" ZTR will be the best investment you can make in your business period!

[Fantasy Lawns]

when I first started I had a 36" Snapper belt drive ...on every yard ...than got a 54" hydo ....year later got a walker than up'd the belt drive to a hydo ...year later got another walker ...we used them on 60% of jobs ....got a 60" ztr last year ....we have grown ...but that one ztr does the work of both walker's (on open terrain) .....oh yea the 36" hydo we use on less than 5% of our work at this time

[dmk395]

Sounds like if I pick up a few more accounts I will be making a ztr purchase.

[David Gretzmier]

Thoughts- the dane surfer will go on slopes no one would ride on, but you will decrease the life expectancy of your knees w/ the ride. riders coninue to get faster and better, wider tires and diesels and liquid cooled gad are becoming more common. Take a look at the new ferris 4000z. It has 31 hp, independant suspension, and i figure w/ low pressure tires like the dixie and a suspension seat, MAN- that would be a caddie ride. Who'd EVER want to walk, unless it was a small yard or a 36"gate? Dave g

[OBRYANMAINT]

i have two ztr's and would not be with out them but a walk behind will always have a spot on my trailer too. they are cheap backup that you are not afraid to abuse

[dmk395]

So I take it that you all feel one can make back the initial investment in a ztr rather quickly?

[Eric ELM]

I was able to double the amount of lawns I could do by going from a 60" tractor that went 12 MPH to a 60" Chopper that goes 10 MPH. The ease of making a turn is what doubled the production. Then I got another 60" Chopper and doubled that production.

[ETturfman]

I'm about to buy an Exmark Lazer HP 48" primarily because of the tendonitis that my Honda 36" WB has caused me in my arms. Not to knock Honda, it's a fantastic mower, but the pistol grips are tough to use. I'm still going to keep it for a few backyard jobs, but I'm expecting to increase my productivity with the Z rider. A question to everybody - I do mainly residentials, do I need a 52" instead of a 48"? The yards range from very small to an acre in size. Thanks.

ETturfman

[brucec32]

Originally posted by dmk395
A guy in town that I know bought two of them, and seems to service them alot because of employees smashing them into trees. I don't have the greatest expertise on the issue, hence to first post, but I really do like simplicity of the gear drive walk behind mowers.

I used to think the same thing too. "how much better could it be? My belt drive moves pretty fast". Well, when you factor in higher mowing speed, zero turning ability(fast), and less fatigue, a ZTR is much more productive than you'd think. And yes, on small lawns a ZTR may not save that much time, and it may even be too big for some lawns(constant turning might damage turf), but on open areas and even landscaped areas that are big, it is more than worth the price. I do a mix of big, medium, and small lawns, so I used my ZTR for the big and medium, and a 21" trim mower for real small ones or lawns requiring the best cut possible on rolling terrain.

If you get even just 2,000 hours out of unit, and a ZTR costs $4,000 more than a comparable gear drive, that's only $2/hour for the better performance. Meanwhile, you can produce much more than $2/hour more in revenue. And that ztr that you paid $4,000 more for will also be much more valuable at resale time. So you make more money, work less hard, and have equipment capable of handling the really big jobs if they come around.

Your time (or an employee's) is worth much more than a mower even would. The key is to buy the most efficient mower for your needs. I would say belt drives make decent backup and gated area mowers.

That said, I am looking at stander type mowers to bridge the gap between the big ZTR and smaller belt drive 36" and 21" mowers. They mow as fast (some say faster) on some types of small or crowded lots, with possibly less turf wear, and in a pinch can handle bigger properties at high speed too. Just with more fatigue than riders. They also trailer easily and are just handy looking.

A good mix for my use would be my Lazer Z with a 36" stander on the trailer for small properties and gated areas. It would also fill in on larger properties if the turf was too wet and soft for the bigger mower, and could be set up to mulch, with the Lazer dedicated to discharge (or vice versa) A 21" sp toro would fill out the lineup for really small lawns and ones picky about the cut.

I would defintely find no reason not to replace a belt drive with a stander at least, unless you do a lot of really crazy hills.

[Equipguy]

Well worth the investment. Increases production, saves time and the maintenance isn't an issue. We ride as much as possibile and keep the walk behinds on the trailer.

[Dan1944]

I am a Solo, I started out with a 38" Cub LT hydro, then added a 38" Craftsmen hydro as a back-up. I now have a 52" Hustler Mini Z and a 36" Gravely Gear WB ( for smaller yards ). I sold the craftsmen within one week of picking up the Z. I dont use the Cub for cutting any more, took deck off and use it for hauling a small yard trailer for mulch and cleanup work. Once you use a Z , I dont see how you can go back to an LT. I picked 10 new accounts within one month of my Z purchase I now have a waiting list. , why ? simple what took me let's say 1 hour seat time on a LT now takes 40-45 minutes, plus time saved trimming because of Z's no turn raduis. With pratice and changing your cutting pattern a Z does not have to create rut's and divot's.

Dan the lawn care man

52" Hustler Z
36" Gravely WB
38" Cub LT
Lot's of Echo
Some Sithl
21" Snapper Commercial
21 " Honda 216
6 x 12 Triple Crown Trailer/w racks and tool cage
96 S10
Licensed and Insured

The more toys the better

:blush:

[Lawn-N-Garden Guy]

ET TURFMAN,
I thought about the same thing a year ago cause I was using a 44" Toro walk behind with a velky but with all the lawns I was doing it was beating the crap out of me at the end of the day and the machine so thats why I purchased a 48" Exmark ztr and still have the 44" for small lawns.This works well and not as hard on the equipment.

[bob]

Another old post dug up, from 2 years ago.

[goose]

I have 5 Z'S and quit a few midsize walkbehinds because we need them . If we didnt we would still be using 21", you are frugal.Its a lot of money to buy these big units , but we have all been at that crossroad and after we bought the first one we seen how great they make our business run. Frugal

[IBGreen]

Sure would hate to have to use a wb on these 20 acre accounts down here.