Drawing up contracts...

[The Curious Porpoise]

i'm all new to drawing up contracts for service... next year i hope to have a large percentage of mowing customers down on contract--collecting in person each time i want money just takes up too much time. when i'm writing up a contract, is there special wording or verbage i need to use in order to make it an official contract. i've heard in the past that sometimes in a court dispute that a "contract" gets thrown out as evidence because it is not official... right now i am trying to keep overhead low so i would like if at all possible to avoid working w/ an attorney at this juncture--maybe 2007... so anyway, can any one help me out?

[N.H.BOY]

I'll be the first to tell ya to do a "SEARCH" for this. There are loads of diff. types and info on this. I myself have written "agreements" and not contract, sounds alot better and also the customer does not get freaked out with the word "contract" comes up

[olderthandirt]

You can buy a general contract form from Staples, or Office Max but I would strongly urge you to pay for the services of a good business law attorney. What you spend now might save you thousands next yr.

[6'7 330]

I can’t stress enough to get a lawyer to look over your contract; he can make sure your tail is covered in the fine print on the back of the contract lol.

Hey Mac ,guess who is going to be drawing up contract’s for us lol.

[olderthandirt]

Duwee, Cheatum & How LPA :D :D

[6'7 330]

Duwee, Cheatum & How LPA :D :D
You forgot -HMCWGAW(How Much Can We Get Away With)lol

[The Curious Porpoise]

how much is a lawyer gonna charge me to "look over" my contracts... don't know if it'd be quite worth it next year... right now i have 25 accounts, and by next year i hope to have 60-70. maybe i should bite the bullet and collect the $ w/o contracts even i though i hate doing that, and then just wait til '07 to start w/ my contracts... i don't know.....

[olderthandirt]

how much is a lawyer gonna charge me to "look over" my contracts... don't know if it'd be quite worth it next year... right now i have 25 accounts, and by next year i hope to have 60-70. maybe i should bite the bullet and collect the $ w/o contracts even i though i hate doing that, and then just wait til '07 to start w/ my contracts... i don't know.....

About $250 an hr to look it over and make the changes neccasary to protect you. Expensive ? If your sued or get ripped on a job thats over $250 and need to collect you won't think its expensive. payup

[6'7 330]

About $250 an hr to look it over and make the changes neccasary to protect you. Expensive ? If your sued or get ripped on a job thats over $250 and need to collect you won't think its expensive. payup
Listen to wise old Mac, the cost is minimal considering you get your ass covered, and WILL save you money in the long haul. We have a contract each for maintenance and installs.

[LB1234]

right now i am trying to keep overhead low so i would like if at all possible to avoid working w/ an attorney at this juncture--maybe 2007... so anyway, can any one help me out?

IMHO, you are playing with fire. It is tough to have the best of both words. If you want to be assured (Well, not 100%...) the contract is legit and you will get paid then you really should consult an attorney. I find it hard to believe you can't afford a few hundred bucks until 2007 for an attorney to review your contract. Sorry :rolleyes:

[GreenUtah]

I would like to add to this line of discussion that virtually no contract of any sort is "bulletproof" if the opposing party is motivated enough. It becomes a game of weighed risk vs. reward when attorneys get involved at ANY juncture. The best you can hope for is to make too many obstacles for there to be any reward at the end. That being said, as far as collections go, I service agreement or work order outlining everything the job entails and the price, signed before work begins will always stand up as a vaild agreement between parties. I stand on a less than 1/2 of 1% uncollectibles over the past 10 years dealing with thousands of customers of every shape and size. In addition, as far as collectibles go, it's better to keep a relationship, even if work ends, than burn your bridges with threats if you expect to keep a good percentage of the final balances. It costs to be nasty. Risk vs. reward.

[olderthandirt]

That being said, as far as collections go, I service agreement or work order outlining everything the job entails and the price, signed before work begins will always stand up as a vaild agreement between parties.

That is a contract, your just calling it something else.

[GreenUtah]

actually, that is merely part of what a contract would entail. A true contract would need to entail all foreseeable conditions and remedies, including penalties and damages, including behaviors and methods, equipment and insurances, licensing etc. Those who participate in governmental or fortune 500 contract work recognize the difference between an outline of services with the agreed upon charge and a 200 page(my largest encountered so far) contract. There is a gigantic difference.

[olderthandirt]

A contract can be as simple as "Iwill do this for x amount of $$$ and you agree to pay me X amount of $$$" That is why I advised the use of an attorney versed in business law to draw one up to close the loop holes & add the conditions and remedies etc. 200 pages or 2 sentences its still a contract the rest are amendment to a contract same as a change of work order.

[LB1234]

actually, that is merely part of what a contract would entail. A true contract would need to entail all foreseeable conditions and remedies, including penalties and damages, including behaviors and methods, equipment and insurances, licensing etc. Those who participate in governmental or fortune 500 contract work recognize the difference between an outline of services with the agreed upon charge and a 200 page(my largest encountered so far) contract. There is a gigantic difference.

I disagree completely. A verbal agreement can be a contract. "I will cut your lawn for $50. Agreed? Yes." There is your contract.

[GreenUtah]

I see that once again the point of the intital post falls by the way side to argue details(risk vs. reward). Ask your attorney what your odds are if you are forced to court with a verbal agreement. With a work order. With a full on contract, as I defined above. Would you sell your business and write a check for your mortgage balance against a two sentence agreement? A verbal one? How about if the buyer was an attorney looking for an investment? Ask yourself what the purpose of your agreements are then go back and reread my first post, please.

[olderthandirt]

I see that once again the point of the intital post falls by the way side to argue details(risk vs. reward). Ask your attorney what your odds are if you are forced to court with a verbal agreement. With a work order. With a full on contract, as I defined above. Would you sell your business and write a check for your mortgage balance against a two sentence agreement? A verbal one? How about if the buyer was an attorney looking for an investment? Ask yourself what the purpose of your agreements are then go back and reread my first post, please.
Reread it and all you did was point out the obvious. Of course any contract can be challenged in a court as most things can. And then you stated you opinion of whether you feel its better to go to court or walk away and keep the customer happy that you did'nt enforce your "service agreement or work order outlining everything the job entails and the price" :dizzy: And sorry I don't buy your 2nd post I've done my share of government and municipality work also and theres no way in he!l that they have 200 page contract! They may be 200 pages but thats the full specs sheet along with the contract. Who would even bother to read a 200 page contract if thats all it was. Your trying to say that a service agreement and a contract, whether verbal or written is not the same, but your wrong. There the same, one may be harder to enforce in a court than another but there still contracts. And as far as the original thread all I've posted was to help a guy out so he does not get burned, not to try and impress him with the legalities of contract law.

[GreenUtah]

Mac,
My apologies if I'm not being clear. My point to him was not to walk away from any agreements to keep a customer happy. It was to keep his customer and their network of connections in mind when resolving disputes, regardless of what you have on paper. Also, realizing that using an attorney up front is absolutely no guarantee that you won't be using him again in the future to enforce the very same issue, eating up any potential profits and even turning out a bigger loser on a job when a little smoothing might have cleared the situation. I'm not a lawyer nor trying to sell him legal services, so could not care less about anyone being impressed by a system designed to leach. It's a management issue. Risk vs. Reward. There is never a risk staying with polite and courteous. As far as contract lengths go, go ahead and head over to the GSA site and pull an awarded contract for a secure military installation. Or even the specs. The specs ARE a part of the contract, any contract,as they are an outline of the services to be performed, along with all kinds of stuff that you can't even imagine pertains to anything that you will ever do for them, but will still be included and need to be sifted through before you ever stick a signature on it. anyway, my apologies once again if I wasn't clear in my first post, Mac. Hope we're on the same page now.