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Smalltimer1
09-27-2005, 11:53 PM
I want to make my new F-250 a little more like me (loud and proud!). The old F-250 gasser had glasspacks, but IIRC GP's won't work on a diesel very well.

I'm thinking about an MBRP kit for later on, but right now I'm debating on having the muffler cut out and putting a "test pipe" in its place until I can swing the kit. This mod is commonly called the "muffler delete".

I've heard it will cost anywhere from $30-$50 depending on where I go.

Does anyone know what it will sound like compared to a kit or stock?

I've asked on The Diesel Stop, but I'm wanting some unbiased opinions.

Guthrie&Co
09-27-2005, 11:59 PM
I have a 99 psd with 4 inch exhaust all the way from th turbo back. i still have the muffler. i cant really tell that much diffrence in sound. but i havenoticed a pick up on top end and the egt's wont get as high anymore. although without the muffler it sounds great. i have heard several around town that dont have the muffler and i like it. i just dont need allthat niose. but if you going to mod the exhaust i would get the 4 inch downpipe and go 4 inch all the way back. it will help you out bigtime. the turbo's life hinges on heat and the 4 inch pipes will reduce that bigtime.

Smalltimer1
09-28-2005, 12:08 AM
Yeah I was just thinking of running muffler-free until I get the required $600 for the MBRP kit I would like to get.

Guthrie&Co
09-28-2005, 12:11 AM
i would look up itp. inovative truck pruducts. i got my downpipe from them for about 140. just the downpipe

lwcmattlifter
09-28-2005, 12:15 AM
Lose the muffler. If you can weld and have a chop saw it's not hard to make your own exhaust. There is no way in he$$ I would pay $600 for an exhaust system for a truck.

Dirty Water
09-28-2005, 12:16 AM
My friend's cummins has 4 inch without any muffler or cat. From a distance, he sounds like a approaching dumptruck.

Smalltimer1
09-28-2005, 12:22 AM
I don't think it will pass inspection if I take out the cat.

Guthrie&Co
09-28-2005, 12:34 AM
deisels dont have cats. its nothing more than another sound bafffle. and a diesel donesnt have the same emission tests as gasser does. in the state of nc we dont have to run mufflers on diesels.

lwcmattlifter
09-28-2005, 12:41 AM
Mine has a cat. Some of the 99-03 Superduties have cats also. I wonder how Ford decided some should have cats and some don't?

Guthrie&Co
09-28-2005, 12:49 AM
then how does the cat work on a diesel scince it doesnt run on gas?

Smalltimer1
09-28-2005, 12:50 AM
I know one of the exhaust components is a resonator.

Guthrie&Co
09-28-2005, 12:52 AM
that is what everyone mistakes for the cat.

lwcmattlifter
09-28-2005, 01:03 AM
No mistakes here. I had one plug up on me last summer.

Dirty Water
09-28-2005, 01:28 AM
then how does the cat work on a diesel scince it doesnt run on gas?

Catylitic converts are simply a catylist that changes Nox to N2 and 2CO to 2co2, They probaly use a different material on diesals.

lawnmaniac883
09-28-2005, 10:35 PM
Cats work based on heat. The hotter a cat gets, the more crapola it will burn off, diesels put out lossa heat, so you have no problem burning off more crap. BTW, emissions controls are useless, I have a 04 dodge diesel that will smoke like a frieght train, love makin people behind me hit the brakes heh.

Eclipse
09-29-2005, 10:20 PM
that is what everyone mistakes for the cat.

Some diesel have cats and some have resonators.

All Dodge Cummins trucks built from 1/1/94 - 1/1/98 had CATS.

Guthrie&Co
09-30-2005, 01:41 AM
i had a 95 dodge with the cummings. i comppletly rebuilt the exhaust and it didnt have a cat from the dealer. it had the resonator

PLM-1
09-30-2005, 02:24 AM
04.5 and up Duramax Diesels have cats and egr's...damn the EPA.

Eclipse
09-30-2005, 08:03 AM
i had a 95 dodge with the cummings. i comppletly rebuilt the exhaust and it didnt have a cat from the dealer. it had the resonator

Unless someone changed it along the way, it was a CAT although it may have looked like a resonator. It was a requirement for those production years. The resonators found on the 1998-2002 Dodge Cummins trucks look very similar to the CATs found on the 1994-1998 models. It would be very easy to mistake the two.

BTW - It's Cummins not Cummings :)

FrankenScagMachines
10-01-2005, 08:47 PM
I did a muffler delete on my Cummins. I had pipe layin around from an exhaust project on a gasser. Stock Cummins pipe is like 3 1/2" and I had a leftover peice from my 460 pipes, its a big improvement but I still want bigger pipes but its just too expensive. I mean, maybe worth it, but theres just too many other things you can do for free on a Cummins to get way more power :D :D :D

Guthrie&Co
10-01-2005, 11:03 PM
yeah like sell the cummins and get a powerstroke. thats a sure fire way to get more power!

lawnmaniac883
10-01-2005, 11:33 PM
BWAHAHAHA,HAHAHA,HAHA,HAH!!! Scaby is one funny guy you know, funny how a powerstroke has 2 more cylinders and still cant compete with a cummins inline 6. Whata joke, buy a powerstroke, HAH!

Eclipse
10-01-2005, 11:45 PM
yeah like sell the cummins and get a powerstroke. thats a sure fire way to get more power!

You're kidding right.

Speaking of 12 valve Cummins, as is the Franken's 94 is, if a guy knows what he is doing he can easily get 60-80 hp out of that truck (maybe a little more depending on if it is an auto or a stick) without spending a dime.

The Powerjokes are no competition for a Cummins. A D-Max is some stiff competition though.

BTW Franken, on a close to stock HP engine the larger 4" pipe will not do much, if anything, over the free flowing stock 3" pipe.

Smalltimer1
10-02-2005, 11:26 AM
BWAHAHAHA,HAHAHA,HAHA,HAH!!! Scaby is one funny guy you know, funny how a powerstroke has 2 more cylinders and still cant compete with a cummins inline 6. Whata joke, buy a powerstroke, HAH!


Sorry you feel that way....

Smalltimer1
10-02-2005, 11:27 AM
The Powerjokes are no competition for a Cummins. A D-Max is some stiff competition though.

That's not been the story at these truck pulls....

BTW Franken, on a close to stock HP engine the larger 4" pipe will not do much, if anything, over the free flowing stock 3" pipe.

The bigger pipe will lower EGT's and also lower back pressure, which means more power if the intake can be upgraded to allow more flow there.

UNISCAPER
10-02-2005, 11:31 AM
Smalltimer:

We took a muffler from a naturally aspirated 7.3 Diesel, opened the seam carefully and removed all the guts. The truck got just a tad louder, but what I saw immediately was a mile to the gallon difference. Later that year one of the guys snagged the back pipe backing in so I had a friend of mine bend up a 4" exhaust and ran it to the back of the dump body as a straight pipe, no muffler. That barked. We were ableto set off every car alarm we passed without adding much cab noise at all! And we got yet another mile to the gallon bringing the truck to 10.0 MPG, which ain't bad for a pre turbo F-450.

One thing I would really check on is your warranty issues. Gutting a muffler
should by no means cause a warranty to go void, but, techincally, the factory could void one. I have a friend who gutted his CAT, and the muffler, then lost a turbo at about 7,000 miles. The two were completely unrelated, but, when the warranty adjuster saw his truck, he got boned for the new turbo at $1,800.00. I am trying like hell to get GM to allow me to install a verticle exhaust on a 6500 because the fumes affect the guys working at the rear of the truck....They are dancing around that like kids, which does not make me happy at all.

I think the exhaust issues aredealer things more than factory, but I would check that pretty closley. As all factories tighten their belts in the wake of slow sales, you are going to see more and more chicken sh*t excuses for rejecting claims with all brands. Just an FYI....

Smalltimer1
10-02-2005, 11:39 AM
I don't plan to remove the resonator/cat--whatever it happens to be, just to remain legal and still be within warranty, because from what I'm hearing Ford won't void a warranty for a removed muffler unless it is the source of the problem--which is very unlikely in any case. I agree though, the attitude of the dealer has a lot to do with how warranty will/can be handled.

I'm also going to stay away from chips for the time being even though my dealer is mod-friendly.

Eclipse
10-02-2005, 12:15 PM
That's not been the story at these truck pulls....


If you do to any national or regional truck pull the Cummins and the D-Max's rule the day. The local pulls, like at the county fair, are ruled more by the most popular local brand of trucks than they are by anything else.



The bigger pipe will lower EGT's and also lower back pressure, which means more power if the intake can be upgraded to allow more flow there.

Read my post more carefully. I said on a close to stock HP truck (actually 3" is good to around 300HP or so) a free flowing, meaning the stock muffler and CAT/Resonator have been removed or modified, stock 3" system is more than adequate and will not offer any performance decrease from a 4" system.

Will EGT's be lower between a 3" free flowing system and a 4" free flowing system.... At stock to ~300HP the EGT difference will be minimal (50 degrees or less). The HP gained in this scenario will be minimal as well and barely measurable, typically it is about 5-7HP.

This is on a Dodge Cummins powered truck. I don't know what you Powerjoke guys are dealing with so maybe a 4" system will help you out more over a good 3" system but this is simply not the case on a Cummins.

One more thing, more air (in or out) does not necessarily equal more HP, especially on a stock or lower HP truck :)

Guthrie&Co
10-02-2005, 12:16 PM
You cummins guys are a joke. i have owned both dodge and fords. with the cummins and the powerstroke. i dont see how you guys can say they dodge is a better truck than the ford. my dodge was the weakest thing i have every owned. the ford for me was clearly the stronger truck hands down.

Eclipse
10-02-2005, 12:23 PM
I feel that brand loyalty is based mostly on what you have the best luck with. I personally will never own another Ford, but I have family and friends that swear that their Powerjoke is the last truck they will ever own, even after I whoop them in a race and get better mileage than them. To each his own.

I know I would not want to own a 6 liter Powerstroke no matter how brand loyal I was :) I feel the 7.3 is a decent engine though, just not a Cummins :)

Modified pulling and racing trucks are a different story. As I already said the Cummins and D-Max's are running the show in those arenas

Guthrie&Co
10-02-2005, 12:34 PM
racing trucks and pulling trucks are a diffrent breed. trucks are meant to be trucks not race cars

Smalltimer1
10-02-2005, 09:06 PM
This is on a Dodge Cummins powered truck. I don't know what you Powerjoke guys are dealing with so maybe a 4" system will help you out more over a good 3" system but this is simply not the case on a Cummins.

I bought a POWER STROKE, I paid good money for it, I am happier with it than I would ever be in a Dodge...you Cummins guys must have a serious inferiority complex.


The more air you can get in, is more power you can get out, but along with that the amount of fuel introduced into the system must increase as well. They are almost directly proportional.

Smalltimer1
10-02-2005, 09:19 PM
I feel that brand loyalty is based mostly on what you have the best luck with. I personally will never own another Ford, but I have family and friends that swear that their Powerjoke is the last truck they will ever own, even after I whoop them in a race and get better mileage than them. To each his own.

I know I would not want to own a 6 liter Powerstroke no matter how brand loyal I was :) I feel the 7.3 is a decent engine though, just not a Cummins :)

Modified pulling and racing trucks are a different story. As I already said the Cummins and D-Max's are running the show in those arenas


For the last 4 years here, no Cummins or Duramax has made it to 300', something usually gives with them first, either being the transmission (mostly Dodge/Crappins) or the turbo (Duramax). I've only seen maybe a couple of Fords not make it, usually caused by hitting the rev limiter.

I wouldn't own a Cummins because the truck that surrounds it is not worth the trouble. I wouldn't mind having a Cummins in an older F-250 from the 70's, but I really don't understand why people like you write off the Power Stroke as nothing, because if International uses it in their trucks, then it must be something going right with them.

Mine gets a consistant 20mpg on the open road and 16-18 in town. My friend at church only gets 14 in his Cummins going downhill with a good tailwind.

Maybe sometime when I get into some extra change I'll stick a Power Stroke out of a wrecked truck in a Dodge just for kicks. I think it'd be worth it.

Eclipse
10-02-2005, 09:24 PM
The more air you can get in, is more power you can get out, but along with that the amount of fuel introduced into the system must increase as well. They are almost directly proportional.

You seem to like to go back and add comments after the fact to make yourself appear correct all long. The above is different than what you said the first time.


The bigger pipe will lower EGT's and also lower back pressure, which means more power if the intake can be upgraded to allow more flow there.


No mention of the need to increase fueling too. That was my point. On stock trucks more air in and more air out does not necessarily increase HP because they are not overfueled to start with.

BTW - I'm glad you have a Powerstroke and are happy with your truck. That's all that really matters right.

Eclipse
10-02-2005, 10:11 PM
For the last 4 years here, no Cummins or Duramax has made it to 300', something usually gives with them first, either being the transmission (mostly Dodge/Crappins) or the turbo (Duramax). I've only seen maybe a couple of Fords not make it, usually caused by hitting the rev limiter.


As I said the county fairs are ruled by whatever is the post popular truck in the area. Have you ever been to the Diesel National @ IRP or Scheids Diesel Extravanganza or any other DHRA or NTPA truck pull? You would be surprised how the competion stacks up. Just so you don't think I have an inferiority complex, the D-Maxs really are a hell of a truck and put down some pretty good times at the track and do some damage on the pulling track.


but I really don't understand why people like you write off the Power Stroke as nothing

I already agreed that the 7.3 Powerstroke is a decent engine. I would drive one but personally I feel the Ford around it is a POS. Like I said brand loyalty with trucks seems to be whatever you have the best luck with. I did said the 6.0 Powerstrokes were a POS and I still stand by that comment.


because if International uses it in their trucks, then it must be something going right with them.


So? Freightliner uses the Cummins, and Ford offers the Cummins in their F650 trucks.

Ironmower
10-03-2005, 12:35 AM
I already agreed that the 7.3 Powerstroke is a decent engine. I would drive one but personally I feel the Ford around it is a POS. Like I said brand loyalty with trucks seems to be whatever you have the best luck with. I did said the 6.0 Powerstrokes were a POS and I still stand by that comment.

I feel exactly the opposite, the last Dodge I ran in the fleet back in '03 was the biggest pile of sh*t I have ever seen--including a Cummins that cracked its head while pulling an 8k dump trailer with gravel. No more Cummins and no more Dodges in my fleet.



So? Freightliner uses the Cummins, and Ford offers the Cummins in their F650 trucks.

Ford also uses Caterpillar diesels which is far superior to any Cummins product.

I strayed thinking that maybe I could cut costs by going with the cheaper Dodges with the Cummins and boy was that a mistake. ;)

They should call those Cummins Cumaparts.

Eclipse
10-03-2005, 12:49 AM
Ford also uses Caterpillar diesels which is far superior to any Cummins product.


CAT makes a great product. The reason I did not mention them in the previous post is they do not offer a product for the full size pickup market. If they do someday it would sure make things interesting :)

Guthrie&Co
10-03-2005, 02:11 AM
I had heard a few days ago that ford was coming out with a 6.4 psd is 07. also ford was going to offer the cat in the 550. those are some nice options . i wonder what the 6.4 will be like.

not a fan of the 6.0 by the way just the 7.3's i like

Ironmower
10-03-2005, 10:09 AM
I had heard a few days ago that ford was coming out with a 6.4 psd is 07. also ford was going to offer the cat in the 550. those are some nice options . i wonder what the 6.4 will be like.

not a fan of the 6.0 by the way just the 7.3's i like

The Cat C7 is way too heavy and way too long to fit in a F-550. It would be nice but I just don't see it happening.

I've heard a lot about the upcoming 6.4 as well. It is supposed to be a twin turbo IIRC, pushing close to 400hp and 700lb. tq. It also will have HPCR injection.

I run 6 trucks with 6.0's in the fleet and none of them have had problems. They all get at least 2mpg better (when empty) than any of the old 7.3's did, have a lot more power, and no pesky CPS issues. I used to keep an extra CPS all the time in each of those trucks just in case one went bad so my crews could fix it themselves and avoid costing me a tow bill. I'm glad I have guys that know how to take care of the equipment.

lawnmaniac883
10-03-2005, 10:41 PM
This stuff is so funny yall know, sayin one engine is superior in every way to the other yadda yadda yadda. All of the companies put out a good engine in their own department, I am favorable of cummins because they do this for a living. Saying that a caterpillar is sooo much better than a cummins is just not right, they are equally good engines. For now, to each their own but their aint a need to argue over a damn engine. If it runs thats all that counts right? BtW, fella got stuck outfront of my house in a 7.3 liter Ford powerstroke, older model white dually. He had one bad glowplug, engine would not start, burned the starter up laying on it for 40 seconds. Im sorry but a low mileage engine shoudlnt need extra heat to start every dang time, thats ridiculous.

Smalltimer1
10-03-2005, 11:06 PM
This stuff is so funny yall know, sayin one engine is superior in every way to the other yadda yadda yadda. All of the companies put out a good engine in their own department, I am favorable of cummins because they do this for a living. Saying that a caterpillar is sooo much better than a cummins is just not right, they are equally good engines. For now, to each their own but their aint a need to argue over a damn engine. If it runs thats all that counts right? BtW, fella got stuck outfront of my house in a 7.3 liter Ford powerstroke, older model white dually. He had one bad glowplug, engine would not start, burned the starter up laying on it for 40 seconds. Im sorry but a low mileage engine shoudlnt need extra heat to start every dang time, thats ridiculous.

That sounds more like a Cam Position Sensor than a glowplug.

Dirty Water
10-03-2005, 11:28 PM
My '90s Duetz 3 cylinder doesn't even have glow plugs. Starts up without Ether in 5-10 seconds in even the coldest weather. Modern diesal designs from europe that use electronic high pressure common rail injection don't have glowplugs either.

Glow plugs and mechanical FI are outdated. I'm really surprised that Ford and Chevy are still using them.

Guthrie&Co
10-03-2005, 11:28 PM
i would agree with the cam sensor. those things can go anything no matter what

UNISCAPER
10-04-2005, 12:24 AM
Yeah but have you checked the glow plug postion sensor right next to the rooten tooten valve for 12 volt current? :):):)

Smalltimer1
10-04-2005, 12:36 AM
Glow plugs and mechanical FI are outdated. I'm really surprised that Ford and Chevy are still using them.


Ford and Chevy do not use mechanical injection, in fact Ford was the first to go electronic with the Power Stroke in 1994 when they discontinued the IDI's and introduced the PSD's and all Ford diesels since then have all been Electrical DI's.

I think Chevy went electronic in '95 or '96 with the 6.5 and Dodge finally went electronic in '98 with the start of the 24v Cummins.

Dirty Water
10-04-2005, 12:49 AM
Ford and Chevy do not use mechanical injection, in fact Ford was the first to go electronic with the Power Stroke in 1994 when they discontinued the IDI's and introduced the PSD's and all Ford diesels since then have all been Electrical DI's.

I think Chevy went electronic in '95 or '96 with the 6.5 and Dodge finally went electronic in '98 with the start of the 24v Cummins.

Sorry, I meant Ford and Chevy still using glow plugs, not mechanical FI. I know that common rail is the most "common" (haha pun) technology now.

But with the ability of electric FI, glow plugs should not be needed.

lawnmaniac883
10-04-2005, 10:34 PM
Hmmm, so it was a bad cam sensor you thinky? This explains why with a new starter he drove away IN his truck not pushing it right? :waving:

kc2006
10-12-2005, 12:00 PM
Oh how did i miss this thread!

I originally had deleted the cat on my 96 f250, and the sound was no different but I got way better mileage. Then I took the exhaust down, chopped it all up and made a straight pipe 3.5" (like stock) and had it exit before the rear tire. Well, it sounded pretty good, but it lost BIG power. It was a dog. Funny though because normally a turbo will give an engine all the backpressure it ever needs and you would want the most free flowing exhaust possible. Not true in this case.

I ended up getting a "moto-blue" exhaust, which is really a diamond eye exhaust. All the ford guys on the diesel stop and ford-trucks.com hate the company, but its just because most of them are upper class guys that have no clue how to work on a vehicle. The exhaust is supposed to be sold to shops that will install it. Therefore you have to trim the rear pieces a couple inches to get it to fit perfect (they're just made longer then what you need incase you have to do something different). Took me maybe 30 mins longer to install it due to this. The truck runs really good now, EGT's are WAY down because I got rid of the flat downpipe, and the truck sounds really good now. You can hear the turbo ALOT better now, and its just got an overall good sound. The exhaust was 240 bucks only too, thats the part i liked best :D Also my fuel milage is about 21-23mpg around town with 248,500 miles on the truck.

I'm trying to find a 97 f250 or f350 for another truck, that will get 5" or 6" exhaust and a lot of modifications :D I want a work truck that can run low 11's

Smalltimer1
10-12-2005, 02:54 PM
Oh how did i miss this thread!

I originally had deleted the cat on my 96 f250, and the sound was no different but I got way better mileage. Then I took the exhaust down, chopped it all up and made a straight pipe 3.5" (like stock) and had it exit before the rear tire. Well, it sounded pretty good, but it lost BIG power. It was a dog. Funny though because normally a turbo will give an engine all the backpressure it ever needs and you would want the most free flowing exhaust possible. Not true in this case.

I ended up getting a "moto-blue" exhaust, which is really a diamond eye exhaust. All the ford guys on the diesel stop and ford-trucks.com hate the company, but its just because most of them are upper class guys that have no clue how to work on a vehicle. The exhaust is supposed to be sold to shops that will install it. Therefore you have to trim the rear pieces a couple inches to get it to fit perfect (they're just made longer then what you need incase you have to do something different). Took me maybe 30 mins longer to install it due to this. The truck runs really good now, EGT's are WAY down because I got rid of the flat downpipe, and the truck sounds really good now. You can hear the turbo ALOT better now, and its just got an overall good sound. The exhaust was 240 bucks only too, thats the part i liked best :D Also my fuel milage is about 21-23mpg around town with 248,500 miles on the truck.

I'm trying to find a 97 f250 or f350 for another truck, that will get 5" or 6" exhaust and a lot of modifications :D I want a work truck that can run low 11's


Got a link to that company's website?

It seems that if it isn't a Banks, MBRP, SCT/ID, or some other sponsor of their site, they don't like it and will talk trash about the product over on TDS.

kc2006
10-12-2005, 04:37 PM
yea I know. I stopped going to those sites for about a year.

ford-trucks.com really made me mad. I posted pictures of a cold air intake I made with a piece of pvc and a k&n filter, cost 3 bucks for the elbow and the cost of filter. I explained it and what was needed. I go back on there like a month later, everyone is talking abotu this "kwik filter" so I'm trying to find out what it is. This guy who posts a crap load on there took my idea and said he invented it and now they love the guy. I pulled up the post one time showing that I posted the picture before the guy even started going on the site.

On the 99 and up's it takes a straight piece of pvc or 4" exhaust and on the older trucks its a 45 degree angle. The guys on there were so close minded they couldn't think of how to make their own instead of paying 250 bucks for one.

As for the exhaust, I believe RPMoutlet.com sells it. They all hate that place because they have poor customer support. Before you buy anything they're great, but go to complain and they wont even answer the call. If your even remotely mechanicly inclined, save the money and just go with that exhaust. I also found a place selling 94-97 stainless exhausts for 400 or 450 shipped, this was last year though so i can't remember who they were, the exhaust was magnaflow but don't remember the seller.

DBL
10-12-2005, 06:43 PM
cut the cat out but put a peice in between welded because youll get pretty bad gas millage just cutting behind the cat

Lawnworks
10-12-2005, 06:55 PM
That's not been the story at these truck pulls....

Huh? I have seen Ford's win local pulls, but in competitive pulls Cummins and Chevy are dominant. Sorry bud powerstrokes are just not capable of making big power.

Lawnworks
10-12-2005, 06:59 PM
I'm trying to find a 97 f250 or f350 for another truck, that will get 5" or 6" exhaust and a lot of modifications :D I want a work truck that can run low 11's

Well you are going to need a Dodge or a Duramax truck and about 20k. As far as I know a Ford has never run 11.99, if so it is Diesel Innovations's "snow white."

Lawnworks
10-12-2005, 07:00 PM
racing trucks and pulling trucks are a diffrent breed. trucks are meant to be trucks not race cars

Right... if I pay for the truck it will be whatever I want it to be! What is wrong w/ a truck that hauls 20k and runs 12s? Too functional?

kc2006
10-12-2005, 07:53 PM
Correction sir, i've seen powerstrokes running well into the 10's. I believe the quickest (and I dont do alot of reading about this because I don't really care about diesels that much) was 10.40's.

I own fords, I am a chevy man though, the ford was cheap, it does me well. Chevy didn't STAND A CHANCE in the 90's hands down, dont tell me other wise because i dont care and won't listen. The older chevy's sucked BAD. Thats why I'll stick with fords when its 90's trucks. Now then if i bought a brand new truck it would be a chevy, d-max's are good stuff but I'd buy it because i'd get it cheap with discount and i like the truck better. Overall best is no doubt in my mind cummins. BUT dodge trucks suck. Hands down they are the worst truck. Just the 96 or whenever they had the new body style and up, they suck. Again, don't care if others have good luck, i've worked on way too many to even want one.

kc2006
10-12-2005, 07:55 PM
Oh and I don't do piddly sh!t little modifications. the 97 will have twin turbo's. I didn't mean I'd buy it, put baby swamps in it and a programer. It would be serious modifications. Need a fast truck to pull the fast street car if it breaks. :D

Smalltimer1
10-12-2005, 10:10 PM
Huh? I have seen Ford's win local pulls, but in competitive pulls Cummins and Chevy are dominant. Sorry bud powerstrokes are just not capable of making big power.

Power Strokes are capable of big power, it just takes more $$$. I love it when a Dodge nut says ignorant remarks about the Power Stroke.....it just makes me chuckle to prove them wrong.

Here's a video of a Power Stroke spanking one of those heavily modded Cummins. Watch it towards the end when its after dark.

http://www.diesel-central.com/Video/Movies/Shasta_4-23-05/Anderson_Pull_4-23-05.wmv

Smalltimer1
10-12-2005, 10:18 PM
Well you are going to need a Dodge or a Duramax truck and about 20k. As far as I know a Ford has never run 11.99, if so it is Diesel Innovations's "snow white."


Here's a Stroker that runs 11.42...

http://www.dangertomanifold.com/videos/F350Run.wmv

yardfarmer
10-12-2005, 10:39 PM
Take off the muffler, any diesel sounds better w/ no muffler. def dont buy a 600.00 system.

lwcmattlifter
10-12-2005, 10:55 PM
Here's a Stroker that runs 11.42...

http://www.dangertomanifold.com/videos/F350Run.wmv


Bad news bud, that F-350 is owned by a guy that goes by MadDog, it's powered by Cummins with twins.

mrusk
10-12-2005, 11:13 PM
Bad news bud, that F-350 is owned by a guy that goes by MadDog, it's powered by Cummins with twins.


Haha put that in your pipe and smoke it smalltimer!

Matt

kc2006
10-12-2005, 11:22 PM
Ok now I gotta find the footage of the 10 second one.

I had footage of a few low 11 second fords but deleted them.

You guys that are so stoked about cummins crack me up, your engines are really great, wish i had one, but your truck it self sucks. I don't get it? Do you guys pull the engine out of your early 90's truck and just keep putting it in a new dodge every year after the last one falls apart?

lol sorry i had to :D

UNISCAPER
10-12-2005, 11:32 PM
Honestly, after having had several mountain motored drag cars that ran into the 7's, and two top fuel drag boats hitting over 225MPH, I see nothing even the slightest bit enteraining about any truck belching black crap out of a pipe attempting to go fast.

Sorry to be such a poop, I'm just not seeing the excitment at all.

kc2006
10-12-2005, 11:34 PM
haha Bill! I'd imagine you wouldn't see it interesting after running 7's. With my car bound to be in the low 9's (street car) I for some reason still have to tinker with the truck. I actually had to stop spending money on stupid stuff for the truck because it was taking away from the car. It was addicting for some reason.

Eclipse
10-12-2005, 11:49 PM
BUT dodge trucks suck. Hands down they are the worst truck.... Again, don't care if others have good luck, i've worked on way too many to even want one.

As I said earlier the "best" truck is whatever we have luck with. For me it was not a Ford :)

Eclipse
10-12-2005, 11:51 PM
Power Strokes are capable of big power, it just takes more $$$.

I agree with this to a point.

What is the highest dyno proven Stoker HP? I have no idea.

Lawnworks
10-12-2005, 11:54 PM
Correction sir, i've seen powerstrokes running well into the 10's. I believe the quickest (and I dont do alot of reading about this because I don't really care about diesels that much) was 10.40's.

I own fords, I am a chevy man though, the ford was cheap, it does me well. Chevy didn't STAND A CHANCE in the 90's hands down, dont tell me other wise because i dont care and won't listen. The older chevy's sucked BAD. Thats why I'll stick with fords when its 90's trucks. Now then if i bought a brand new truck it would be a chevy, d-max's are good stuff but I'd buy it because i'd get it cheap with discount and i like the truck better. Overall best is no doubt in my mind cummins. BUT dodge trucks suck. Hands down they are the worst truck. Just the 96 or whenever they had the new body style and up, they suck. Again, don't care if others have good luck, i've worked on way too many to even want one.

Correct me with what? Show me ONE ford in the 11s w/ a powerstroke in it!! I believe the 10 second ford you might have seen was maddoggs... he ran a 10.52 i believe w/ a cummins of course!

Eclipse
10-12-2005, 11:56 PM
Ok now I gotta find the footage of the 10 second one.

I had footage of a few low 11 second fords but deleted them.

I was unaware of any 10 second Fords although I really don't follow the Fords stuff too terribly much.

I know of at least two fully bodied, street legal Cummins powered Dodge trucks that run deep into the 10's and two more that runs shallow 10's. I'm sure there are more.

12's with a Cummins is nothing to turn nowdays but 11's are still a challenge. Man things have come a long way in just a couple years.

Lawnworks
10-12-2005, 11:57 PM
Power Strokes are capable of big power, it just takes more $$$. I love it when a Dodge nut says ignorant remarks about the Power Stroke.....it just makes me chuckle to prove them wrong.

Here's a video of a Power Stroke spanking one of those heavily modded Cummins. Watch it towards the end when its after dark.

http://www.diesel-central.com/Video/Movies/Shasta_4-23-05/Anderson_Pull_4-23-05.wmv

Ignorant!! You don't even know wtf is under the hood!! Powerstrokes are not capable of big power... why the hell do you think Richard Madison went to the huge expense of replacing his powerstroke w/ a cummins?

kc2006
10-13-2005, 12:04 AM
lmao, lawnworks, your making some ignorant statements "powerstrokes are not capable of big power"?????????????? There are powerstrokes in the low 10's and its not that maddog guy (although he's smart, good engine in the better truck). Everything is capable of making big power, its just the cummins are a well known engine that has alot more aftermarket parts for it. Its like putting a small block chevy vs say a pontiac engine. Both can make the same amount of power, but the chevy is WAY cheaper there for more popular. Doesn't mean pontiacs can do it.

I agree with you Eclipse, all racing has come a long way. You got guys running around with 8 or 9 second cars on the streets that are actually street cars and not the full out race cars of the early 90's that had a lisence plate on it.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 12:10 AM
http://video.ls1tech.com/Player.asp...69-658C08AD329F

Now this Dodge has 795hp and ran a 10.40 @ 129 last weekend.

Alright kdc define big power. Big power to me is 700-1000hp. Powerstrokes are not capable of this power. Show me one dyno sheet. Show me one video. You cannot... and until you can, you are wrong. David at diesel innovations has the most powerful 7.3 in the nation and I think it barely hits 600 w/ nitrous, so don't make claims when you do not have any FACTUAL evidence to back it up. My statements are ignorant?? Where is your evidence or are you just going to run your mouth as before?

Guthrie&Co
10-13-2005, 12:14 AM
lawnworks.....shut the hell up!

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 12:16 AM
Haha put that in your pipe and smoke it smalltimer!

Matt

That was before the Cummins was put in....

kc2006
10-13-2005, 12:19 AM
Yea dude, your just making yourself look like a fool getting all worked up about this. Have you ever even raced a truck? A car? Anything fast? Or do you just sit there and adore these trucks that are getting alot of money dumped into them? I can't find the video or the website to the one that did go 10's, been looking for about an hour now but I know its out there. I also know theres a 3 turbo older body style ford that is making very big power too. I talked to him personally way back but again can't find him.

Anyway, I'm not going to sit and fight about this, I answerd the original question, your just being a moron trying to sway us all to love dodges, makes no sense. So shut up already and quit running your mouth about stuff you don't even deal with.

Excuse me now, I must got start fights with local guys and challenge them to races with my friends car that is fast. DUR

kc2006
10-13-2005, 12:21 AM
That was before the Cummins was put in....

OH GOD WATCH OUT THATS SLOW FOR A CUMMINS! 11.40'S! OMG EWW SLOW. (sarcasm)

I'd have to agree with you since that truck is now running 10.59 with the cummins.

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 12:22 AM
Ignorant!! You don't even know wtf is under the hood!! Powerstrokes are not capable of big power... why the hell do you think Richard Madison went to the huge expense of replacing his powerstroke w/ a cummins?


Power Strokes are capable of big power--as I stated earlier there is more of an aftermarket for the Cummins because its been around longer.

There are several Power Strokes over on TDS in the 800hp+ range, as I said, modding any PSD or Duramax gets expensive. Those guys have close to 4k in mods alone, from intakes, to injectors, to exhaust as well as internal modifications.

The only reason the Cummins is capable of such power is #1--the ones that are making the power are the old mechanical injection 12v engines, #2--they have no electronics that interfere with the ease of changing performance parameters, #3--since there are no electronics, they are cheaper to hop up.

Power Strokes have ALWAYS been electronically injected and controlled, and therefore makes them much more difficult to tune.

The old IDI diesels just weren't efficient enough to hop up into the high range of power, IIRC, the most powerful IDI I've seen is around 300hp, basically just scratching the surface of what the other engines are capable of.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 12:25 AM
Yeah I have built 3 cummins engines kdc. Would you like to see the 710 hp dyno graph? Do you want to see the stack coming through the hood? I am making a moron of myself? You cannot even find evidence to back your claim up? I will say it again... no powerstroke has EVER run 11s.

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 12:27 AM
http://video.ls1tech.com/Player.asp...69-658C08AD329F

Now this Dodge has 795hp and ran a 10.40 @ 129 last weekend.

Alright kdc define big power. Big power to me is 700-1000hp. Powerstrokes are not capable of this power. Show me one dyno sheet. Show me one video. You cannot... and until you can, you are wrong. David at diesel innovations has the most powerful 7.3 in the nation and I think it barely hits 600 w/ nitrous, so don't make claims when you do not have any FACTUAL evidence to back it up. My statements are ignorant?? Where is your evidence or are you just going to run your mouth as before?


600 is chicken crap for power on a PSD.....there are 800hp+ PSD's out and about, they just don't go around trying to win pissing matches...

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 12:28 AM
Yeah I have built 3 cummins engines kdc. Would you like to see the 710 hp dyno graph? Do you want to see the stack coming through the hood? I am making a moron of myself? You cannot even find evidence to back your claim up? I will say it again... no powerstroke has EVER run 11s.

Wonder why you had to build those Cummins??? What broke??

Guthrie&Co
10-13-2005, 12:29 AM
Here is by beef with dodges and the pre ejack cummins

at 100k on the infamous 12v cummins here is the repair/ replace list

oil pump- lost pressure on topside due to oil rifle plug falling out
inj pump- cummins in greensboro turn it up and cracked the plungers
3 fuel shut off solenoids
throttle return springs
fuel sending unit
3 sets of brake calipers- kept pulling when u hit the brakes
roof leaked
door leaked
dash fell apart
radio quit
stater went out before 100k
weak weak weak
fuel return lines.
king pins and bearings on the front axles
seats tore
headliner fell
throttle would stick
probably more but i cant remember that much crap.
by the way this truck was well taken care of and all the maintance was performed. bottom line. dodge sucks

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 12:31 AM
Power Strokes are capable of big power--as I stated earlier there is more of an aftermarket for the Cummins because its been around longer.

There are several Power Strokes over on TDS in the 800hp+ range, as I said, modding any PSD or Duramax gets expensive. Those guys have close to 4k in mods alone, from intakes, to injectors, to exhaust as well as internal modifications.

The only reason the Cummins is capable of such power is #1--the ones that are making the power are the old mechanical injection 12v engines, #2--they have no electronics that interfere with the ease of changing performance parameters, #3--since there are no electronics, they are cheaper to hop up.

Power Strokes have ALWAYS been electronically injected and controlled, and therefore makes them much more difficult to tune.

The old IDI diesels just weren't efficient enough to hop up into the high range of power, IIRC, the most powerful IDI I've seen is around 300hp, basically just scratching the surface of what the other engines are capable of.

Show me one 800hp Powerstroke. Where is the dyno graph? Yet another claim w/ no evidence. And you are right the electronic injection. Fords have a fueling problem over 400hp. Electronic injection is no match for a mechanical injection pump.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 12:34 AM
Here is by beef with dodges and the pre ejack cummins

at 100k on the infamous 12v cummins here is the repair/ replace list

oil pump- lost pressure on topside due to oil rifle plug falling out
inj pump- cummins in greensboro turn it up and cracked the plungers
3 fuel shut off solenoids
throttle return springs
fuel sending unit
3 sets of brake calipers- kept pulling when u hit the brakes
roof leaked
door leaked
dash fell apart
radio quit
stater went out before 100k
weak weak weak
fuel return lines.
king pins and bearings on the front axles
seats tore
headliner fell
throttle would stick
probably more but i cant remember that much crap.
by the way this truck was well taken care of and all the maintance was performed. bottom line. dodge sucks

Well they all suck because you had a bad experience.;) We have one w/ 280k that runs like a bat out of hell everyday for 8 hours straight.

Guthrie&Co
10-13-2005, 12:35 AM
i have had 3 of em. know it and the other 12v was just as bad, the 24v wasa litle bit better as far as reliability but it was still weak
runs like a bat out of hell.....you have to run a cummins like that to ge it to do anything

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 12:39 AM
Show me one 800hp Powerstroke. Where is the dyno graph? Yet another claim w/ no evidence. And you are right the electronic injection. Fords have a fueling problem over 400hp. Electronic injection is no match for a mechanical injection pump.


Show me one 800-1000hp Cummins 5.9 that hasn't ventilated its block or been opened up before 100k miles. Can't prove that one either--pissing matches are pointless.

But just for kicks I am looking up the list of Strokers in the 800hp+ club.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 12:40 AM
mine is a '94... i adjusted the fuel pump and it will pull w/ any of the new fords, chevy, or dodges... but hey whatever works for you

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 12:43 AM
Show me one 800-1000hp Cummins 5.9 that hasn't ventilated its block or been opened up before 100k miles. Can't prove that one either--pissing matches are pointless.

But just for kicks I am looking up the list of Strokers in the 800hp+ club.

Any truck over 800 hp is not going to be driven on the street. Like any other performance engine they are freshened up from year to year. Good luck finding one powerstroke much less a list... post dyno graphs.

Guthrie&Co
10-13-2005, 12:45 AM
What makes you say that a powerstoke cant have that much power?

semms nieve if you ask me

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 12:55 AM
The only way I'd want a Cummins is if I was fixing up an older truck such as a 60's or 70's era F-250 or F-350, where the mechanical simplicity of the 12v Cummins could be appreciated, as its really a lot of trouble and hassle to do the electronics to install a PSD, though it has been done with success in a '69 F-250 CC SB 4x4.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 01:06 AM
What makes you say that a powerstoke cant have that much power?

semms nieve if you ask me

I believe the powerstrokes just have a limit. No matter how long you search the net for proof... you won't find it. If anybody has tried it is david at diesel innovations in Texas. He has a beast of a powerstroke. I have seen it put down 500hp w/ no drugs. Even dodge's with electronic injection max out at 800hp w/ nitrous.

Eclipse
10-13-2005, 01:09 AM
There are several Power Strokes over on TDS in the 800hp+ range, as I said, modding any PSD or Duramax gets expensive. Those guys have close to 4k in mods alone, from intakes, to injectors, to exhaust as well as internal modifications.

The only reason the Cummins is capable of such power is #1--the ones that are making the power are the old mechanical injection 12v engines, #2--they have no electronics that interfere with the ease of changing performance parameters,

First of all on a Cummins, Duramax, or Powerstroke $4k is not going to get you close to 800HP. $4k is peanuts when putting 800HP to the ground.

True the simplicity of the mechanical 12v Cummins is nice but the electronic engine are putting out similar dyno numbers nowdays.

I agree the mechanical pumps are still capable of the most power, that is the reason all the big time pullers are still running them, but on a street truck the mechanical engines and electronic engines are not far apart as far as HP is concerned. IMHO 500 usable HP is much easier to get out of an electronic 24 valve than a mechanical 12 valve.

Eclipse
10-13-2005, 01:14 AM
i have had 3 of em. know it and the other 12v was just as bad, the 24v wasa litle bit better as far as reliability but it was still weak
runs like a bat out of hell.....you have to run a cummins like that to ge it to do anything

Wow you must have had really crappy with with your Dodges.

I have one with 290k on it and the truck is still great. It has had a rebuilt tranny and rear end and several of the front end parts replaced once. Other than that it has been a pretty care free truck other than the regular stuff (brakes, tires, oil changes, ect...)

Everybody makes good ones and bad ones, Chevy included.

Eclipse
10-13-2005, 01:16 AM
That was before the Cummins was put in....

Not true. Back in November of 2003 Richard's truck was powered by a Cummins. C'mon you Stroker guys, couldn't you tell by the way it sounded it was not a PS :)

BTW - There is another Ford out there in the 10's out of Miami but it has a Cummins too :) Here is a video of it: http://www.suncoastconverters.com/IMAGES/custimages/GAW_10.82.wmv

Seriously, is there a 10 second Powerstroke now? I know as of last June there was not one out there in a street truck but I'm guessing things have changed over the summer.

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 01:20 AM
Not true. Back in November of 2003 Richard's truck was powered by a Cummins. C'mon you Stroker guys, couldn't you tell by the way it sounded it was not a PS :)

BTW - There is another Ford out there in the 10's out of Miami but it has a Cummins too :) Here is a video of it: http://www.suncoastconverters.com/IMAGES/custimages/GAW_10.82.wmv

Seriously, is there a 10 second Powerstroke now? I know as of last June there was not one out there in a street truck but I'm guessing things have changed over the summer.


There are more than 2 million Power Strokes out there--I'm sure there's a right good many that are putting out good times and power. Probably some guys like around here at some of the local farms that the truck looks like a beater but is actually a sleeper...waiting to attack an unsuspecting Cummins at any moment...

Guthrie&Co
10-13-2005, 01:37 AM
I believe the powerstrokes just have a limit. No matter how long you search the net for proof... you won't find it. If anybody has tried it is david at diesel innovations in Texas. He has a beast of a powerstroke. I have seen it put down 500hp w/ no drugs. Even dodge's with electronic injection max out at 800hp w/ nitrous.
so which is it? they can or they cant do it. your contradicting in this statement. you yourself just told us of a powerstroke that has that much power. with nitous or propane injection he could make the power. and then all he needs is twin turbos. and he has it without.

Eclipse
10-13-2005, 02:15 AM
There are more than 2 million Power Strokes out there--I'm sure there's a right good many that are putting out good times and power. Probably some guys like around here at some of the local farms that the truck looks like a beater but is actually a sleeper...waiting to attack an unsuspecting Cummins at any moment...

This could be very true. In the same way that there is most likely many more Cummins and Durmaxes out there turning 10 seconds than the few that have come out and done it in a bigger public arena.

Nothing to say about your 11.42 Powerstroke vid you posted :) :drinkup:

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 09:29 AM
so which is it? they can or they cant do it. your contradicting in this statement. you yourself just told us of a powerstroke that has that much power. with nitous or propane injection he could make the power. and then all he needs is twin turbos. and he has it without.

I am not contradicting myself. 500hp is a strong truck, but that is where a Powerstroke's limit is. 500hp w/o drugs, 600 hp w/ drugs... that is it. Cummins are capable of 1500hp w/ no nitrous. That is big power... 600hp was big power back in 1995. Powerstroke's are not capable of big power. You obviously know nothing about turning up a truck.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 09:31 AM
There are more than 2 million Power Strokes out there--I'm sure there's a right good many that are putting out good times and power. Probably some guys like around here at some of the local farms that the truck looks like a beater but is actually a sleeper...waiting to attack an unsuspecting Cummins at any moment...

Yeah if a good time for you is a 13 second run. Couldn't find any 800hp powerstroke dyno graphs????

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 09:53 AM
I am not contradicting myself. 500hp is a strong truck, but that is where a Powerstroke's limit is. 500hp w/o drugs, 600 hp w/ drugs... that is it. Cummins are capable of 1500hp w/ no nitrous. That is big power... 600hp was big power back in 1995. Powerstroke's are not capable of big power. You obviously know nothing about turning up a truck.


Cummins w/1500hp is only good for one run and then there's a rod hanging out the side....show me one that hasn't done it--I've seen lots of these.

Also, just turning up the pump on a Cummins will screw up your IP. You have to do injectors, air intake, as well as exhaust to keep EGT's down to keep from frying the turbo...

I haven't had time to find them, but they are out there.

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 09:56 AM
Yeah if a good time for you is a 13 second run. Couldn't find any 800hp powerstroke dyno graphs????

I couldn't find your 1500hp Cummins with the bottom end intact.

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 09:58 AM
This could be very true. In the same way that there is most likely many more Cummins and Durmaxes out there turning 10 seconds than the few that have come out and done it in a bigger public arena.

Nothing to say about your 11.42 Powerstroke vid you posted :) :drinkup:

I know a guy who had a '03 7.3 that was running 11.2's on his, no drugs either--just 5" straight pipes, a homemade intake, a bigger turbo, a Hypermax chip, and a set of Bean injectors, as well as a Banks transcommand.

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 09:59 AM
I am not contradicting myself. 500hp is a strong truck, but that is where a Powerstroke's limit is. 500hp w/o drugs, 600 hp w/ drugs... that is it. Cummins are capable of 1500hp w/ no nitrous. That is big power... 600hp was big power back in 1995. Powerstroke's are not capable of big power. You obviously know nothing about turning up a truck.


Show me a Cummins with the same automatic transmission it left the factory with....

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 11:36 AM
Cummins w/1500hp is only good for one run and then there's a rod hanging out the side....show me one that hasn't done it--I've seen lots of these.

Also, just turning up the pump on a Cummins will screw up your IP. You have to do injectors, air intake, as well as exhaust to keep EGT's down to keep from frying the turbo...

I haven't had time to find them, but they are out there.


http://prodieselsledpulling.com/schied.wmv

This motor lasts a full season. Arguably the most powerful diesel in the US. WTF are you talking about smalltimer? Are you a cummins expert now? You have never owned one, never worked on one, so how the HELL would you know? EGTs don't fry turbos you dumba$$. And no you can adjust your IP and it will not hurt anything else. Please quit spewing ignorant untruths.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 11:37 AM
I know a guy who had a '03 7.3 that was running 11.2's on his, no drugs either--just 5" straight pipes, a homemade intake, a bigger turbo, a Hypermax chip, and a set of Bean injectors, as well as a Banks transcommand.

Where is the video? Oh thats right you don't have one. It would take alot more to make it in the 11s.... like transplant a cummins.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 11:40 AM
Show me a Cummins with the same automatic transmission it left the factory with....

http://video.ls1tech.com/Player.asp...69-658C08AD329F

Same transmission, billet input, output, intermediaries, and 5 disc torque converter. Dodge trannies are strong, but there factory torque converter is weak.

kc2006
10-13-2005, 11:54 AM
no powerstroke has EVER run 11s.

Ok now I'm just going to plain call you a dipsh!t. You and I both know this truck because I see where your getting all your facts from. Dieselinovations snow white or whatever its called runs 11.55's and is supposed to be in the 10's next year from what the owner is saying.

I also see that your naming all these names that are posted on alldieselmotorsports.com page, oh wait how come the top cummins running in the 10's all weigh 2800-3500lbs? And all these fords running 11's are still at 5500lbs+? Well boys and girls lets get the calculator out, every 100lbs equals a tenth of asecond, hmmm 5500-3500 is 2000 thats 2 seconds. How come the diesel in snow white runs 11.55's at 5500 and the dodges that are going 10.50's are 2800-3500? Oh so lets correct for weight. Guess what chooch, HP isn't everything. You sandbag those dodges and guess who will win, or you put snow white on a diet and she'll be running 9's. CHOOCH

kc2006
10-13-2005, 11:59 AM
And don't come back with "theres ones that weigh 6000lbs or more and running mid 10's" because I know there are, I know theres cummins in the 9's. I'm just trying to tell you, a ford can do it too given the proper amount of money. Not saying internationals are better, just saying given the amount of money anything can be fast.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 12:33 PM
Ok now I'm just going to plain call you a dipsh!t. You and I both know this truck because I see where your getting all your facts from. Dieselinovations snow white or whatever its called runs 11.55's and is supposed to be in the 10's next year from what the owner is saying.

I also see that your naming all these names that are posted on alldieselmotorsports.com page, oh wait how come the top cummins running in the 10's all weigh 2800-3500lbs? And all these fords running 11's are still at 5500lbs+? Well boys and girls lets get the calculator out, every 100lbs equals a tenth of asecond, hmmm 5500-3500 is 2000 thats 2 seconds. How come the diesel in snow white runs 11.55's at 5500 and the dodges that are going 10.50's are 2800-3500? Oh so lets correct for weight. Guess what chooch, HP isn't everything. You sandbag those dodges and guess who will win, or you put snow white on a diet and she'll be running 9's. CHOOCH

Please don't act you know anything about drag racing b/c you don't. What dodges are 2800-3500 lbs? It takes alot more than just shaving weight to make it into the 9s. Snow white is the exception for powerstrokes, but she is still only 600hp on drugs. What say you... God of all Fords?

kc2006
10-13-2005, 01:50 PM
LMAO I dont know anything about drag racing?

Apparently you don't because it does NOT take 600hp to put a 5500lb truck in the 11.50 zone. Its around 700-710hp at the rear wheels. Most vehicles (cars) loose 20% drivetrain, that would put it at 875hp, maybe more!

Your proving to me that you are the idiot here and have no clue besides what you read on websites. The 2800-3800lb trucks are all of them in the 10's on alldieselmotorsports.com except for one dodge and that Maddog ford with the cummins.

Opps I forgot I don't know anything about drag racing

kc2006
10-13-2005, 01:52 PM
Oh wait, I don't know anything about chassis work or cage work

kc2006
10-13-2005, 01:55 PM
Oh geez, nor do I know turbo's or how to make my own headers

kc2006
10-13-2005, 01:57 PM
Ok now i'm just showing off. Look at that, another 9 second STREET CAR that I was in on.

Well wheres this proof of your big bad racing experience?

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 03:13 PM
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42887&stc=1&d=1129227175
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42888&stc=1&d=1129227175

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 03:29 PM
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42889&d=1129227883
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42890&d=1129227904
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42891&d=1129227917
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42892&d=1129227943

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 03:34 PM
Most hp calculators are not accurate for diesels because of the torque. All I am saying is... if you shave 2000 lbs you are not automatically going to be in the 9s. There is more to it than that... traction, shifts, etc etc. I am sure you have experience w/ gas motors, but diesel motors are a different animal.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 03:40 PM
Your proving to me that you are the idiot here and have no clue besides what you read on websites. The 2800-3800lb trucks are all of them in the 10's on alldieselmotorsports.com except for one dodge and that Maddog ford with the cummins.

There are 4 trucks that run 10.40 - 11.0 at Garmon's diesel in ATL. They are all prostock 5800lbs. Darren Morrison (the green dodge in the video -795), Jeff Garmon (11.10), Matty Stucky(11.07 - 737hp), Stucky's dad (10.81). I really don't know of too many 2800-3800lbs trucks except for that Dr Performance truck and the Keating truck. But you are right... you know more about diesel drag racing than I do, because you have a drag truck by god.:rolleyes:

kc2006
10-13-2005, 04:25 PM
it does not matter what type of engine it is. But with a car/truck 100lbs is equal to 1 tenth of a second. This is proven fact not me making it up.

And when it comes to 2800-3800lb diesels, go look at all the ones on alldieselmotorsports.com's 10 second club. The only one that weighs stock weight is the ford with the cummins.

I don't get why you can't just meet in the middle with this. We all said, yes cummins are the thing to go with due to the mechanical parts rather then electrical, and no one said (at least not me) that cummins are just pure crap and cant run the number. Yet you at first say a powerstroke cant run a number, then you say they cant run 11's at all, I show you one and you play that off and say I don't know anything about racing? I don't get you. Hook me up with a cummins and i'll put it in my ford so this discussion can be over with

Guthrie&Co
10-13-2005, 04:40 PM
[QUOTE=Lawnworks]http://prodieselsledpulling.com/schied.wmv

EGTs don't fry turbos you dumba$$.QUOTE]

pure intelligence here. so there really is no reason for the guage then huh? so have you finished your version of the new and improved wheel yet?

and the comment about not knowing anything about turning trucsk up ...i wont go there i dont want to embarass you any further than you have done yourself.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 05:36 PM
it does not matter what type of engine it is. But with a car/truck 100lbs is equal to 1 tenth of a second. This is proven fact not me making it up.

And when it comes to 2800-3800lb diesels, go look at all the ones on alldieselmotorsports.com's 10 second club. The only one that weighs stock weight is the ford with the cummins.

I don't get why you can't just meet in the middle with this. We all said, yes cummins are the thing to go with due to the mechanical parts rather then electrical, and no one said (at least not me) that cummins are just pure crap and cant run the number. Yet you at first say a powerstroke cant run a number, then you say they cant run 11's at all, I show you one and you play that off and say I don't know anything about racing? I don't get you. Hook me up with a cummins and i'll put it in my ford so this discussion can be over with

I agree w/ the weight issue of 1000lbs equal one second, but when you start running 8 and 9 second passes, I think it is more complicated than just weight. Everything has to be perfect... launch, traction, shifts... do you not agree?

It looks like to me there are several full weight dodge trucks on alldieselmotorsports.com in the 10s. Dennis Perry 24v weighing near 7000lbs, Jeff Prince's dually at 6500, Joe Hellmans dodge quad cab w/ chopped bed 5000-6000, and Fletcher's ride which is probably around 4500-5500. The Garmon drag truck that weighed 3800 is now a pro stock truck weight at 5800. The maddog truck is not at full weight either though... I believe he is at 6000-6500.

I was wrong about Powerstrokes not being able to run 11s. There is one... thats it. Last I heard he was running 12s, but looks like he found some more power or more of a diet.

All I am saying is that cummins are more performance capable. Powerstrokes are great engines... in fact all three diesels are great engines. It just so happens that dodges are king of the truck pull competitions and drag racing.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 05:40 PM
[QUOTE=Lawnworks]http://prodieselsledpulling.com/schied.wmv

EGTs don't fry turbos you dumba$$.QUOTE]

pure intelligence here. so there really is no reason for the guage then huh? so have you finished your version of the new and improved wheel yet?

and the comment about not knowing anything about turning trucsk up ...i wont go there i dont want to embarass you any further than you have done yourself.

EGTs do not fry turbos... overboosting will fry turbos. If you have excessively high EGTs, you will fry a piston not a turbo. If you run over 40 lbs of boost on a hx40 as a single it will come apart. Embarrass me? Don't worry you haven't... if you have never had a hot rod truck I don't think you have the right to tell me what will hurt or help my hot rod.

Guthrie&Co
10-13-2005, 06:30 PM
[QUOTE=scabyscapes]

EGTs do not fry turbos... overboosting will fry turbos. If you have excessively high EGTs, you will fry a piston not a turbo. If you run over 40 lbs of boost on a hx40 as a single it will come apart. Embarrass me? Don't worry you haven't... if you have never had a hot rod truck I don't think you have the right to tell me what will hurt or help my hot rod.
i have had plenty of hot rod trucks and built more than u could shake a stick at.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 06:40 PM
hot rod diesel... I am talking diesel motors not gas motors.

Guthrie&Co
10-13-2005, 07:24 PM
great. the whole friggin thread has been about diesels genius

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 07:36 PM
[QUOTE=Lawnworks]
i have had plenty of hot rod trucks and built more than u could shake a stick at.

so you have built hot rod diesel trucks? what is a hot rod to you... a powerstroke w/ chip in it?

kc2006
10-13-2005, 07:38 PM
Well, i can finally sleep at night :D

Guthrie&Co
10-13-2005, 07:40 PM
[QUOTE=scabyscapes]

so you have built hot rod diesel trucks? what is a hot rod to you... a powerstroke w/ chip in it?
fine man u win. i have better things to do. think whatever you want. i could give a frogs fat ass about you

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 07:42 PM
Here's a Stroker that runs 11.42...

http://www.dangertomanifold.com/videos/F350Run.wmv


That was before the Cummins was put in....

You are wrong.. this is his first cummins motor w/ stock pistons, bottom end, etc. Cannot admit to being wrong? Be a man for God's sake.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 07:45 PM
You cummins guys are a joke. i have owned both dodge and fords. with the cummins and the powerstroke. i dont see how you guys can say they dodge is a better truck than the ford. my dodge was the weakest thing i have every owned. the ford for me was clearly the stronger truck hands down.

Clearly you have never hot rodded a dodge before. They sure as hell aren't weak if you know what you are doing.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 07:46 PM
[QUOTE=Lawnworks]
fine man u win. i have better things to do. think whatever you want. i could give a frogs fat ass about you

Thanks... I knew you would see it my way.

kc2006
10-13-2005, 07:59 PM
Lawnworks, what turbo are you running in that truck?

Eclipse
10-13-2005, 08:16 PM
oh wait how come the top cummins running in the 10's all weigh 2800-3500lbs?

Look at all I missed today :)

I think you guys have the 10 second Cummins and the weight thing figured out. As mentioned, there are a quite a few at 5k pounds plus.

Eclipse
10-13-2005, 08:17 PM
Lawnworks, what turbo are you running in that truck?

He has two turbos :) I'm not positive what they are but I'm going to guess and HX40/HT3B

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 08:24 PM
You are wrong.. this is his first cummins motor w/ stock pistons, bottom end, etc. Cannot admit to being wrong? Be a man for God's sake.


I want to know how many Cummins you've burned up and if you say none, then I'm going to be LMAO.

We had a Cummins in a IH Loadstar a while back and it was the worst engine it ever had, it ate camshafts up like they were the fuel--sold it and got a truck with a real diesel--Cat Power!

Eclipse
10-13-2005, 08:26 PM
Also, just turning up the pump on a Cummins will screw up your IP. You have to do injectors, air intake, as well as exhaust to keep EGT's down to keep from frying the turbo...

Smalltimer, you may be a knowledgeable Ford guy but please do not try to discuss a Cummins when it is obvious by a couple of your post you are not very knowledgeable about them.

I guess it really depends on what you want to call turning up the pump and what pump we are talking about but you can easily get more fuel, for free, out of either of the mechanical injection pump on the Dodge Cummins trucks and if know what you are doing you will not harm the IP in the least bit. Now if you are an idiot and do not know what the hell you are doing and start messing around, then certainly you can harm the IP.

You absolutely do not need injectors or anything else. Certainly an air upgrade (intake and exhaust mods) will help with EGT's but this has nothing to due with hurting the IP.

You are going to say I don't know **** right? Call Mark Chappel at TST Products. He is a retired Cummins engineer who was with the company (Cummins) for 33 years before starting TST Products.

Eclipse
10-13-2005, 08:35 PM
Show me a Cummins with the same automatic transmission it left the factory with....

What does this have to do with the discussion? We are talking engines and power and now you want to talk trannies too.

So me any 600-800HP truck with the exact same tranny (meaning it was never taken apart) that it left the factory with.

If we are talking the 47RE series of transmissions overall they are pretty stout trannies if driven for and cared for properly. They are nothing more than a 727 with a lock up torque converter and a OD unit slapped on the back. I think most feel the old 727 was a good tranny? I had one stock 47RE make it just over 200k hard miles. As mentioned the converter was a POS.

That's enough about trannies.

kc2006
10-13-2005, 08:36 PM
Look at all I missed today :)

I think you guys have the 10 second Cummins and the weight thing figured out. As mentioned, there are a quite a few at 5k pounds plus.

Yes you missed alot haha.

My whole point to this was, not saying that the dodges had to be put on extreme diets to run 10's but there are like 50/50 heavy and light. If you take snow white at 5500lbs and put her on the diet, boom you'd have a low 10 second powerstroke possibly faster...if it hooked up like lawnworks said.

That was my point :waving: So i have to email dieselinnovations and tell him to lighten that freakin truck up so we can have proof!

kc2006
10-13-2005, 08:40 PM
BTW, anyone looking for a ht3b? I have one fo sale, it got damaged in shipping and as soon as the shipping company pays for it I'm going to sell it again. 50 bucks plus shipping. It didn't have any shaft play, but the one blade on the exhaust impeller got messed up. I bought it to put on a 540 gas engine but couldn't find a smaller exhaust housing for it. So we ended up with a hx55 (picture i posted) on a 454.

Eclipse
10-13-2005, 08:48 PM
[pure intelligence here. so there really is no reason for the guage then huh?

I am going to have to slightly disagree with Lawnworks as well. EGT's can take out a turbo but on the Cummins truck you will more than likely cause some damage to the motor well before the EGT's will damage the turbo.

The guys who were cooking turbos before the motor were the extreme sledpullers and racers who already adressed some of the potential heat issues in the engine and thought that 2000+ degrees was ok on a turbo for 10 seconds or so :) they have now adressed the extreme heat issues with their turbos too :)

IMHO the pyrometer is not there for turbo protection (unless you are talking about cooldown), it is there to protect against engine meltdown. At a sustained 1300-1400 EGT you can easily cook a hole but the turbo will make it though it a little worse for wear but it certainly will not be dead.

Again this appiles to Cummins engines and Holest turbos. I do not know how a PS or a D-Max would react in this scenario.

UNISCAPER
10-13-2005, 09:44 PM
|That 190 cummins that Cornpicker put in Loadstar series trucks was a junk. Over 250 or a 300 Cummins or a big cam, good engine. I too and a devout Caterpillar person. They will be releasing an all aluminum 19 liter engine prodicung 650 horsepower for gravel trucks....Can't weight to get my hands on one of them.

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 11:09 PM
Smalltimer, you may be a knowledgeable Ford guy but please do not try to discuss a Cummins when it is obvious by a couple of your post you are not very knowledgeable about them.

I guess it really depends on what you want to call turning up the pump and what pump we are talking about but you can easily get more fuel, for free, out of either of the mechanical injection pump on the Dodge Cummins trucks and if know what you are doing you will not harm the IP in the least bit. Now if you are an idiot and do not know what the hell you are doing and start messing around, then certainly you can harm the IP.

You absolutely do not need injectors or anything else. Certainly an air upgrade (intake and exhaust mods) will help with EGT's but this has nothing to due with hurting the IP.

You are going to say I don't know **** right? Call Mark Chappel at TST Products. He is a retired Cummins engineer who was with the company (Cummins) for 33 years before starting TST Products.


I was not saying EGT's led to IP failure as you erroneously concluded--I was saying for the pump tuning to be completely effective--the rest of the system must be upgraded as well.

Turning the pump up will just dump more fuel in and cause black smoking (which isn't neccessarily a bad thing) and lower fuel economy--another words the concept of equilibrium must be maintained for the pump's output to be proportional to total engine power output. If you can't get rid of the exhaust gases fast enough it will cause your mileage to go down--so the whole system must be upgraded for the full effect of the tuning to be reached.

More fuel does not automatically equal more power.

You don't have to know anything about the engine to know that what goes in--must come out. Therefore it can be in the form of mechanical energy (what is desired) or thermal energy (not desirable). Just turning up the pump will result in more thermal energy being released--to correct this you must up grade the limiting factors, which include, but are not limited to: injectors (usually the first upgrade when the pump is turned up), a good air intake (to allow higher air flow to help get more power), a larger exhaust (downpipe included), which helps complete the system of making more power, by allowing all that air and fuel that goes in to get out so more can be forced through the system.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this--its basic physics.

kc2006
10-13-2005, 11:12 PM
I'm not going to argue about this stuff anymore. I just learned diesels don't use spark plugs last week.

Lawnworks
10-13-2005, 11:42 PM
I was not saying EGT's led to IP failure as you erroneously concluded--I was saying for the pump tuning to be completely effective--the rest of the system must be upgraded as well..

No you said EGTs would fry the turbo and Eclipse correctly addressed this issue.


Turning the pump up will just dump more fuel in and cause black smoking (which isn't neccessarily a bad thing) and lower fuel economy--another words the concept of equilibrium must be maintained for the pump's output to be proportional to total engine power output. If you can't get rid of the exhaust gases fast enough it will cause your mileage to go down--so the whole system must be upgraded for the full effect of the tuning to be reached.

More fuel does not automatically equal more power.

You don't have to know anything about the engine to know that what goes in--must come out. Therefore it can be in the form of mechanical energy (what is desired) or thermal energy (not desirable). Just turning up the pump will result in more thermal energy being released--to correct this you must up grade the limiting factors, which include, but are not limited to: injectors (usually the first upgrade when the pump is turned up), a good air intake (to allow higher air flow to help get more power), a larger exhaust (downpipe included), which helps complete the system of making more power, by allowing all that air and fuel that goes in to get out so more can be forced through the system.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this--its basic physics.

But in the real world, you can adjust the IP to pump a few more ccs of fuel and it will result in more power. If you adjust it too much, you will have to worry about your transmission or the clutch. This is just my hands on experience talking though.

lawnmaniac883
10-13-2005, 11:43 PM
Ladies, ladies, enough arguing already. Since when does fueling relate to diesel exhaust systems? LOL, we confirmed that smalltimer knows jack about cummins, is that not enough? Frankly, you all sound like idiots to me after reading the 30 posts made today heh. EGT's will kill a turbo, anyone every pop their hood after a WOT run on a tst fueled truck to see a glowing turbo? Guess not, enough with the bitchin already.

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 11:51 PM
No you said EGTs would fry the turbo and Eclipse correctly addressed this issue.

That's what I said--that high EGT's can wipe out a turbo. I hate being misquoted.

But in the real world, you can adjust the IP to pump a few more ccs of fuel and it will result in more power. If you adjust it too much, you will have to worry about your transmission or the clutch. This is just my hands on experience talking though.


The way you came across made it sound like you cranked it up a whole lot--you never said by a little bit--sure there is a little tolerance for upward adjustment, but hardly enough to make a significant difference.

I've had my time under the hood of a Dodge Cummins, ol' boy at church don't know squat about his '89 so I showed him what was what and what could be done to what. Even adjusted it by a small amount--I know what it takes. Heck I offered to buy it from him for $2500, with a non-functional odometer, and he said he couldn't afford to sell it since him and his girlfriend have a kid coming at the age of 17 years old.

Smalltimer1
10-13-2005, 11:52 PM
Ladies, ladies, enough arguing already. Since when does fueling relate to diesel exhaust systems? LOL, we confirmed that smalltimer knows jack about cummins, is that not enough? Frankly, you all sound like idiots to me after reading the 30 posts made today heh. EGT's will kill a turbo, anyone every pop their hood after a WOT run on a tst fueled truck to see a glowing turbo? Guess not, enough with the bitchin already.


Think what you want--I've got the scars and the experience to prove what I say.

Guthrie&Co
10-13-2005, 11:53 PM
hey lawnworks........

kc2006
10-13-2005, 11:53 PM
No I say we continue, this is fun :D

Here's cummins competition http://www.dzljim.com/images/F-350_pics/Stage3/Count'em.jpg

From what I read, it ran a 15.30 spinning all the way till OD. There is talk on thedieselstop of a stroke that is going to be in the 10's soon. Also theres 4 or 5 trucks on there posting high 600hp's and 1400+ ft lbs of torque. I guess theres one that is making 700hp on just #2. You got me researching this crap too much, need to be thinking about my car more.

Lawnworks
10-14-2005, 12:10 AM
The way you came across made it sound like you cranked it up a whole lot--you never said by a little bit--sure there is a little tolerance for upward adjustment, but hardly enough to make a significant difference.

I've had my time under the hood of a Dodge Cummins, ol' boy at church don't know squat about his '89 so I showed him what was what and what could be done to what. Even adjusted it by a small amount--I know what it takes. Heck I offered to buy it from him for $2500, with a non-functional odometer, and he said he couldn't afford to sell it since him and his girlfriend have a kid coming at the age of 17 years old.

50- 80hp is a "significant difference." An '89 cummins has a weaker fuel pump than a 94-98. The adjustment in my flatbed made a huge difference especially pulling a load.

Lawnworks
10-14-2005, 12:13 AM
No I say we continue, this is fun :D

Here's cummins competition http://www.dzljim.com/images/F-350_pics/Stage3/Count'em.jpg

From what I read, it ran a 15.30 spinning all the way till OD. There is talk on thedieselstop of a stroke that is going to be in the 10's soon. Also theres 4 or 5 trucks on there posting high 600hp's and 1400+ ft lbs of torque. I guess theres one that is making 700hp on just #2. You got me researching this crap too much, need to be thinking about my car more.

Good god... 3 turbos? Looks cool , but I have never seen 3 turbos work for dodges though. Find a dyno sheet and I will believe those numbers.

Eclipse
10-14-2005, 12:25 AM
I was not saying EGT's led to IP failure as you erroneously concluded


You're kidding me right? Are you reading the same stuff I am? For some reason my PC must put different words on the screen than your's :rolleyes:

Your right you never said, nor did I conclude from your statements, that EGT's lead to IP failure.

You said

just turning up the pump on a Cummins will screw up your IP. You have to do injectors, air intake, as well as exhaust to keep EGT's down to keep from frying the turbo...


I read that very clearly that you are saying EGT's affect the turbo not the IP.

The part of my reply in question:

Certainly an air upgrade (intake and exhaust mods) will help with EGT's but this has nothing to due with hurting the IP.


I clearly state hurting the IP has nothing to do with EGT's :rolleyes:

Smalltimer1
10-14-2005, 12:32 AM
You're kidding me right? Are you reading the same stuff I am? For some reason my PC must put different words on the screen than your's :rolleyes:

Your right you never said, nor did I conclude from your statements, that EGT's lead to IP failure.

You said


I read that very clearly that you are saying EGT's affect the turbo not the IP.

The part of my reply in question:


I clearly state hurting the IP has nothing to do with EGT's :rolleyes:


Well at least we are on the same page now.

Eclipse
10-14-2005, 12:34 AM
That's what I said--that high EGT's can wipe out a turbo. I hate being misquoted.

Do you have some handicap that prohibits you from understanding what you read?

All my post are there and you can see they have not been edited nor can I edit them anymore. Please, please show me where I misquoted you!!!!!!!!! or even tried to twist your statement into something you didn't say.

You have to be kidding me :rolleyes:

UNISCAPER
10-14-2005, 12:37 AM
. "I just learned diesels don't use spark plugs last week"

Not always!

Corn picker made the TD-2. A small MTL sized steel track dozer with a 45HP diesel. It had spark plugs because you started it on gasoline, then after it popped off, you flipped a valve and it then burned diesel fuel.

This arguing over soot belching trucks that are attempting to be drag vehicles is pretty stoopid.

It ain't a drag vehicle unless it runs gasoline, Methanol, Nitro Methane, or Alky. Weapon of choice, 600 cubic inch Chrysler Hemi with a 12-71 detroit blower running a 94% nitro boost. Put on the ear plugs and feels like someone is beating your chest with a baseball bat when it passes by. Pomona in 3 weeks. Winter nationals. Be there or be square.

Eclipse
10-14-2005, 12:39 AM
Well at least we are on the same page now.

I really think you have a handicap! On this idea we were always on the same page, you just could not understand the words as they were written.

Seriously, are you reading something different?

Eclipse
10-14-2005, 12:41 AM
It ain't a drag vehicle unless it runs gasoline, Methanol, Nitro Methane, or Alky.

What if I run a water/methanol mix injected into the intake? Does this count :)

Smalltimer1
10-14-2005, 12:45 AM
I really think you have a handicap! On this idea we were always on the same page, you just could not understand the words as they were written.

Seriously, are you reading something different?

Handicap? What handicap? I think we were just making parallel statements for a bit.

UNISCAPER
10-14-2005, 12:49 AM
What if I run a water/methanol mix injected into the intake? Does this count

Most definitely! But cud belchers running the drag strip, please save them for truck pulls and mosquito fogging.

Dirty Water
10-14-2005, 12:59 AM
. "I just learned diesels don't use spark plugs last week"

Not always!

Corn picker made the TD-2. A small MTL sized steel track dozer with a 45HP diesel. It had spark plugs because you started it on gasoline, then after it popped off, you flipped a valve and it then burned diesel fuel.



That must have been a incredibly low compression diesal? Also, if so, it would have been the first gasoline direct fuel injection engine ever made...which is largerly credited to mitsubishi.

Did it have a carb and DFI for the diesal?

UNISCAPER
10-14-2005, 01:25 AM
It used direct injection naturally aspirated. The theory, so the story goes is that the gas would heat the engine enough to fire the fuel. If I'm not mistaken this dozer was made circa 1947-55. If I'm not mistaken, Mitsubishi heavy industries was started in 1948, but their plants had been running for years. It was a stolen design that launched the Zero airplane, manufactured by Mitsubishi in the late 30's.

The dozer used dry clutches to steer and they were activated by your hands. That's why an old operating engineer had this grip that could choke a mule. To say the least, when this beast was sold in the mid seventies, it looked circa 1900.

Dirty Water
10-14-2005, 01:33 AM
I still don't get how it could run as a diesal (with a compression ratio at least 18:1 usually), yet handle gasoline, it seems like it would predetonate like crazy.

Do you have any links to this weird engine??

Lawnworks
10-14-2005, 09:13 AM
This arguing over soot belching trucks that are attempting to be drag vehicles is pretty stoopid.

It ain't a drag vehicle unless it runs gasoline, Methanol, Nitro Methane, or Alky. Weapon of choice, 600 cubic inch Chrysler Hemi with a 12-71 detroit blower running a 94% nitro boost. Put on the ear plugs and feels like someone is beating your chest with a baseball bat when it passes by. Pomona in 3 weeks. Winter nationals. Be there or be square.

Gas drag racing is boring to me. Diesels are an unconquered frontier. Who can hate mutiple turbos? and neck curling 4wd launches? and 150 psi boost gauges? just pereference I guess. I figured you would have 10 second duramax w/ all the chevys in your stable.

Lawnworks
10-14-2005, 09:14 AM
Handicap? What handicap? I think we were just making parallel statements for a bit.

I think I know what it is... it is called an EGO. He cannot admit he wrong even when you stick it right in his face. For instance,


Originally Posted by Smalltimer1
Here's a Stroker that runs 11.42...

http://www.dangertomanifold.com/videos/F350Run.wmv





Originally Posted by Smalltimer1
That was before the Cummins was put in....



See here he is dead wrong, but tries to make it look like he knows wtf he talking about. Be a man, admit you are wrong... for once.

UNISCAPER
10-14-2005, 10:42 AM
Jon:

The system on the old IH used a compression release that was valved. It actually caught the spend gas/air, choked into a return tube then back into the gas tank. As you switched the engine over to fuel while it ran and leaned off gasoline (at the tme selling for .35 a gallon by the way), that valve would pinch shut. And that was a downfall of the machine. In and out of all the dirt and stuff that a dozer went through, it would end up sticking and during routine maintenance you would have to yank it off and clean it every now and again. I'll say one thing, this machine would start in -20° without being plugged in like no ones business. The overall design was pretty gutless, 45HP on a 14,000 lb dozer would not accomplish alot compared to what can be done today.

Lawnworks:

I guess I might find watching a diesel drag interesting, and was more caught up with being sick of the proverbial pissing match in the thread than I thought.

Fuel dragsters and funny cars are awesome to watch, but honestly, the pro Stock classes are my favorite.

They are taking a car that used to run in the 10's and have it dialed in so tight that they are now hitting low 6's at 210MPH. It is by far the most competitive class and the most expensive classs to run in the NHRA.

10 second Duramax? Nah. I'm a big believer of leaving what the manufacturer made all alone with your diesel. The new high torque higher HP engines in a pick up truck are way overkill. I've seen a 1966 Kenworth tractor run throught the 1/4 mile at 9.88/146. It had a 1456 cubic inch V-12 Detroit, twin superchargers, and pushed 3300 HP. The engine came from a harbor tug and was worked over to the tune of $210,000.00..and for what? If I'm going to dump that much money into a race car, it had best be able to win $10,000 plus a run or it simply is not worth me spending my money on.

But to each their own!

Smalltimer1
10-14-2005, 10:48 AM
I think I know what it is... it is called an EGO. He cannot admit he wrong even when you stick it right in his face. For instance,








See here he is dead wrong, but tries to make it look like he knows wtf he talking about. Be a man, admit you are wrong... for once.


Perhaps you missed your directive posted last night??

Pg. 15, Reply #145??

Eclipse
10-14-2005, 11:05 AM
Perhaps you missed your directive posted last night??

Pg. 15, Reply #145??

That's funny because I think that should have been posted at you. Your ingnorance on the this topic, and many others, and your inability to admit when you have made a false statement has amazed me. Sometime it is better to say nothing at all than try to look like you know what you are talking about.

Eclipse
10-14-2005, 11:08 AM
Handicap? What handicap? I think we were just making parallel statements for a bit.

Only parallel in the sense that EGT's will not harm an IP. That's it.

The handicap is from you not being able to interrupt what you read. I never said they would in the first place. I'm still waiting for you so show me where I misquoted you.

Lawnworks
10-14-2005, 11:18 AM
Perhaps you missed your directive posted last night??

Pg. 15, Reply #145??

Wow, still cannot admit you are wrong. You are pathetic.

Green Masters
10-14-2005, 11:20 AM
Go with a Banks monster Exhaust. It will have an aggressive loud sound with added mpg's and power. Great investiment.

UNISCAPER
10-14-2005, 11:26 AM
In school, they train engineers to never back down from statements or designs, even when they are incorrct. I'm not saying anyone is in this thread, and frankly don't care. just an observation from working with many engineers. They can present a working drawing, and be dead wrong on the drains or something, because we all know water flows down hill, and will argue why their design is corrct and should be used. I've seen it time after time with SRW wall prints as one example.

Now, since you consider the training that engineers get in college as a group, you can perhaps understand what is occuring here.

Ironmower
10-15-2005, 01:18 AM
That's funny because I think that should have been posted at you. Your ingnorance on the this topic, and many others, and your inability to admit when you have made a false statement has amazed me. Sometime it is better to say nothing at all than try to look like you know what you are talking about.


You're not helping the situation putting other folks down. Grow up son.

Ironmower
10-15-2005, 01:19 AM
Only parallel in the sense that EGT's will not harm an IP. That's it.

The handicap is from you not being able to interrupt what you read. I never said they would in the first place. I'm still waiting for you so show me where I misquoted you.


Hot heads like you are what cause fights--and usually gets their ass handed to them...

Ironmower
10-15-2005, 01:20 AM
Wow, still cannot admit you are wrong. You are pathetic.


You don't seem to take scaby's advice too well do you?

Ironmower
10-15-2005, 01:23 AM
In school, they train engineers to never back down from statements or designs, even when they are incorrct. I'm not saying anyone is in this thread, and frankly don't care. just an observation from working with many engineers. They can present a working drawing, and be dead wrong on the drains or something, because we all know water flows down hill, and will argue why their design is corrct and should be used. I've seen it time after time with SRW wall prints as one example.

Now, since you consider the training that engineers get in college as a group, you can perhaps understand what is occuring here.


I've worked with many engineers over the years on projects with other contractors and I have seen where pushy customers can cause an engineer to make a bad decision, usually from pressure for a deadline or from just being an ass to the guy, especially when they are 'coerced' into going with the customer's idea even if it is unsafe or impractical.

I let the engineer do his job......that's what I pay them for.

Lawnworks
10-15-2005, 04:30 AM
You don't seem to take scaby's advice too well do you?

You mean advice as in "shut the f#$% up?" I guess his advise really did not help his arguement. I am sorry if you are a brand loyal ford guy and you got offended b/c cummins actually makes a decent motor, but the I am not going to sit back and let smalltimer spew biased opinions, and outright lies.

I've worked with many engineers over the years on projects with other contractors and I have seen where pushy customers can cause an engineer to make a bad decision, usually from pressure for a deadline or from just being an ass to the guy, especially when they are 'coerced' into going with the customer's idea even if it is unsafe or impractical.

I let the engineer do his job......that's what I pay them for.

So you would pay them for a job done incorrectly, b/c they do not have the capacity to admit a mistake?


You're not helping the situation putting other folks down. Grow up son.

I am sorry, but how is he putting anybody down? Since when did defending against a false accusation become putting some one down? OR does what he have to say not fall in line w/ your agenda? I really have no idea why you posted, except maybe that you are 67 years old(read your profile) and the viagra has wore off and you are just looking for a little excitement:confused: ... really just a guess though.

Eclipse
10-15-2005, 10:32 AM
You're not helping the situation putting other folks down. Grow up son.

I guess you're not helping either then "son".


Hot heads like you are what cause fights--and usually gets their ass handed to them...

Hmmmm...... OK

You don't seem to take scaby's advice too well do you?

I'm glad scabby does not fall into the "hothead" catagory with his wonderful post on page 15 but apparently you agree with his comments so it must be ok then. BTW - Scabby I did think that was a funny pic :)

Look I'm not trying to make any enemies here but it does irritate me when, on a public forum, someone post blatently false information because then some of the folks reading the informaiton will go on believing it was true. It don't care if it is about a Cummins truck or not, this just happens to be something I am knowledgeable about. This is how bullshit rumors get started and spread.

Also before you start pointing the finger, if you look back through this entire thread I was polite throughout this entire thread even though he has been typing misinformation all along. When I started to get a little aggitated with him is when he started to make up things that I was saying, like misquoting him, ect... with absolutely no proof to back it up.

Smalltimer has a bit of history doing this (starting with his BS) and then after being proven wrong, continue with it to try and somehow dig himself out of a hole. I have already received a couple PM's from different members telling me to walk away from Smalltimers comments because it is a waste of time.

UNISCAPER
10-15-2005, 11:15 AM
I've worked with many engineers over the years on projects with other contractors and I have seen where pushy customers can cause an engineer to make a bad decision, usually from pressure for a deadline or from just being an ass to the guy, especially when they are 'coerced' into going with the customer's idea even if it is unsafe or impractical.

I let the engineer do his job......that's what I pay them for.

Ironmower:


I agree with you to a certain extent, and as usual I got rushed off from completing all that I should have put in that post.

The problem with engineers as a group, is they tend to be hard sided on their design, view or whatever the case may be. And yes, they have to be to cover their asses..
Not to boast here, but in the type of work we do, (segmental retaining walls, and striuctures that hang off the sides of mountains and cliffs along with landscape and irrigation) I question every engineer for my own sanity and protection. On more than a dozen occasions this year alone, I've caught little misdesigned items such as drains which are critical in our line of work that had no daylight at the end of the pipe. Water sitting in a hole will do nothing but weaken the soils we have in out part of the world. I have also recreated scenarios where the manufacturer of the wall calls for more Strata Grid, or grid placed in different spots..

Engineers as a group are taught to strongly hold their ground to protect their liabilities, and, from my end, I am going o do what I must to protect mine. If I build it, I get dragged right into the same lawsuit just like anyone else.

I realize this has nothing to do with the now 18 page pissing match that has gone on in this thread here, but frankly the fastest way to end an arguement online is to understand who is who and where they are comming from, and stop participating. Which, is what I am doing after this post. Arguing over soot belching diesel fire breathers that no one actually owns is like how the old hot rodders used to sit in the speed shop and bench race, and even then, it got very old very quick, but at least you could see their faces and become friends at the track.

Ironmower
10-16-2005, 12:01 AM
You mean advice as in "shut the f#$% up?" I guess his advise really did not help his arguement. I am sorry if you are a brand loyal ford guy and you got offended b/c cummins actually makes a decent motor, but the I am not going to sit back and let smalltimer spew biased opinions, and outright lies.

Well the Cummins I had cracked its head and I got a Cat to replace it. I wasn't about to go through the run around with a Dodge dealer.

So you would pay them for a job done incorrectly, b/c they do not have the capacity to admit a mistake?

You wouldn't know the difference anyway to tell if it was right or wrong. You'd just smile and sign the damn check.



I am sorry, but how is he putting anybody down? Since when did defending against a false accusation become putting some one down? OR does what he have to say not fall in line w/ your agenda? I really have no idea why you posted, except maybe that you are 67 years old(read your profile) and the viagra has wore off and you are just looking for a little excitement:confused: ... really just a guess though.

I don't appreciate your comments, because for all we know on here you could be taking it up the ass right now, I mean that is the 'in' thing for young guns like you right? That's just my guess though.:dizzy:

Ironmower
10-16-2005, 12:04 AM
I guess you're not helping either then "son".




Hmmmm...... OK



I'm glad scabby does not fall into the "hothead" catagory with his wonderful post on page 15 but apparently you agree with his comments so it must be ok then. BTW - Scabby I did think that was a funny pic :)

Look I'm not trying to make any enemies here but it does irritate me when, on a public forum, someone post blatently false information because then some of the folks reading the informaiton will go on believing it was true. It don't care if it is about a Cummins truck or not, this just happens to be something I am knowledgeable about. This is how bullshit rumors get started and spread.

Also before you start pointing the finger, if you look back through this entire thread I was polite throughout this entire thread even though he has been typing misinformation all along. When I started to get a little aggitated with him is when he started to make up things that I was saying, like misquoting him, ect... with absolutely no proof to back it up.

Smalltimer has a bit of history doing this (starting with his BS) and then after being proven wrong, continue with it to try and somehow dig himself out of a hole. I have already received a couple PM's from different members telling me to walk away from Smalltimers comments because it is a waste of time.

What ST1 said may or may not have been true, as there are examples on both sides' favor. That is irrelevant--probably everyone has posted BS on here at one point or another. I mean, I mostly just lurk around, but I find your posts hard believe myself most of the time, so just know if you dish it out, be ready to have it coming back.

Besides most of the guys on here are on just for entertainment anyway--they probably all have their ways of relaxing and one of mine is laughing at some of these outrageous posts on here.

Ironmower
10-16-2005, 12:06 AM
BTW, my advice for the exhaust is to leave it stock, for warranty as well as old folks' ears like mine, just can't take all that loud noise that I used to in my younger years. Don't get me wrong I love going to the races and all, but I don't want to hear it away from the track.

Lawnworks
10-16-2005, 01:36 AM
Well the Cummins I had cracked its head and I got a Cat to replace it. I wasn't about to go through the run around with a Dodge dealer.

Cracked head on a stock dodge? hmmm... You do have to fill the radiator w/ coolant you know?



You wouldn't know the difference anyway to tell if it was right or wrong. You'd just smile and sign the damn check.

and another quote from you... oh wise one


I've worked with many engineers over the years on projects with other contractors and I have seen where pushy customers can cause an engineer to make a bad decision, usually from pressure for a deadline or from just being an ass to the guy, especially when they are 'coerced' into going with the customer's idea even if it is unsafe or impractical.

I let the engineer do his job......that's what I pay them for.

That sounds like exactly what you do!


I don't appreciate your comments, because for all we know on here you could be taking it up the ass right now, I mean that is the 'in' thing for young guns like you right? That's just my guess though.:dizzy:

Look I know that smalltimer is your buddy and you feel the need to lash out at members because we proved he does not know wtf he is talking about, but get real man. If you cannot admit failure, I don't know how you ever learn anything. Taking it up the ass? Sound like you had a bad experience some where along the line. Man I just hope I ain't saying crap like that when I am 67. I thought old people were supposed to be wise. I still have time... hell your about dead.

Eclipse
10-16-2005, 03:15 AM
just know if you dish it out, be ready to have it coming back.

Don't worry I can take it.

I said I know about Cummins trucks. I will not try to profess to be an expert about PS's because I know very little about them or D-Max's. If ST1, or anyone else for that matter, can prove that I posted a false statement, in this thread, or any other, or am spreading blatent misinformation I will certainly be the first to step up and admit it. I'm not too proud to admit that I made a mistake.

So far, no proof.

Guthrie&Co
10-16-2005, 02:16 PM
Holy smokes! i havent been online in 2 days and it is still going!

Eclipse, i thought the pic was hillarious and that was the biggest reason i posted it. i thought it would fuel the fire some more, and i was seeing how hard i could push some buttons.

Restrorob
10-16-2005, 05:32 PM
I've been sitting here close to two hours reading this pissing match.
This is what it ALL boils down to; EVERYBODY has their OWN preference to EVERYTHING !!!! Thats what makes the world go round !!!!
This thread reminded me of my ELEMENTARY SCHOOL PLAYGROUND but with GROWN MEN sitting in the sandbox. :dizzy:

Ironmower
10-16-2005, 11:17 PM
Cracked head on a stock dodge? hmmm... You do have to fill the radiator w/ coolant you know?

I am very particular about PM on my trucks. This Dodge only had 5700 miles on it and was full of all the essential fluids. Further examination determined it to be a flaw in the quality of metal, almost like it didn't even cast correctly--which is why I won't own any Cummins junk anymore. From now on, its going to be either an International product or something with a Caterpillar inside.

That sounds like exactly what you do!

At least I know what to look for to know if its done correctly. If there's a problem I address it before the day is out. If there is any misunderstandings I call the engineer up and we discuss the problem and come up with a proper solution. I'm no idiot, I've been around long enough to know what's correct and what's not.

Look I know that smalltimer is your buddy and you feel the need to lash out at members because we proved he does not know wtf he is talking about, but get real man. If you cannot admit failure, I don't know how you ever learn anything.

You never proved anything, I mean I proved that Cummins is junk IMO, from personal firsthand, money spent, time lost, experience. Never saw any failure in this thread either. Maybe his timeline was a little mixed up but I know he's a busy guy in school and all, and he reads all this to wind down, and take it easy from getting an education. I admire such a young man with the gumption to get a higher education. Shows he's got initiative and drive. Shoot someday for all I know he might be designing a Cummins for you all to experiment around with. He knows his stuff, especially if its green and yellow or any shade of blue. He's spent some time working on Cummins too, he showed me his friend's Dodge truck that he was adjusting.

Taking it up the ass? Sound like you had a bad experience some where along the line. Man I just hope I ain't saying crap like that when I am 67. I thought old people were supposed to be wise. I still have time... hell your about dead.

Like I said before if you're going to start something, make sure you can finish it. I'm in the best shape of my life right now, I quit drinking (not alcoholic, just weekends) and smoking 15 years ago, started working out, and started eating better, mostly from the efforts of my lovely wife.

You can think what you like, but I just don't find much credibility in your statements, your proof stands on shaky ground. Houses built on sand do not stand up in a storm like houses built on rock. There's your wise saying for the day...

Lawnworks
10-17-2005, 12:26 AM
I am very particular about PM on my trucks. This Dodge only had 5700 miles on it and was full of all the essential fluids. Further examination determined it to be a flaw in the quality of metal, almost like it didn't even cast correctly--which is why I won't own any Cummins junk anymore. From now on, its going to be either an International product or something with a Caterpillar inside.

Sounds like a warranty issue. I see that you deem cummins junk b/c of one problem. What happens not if but when your ford has a problem? Oh nevermind... I know you will say they are perfect.


At least I know what to look for to know if its done correctly. If there's a problem I address it before the day is out. If there is any misunderstandings I call the engineer up and we discuss the problem and come up with a proper solution. I'm no idiot, I've been around long enough to know what's correct and what's not.

Yeah thats great... don't really care. Glad your playing defense though.



You never proved anything, I mean I proved that Cummins is junk IMO, from personal firsthand, money spent, time lost, experience. Never saw any failure in this thread either. Maybe his timeline was a little mixed up but I know he's a busy guy in school and all, and he reads all this to wind down, and take it easy from getting an education. I admire such a young man with the gumption to get a higher education. Shows he's got initiative and drive. Shoot someday for all I know he might be designing a Cummins for you all to experiment around with. He knows his stuff, especially if its green and yellow or any shade of blue. He's spent some time working on Cummins too, he showed me his friend's Dodge truck that he was adjusting.


You proved cummins was junk b/c of one example? Does that mean I can go grab a bill from a powerstroke w/ disfunctional injector and claim they are junk? I have never claimed Ford was junk. I like the cummins motor better, but I am not calling a powerstroke junk. However, if international keeps changing motors 7.3 to 6.0 to 6.4 are previous models considered junk? Their design was not worth keeping? Something to think about. Smalltimer worked on one type of cummins motor... a 1989 model... a totally different model than the one we are discussing.


Like I said before if you're going to start something, make sure you can finish it. I'm in the best shape of my life right now, I quit drinking (not alcoholic, just weekends) and smoking 15 years ago, started working out, and started eating better, mostly from the efforts of my lovely wife.

Yeah that is wonderful, but odds are you won't live past 80. Looks like 13 years more... that has got to suck.


You can think what you like, but I just don't find much credibility in your statements, your proof stands on shaky ground. Houses built on sand do not stand up in a storm like houses built on rock. There's your wise saying for the day...

You don't find credibility in my statements? What statement is that? You are hiding behind vagueness. My proof stands on shady ground? How is that? I have provided dyno graphs, videos.... proof. None of which can be found for an "800hp" powerstroke which smalltimer says MUST exist. Some people just do not understand how hard 800hp is to obtain, which is easy to understand for someone who has no window to the diesel performance world except through a computer screen. If anything your credibility is shaky b/c your trying to stand up for your boyfriend. Does your wife know about this?

kc2006
10-17-2005, 12:43 AM
Lawnworks. I looked at your old posts. Let me first say, I realize why you start fights online after seeing you stand next to that ranger. Stud. (i only say this after all your personal attacks on others)

Next, you must be a very smart man...well not very smart but quick to learn I should say. It was funny how you didn't know sh!t about vehicles when you were looking to purchase a dodge truck. As you said in the one post "how do I know if the engine is burning oil? How do they do a ring job? how much is a ring job?" but then you buy that truck and like 6 months or a year later you instantly know how to "tweak" a injector pump and how to completely rebuild the engine "yourself" as you said in one of the posts boasting your 1400 ft lbs of torque dyno pull.

Should I call shinanagins (no not the place that farva likes to eat at that has all the stuff on the wall) or are you really that quick to learn how to tweak pumps in the manner that most people take years to learn how to do? Because as I know it, theres only 2 guys in my whole area that can play with pumps and gain big power out of them... You should move here, you could make more money playing with diesels then you probably do mowing, if your as good as you say.

kc2006
10-17-2005, 12:47 AM
Oh and go to thedieselstop, theres a few 800hp trucks on there.

I just read some more of your posts and all I can say is wow, bringing all these rude statements in to play. calling people homosexuals basicly and all that.

You also said in old posts that you can fly anywhere for 50 bucks or something? If you want, fly here, if you can take me I'll give you the 50 bucks back. Just give me a time and come to the youngstown air port (if its still open, we're slacking here) if not cleveland or pittsburgh isnt that far. I'll make the hour drive. No joke either big man, your just out of line with your statements. I've called 2 others out online before, neither had shown up to the air port when they said they would. Will you?

Lawnworks
10-17-2005, 09:32 AM
Lawnworks. I looked at your old posts. Let me first say, I realize why you start fights online after seeing you stand next to that ranger. Stud. (i only say this after all your personal attacks on others)

Next, you must be a very smart man...well not very smart but quick to learn I should say. It was funny how you didn't know sh!t about vehicles when you were looking to purchase a dodge truck. As you said in the one post "how do I know if the engine is burning oil? How do they do a ring job? how much is a ring job?" but then you buy that truck and like 6 months or a year later you instantly know how to "tweak" a injector pump and how to completely rebuild the engine "yourself" as you said in one of the posts boasting your 1400 ft lbs of torque dyno pull.

Should I call shinanagins (no not the place that farva likes to eat at that has all the stuff on the wall) or are you really that quick to learn how to tweak pumps in the manner that most people take years to learn how to do? Because as I know it, theres only 2 guys in my whole area that can play with pumps and gain big power out of them... You should move here, you could make more money playing with diesels then you probably do mowing, if your as good as you say.

Got some time on your hands? I did not know anything about diesels when I was 18. But I have learned alot in 5 years not 6 months. Yes I have built 3 cummins motors at Garmon's Diesel Performance. Jeff Garmon taught me alot about Cummins. I have tweaked my Dodge Cummins work truck. I don't know everything about Cummins by any means, but I do know how to adjust it for a quick 50-80hp. And I know what parts to use to make a powerful truck. It is not rocket science. That Ranger comment was a cheap shot. That was when I was 16. Why don't you call Garmon's performance and see if I am lying?

Lawnworks
10-17-2005, 09:37 AM
Oh and go to thedieselstop, theres a few 800hp trucks on there.

Prove it... where is your link?


I just read some more of your posts and all I can say is wow, bringing all these rude statements in to play. calling people homosexuals basicly and all that.

I am not quite sure what you mean? Maybe you should read some of Ironmower's posts like this one...



but that is ok right? who said don't dish it if you can't take it?

[quote]
You also said in old posts that you can fly anywhere for 50 bucks or something? If you want, fly here, if you can take me I'll give you the 50 bucks back. Just give me a time and come to the youngstown air port (if its still open, we're slacking here) if not cleveland or pittsburgh isnt that far. I'll make the hour drive. No joke either big man, your just out of line with your statements. I've called 2 others out online before, neither had shown up to the air port when they said they would. Will you?

What would that prove? Do you think I would actually waste my time to even look at you? No I won't show up at the airport. What exactly is your credibility on this issue? Have you ever owned a Cummins? Do you own a diesel truck? have you ever opened the hood?

So Mr. 19 year-old are you too much of a pu$$y to put your age in your profile?

kc2006
10-17-2005, 10:48 AM
lmao, why would I be too mush of a pussy? Whats that gotta do with anything besides the fact that I managed 2 crews and over 120 accounts at the age of 17/18 and could of done more if the owner would of expanded? And I'm not 19 slick.

I'm not going to go dig through thedieselstop. You want the proof, go on there and put in 800hp diesel or look for that guy with the 3 turbo's, dzljim is his name, theres many posts with his name and others that make huge power.

Your just wrong in all the things you said, my age, having to ask if i own a diesel truck, wow at least when I look at old posts I get stuff right. And if you knew all this stuff about diesels then why did you not know how to check if that dakota was burning oil? Heck do you know what black smoke means from a diesel? HAHAHAHHAA oh well, i made my offer, your too scared to show up. So i'm with Scaby, later freak.

Dirty Water
10-17-2005, 11:22 AM
And if you knew all this stuff about diesels then why did you not know how to check if that dakota was burning oil? Heck do you know what black smoke means from a diesel? HAHAHAHHAA oh well, i made my offer, your too scared to show up. So i'm with Scaby, later freak.

Black smoke indicates a overly rich mixture of diesal. Blue smoke is from burning oil.

Lawnworks
10-17-2005, 12:04 PM
lmao, why would I be too mush of a pussy? Whats that gotta do with anything besides the fact that I managed 2 crews and over 120 accounts at the age of 17/18 and could of done more if the owner would of expanded? And I'm not 19 slick.

I'm not going to go dig through thedieselstop. You want the proof, go on there and put in 800hp diesel or look for that guy with the 3 turbo's, dzljim is his name, theres many posts with his name and others that make huge power.

Your just wrong in all the things you said, my age, having to ask if i own a diesel truck, wow at least when I look at old posts I get stuff right. And if you knew all this stuff about diesels then why did you not know how to check if that dakota was burning oil? Heck do you know what black smoke means from a diesel? HAHAHAHHAA oh well, i made my offer, your too scared to show up. So i'm with Scaby, later freak.

Your not 19?? What are you barely 20 then? Here is your post "slick."


04-20-2004, 11:52 PM
kc2006
LawnSite Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 771

Newbie needs some help

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all, I'm 18 and am getting into starting my own business. I've worked for other people for the past 3 years and theres just not enough money doing it that way and I want to set a good future for myself with this business.

I have found a exmark metro walk behind pretty cheap and have a truck and trailer already and I am going to purchase a trimmer and blower in the next few days. I have 3 residential accounts already lined up and until I get the exmark I'm just cutting it with a 23" push mower. Question is what is (in your experience) the best way to get accounts? I'm going to be passing around flyers at houses but I think that it would be best if i talk to the people also. This looks like a great site so far and i hope to gain some knowledge from it, thanks!

Wow you have had one diesel. Hell you must know it all. All you have against me is posts from when I was 17 years old... 5 years ago!! You cannot find anything better on me?

You made your offer??? What the hell are you talking about? Please graduate from high school and grow up.

If there is proof of a 800hp powerstroke please prove it, otherwise you are full of crap. Oh and the guy w/ the tripple turbo powerstroke... did you notice he had a paper air filter? Interesting considering those don't flow very well. Do you know anything about a cummins? How can you even argue w/ me if you don't have any experience?

Heck do you know what black smoke means from a diesel?

Yeah that is what you would be left in if we were racing.

Lawnworks
10-17-2005, 12:21 PM
Here is a post I found on dieselstop.

http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2479531&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=3&vc=1

Another one

http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=73upgrades1&Number=2460710&Forum=,,,,,,,,,,,All_Forums,,,,,,,,,,,&Words=&Searchpage=10&Limit=25&Main=2459693&Search=true&where=&Name=21351&daterange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post2460710

Even the ford guys are saying it is easier to swap in a cummins for 800hp than try w/ a powerstroke.

kc2006
10-17-2005, 01:23 PM
Wow you just keep convincing me more and more that your ******ed. Your all of 2 years older then me WHOA I should bow down to my elder!

Like I said, your just a "big man" behind the computer talking. And I looked at your old post again mr "how do i tell if it burns oil" you somehow became a mechanical genious in a year and a half after posting that question and then posting that you built your truck yourself. Or more like your friend who i'm sure is pretty smart put it together with you sitting watching thus meaning you built it. I've been in racing since i was 8, mechanicaly, I'll always be above you, some of us are just like that. But your right you know more about cummins then me, I don't care because dodge trucks are crap (again never did and not saying that cummins are crap). So you just made a thread about powerstroke exhaust systems turn into 20 pages of you calling BS On everyone else because your truck is sooo much greater. I hope your happy with your what 11 second truck? Talk to me when your truck runs 8's, ok fine i'll make it easy, 9's then I'll care when you can ALMOST keep up with my car.

Until then have fun and resort back to scaby's posting of that picture. You just ruined my lunch I must go make money now.

Lawnworks
10-17-2005, 01:49 PM
And I looked at your old post again mr "how do i tell if it burns oil" you somehow became a mechanical genious in a year and a half after posting that question and then posting that you built your truck yourself.

Please keep the facts straight. Five years not one and a half. Those questions were posted in 2000. I don't believe we come out of the womb w/ knowledge of diesel motors.

I hope your happy with your what 11 second truck? Talk to me when your truck runs 8's, ok fine i'll make it easy, 9's then I'll care when you can ALMOST keep up with my car.

Are you talking about racing the car that is on blocks? I don't think it runs 8s, 9s, or even runs at all!!

But your right you know more about cummins then me, I don't care because dodge trucks are crap (again never did and not saying that cummins are crap).

Dodge trucks are crap huh? I guess you have SO MUCH experience w/ them. Funny I haven't had a problem w/ them and I currently own 3.


I've been in racing since i was 8, mechanicaly, I'll always be above you, some of us are just like that.

Intelligent statement!


What say you about the elusive 800hp powerstroke??? Where is it??? Sounds like you are the one feeding BS! No response to the dieselstop threads? and hey how about you mention Scabys picture one more time... talk about a crutch.

Guthrie&Co
10-17-2005, 04:29 PM
How long is this going to go on? geez give it a rest lawnworks

Lawnworks
10-17-2005, 06:19 PM
Well that wouldn't be any fun!

kc2006
10-17-2005, 07:35 PM
How long is this going to go on? geez give it a rest lawnworks

scaby hush your not man enough to fight with someone who doesn't listen to anything said or dismisses everything heard and creates his own truth.

Lawnworks, my car isn't on block yo :waving: if you must its just awaiting paint and its done. YO

Also those posts i saw were in late 2001 the post about your big bad 1400ft lbs of torque homemade rig was made in 2003...under 2 years yo, last time I checked thats under 2 years.

And my intellegent statement about me being in racing since I was 8, apparently you've never heard of jr dragsters, and yes some of us are born with pure intellegence (IE Me..not "how do you tell if its burning oil DURR")

Finally, I dont care enough to actually sit there and find the posts all over again for the 800hp strokes, because I don't want to waste my time.

Whats it going to prove? Internationals are better then cummins? Just like your statement of your 3 OH GOD WOW 3!!! dodge trucks working automaticly means all dodges are perfect and everything else sucks....See you don't realize that when your making these statements you want everyone to stop and say you know what, lawnworks is right, lets all sell our trucks and get a dodge because his work. Or "you know what, lawnworks has a fast truck, lets get rid of ours and get a dodge" But yet when someone makes an OPINION you automaticly call BS on them and want them to go your way.

That sir..dad...old man whatever you want me to call you since your so much more wise then me and everyone else, is what bugs me the most. People like you that can't understand we're all talking about opinions. I don't know why i'm fighting about this, I like chevy's!

lawnmaniac883
10-17-2005, 09:46 PM
LMAO, give it up already fellas.

Ironmower
10-17-2005, 11:23 PM
Sounds like a warranty issue. I see that you deem cummins junk b/c of one problem. What happens not if but when your ford has a problem? Oh nevermind... I know you will say they are perfect.

Actually more than one problem. In addition to the cracked head (which was the final straw), it went through a couple of lift pumps as well. I got tired of getting the run around from the Dodge dealer and that sealed its fate.

Yeah thats great... don't really care. Glad your playing defense though.

What defense?? I mean you're only 21 years old kid, and on here that's enough to say you're wrong, you don't know anything, and you're still in the cradle.

You proved cummins was junk b/c of one example? Does that mean I can go grab a bill from a powerstroke w/ disfunctional injector and claim they are junk? I have never claimed Ford was junk. I like the cummins motor better, but I am not calling a powerstroke junk. However, if international keeps changing motors 7.3 to 6.0 to 6.4 are previous models considered junk? Their design was not worth keeping? Something to think about.

There is always room for improvement. Ford and International sees this as an opportunity to offer a better product. The old diesels were good, the new ones are even better. As long as they run for 200k and don't get to nickel and diming me early on like that Cummins did I'll keep running Ford pickups with International Engines.

Smalltimer worked on one type of cummins motor... a 1989 model... a totally different model than the one we are discussing.

We never defined which Cummins diesel this was. That one was a 6BT, Yours is what a 6BTA?? Aftercooled, big difference.:rolleyes:

Yeah that is wonderful, but odds are you won't live past 80. Looks like 13 years more... that has got to suck.

Odds are with that mouth of yours you won't make it to 30, damn kid, that really 'sucks'.

You don't find credibility in my statements? What statement is that? You are hiding behind vagueness. My proof stands on shady ground? How is that? I have provided dyno graphs, videos.... proof. None of which can be found for an "800hp" powerstroke which smalltimer says MUST exist. Some people just do not understand how hard 800hp is to obtain, which is easy to understand for someone who has no window to the diesel performance world except through a computer screen.

Again, you're all of what? 21 years old? What do you know at 21? How to put your panties on?

If anything your credibility is shaky b/c your trying to stand up for your boyfriend. Does your wife know about this?

Oh, that was a nice touch. I'm sure your boyfriends down at the rainbow club would have a good laugh at that and give you their services on the house tonight.

FYI, ST1 has a very nice looking girlfriend, and hell if I was his age, I'd be all over her like white on rice. Wishful thinking on my behalf. That's ok, I'm plenty happy with my wife.

Ironmower
10-17-2005, 11:25 PM
Got some time on your hands? I did not know anything about diesels when I was 18. But I have learned alot in 5 years not 6 months. Yes I have built 3 cummins motors at Garmon's Diesel Performance. Jeff Garmon taught me alot about Cummins. I have tweaked my Dodge Cummins work truck. I don't know everything about Cummins by any means, but I do know how to adjust it for a quick 50-80hp. And I know what parts to use to make a powerful truck. It is not rocket science. That Ranger comment was a cheap shot. That was when I was 16. Why don't you call Garmon's performance and see if I am lying?


I'd like to see the receipts for those engines he built for you. Nice try.

kc2006
10-17-2005, 11:31 PM
lmao Ironman. I must say the best one was

Odds are with that mouth of yours you won't make it to 30, damn kid, that really 'sucks'.

lmao thats too good. he got a fast truck he'll be able to get away from us powerstroke guys.

Lawnworks
10-18-2005, 08:28 AM
scaby hush your not man enough to fight with someone who doesn't listen to anything said or dismisses everything heard and creates his own truth.

Lawnworks, my car isn't on block yo :waving: if you must its just awaiting paint and its done. YO

Also those posts i saw were in late 2001 the post about your big bad 1400ft lbs of torque homemade rig was made in 2003...under 2 years yo, last time I checked thats under 2 years.

And my intellegent statement about me being in racing since I was 8, apparently you've never heard of jr dragsters, and yes some of us are born with pure intellegence (IE Me..not "how do you tell if its burning oil DURR")

Finally, I dont care enough to actually sit there and find the posts all over again for the 800hp strokes, because I don't want to waste my time.

Whats it going to prove? Internationals are better then cummins? Just like your statement of your 3 OH GOD WOW 3!!! dodge trucks working automaticly means all dodges are perfect and everything else sucks....See you don't realize that when your making these statements you want everyone to stop and say you know what, lawnworks is right, lets all sell our trucks and get a dodge because his work. Or "you know what, lawnworks has a fast truck, lets get rid of ours and get a dodge" But yet when someone makes an OPINION you automaticly call BS on them and want them to go your way.

That sir..dad...old man whatever you want me to call you since your so much more wise then me and everyone else, is what bugs me the most. People like you that can't understand we're all talking about opinions. I don't know why i'm fighting about this, I like chevy's!

Where is the 800hp powerstroke?????? Where is it???? I am feeding the BS??? You CANNOT backup what you say!!!! I never said Dodge was the best! I said IT WAS NOT JUNK! I said they make a good truck, something you guys cannot handle, because of your ford insecurity. You are always avoiding backing up your claims.

Lawnworks
10-18-2005, 08:30 AM
Actually more than one problem. In addition to the cracked head (which was the final straw), it went through a couple of lift pumps as well. I got tired of getting the run around from the Dodge dealer and that sealed its fate.



What defense?? I mean you're only 21 years old kid, and on here that's enough to say you're wrong, you don't know anything, and you're still in the cradle.



There is always room for improvement. Ford and International sees this as an opportunity to offer a better product. The old diesels were good, the new ones are even better. As long as they run for 200k and don't get to nickel and diming me early on like that Cummins did I'll keep running Ford pickups with International Engines.



We never defined which Cummins diesel this was. That one was a 6BT, Yours is what a 6BTA?? Aftercooled, big difference.:rolleyes:



Odds are with that mouth of yours you won't make it to 30, damn kid, that really 'sucks'.



Again, you're all of what? 21 years old? What do you know at 21? How to put your panties on?



Oh, that was a nice touch. I'm sure your boyfriends down at the rainbow club would have a good laugh at that and give you their services on the house tonight.

FYI, ST1 has a very nice looking girlfriend, and hell if I was his age, I'd be all over her like white on rice. Wishful thinking on my behalf. That's ok, I'm plenty happy with my wife.


Yeah we did define which engine it was... it was a 1989 dodge cummins... go back and look at the post. Well I guess cummins just don't need improvement w/ the same basic design from 1989 to 2006.... hmmmmm.

Lawnworks
10-18-2005, 08:32 AM
I'd like to see the receipts for those engines he built for you. Nice try.


I will show you the receipts for the parts I paid for... there is no labor b/c I did it. Can't handle the truth?

Lawnworks
10-18-2005, 08:33 AM
lmao Ironman. I must say the best one was

Odds are with that mouth of yours you won't make it to 30, damn kid, that really 'sucks'.

lmao thats too good. he got a fast truck he'll be able to get away from us powerstroke guys.

Right on, it was the best one, since it proved absolutely nothing for your arguement.

Eclipse
10-18-2005, 09:47 AM
Age is irrevelant when concering how much knowledge one has about a particular topic. Age can have a potential impact on knowledge but it is not absolute.

Smalltimer is still wrong with several of his comments and still does not want to step up to the plate. Smalltimer worked on one Cummins engine and now he is an expert :rolleyes: Ironmower his is buddy and feels the need to defend him.

Ironmower had one Cummins engine with a catastropic failure so that proves all Cummins engines are bad :rolleyes:

This thread is becoming less factual and informative with every page.

UNISCAPER
10-18-2005, 10:52 AM
Man you guys need more profitable work!

kc2006
10-18-2005, 01:48 PM
This thread is becoming less factual and informative with every page.

However, it is getting funnier and funnier to see lawnworks freaking out more and more with each page. :waving:

Lawnworks
10-18-2005, 03:32 PM
Just seeing how long you guys want to continue! BTW I made a special present for all you powerstokers.

Smalltimer1
10-18-2005, 03:58 PM
I will show you the receipts for the parts I paid for... there is no labor b/c I did it. Can't handle the truth?


Haven't seen proof that it was your work yet??

kc2006
10-18-2005, 04:15 PM
lmao lawnworks, why you takin pics of a cummins? haha

Hey I was reading thedieselstop today, supposidly there is a truck that ran high 10's, the company hasn't fully come out and said it because I think it only lasted a short while but the hint is that it went 10's. Also I read hypermax is bringing out a kit that will produce 800hp and 1400ft lbs of torque. Its something like 20K bucks though.

Did you find me a cummins to put in my truck yet cheap?

Lawnworks
10-18-2005, 05:58 PM
Haven't seen proof that it was your work yet??

Garmon's Performance Diesel
770-898-8585

Lawnworks
10-18-2005, 06:12 PM
lmao lawnworks, why you takin pics of a cummins? haha

Hey I was reading thedieselstop today, supposidly there is a truck that ran high 10's, the company hasn't fully come out and said it because I think it only lasted a short while but the hint is that it went 10's. Also I read hypermax is bringing out a kit that will produce 800hp and 1400ft lbs of torque. Its something like 20K bucks though.

Did you find me a cummins to put in my truck yet cheap?

What is the link? I have never heard of a 800hp kit. I have never heard of any such thing for dodges... more like drop the truck off at Schieds w/ 30k. I don't even know dodges can be built to 800hp for 20k... the transmission upgrades would be at least 5k-10k. Shoot if there WERE a 10 second powerstroke... the video would be all over the internet w/ guys like you shoving it in cummins' guys faces!

kc2006
10-18-2005, 07:34 PM
we wouldnt be shoving it in your face because you could easily pull the 10 second truckS with cummins that run faster or isnt there ones in the 9's? No need to shove it in their face.

Eclipse
10-18-2005, 08:11 PM
isnt there ones in the 9's?

No street trucks that I know of in the 9's.

Eclipse
10-18-2005, 08:18 PM
Haven't seen proof that it was your work yet??

You're back :)

I haven't seen any proof that 1/2 your comments are true.

Maybe you should provide some proof before you ask for it :rolleyes:

Smalltimer1
10-18-2005, 09:09 PM
What is the link? I have never heard of a 800hp kit. I have never heard of any such thing for dodges... more like drop the truck off at Schieds w/ 30k. I don't even know dodges can be built to 800hp for 20k... the transmission upgrades would be at least 5k-10k. Shoot if there WERE a 10 second powerstroke... the video would be all over the internet w/ guys like you shoving it in cummins' guys faces!


There is a 10 sec. PSD.

http://www.hypermaxdiesel.com/feature.php?featureID=2

PROOF.

Smalltimer1
10-18-2005, 09:10 PM
You're back :)

I haven't seen any proof that 1/2 your comments are true.

Maybe you should provide some proof before you ask for it :rolleyes:

Read and weep....:D

Eclipse
10-18-2005, 09:47 PM
There is a 10 sec. PSD.

http://www.hypermaxdiesel.com/feature.php?featureID=2

PROOF.

Proof of what?

The link show me a pic of a Ranger with a 6.0 PS. All it says is that it went 205 on the salt flats. No 1/4 mile time. No HP.

Ok great. Is there more information about this truck that is relevant to the topic at hand? I didn't know we were talking about top speeds? Is there another link for additional information?

Is this truck street legal? Not that I really care if it is or not but I thought we were primarily discussing street legal truck when were are talking 1/4 mile time slips.

Eclipse
10-18-2005, 09:50 PM
Read and weep....:D

What are you proving to me? See my post above.

BTW - I never said there was not a 10 second PS.

Eclipse
10-18-2005, 09:57 PM
Since you want to post completely irrevelant infoprmation to the topic at hand here is the Banks Dakota with a 5.9.

http://www.bankspower.com/sidewinder.cfm

It says top speed of 222. So what? The site does go on to say that the truck weighs in at just under 5000lbs, it is street legal, gets close to 22mpg, has over 700hp, and turns low 12's in the quarter at 115mph. Personally given the wieght of their truck their 1/4 mile times do not impress me especially seeing how big of a budget they had to work with.

Again this truck does not provide much information to the topic at hand.

Smalltimer1
10-18-2005, 10:05 PM
Proof of what?

The link show me a pic of a Ranger with a 6.0 PS. All it says is that it went 205 on the salt flats. No 1/4 mile time. No HP.

Ok great. Is there more information about this truck that is relevant to the topic at hand? I didn't know we were talking about top speeds? Is there another link for additional information?

Is this truck street legal? Not that I really care if it is or not but I thought we were primarily discussing street legal truck when were are talking 1/4 mile time slips.


That is proof that #1. there are high powered PSD's out there, #2. with little to no modification, it probably could run 10's if the programming parameters were adjusted for that purpose.

You'll have to ask them through email if they will tell you, as it may be a trade secret as of now.

UNISCAPER
10-18-2005, 10:06 PM
Dang someone had too many carots!
The real issue is this....I didn't see any toilet paper which means, either the person doing the dumping stood up without wiping to take the picture, or stood next to someone after they got done and had not wiped....

Gross.......

Eclipse
10-18-2005, 10:20 PM
That is proof that #1. there are high powered PSD's out there,

#2. with little to no modification, it probably could run 10's if the programming parameters were adjusted for that purpose.

You'll have to ask them through email if they will tell you, as it may be a trade secret as of now.

#1 - I don't think I said, or even Lawnworks said, there was not high powered PSD's. What is high powered though? That question is very subjective. I questioned if there is one over 6XX HP. Are you sure that truck is 700+? Is is over 800HP (800 seems to be the number that has been talked about most on this thread reguarding high HP)?

On #2 - There you go again with your statements that have absolutely no proof or validity to them. Do you have some proprietary information as to the programming of the 6.0L PSD?

Could you please post the secret information that you received via email. Maybe then we can continue on with the discussion.

Team_Yamaha
10-18-2005, 10:42 PM
Last time at the dyno my 03 F-350 7.3L PSD/6spd, FX4, made 477.43 hp/826.74 tq, the truck is running a custom chip, Mini me injectors, Hypermax H2E turbo, forged rods, cam, Haisley twin disk clutch and much more :rolleyes: The truck now has 80,000 miles on it and still going strong. And my 99 F-350 7.3L PSD/6spd, DRW, 4X4 made 294.16 hp/637.61 tq. and this truck has 240,000 miles on it. These are both work trucks, and they are pulling trailers everyday usually loaded to 14,000-20,000+ lbs.

Smalltimer1
10-18-2005, 10:53 PM
#1 - I don't think I said, or even Lawnworks said, there was not high powered PSD's. What is high powered though? That question is very subjective. I questioned if there is one over 6XX HP. Are you sure that truck is 700+? Is is over 800HP (800 seems to be the number that has been talked about most on this thread reguarding high HP)?

He was saying 800hp, I would be willing to bet this one is in that range. As I stated earlier you will have to email them to find out the exact numbers, I just don't have the time to play your email games.

On #2 - There you go again with your statements that have absolutely no proof or validity to them. Do you have some proprietary information as to the programming of the 6.0L PSD?

And again you have no proof that they are wrong either.

What I meant by 'programming' was their program as to how they want it to perform for the top speed runs could probably be changed to do 1/4 mile runs quite handily.

Do you actually think it would be running a stock program to achieve that much speed??? No, because the kill switch would activate at about 98mph.

Could you please post the secret information that you received via email. Maybe then we can continue on with the discussion.

I never said I received secret information, I asked you to do it since you're the one searching for the proof. There you go misquoting me.

Here's what I said:

You'll have to ask them through email if they will tell you, as it may be a trade secret as of now.

Where did I say anywhere in that statement about receiving any secret emails??? Definite proof of being misquoted.

I've got my proof, now where's yours?

Guthrie&Co
10-18-2005, 11:35 PM
so the bottom line is if you want a dodge to have power you have to work on it, but if you want a truck with power out of the box...get a powerstroke

Lawnworks
10-18-2005, 11:37 PM
That is proof that #1. there are high powered PSD's out there, #2. with little to no modification, it probably could run 10's if the programming parameters were adjusted for that purpose.

You'll have to ask them through email if they will tell you, as it may be a trade secret as of now.


On what basis can it run a 10 second quartermile? 200mph does not mean much to me...powerstroke or cummins. It has more to do w/ areodynamcis(sp?) and gearing than horsepower. Do you know the hp? If the Ranger/Powerstroke runs slower than the Dakota/Cummins wouldn't it be safe to assume that it's quartermile time be higher? You have not proved anything w/ that picture. Where is the quarter mile video? Where is the dyno sheet? There is evidence in this thread to support 800hp cummins, but none so far for the powerstroke.

Lawnworks
10-18-2005, 11:39 PM
Last time at the dyno my 03 F-350 7.3L PSD/6spd, FX4, made 477.43 hp/826.74 tq, the truck is running a custom chip, Mini me injectors, Hypermax H2E turbo, forged rods, cam, Haisley twin disk clutch and much more :rolleyes: The truck now has 80,000 miles on it and still going strong. And my 99 F-350 7.3L PSD/6spd, DRW, 4X4 made 294.16 hp/637.61 tq. and this truck has 240,000 miles on it. These are both work trucks, and they are pulling trailers everyday usually loaded to 14,000-20,000+ lbs.

Impressive numbers... seems like the 7.3L is the one to hot rod rather than a 6.0.

Lawnworks
10-18-2005, 11:44 PM
so the bottom line is if you want a dodge to have power you have to work on it, but if you want a truck with power out of the box...get a powerstroke

I don't think this is the case at all. I know w/ the '03 and up Dodges they have 150rwhp chips. What hp are the chips available to the 6.0s?

Lawnworks
10-18-2005, 11:52 PM
He was saying 800hp, I would be willing to bet this one is in that range. As I stated earlier you will have to email them to find out the exact numbers, I just don't have the time to play your email games.



And again you have no proof that they are wrong either.

What I meant by 'programming' was their program as to how they want it to perform for the top speed runs could probably be changed to do 1/4 mile runs quite handily.

Do you actually think it would be running a stock program to achieve that much speed??? No, because the kill switch would activate at about 98mph.



I never said I received secret information, I asked you to do it since you're the one searching for the proof. There you go misquoting me.

Here's what I said:



Where did I say anywhere in that statement about receiving any secret emails??? Definite proof of being misquoted.

I've got my proof, now where's yours?

So we are supposed to prove that your proof can be proved? If it was proof, then it would not need to be proved, right? So therefore I don't think you can consider it proof.

Webster's Dictionary says:

proof- the establishment of truth

Your link has proved a Ranger/Powerstroke can do 205. Your link has not proved hp. Your link has not proved a 1/4 mile time. However, your link has wasted about 10 minutes out of my day.

Guthrie&Co
10-18-2005, 11:59 PM
bullydog chip for the 6.0 155hp

Guthrie&Co
10-19-2005, 12:03 AM
superchips +150hp for the 6.0

Lawnworks
10-19-2005, 12:19 AM
I was wrong....190rwhp.

http://www.piersdiesel.com/DodgeTSTPM2.htm

not bad for $600!

Eclipse
10-19-2005, 12:23 AM
I just don't have the time to play your email games.


My email games. You're the one telling me to email them. What email games am I playing?




And again you have no proof that they are wrong either.


Ok so you have established that neigher of us have proof as to how fast that truck is in the 1/4. So we can make up whatever we want as it just may be true. LOL Let me try this. That truck is geared so high that it would struggle to make 100 in the quarter. If they re-geared it, put slicks on it, changed the "programming", it would surely turn high 9's in the 1/4. I know nothing about that truck so I am certinly not going to try to make up a BS line that just might be true because I think it to be so. :rolleyes:


What I meant by 'programming' was their program as to how they want it to perform for the top speed runs could probably be changed to do 1/4 mile runs quite handily

I know what you meant. So if a truck is running 205MPH on a top speed run, changing how it fuels when will allow it to run 10's in the 1/4. As I said a statement without any valididty. You know nothing about how that truck is set up.



I never said I received secret information, I asked you to do it since you're the one searching for the proof


You're right. I made a mistake (see that was easy to admit :) )I apologize for making an incorrect assumption about the possibility of additional information you have received about this truck. I assumed this incorrectly because you seemed to have some hidden knowledge about the truck you posted that "proved" something to us non-believers about how great a PS can be. I now realize that you know nothing more about this truck that any of us who read the link you posted. It is a Ranger with a 6.0 PS and it goes 205 MPH. That's great proof in regards to the topic at hand :rolleyes:


Definite proof of being misquoted.

I've got my proof, now where's yours?


What is this referring to? Where I was calling you out earlier in this thread because you failed to provide any evidence where I misquoted you? Too bad this instance happened today and that was a couple days ago :rolleyes:

Guthrie&Co
10-19-2005, 12:25 AM
thats fine and dandy but it took an extra clutch, pusher pump, air box mods, boost elbow. you cant really count that chip man. it took everything else to run it. ans these psd chips dont need all of that extra crap to function

Lawnworks
10-19-2005, 12:32 AM
thats fine and dandy but it took an extra clutch, pusher pump, air box mods, boost elbow. you cant really count that chip man. it took everything else to run it. ans these psd chips dont need all of that extra crap to function

Yep you are right. I was just saying ALL the newer diesels pretty much rock out w/ their c0ck out when it comes to chips. I think the Duramax takes the cake w/ over 500rwhp w/ just two chips... and of course a fully built tranny. :cool:

Eclipse
10-19-2005, 12:38 AM
thats fine and dandy but it took an extra clutch, pusher pump, air box mods, boost elbow. you cant really count that chip man. it took everything else to run it. ans these psd chips dont need all of that extra crap to function

Can you really add 150HP on a PS and use it? Don't EGT's get too hot if you add 150HP box to an otherwise stock PS? I'm guessing so, but if not then they must have a pretty good sized turbo in stock form.

Will a stock PS clutch hold up to 150 extra HP and the torque that is associated with it? If so then they put one heck of a clutch in it from the factory and I'll give them credit for that.

Smalltimer1
10-19-2005, 12:47 AM
So we are supposed to prove that your proof can be proved? If it was proof, then it would not need to be proved, right? So therefore I don't think you can consider it proof.

Webster's Dictionary says:

proof- the establishment of truth

Your link has proved a Ranger/Powerstroke can do 205. Your link has not proved hp. Your link has not proved a 1/4 mile time. However, your link has wasted about 10 minutes out of my day.

You have no proof that it was wrong or right either. No one that I have talked to knows any official numbers as of yet, but it would not be wrong to say that truck has at least 700hp, if not more to even come close to that kind of speed.

Guthrie&Co
10-19-2005, 12:54 AM
Can you really add 150HP on a PS and use it? Don't EGT's get too hot if you add 150HP box to an otherwise stock PS? I'm guessing so, but if not then they must have a pretty good sized turbo in stock form.

Will a stock PS clutch hold up to 150 extra HP and the torque that is associated with it? If so then they put one heck of a clutch in it from the factory and I'll give them credit for that.
so what are you trying to say?

Eclipse
10-19-2005, 12:56 AM
Can you really add 150HP on a PS and use it? Don't EGT's get too hot if you add 150HP box to an otherwise stock PS? I'm guessing so, but if not then they must have a pretty good sized turbo in stock form.

Will a stock PS clutch hold up to 150 extra HP and the torque that is associated with it? If so then they put one heck of a clutch in it from the factory and I'll give them credit for that.

Sorry the rest of my post got cut off and I could not edit it anymore so I had to add another one.

My point is I do not think any of these trucks were designed to be able to handle an extra 150RWHP and hold up reliably for any length time if the driver takes advnatage of the HP. By that I mean if you drive like a grandma 100% of the time you could probably have 600HP+ on an otherwise stock truck and everything would be just fine.

If the PS/Ford can handle 150 extra RWHP and be able to stand up to the driver using the extra HP that is certailny a great attribute to the PS/Ford.

Lawnworks
10-19-2005, 12:57 AM
You have no proof that it was wrong or right either. No one that I have talked to knows any official numbers as of yet, but it would not be wrong to say that truck has at least 700hp, if not more to even come close to that kind of speed.

Actually it would be wrong b/c you do not know the weight, gearing, etc. You cannot acurately make any assumptions based on what little information you have.

Smalltimer1
10-19-2005, 12:57 AM
My email games. You're the one telling me to email them. What email games am I playing?

You're really turned around now.

Ok so you have established that neigher of us have proof as to how fast that truck is in the 1/4. So we can make up whatever we want as it just may be true. LOL Let me try this. That truck is geared so high that it would struggle to make 100 in the quarter. If they re-geared it, put slicks on it, changed the "programming", it would surely turn high 9's in the 1/4. I know nothing about that truck so I am certinly not going to try to make up a BS line that just might be true because I think it to be so. :rolleyes:

Ok Mr. Righteous and all knowing, have you ever heard of a split ratio gear box? High and low range? I'm not saying it has any of that, but those components would make it possible to go from having a very high top end to a very fast 0-60/.25 mile/etc.

None of that is b/s and I'm not playing Mr. Righteous brainiac either.

I know what you meant. So if a truck is running 205MPH on a top speed run, changing how it fuels when will allow it to run 10's in the 1/4. As I said a statement without any valididty. You know nothing about how that truck is set up.

Your statement is invalid as well if it is viewed as you see it. I may know nothing about its actual specs, but it would not be out of line to say its just fast, and that it can whoop anyone's truck here, even mine, since you think I think its so fast....:rolleyes:



You're right. I made a mistake (see that was easy to admit :) )I apologize for making an incorrect assumption about the possibility of additional information you have received about this truck. I assumed this incorrectly because you seemed to have some hidden knowledge about the truck you posted that "proved" something to us non-believers about how great a PS can be. I now realize that you know nothing more about this truck that any of us who read the link you posted. It is a Ranger with a 6.0 PS and it goes 205 MPH. That's great proof in regards to the topic at hand :rolleyes:

The topic at hand was if cutting my muffler out would be a temporary cheaper alternative to putting a full exhaust system on. Nothing off topic about proving whether or not a PSD can make such and such power. All these Cummins vultures started this mess.:rolleyes:

What is this referring to? Where I was calling you out earlier in this thread because you failed to provide any evidence where I misquoted you? Too bad this instance happened today and that was a couple days ago :rolleyes:

You failed to read where I pointed it out. I failed to realize that so many people are vultures.

Smalltimer1
10-19-2005, 12:59 AM
Actually it would be wrong b/c you do not know the weight, gearing, etc. You cannot acurately make any assumptions based on what little information you have.


Again you have no proof of this speculation being right or wrong because information can be deduced or derived using what information is given. It would be logical to speculate that it is possible.

Lawnworks
10-19-2005, 01:05 AM
And it would be logical to speculate that it is not possible at all. But I think you just proved my point. You are speculating... not proving. So as of now... there is no 10 second powerstroke and there is no powerstroke over 700hp.

Guthrie&Co
10-19-2005, 01:17 AM
thats a pretty bold statement from you lawnworks. there are alot of racers out there that just dont brag about what they have.

Eclipse
10-19-2005, 01:26 AM
You're really turned around now.


Hmmm..ok???? I must be because I am having a hard time understanding your post again LOL What was all this about email games? I'm sorry did I suggest that you had to email someone for some additional information :rolleyes:


The topic at hand was if cutting my muffler out would be a temporary cheaper alternative to putting a full exhaust system on.


I think we both know that topic was left behind several pages ago.


You failed to read where I pointed it out.


Your post must be hidden from view on my PC because I just went back and looked for it to no avail. The only thing that I can find that may have been a possible attempt of providing evidence that I misquoted you I addressed in post 149.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Eclipse
10-19-2005, 01:31 AM
thats a pretty bold statement from you lawnworks. there are alot of racers out there that just dont brag about what they have.

I wonder the same thing. I wonder how many guys are out there that are turning great times with their trucks and nobody knows about it. Is there any? I'm sure there is but I can't believe that, unless they are running on a private track, nobdy in the respective arena (Chevy, Dodge, Ford) has seen and called attention to any of these trucks. If the driver is not boastful of his/her achievements I'm sure one of their friends is :)

This is something we will never know for sure but certainly and interesting thought.

Guthrie&Co
10-19-2005, 01:34 AM
what that said can the thread die now?

Dirty Water
10-19-2005, 01:45 AM
what that said can the thread die now?

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