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Rupslawn
09-29-2005, 03:17 AM
With the cost of diesel here at $3.19/gal, I thought of using biodiesel. $2.64/gal. Made with used cooking oils. Interesting info on different websites. Anyway, contacted the local truck dealer and asked if using it would pose any problems for my Chev W4500 (rebadged Isuzu NPR). He said that the manufacturer did not recommend it. So I shot off an email to Isuzu to get their response. Is anyone using biodiesel and if so, have you had any problems? What kind? Would welcome input from diesel mechanics. Mahalo.

topsites
09-29-2005, 03:49 AM
My only question is, where does one get such large amounts of used cooking oil? No doubt restaurants today use large quantities but again, how does one come by it?

Az Gardener
09-29-2005, 11:27 AM
I have been looking into it. There ane no stations carrying the stuff locally so my father in law (a miner and part time chemist) thinks it would be easy and affordable to produce the stuff. I did a goggle search by entering biodiesel recipe. The one I looked at convinced me pretty quickly to do what I do and stay out of the biodiesel production industry. Also given the costs of injectors and injector pumps it would keep me up ant night, if it wasn't properly produced. You might consider a Natural gas conversion if you have reg gas trucks I have one and I'm paying 1.65 for cng.gas now but I hear its going up. The added benefit is its better on the engine I have 150,000 on my 00 F 150 No problems I run about 30-40% cng for the life of the truck mileage and power are nearly the same but I don't pull much weight.

LawnScapers of Dayton
09-29-2005, 02:15 PM
www.freedomfuel.com.

actually they say you can produce 40 gal. per day at $.70 per gallon.......Any fast food restaruant (sp?) will give you the used oil for free. They have to pay to get rid of it. Just get some 55 gal. barrels and a portable pump......

I am working on a plan for 4-5 of my diesel driving buddies to go in on a production system. $3000.00-4000.00 to start up.

Biodiesel has better lubricity that petro diesel, better on your engine.....and makes your truck smell like french fries as it goes down the road......

Derek

Albemarle Lawn
09-29-2005, 08:39 PM
He fuels his E320 CDI on 100% biodiesel from Pacific Biofuels.

What year is your NPR? It likely does not even use a Common-Rail high pressure system as in Nelson's Mercedes so you should be OK. Being in Hawaii you have a big advantage of consistent temperatures.

The dealer WILL ALWAYS cover their butt by saying do not use biodiesel because loosely interpreted it can mean crap fuels and used fryer oil without proper filtration.

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/users/artists/willie.shtm

Boycea
09-29-2005, 09:26 PM
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=116888

This is a thread that was started last month pertaining to the issue

lawnmaniac883
09-29-2005, 09:27 PM
Ok, so basically biodiesel is produced from WVO (waste vegetable oil). What occurs in the fuelmiester kits is the WVO gets combined with a certain amount of lye (consistent to the uncleanlyness of the WVO) and methanol. A reaction causes the lye to remove glycerin from the molecules of WVO and the methanol replaces the glycerin. The methanol boosts the cetane (basically octane rating in diesel terms) and allows the new biodiesel to burn well in almost any diesel applicaition. There are two ways to produce biodiesel, one is the fuelmeister kit and the other is the apple seed way or something. If you are going to do this, do it right and buy a fuelmeister, the apple seed way utilizes a water heater whereas the fuel meister is actually built for the production of biodiesel. Hope I made myself understandable, I am not affiliated with fuel meister in anyway BTW.

Eclipse
09-29-2005, 10:27 PM
A couple clarifications here:

Biodiesel is not only made from WVO but it can be made from almost any plant oil, new or used. Techincally it could also be made from animal fats. The most common oil source for commercially available Biodiesel as of now is soybean oil.

Some restaurants in are area are now getting paid for thieir used oil (most likely by a Biodiesel producing company) so getting it for free will most likely become a thing of the past in most areas.

I'm not familiar with Isuzu engines but if you are concerned about running straight Bio, ie B100, why not run B20. It is 100% safe for almost any diesel engine.

efaubert1
10-04-2005, 12:43 PM
Diesel engines were originally designed to run on peanut oil. As for Bio, you can make it even simpler if you want to run SVO. If you have two tanks all you HAVE to do is start on diesel, and stop using the diesel before shutdown. You can switch over to straight SVO for the matter, but you will loose some cetane value and a 30 micron filter would be recommended. It only becomes an issue of needing to blend SVO in the winter, unless you have a tank heater to keep it from thickening in low temps. In Hawaii I doubt this would be an issue at all. As for produced bio-diesel, it's pretty much all we run, soy-diesel actually. I'm too lazy to install a second tank on my truck.

lawnmaniac883
10-04-2005, 10:32 PM
As they may have originally been designed to run on peanut oil, the new sensitive HPCR injection systems and the like were designed to run on DIESEL FUEL or BIODIESEL, not straight veggie. 87 octane vs 89 octane battle is no different.

Eclipse
10-04-2005, 11:26 PM
As they may have originally been designed to run on peanut oil, the new sensitive HPCR injection systems and the like were designed to run on DIESEL FUEL or BIODIESEL, not straight veggie. 87 octane vs 89 octane battle is no different.

Well said, it's not the engine that will care, it will pretty much burn any "oil type" fuel, even motor oil, but the injection system may not be as happy.

efaubert1
10-04-2005, 11:41 PM
As they may have originally been designed to run on peanut oil, the new sensitive HPCR injection systems and the like were designed to run on DIESEL FUEL or BIODIESEL, not straight veggie. 87 octane vs 89 octane battle is no different.

You should visit a site called the diesel stop sometime. There are many "new" diesels running on straight WVO. Primarily you heat it, remove the water and fat content by filtering. Blended vegtable oil flows more like diesel, but may still require some heating in the winter, and Straight Vegetable Oil has no anuimal fat to seperate out so you only have to filter itt for water. The there is a heating unit in line that gets the WVO to 140 degrees so it flows like diesel. The injectors are made to inject, and as long as it is roughly the same viscosity as "diesel" the injectors could care less, it is the pump you need to worry about.

Eclipse
10-04-2005, 11:58 PM
The injectors are made to inject, and as long as it is roughly the same viscosity as "diesel" the injectors could care less, it is the pump you need to worry about.


That's what we are talking about, the injection system, including the pump. Agreed the pump may or may not like the alternative fuels.

One thing to note is that some injeciton pumps are lubricated and cooled by the fuel. Heating the to 140 degrees may not be helping the life the the IP any.

For some interesting reading about running SVO/WVO as a fuel source this link has a ton of good info.

http://www.uidaho.edu/bae/biodiesel/raw%20vegetable%20oils_literature%20review.doc

Personally I would not feel comfortable running SVO/WVO at higher than a 20% ratio blended with diesel fuel.

RonB
10-05-2005, 12:12 AM
last Sunday on CBS "Sunday Morning" show there was a story about a guy with a truck stop in Texas - Carl's truck stop or somethin. He had to build a town and was the mayor for some reason .. Anyway, Willie Nelson is now a partner, I think and they are producing a biofuel. Willie was on the show too. I don't recall everything but they are going into it bigtime.

RonB
10-05-2005, 12:16 AM
here's the link

http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/locations-TX-Carls%20Corner.html

googled - carl's truck stop texas.

Grass Man
10-05-2005, 12:19 AM
.... Thanks for the input :cool:.

Smalltimer1
10-05-2005, 12:45 AM
last Sunday on CBS "Sunday Morning" show there was a story about a guy with a truck stop in Texas - Carl's truck stop or somethin. He had to build a town and was the mayor for some reason .. Anyway, Willie Nelson is now a partner, I think and they are producing a biofuel. Willie was on the show too. I don't recall everything but they are going into it bigtime.


Last I checked ol' Willie was making a lot of different products--mostly of the alcoholic variety. :D

efaubert1
10-05-2005, 01:17 AM
If I were to do it, I would run strictly SVO as it has the lubricity needed for the pump, and only needs to be heated in the cold of winter. But then again, If heat were truly not a factor for diesel fuel 18 wheelers wouldn't have tank heaters. And the injector system on Freightliner is as sensitive as any of the big 3 baby diesels correct? That's a redundant question by the way. Anyway, I don't know if I WOULD run straight WVO/SVO, but I know I could. For now I'll stick with 20% soy-diesel that I presently run from co-op.