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stumper1620
09-29-2005, 07:44 AM
Bid the new Library last week, 15,000 sq.ft turf, all tight area with a retention in the back, Lots of trimming,(power poles, signs, steet signs, 12 inside corners on the building, grass to the foundation, a/c units, power transformers all in the turf areas) I figured about 15 to 20 miniutes trimming, 700' of sidewalk edging, blow 15,000 sq. ft lot and all walks. I bid 40 bucks a cut for full serve, I got under bid, i really am getting sick of this. some little cut rate sombeech is do this all around here.
opinions please, Am I over priced?

PMLAWN
09-29-2005, 07:54 AM
Am I over priced?
Are YOU over priced??? only you can answer this as only you know your numbers.
To plug in those numbers to my rates you are UNDER.
That job would have been a loser for me and I think for you also so look at this as a happy time. Keep the rates high and keep your standards high and the rest will go away and you will get many call backs.
There are 2 ways to make no profit. Sit on your but and do nothing all day or work hard and sweat and beat yourself up for the same no profit.

stumper1620
09-29-2005, 07:57 AM
I felt the same as you say, It was my loss leader, hoped for the snow & ice control, I went with what I considered way low and am totally baffled that somebody went lower. i figure it must be they bid mow only.
Or my bid was used as a start point for the other guy. I suspect that is what happened.

PMLAWN
09-29-2005, 08:03 AM
I felt the same as you say, It was my loss leader, hoped for the snow & ice control, I went with what I considered way low and am totally baffled that somebody went lower. i figure it must be they bid mow only.
Or my bid was used as a start point for the other guy. I suspect that is what happened.
I will say this and I believe others will follow. Never price low on a job now in the hope of getting future work at a better price.
1st it almost never comes and 2nd they now class you as a cheap worker.
Do not take this the wrong way as all that say this (me included) are saying it from experience

stumper1620
09-29-2005, 08:13 AM
I will say this and I believe others will follow. Never price low on a job now in the hope of getting future work at a better price.
1st it almost never comes and 2nd they now class you as a cheap worker.
Do not take this the wrong way as all that say this (me included) are saying it from experience
They had no bid sheet or specs to work from, I bid the whole season lawn care, ( fert, aeration, cleanups, the works) in the long run had they taken the bid i would have been in the black on my numbers, the snow is still unawarded, I may still get that. I 'm just not sure if I want to accept it without lawn care to go with it, this is right on my route and would work out good for me as a full serve account. there is not very many of us around here that do Ice control and so I figure I will get a call for that, the guy that under bid me I suspect don't plow and I don't think he has the equpment or knowledge for ice.

But, I do get your drift.

PMLAWN
09-29-2005, 08:16 AM
They had no bid sheet or specs to work from, I bid the whole season lawn care, ( fert, aeration, cleanups, the works) in the long run had they taken the bid i would have been in the black on my numbers, the snow is still unawarded, I may still get that. I 'm just not sure if I want to accept it without lawn care to go with it, this is right on my route and would work out good for me as a full serve account. there is not very many of us around here that do Ice control and so I figure I will get a call for that, the guy that under bid me I suspect don't plow and I don't think he has the equpment or knowledge for ice.

But, I do get your drift.
Good luck with it and hope it works out. By the way what it this "snow plowing" stuff that you talk of?? :D

stumper1620
09-29-2005, 08:21 AM
Good luck with it and hope it works out. By the way what it this "snow plowing" stuff that you talk of?? :D
LOL, fun, fun, fun without sun. I love winter.
Lost the bid but I bet I hear form them before spring, thing is my bid had a 5 day limit.

stumper1620
09-29-2005, 08:24 AM
I think I know the guy that got the bid, If its him, His work sucks, I've been dealing with his low rate bids all year, he wins a lot but, I don't see him making it with 2 helpers, bet he Ain't paying taxes. They should have taken the cheap bid from me, now it won't be cheap when they call back. :D payup

olderthandirt
09-29-2005, 09:57 AM
I got the same thing here, except its a retired guy thats bidding at 1/3-1/2 my rates
Its a bear to loose the bids to someone like that BUT he works 4-6 hrs a day 5 days a week for what I could do in 7-8 hrs.
Plus he can't do snow so I raise my plow price up because there not full service customers and in the end I make out fine, he's must be happy and the customers loose money because they get a part time guy thats can't do apps and does not offer all the services that my bids included. So later on down the rd. they will be needing what I offer and he does not.
BTW-- no bid sheet means bid it as cheap as you can and charge extra for all the other services that you do. If you really want the job

stumper1620
09-29-2005, 10:03 AM
I got the same thing here, except its a retired guy thats bidding at 1/3-1/2 my rates
Its a bear to loose the bids to someone like that BUT he works 4-6 hrs a day 5 days a week for what I could do in 7-8 hrs.
Plus he can't do snow so I raise my plow price up because there not full service customers and in the end I make out fine, he's must be happy and the customers loose money because they get a part time guy thats can't do apps and does not offer all the services that my bids included. So later on down the rd. they will be needing what I offer and he does not.
BTW-- no bid sheet means bid it as cheap as you can and charge extra for all the other services that you do. If you really want the job
I hear ya Mac,
I thought 40 bucks a full service cut was cheap. went high on everything else. this guy is getting on my nerves a little, he has gotten a few of the places I've bid, but then again 3 of them came to me after a few weeks of his service. he is a real hack, trim work looks like he11.
I can tell every lawn he services.

dcplace2004
09-29-2005, 11:35 AM
for chosing the lowballer...If it is just price, just wait it out...wait until the season starts and look at the edge job, grass laying around after the cut, etc...then approach the idiots at the library and say "see, you get what you pay for."...many would say here to just leave it alone...I am in the process of constructing a website devoted to showing my city just what the lowballers and S@##bs are all about, and why not to go with them...Licenses, insurance, criminals, shoddy work, rush jobs, you get what you pay for, etc, etc...I am going to post the signs to my website EVERYWHERE!!!!!

dcplace2004
09-29-2005, 11:56 AM
and telling the customer they get what they pay for...I thought it was funny to take the accounts from the lowballers--I wave and honk the horn at them on occasion when I see them...in addition, the customer went with my higher charge...They will not survive and will have to fold...

stumper1620
09-30-2005, 06:51 AM
for chosing the lowballer...If it is just price, just wait it out...wait until the season starts and look at the edge job, grass laying around after the cut, etc...then approach the idiots at the library and say "see, you get what you pay for."...many would say here to just leave it alone...I am in the process of constructing a website devoted to showing my city just what the lowballers and S@##bs are all about, and why not to go with them...Licenses, insurance, criminals, shoddy work, rush jobs, you get what you pay for, etc, etc...I am going to post the signs to my website EVERYWHERE!!!!!
They say he came in cheaper than me, He did his first cut and crappy trim, place don't look very nice, i give them a couple cuts be fore I check in to see what their satisfaction rating is.
I think I will get called for next season.

rodfather
09-30-2005, 06:57 AM
I'm to the point now I don't stop the truck for anything under 40 bucks. It ain't worth it. Period

dcplace2004
09-30-2005, 11:08 AM
if more LCOs would do this the customers would HAVE to pay for service, or they would just have to get their mowers out and get busy...the people that underbid eventually fold, and for that, I smile...

jbell113
09-30-2005, 05:16 PM
Bid the new Library last week, 15,000 sq.ft turf, all tight area with a retention in the back, Lots of trimming,(power poles, signs, steet signs, 12 inside corners on the building, grass to the foundation, a/c units, power transformers all in the turf areas) I figured about 15 to 20 miniutes trimming, 700' of sidewalk edging, blow 15,000 sq. ft lot and all walks. I bid 40 bucks a cut for full serve, I got under bid, i really am getting sick of this. some little cut rate sombeech is do this all around here.
opinions please, Am I over priced?

Stick to your pricing...I have been told many times by customers that my price was not the lowest and not the highest. Most of the ones I get are because the liked my contract and my in between price. My contracts are 1 page and to the point.

stumper1620
09-30-2005, 06:01 PM
Stick to your pricing...I have been told many times by customers that my price was not the lowest and not the highest. Most of the ones I get are because the liked my contract and my in between price. My contracts are 1 page and to the point.
mine is 2 pages,
page 1 is service details ect. page to is disclaimers ect.

Jason Rose
09-30-2005, 07:03 PM
$40 a cut for what you described seems almost low to average for even our little town's standards! I can tell for sure that was your loss leader... LOL, around here it's the opposite, do snow for cheap to get foot in door for mowing!

So sad to see places like that go to the "low bidder" even sadder to drive by them every week and see the horrible job that's being done.

I have, however, lost a larger commercial job here a couple years ago to a lco that drastically underbid me. (I was at $115 and they were like $75) There is literally THOUSANDS of feet of edging and trimming. Takes as long to trim and edge as to mow, total about 3 hrs for solo) I really thought it would go to hell fast as soon as the guy found out how involved it was. Suprisingly it looks... ahem... better then when I was doing it...

lawnmaniac883
09-30-2005, 07:35 PM
I feel bad for you for underbidding yourself as it is, but who is the moron that went lower than 40 bux a cut? LOL

olderthandirt
09-30-2005, 07:46 PM
I have, however, lost a larger commercial job here a couple years ago to a lco that drastically underbid me. (I was at $115 and they were like $75) There is literally THOUSANDS of feet of edging and trimming. Takes as long to trim and edge as to mow, total about 3 hrs for solo) I really thought it would go to hell fast as soon as the guy found out how involved it was. Suprisingly it looks... ahem... better then when I was doing it...

Its not surprising, if your retired and want to make some extra $$$ or you work in a factory or some other job and only make $10 an hr then at $75 for 3 hrs work your making twice what you would at your regular job and as for retirees they usually have a great work ethic and all the time in the world.

You can't compete with those guys so don't try. The only god part is that they usually don't last long, retirees get old and its hard work and the part timers get tired of giving up the little free time he has.

stumper1620
09-30-2005, 07:53 PM
Its not surprising, if your retired and want to make some extra $$$ or you work in a factory or some other job and only make $10 an hr then at $75 for 3 hrs work your making twice what you would at your regular job and as for retirees they usually have a great work ethic and all the time in the world.

You can't compete with those guys so don't try. The only god part is that they usually don't last long, retirees get old and its hard work and the part timers get tired of giving up the little free time he has.
I sure hope your right Mac,
I'm really getting sick of this guy going less than me on all the commercials, fortunately he can't get all my customers, they see his work & they know mine.
I am very picky. :D

ed2hess
09-30-2005, 08:41 PM
Stumper,
What was the monthly charge that you bid? Sometimes you want to be careful not to include things like aeration and parking lot cleaning and the number of cuts could be a factor.

stumper1620
09-30-2005, 09:15 PM
Stumper,
What was the monthly charge that you bid? Sometimes you want to be careful not to include things like aeration and parking lot cleaning and the number of cuts could be a factor.
I bid it based on 28 cuts at 40.00 and 3 cuts at 50 with the bagger during leaf season, monthly cut only came out to 160 and some change, aeration and fert. were added on separately, along with plowing and salt totally broke down. overall full year total on 12 months if they took the whole package it was around 9000.00 or 750.00 per month for 12 months.

ed2hess
09-30-2005, 10:48 PM
Stumper,

The $9000 is BIG bucks for this kind of property. Don't know how you got from $2000($160x12mo.) to the $9000 but that would be a lot of snow and aeration? The mowing part is a little high for our market , I would guess it would be less than $100 per month.

stumper1620
09-30-2005, 11:39 PM
Stumper,

The $9000 is BIG bucks for this kind of property. Don't know how you got from $2000($160x12mo.) to the $9000 but that would be a lot of snow and aeration? The mowing part is a little high for our market , I would guess it would be less than $100 per month.
I said 160 and some change per month for mow, trim & blow, fert and controls are extras, clean ups are extras, aeration is extra, min. around here is 18 plows a season, salting to de icing is a challange especially at a library,
in Texas you probably can't imagine the snow accumulations we have here in west Michigan, but the plow rate is right for the screwed up shape of the lot
and all that sidewalk clearing.
what ever, i'm not looking at the bid right now and I don't remember all the exact numbers.

stumper1620
09-30-2005, 11:57 PM
sorry Ed,
My miss on this the 160 a month is for 6 mos. lawn care only.