IRS Tip line?

[eggy]

Does anyone know the number to turn in people who do not pay taxes? I was going to help out a few scrubs around here.......

[AVRECON]

I don't know but I guarantee that it ain't in the phone book. Don't believe me go look.

[ShortCuts]

I was wondering the same thing. There is the one company in town that doesn't pay taxes. His best guy is working for me now and he told me how this guys grossed over 100k last summer and only reported 4k of that to the IRS. Someone please tell me how I am suppose to compete with this guy? This guy had the nerve to tell some of the guys he had working for him that he has 5 summers worth of earnings buried in town somwhere. I don't know if this is true....but this is what he said. I have a feeling this guy is going down!

[bob]

IRS Criminal Investigation Group 1-800-829-0409.

[lee b]

Kinda vicious turning people into the IRS, don't you think. If you can't compete without being under-handed, then you're no better than he is.

[MIDSOUTH]

Originally posted by lee blount
Kinda vicious turning people into the IRS, don't you think. If you can't compete without being under-handed, then you're no better than he is.

I agree with Lee 100%.

[eggy]

So stealing is ok???? Hmmm not paying taxes is stealing .....hmmmm stealing good, truth bad hmmmmm

[lee b]

So you consider keeping your hard earned money, instead of giving it to a bloated government, stealing? Hmmmmmmm..... Being a snitch ....good? Hmmmmmm......OH!!!! I get it your a liberal......

[ron]

HOW ABOUT BUSTING PEOPLE WHO CALL THE IRS,THEY ARE COMMITING A CRIMINAL ACT YES.......OK HOW MANY TIMES EGGY HAVE YOU NOT TURNED IN ANY TAXES>.......atleast once right,then you have also committed a criminal act.why don't you get a hold of your local state and county license authority and turn them in.....

[Esby]

Does he not paying all of his taxes affect your business. If so please tell me how. Personally I think it is his business and only his. If the IRS wants to track his small assets, and get their share from him, then let THEM do it. Are you trying to drive him staight out of business by doing that? Its probably not going to work if he is grossing 100K a year. Sounds like he has enough business, unless his overhead is extremely high. Personally, I would stay out of it. I dont know this guy fom adam, but he could become rather upset if he found that YOU were the one to tun him in.

[lawrence stone]

Tell me Ron what kind of man goes to PRISON voluntary for
20 years?

[HOMER]

I think the best policy to have would be to mind your own business and not worry about what everybody else is doing. If your constantly woried about the other guy when do you have time to worry about your own. If they are doing things illegal they'll get caught soon enough without any help from any of us.

[ron]

Well Let's se Stone How about a rapist who didn't comitt the crime but wants to take the rap to cover for his friend or a family member.

[HOMER]

I think with DNA test's they can figure that one out now, try another analogy.

[VLM]

Wow! what a hot topic! If you simply suspect this guy of being a tax cheat then you are making a big mistake by calling the IRS. We cant start calling in the feds on any guy who pisses us off. That is unethical. However, if you have concrete PROOF that he is DELIBERATELY defrauding the US Treasury dept. (which is ofcourse a crime) then that makes you an accomplis (having knowledge of a crime) and you are breaking the law if you do not report him.

[jrodgers]

I also agree with Lee and Homer 100% their posts pretty much say it all!!!!

[LoneStarLawn]

More than likely when turning in that company the IRS will ask about yours...He then would be audited as well as you will too...maybe not this year but next...I'm sure they will put you on some list. I would leave matters alone, if he is running an illegit business then he will get caught on his own. Taking out the competition this way is considered unethical..though you believe he is doing wrong (I say this because you have only one person word and no proof)

[MikeGA]

Lets see, If you turn this individual in and he is in the lawncare business and he isn't paying taxes, what is to say these BETTER THAN ALL tax authorities wont think, "Well, maybe we need to audit and check out more people in the lawn care business." Whether you are legitimate or not, I DON'T think you want the IRS auditing you and checking to see if you are dotting ALL of your Is and crossing ALL of your Ts. I personally have never been auditied and I do all my own book keeping and send my end results to an accountant for $100 and he reviews them and makes sure they are correct and I DON'T want to go through an IRS audit!!! Because odds are they WILL find something wrong and you can bet it WILL NOT be in your favor!!

So whether right or wrong to turn anybody in for not paying taxes in order to put them out of business, think if it may in some way back fire on #1 (YOU).

I had a man tell me the IRS got onto his son for not paying taxes, he didn't have anything, and he hid from the IRS. They kept harrassing the guys father till his father told him he was doing wrong and told him to go down and talk to the IRS. The three of them sat down in an IRS agents office and discussed the son owing something like 30grand in back taxes and the son told them he didn't have the money and didn't know when he could get the money up. The agent told them that if he didn't have the money and was still working and supporting his family that they would wipe his slate clean and for him to pay his taxes like he should in the future or he would go to jail.

So who's to say they would even do anything to this individual?

His day will come, you just watch! Why did his best man come to work for you?? Does his other help take care of his expensive equipment??

Sounds good anyway doesn't it! Be optimistic!

[Alan]

If you have never kept cash and not reported it then maybe you could justify your self righteous attitude. Other than that his not paying taxes has NO bearing on how you operate. Stop blaming others for your own shortcomings, if you can't compete get into another line of work. In the meantime have some cheese to go with that whine.

[MikeGA]

Took me a minute, but I was writing my post before yours was posted LoneStar, We are thinking on the same line.

[LoneStarLawn]

Yeah ...LOL... Yours was alot longer than mine...

[awm]

Sorry EGGY BUT I AGREE WITH HOMER AND THE REST
See somebody molesting a child turn them in and more.
Suspect someone of being able to under bid you because he might not pay all his taxes,and turning there name in.
Lets see similar stuff use to happen in SOVIET UNION ALL THE TIME.It became a way of life so Ive heard.That what you want.

[dmk395]

What goes around comes around. If you know of some bad cheaters I would just leave them alone, and eventually it will catch up to them. Being a snitch is not the way, plus who knows maybe the guy really isnt a cheat, and his former employee is just vindictive.

[lsylvain]

I don't have the # on me but they will give it to you if you call 1-800-tax-1040. Just ask for the tax freud hotline.

[ShortCuts]

Mike I think you are right on this one. THis is a small town!(10k winter 30k summer) and word gets around fast. I don't think i would have the balls to turn this guy in. He is a real low life scumbag. who knows what he would do. His best guy works for me now because I had a heart to heart with him at the bar one night and convinced him why working for me was better for him.(we have been friends for awhile) I think the fact that he would get to sit on a new walker EFI all day pretty much sold him, and the fact i paid $1.50 hour more. The guy he use to work for runs 3 bunton wb's I think. THe fact that his best and only really expirenced worker ditched him really pissed him off. SO he has been targeting our lawns. since mid august he has lowballed 3 of our lawns. Every time we drive by he flips us the bird. I just laugh, smile and wave. But i can't afford to compete with his lowball prices. Just for example...he is now cutting a lawn for $30 that we cut for $43. god only knows how many more we will lose to this guy..if he keeps it up he is gonna lowball himself right out of the business. Oh well i'll stop my b$$$$ing...but can't you see why this guy to go down?

[DaveinVa]

holy cow - talk about a hot topic........ In my business I see tax evaders all the time. Seems like these guys are like the everready bunny - they just keep going and going - and does it tick me off every time I stroke a check for my taxes - you bet it does - but rather than calling the IRS - I have chosen to go this route - and it has worked quite well..... When I meet with my prospective customer - I make certain that somewhere within my proposal - it's made it very clear that we are a legitimate business - just as they themselves are - and as such - we pay for our appropriate licenses, permits, insurance coverages and that we pay our taxes. I also remind them that as a business - if they conduct business with anyone who does not conform to IRS regulations, that they themselves may become the subject of some IRS review. As such - if someone willfully does not pay their taxes - does it seem far fetched that these same folks - will try any trick in the book to escape trouble once they are caught, i.e., - trying to claim that the ones who hired them to do the work are liable for the taxes......and that they were "merely" an employee. As all of you know - there are very keen guidelines which must be followed in order that "independent contractor vs employee" lines aren't crossed. In the janitorial business this has gotten us the job many many times....perhaps it will work in the lawn care business as well.
Just a few thoughts.......
Dave

[1stclasslawns]

I had a friend of mine a couple of years ago turn in his ex-wifes new boy friend, he did landscape and paid no taxes.
GUESS who got audited first. Thats right my buddy the exes new bo, never heard a word about it.

somthin to think about?

Jim

[Charles]

"Snitch?" What are we in prison now? If you saw somone being raped, robbed or murdered would you report it? Some of you talk about the government like it is an enemy or from another planet or that government spending doesnt help us all at some point in our lives. This is OUR government! The person who doesnt pay taxes is Stealing from you and I. Where do you thing medicare, social security, medicaid, hyway monies, Lawn enforcement, military, space program, grants to the states etc come from? Our tax dollars and people who dont pay their taxes are robbing us. You dont tell on someone who is robbing you? What a sucker if you dont! Is the money fro your retirement going to be their if everyone stops paying their taxes? Is medicare going to be there for you when you retire and get sick? Sure government waste money but the doesnt mean all spending is wasteful. Police like the IRS cant be everywhere and they need good citizens to help them find the crooks. Are you a good citizens? Even Jesus Christ said "render unto ceaser what is ceasers".

[Michael Fronczak]

This is a little off topic, but same idea, and I agree with turning the guy in, I'll explain. When we do pesticide application work, it takes my employee as long to do the paperwork/posting as it does me to do the application work, and no he's not slacking. Each application takes us two days to complete, we do five applications. That is ten days a year I am paying my employee for that a scrub or lowballer is not doing. If you do the math 10 days at roughly $ 100 each day, by the time you figure in insurance, taxes ect. thats $ 1000.00 a season I'm paying out. Not for nothing guys, thats two truck payments or a downpayment on a new mower, or several new 2-cycle pieces. Same idea with insurance, my commercial auto policy is over $ 3,000/yr.
Basiclly what I am saying is I play by the rules, They should to, when these guys don't it hurts all of us. It hurts us not only in our pockets, but our image.

[jdseven]

I heard that the IRS checks out the people who turn in people that try to avoid taxes. So if you have not cheated on your taxes you should be ok.

[lawrence stone]

Charles you seam to have no clue of history. Our founding fathers stated in the Constitution (you have read the constitution right?) wrote that the state will impose no income tax on the people. It took a Constitutional change by a corrupt congress and 2/3 of our greedy states to circumvent our founding fathers.

I suggest you try listening to the libertarian point of view at http://www.boortz.com/ and click on LISTEN TO BOORTZ!!

http://www.dxmarket.com/worldnetdaily/products/B0095.html

The national media outlets have you completely brainwashed much like the Nazi party in Germany in the 1930's and 1940's.


[Edited by lawrence stone on 03-20-2001 at 11:20 AM]

[eggy]

Guys, I didnt mean to cause such a stir!..Yes it would be nice if everyone is on the same playing feild but we are not.....This industry is open to all types and the very very low start up costs make it even more attractive....So this is something we will deal with forever...maybe I was just letting a little steam out who knows....but lets not start bashing each other.....have fun...eggy

[Charles]

Lawrence, as our populace became more humane and civilized of course a pooling of the money plan had to come into play. A way to ease the plight of the elderly, the sick and build an infrastucture etc. The republicans believe in taxing too they just believe in spending it differently. The smaller poorer states could not handle the influx of our mobile society without a helping hand from the feds. When you hit 65 you can give up your medicare and give it to me if you want.

[geogunn]

I'm not really interested in the merits of being a tax snitch or a tax evader either.

but as a taxpayer that gets audited every year, I can say that if the accused has paid his taxes he has nothing to fear except for losing around 10% of what they say he owes. and they will make up stuff to get that 10%. it makes the tax agent look good 'cause they got a mark in the "collected column" of the auditor's peformance evaluation. been there and done that many times.

just pay your taxes, do what ou are supposed to do and you got no real problems. of course, minus that 10%.

GEO

[lbmd1]

I have to agree with Michael from Rochester. You pesticide guys are the first to say what a priviledge it is to get and maintain a license, and how you preach to others about not applying chems without a license or you'll turn them in because they are not licensed. Knowing the law, breaking it and receiving fines keeps one from appling pesticides without a license. Why isn't it the same thing when others are paying taxes, professional fees, workman's comp, etc.. , while another guy in town isn't but at the same time undercutting you and buying new equipment with cash that he's not paying the IRS with. Lucky for me, I don't have that problem but if I did, I might make an anoynomous call. Fair competition is one thing, cheating is another.


Mike

[lee b]

Stone seems to be one of the precious few who knows their history. The federal government was only given the right to collect taxes in the form of tariffs. The brave men who risked everything to create this country have been repudiated time and again by politians who buy votes with OUR money. Social programs are not for the poor or elderly, they were put in place to guarantee the retention of political power. Any benefits ordinary people receive is secondary to this goal. Because of human nature {wanting something for nothing} the majority of people will vote for whomever promises to give them the most freebies. This is why Democrats controlled Congress for 40 years, and the reason wel-fare got totally out of hand and politians were loath to do anything about it. I pay my taxes, but I well understand why some do not. What I pay {and you too} is squandered. No country has ever taxed itself into prosperity. 'nuff said

[lawrence stone]

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.


Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

--------------------------------------------------------
Stone's comment:

Any laws that are not outline above that have been passed by the imperial federal government are illegal and should
be ignored.

[Edited by lawrence stone on 03-20-2001 at 10:29 PM]

[lawrence stone]

FOR YEARS the IRS has ruled the American people in a manner equal only to the Soviet KGB. FEAR and BLUFF and deception have been the IRS's major weapons. Americans have been lead to believe that they "owe" an income tax on their earnings; that it is their "patriotic duty to pay it", and that there is no alternative to the IRS's abuse. Nothing could be further from the TRUTH.

FEAR can only prevail when victims are ignorant of the facts. The Bible teaches us that God's people perish for lack of knowledge. Therefore, consider the following:

1) Our Founding Fathers created a constitutional REPUBLIC as our form of government. The Constitution gives the federal/national government LIMITED powers. All powers not delegated to the United States, are reserved to the States respectively or to the People. The Union was created to be the servant of the People! The United States Constitution is the Supreme Law of the land. (Article VI, Clause 2)

2) The Constitution gives the Congress the power to lay and collect taxes to pay the debts of the government, provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States, subject to the following rules, pertaining to the only two classifications of taxes permitted by the Constitution: Direct Taxes, which are subject to the rule of apportionment (to the states for collection), and Indirect Taxes - imposts, duties and excises, subject to the rule of uniformity.

3) The government is NOT ALLOWED, by either one of the two classifications, TO TAX DIRECTLY citizens or permanent resident aliens of the United States, in the United States. The intent of the founders was to keep the government the servant of the People, and to prevent it from becoming the master. (Article I, Section2, Clause 3)

4) The census is taken every ten years to determine the number of representatives to be allotted to each state and the amount of a direct tax that may be apportioned to each state determined by the percentage its number of representatives bears to the total membership in the House of Representatives. (Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 and Article I, Section 9, Clause 4)

5) It was established in the Constitutional convention of 1787 that the Supreme Court of the United States would have the power of "judicial review", i.e., the power to declare laws passed by the United States Congress to be null and void if such a law or laws were in violation of the Constitution, to be determined from the original intent as found in Madison's Notes recorded during the Convention, the Federalist Papers, and the ratifying conventions found in Elliott's Debates.

6) Due to the characteristics of the second classification of taxation authorized in the Constitution, the Supreme Court called it an Indirect Tax, and it is divided into three distinct categories of taxes: IMPOSTS, DUTIES and EXCISES. These taxes were intended to provide for the operating expense of the government of the United States.

7) Duties and Imposts are taxes laid by the government on things imported into the country from abroad, and are paid at the ports of entry.

8) The Supreme Court says that "EXCISES are:... taxes laid upon the manufacture, sale and consumption of commodities within the country, upon licenses to pursue certain occupations and upon corporate privileges" (See Flint v. Stone Tracy Co. 220 US 107 (1911))

9) In 1862, Congress pased an Act (law) to create an "Income Duty" to help pay for the war between the states. A duty is an indirect tax which the federal government cannot impose on citizens or residents of a state having sources of income within a State of the Union.

10) Congress passed an Act in 1894 to impose a tax on the incomes of citizens and resident aliens of the United States. The constitutionality of the Act was challenged in 1895 and the Supreme Court said the law was UNCONSTITUTIONAL BECAUSE IT WAS A DIRECT TAX THAT WAS NOT APPORTIONED as the Constitution required. (See Pollock v. Farmer's Loan & Trust Co., 157 US 429 (1895))

11) In 1909 Congress passed the 16th Amendment to the Constitution that was allegedly ratified by 3/4 of the states; it is known as the "Income Tax Amendment".

12) Some officials within the IRS, along with professors, politicians, teachers and some judges have said, and are saying, that the 16th Amendment changed the Constitution to allow a direct tax without apportionment.

13) The above persons are NOT EMPOWERED to interpret the meaning of the United States Constitution! As stated above (Fact 5), this power is granted by the Constitution to the Supreme Court, but is limited to original intent. The supreme Court is NOT EMPOWERED to function as a "social engineer", to amend or alter the Constitution as they have been doing. A change or "amendment" can only be lawfully done according to the provisions of Article V of that document.

14) The U.S. Supreme Court said in 1916 that the 16th Amendment DID NOT change the Constitution because of the fact that Article I, Section 2, Clause 3, and Article I, Section 9, Clause 4, were not repealed or altered; the U.S. Constitution cannot conflict with itself. The Court also said that the 16th Amendment MERELY PREVENTED THE INCOME DUTY FROM BEING TAKEN OUT OF THE CATEGORY OF INDIRECT TAXATION. (Brushaber v. Union Pacific R.R. CO. 240 US 1 (pg. 16) (1916))

15) After the Supreme Court decision, the office of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue issued Treasury Decision 2313, ([Order] dated March 21, 1916; Vol 18 January-December, 1916, page 53). It states in part:"....it is hereby held that income accruing to nonresident aliens in the form of interest from the bonds and dividends on the stock of domestic corporations is subject to the income tax imposed by the Act of October 3, 1913."

16) In another Supreme Court decision in 1916, the Court, in CLEAR LANGUAGE, settled the application of the 16th amendment: by the previous ruling (Brushaber) it was settled that the provisions of the 16th Amendment CONFERRED NO NEW POWER OF TAXATION but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary (full) power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation to which it inherently belonged....(Stanton v. Baltic Mining Co., 249 US 112 (1916))

17) The United States Constitution gives the national government the exclusive authority to handle foreign affairs. Congress has the power to pass laws concerning the direct or indirect taxation of foreigners doing business in the Unites States of America. It has possessed this power from the beginning, needing no amendment (change) to the U.S. Constitution to authorize the exercise of it.

18) The DIRECT classification of taxation was intended for use when unforesen expenses or emergencies arise. Congress, needing funds to meet the emergency, can borrow money on the credit of the United States (Article I, Section 8 Clause 2). The founding fathers intended that the budget of the United States be balanced and a deficit be paid off quickly and in an orderly fashion, through a DIRECT tax. The tax bill is given to the Senate of the Union. The bill is "apportioned" by the number of representatives of each State in Congress; therefore, each State is billed its apportioned share of the Direct tax equal to the number of votes its Representatives could employ to pass the tax. How the states raise the money to pay the bill is not a federal concern. (Article I, Section 2, Clause 3)

19) In the Brushaber and Stanton cases, the Supreme Court said the 16th Amendment did not change income taxes to another classification. So, if the income tax is an indirect excise, then how is it applied and collected ? According to the Supreme Court: "Excises are taxes laid upon the manufacture, sale and consumption of commodities within the country, upon licenses to pursue certain occupations and upon corporate privileges; the requirement to pay such tax involves the exercise of the privilege and if business is not done in the manner described no tax is payable......it is the privilege which is the subject of the tax and not the mere buying, selling or handling of goods."

QUESTION: If all RIGHTS come from God (citizens of the States retained all RIGHTS except those surrendered as enumerated in the Constitution) and PRIVILEGES are granted by government AFTER APPLICATION FOR PRIVILEGE IS MADE BY THE CITIZEN,, then WHAT IS THE PRIVILEGE THAT THE INCOME TAX IS APPLIED AGAINST ?

ANSWER: As established in the Constitution, the federal government cannot directly tax a citizen living within the States of the Union. Citizens possess RIGHTS; these RIGHTS cannot be converted to privileges by the government. The only individuals who would not have these rights and be liable to regulation by government are NONRESIDENT ALIENS doing business and working within the United States or receiving domestic source profits from investment instruments in America, United States citizens working in a foreign country and taxable under TREATIES between the two governments.

20) WITHHOLDING AGENTS withhold income taxes. The only section in the Internal Revenue Code that defines this authority is section 7701(a)(16).

21) Withholding of money for income tax purposes, according to section 7701(a)(16), is only authorized under sections 1441 - Nonresident aliens, 1442 - Foreign Corporations, 1443 - Foreign Tax Exempt Organizations, and 1461- Withholding Agents' Liability for Withheld Tax.

22) Internal Revenue Manual Chapter 1100, Organization and Staffing, section 1132.75 states: "TheCriminal Investigative Division enforces the criminal statutes applicable to income, estate, gift, employment, and excise tax laws involving United States citizens RESIDING IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES and nonresident aliens subject to Federal income tax filing requirements..."(empphasis added)

23) The implementation of IRS Tresury Regulation 26 CFR 1.1441-5 is explained in Publication 515 on page 2: "If an individual gives you a written statement, in duplicate, stating that he or she is a citizen or resident of the United States, and you do not know otherwise, you may accept this statement and are RELEIVED OF THE DUTY OF WITHHOLDING TAX."

24) The ONLY way a U.S. citizen or permanent resident alien , living and working in a State of the Union can have taxes deducted from their pay, is by voluntarily making an application (Form SS-5) to obtain a social security number, and then entering that number on an IRS Form W-4 - Employee's Withholding Allowance Certificate, and signing it to permit witholding of "Employment Taxes". That is why the IRS pressures children to apply for social security numbers at an early age, and why citizens are pressured to "get used" to using the number, and employers are pressured to obtain the voluntary execution of a Form W-4 immediately from all those being hired. However, no federal law or regulation REQUIRES workers to have a social security number, or to sign a W-4 to qualify for, obtain, or retain a job..

25) Karl Marx wrote in his Communist Manifesto, ten planks needed to create a communist state. The second plank is:" A HEAVY PROGRESSIVE OR GRADUATED INCOME TAX"

26) The attorney who successfully challenged the Income Tax Act of 1894, Joseph H. Choate, recognized the communist hand in the shadows. He told the United States Supreme Court: "The Act of Congress which we are impugning (challenging as false) before you is communistic in its purposes and tendencies, and is defended here upon principles as communistic, socialistic - what shall I call them - populistic as ever have been addressed to any political assembly in the world."

27) The Supreme Court agreed; and Justice Field wrote the Court's opinion, concluding with these prophetic words: "Here I close my opinion. I could not say less in view of questions of such gravity that go down to the very foundations of the government. If the provisions of the Constitution can be set aside by an Act of Congress, where is the course of usurpation to end? The present assault upon capital is but the beginning. It will be but the stepping-stone to others, larger and more sweeping, till our political contests will become a war of the poor against the rich; a war growing in intensity and bitternes."

28) Internal Revenue Code Section 6654(e)(2)(C) states: ....no liability....if the individual was a citizen or resident alien of the United States throughout the preceding taxable year.

The IRS contends the success of the self-assessment system depends upon VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE -- EVIDENTLY SO !

[Charles]

Why are alot of you complaining about our tax system? Just consider yourselves lucky to live in the richest most powerful country in the world. I have a neighbor who makes regular trips to China and he is tells me how poor the majority of the people there are. No chance in hell they will have an opportunity to make as much money as we do. Alot of them live in squaler. Saw on the news the other day where a good many russians are freezing to death. They are having to scrape the ice off there walls inside their homes. Whole families are sleeping in the same bed just to keep warm. Africans are dieing of aids of epedimic proportions and most of them live in squaller. Our system of government is the envy of the world. Flaws and all it still is the best there is. We double and triple any other system of government in economic output and standard of living. So you baulk at paying a portion of your income for the good of the entire country that you are fortunate to even live in? Our system of government works fine overall the way it is and has been for many years. I know there was not a tax in the beginning. But things always evolve and change.
But Congress keep cuttng the IRS's budget and they cant afford to hire new agents. This is where the problem is coming in. The tax laws are being enforced unevenly and some are slipping through the cracks. Legit businesses are having to unfairly compete with illegit businesses and the playing field is not level. If people are going to have to pay their share of taxes then everyone should have to pay their share. But congress is just [playing to their constituients and not doing what is good for the country as usual

[lee b]

Charles, did you comprehend what Stone was saying? Everyone is voluntarily paying an ILLEGAL tax. Sure we live in a great country, but it was even better BEFORE income taxes were unfairly imposed.The constitution is the bedrock of our freedom and has been circumvented. Our individual rights are steadily being stripped away and unknowing or uncaring people stand idily by and applaud it as progress. People are more concerned about Social Security being there when they retire, than about much more important ideals i.e. FREEDOM, SELF-DETERMINATION, the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS without interference from over-bearing government regulation. Once a right is taken from us by government it is almost never ever returned. Our children will never have the freedom that we have enjoyed and their children will be imposed upon even more. How much taxes do we pay or freedoms lost, before an all-powerful government is satisfied? Are you happy knowing that in your childrens lifetime they will be paying about 80% in taxes, so that someone else can escape the responsibility for taking care of theirselves?

[Mowin4cash]

Originally posted by Charles
"Snitch?" What are we in prison now? If you saw somone being raped, robbed or murdered would you report it? Some of you talk about the government like it is an enemy or from another planet or that government spending doesnt help us all at some point in our lives. This is OUR government! The person who doesnt pay taxes is Stealing from you and I. Where do you thing medicare, social security, medicaid, hyway monies, Lawn enforcement, military, space program, grants to the states etc come from? Our tax dollars and people who dont pay their taxes are robbing us. You dont tell on someone who is robbing you? What a sucker if you dont! Is the money fro your retirement going to be their if everyone stops paying their taxes? Is medicare going to be there for you when you retire and get sick? Sure government waste money but the doesnt mean all spending is wasteful. Police like the IRS cant be everywhere and they need good citizens to help them find the crooks. Are you a good citizens? Even Jesus Christ said "render unto ceaser what is ceasers".


If you see someone being raped, robbed, or murdered, don't just "report" them, do something about it. Like put a .45 to the back of thier head. I bet it'll work.
It's supposed to be OUR government. But tell that to a liberal. Remember thier motto, "We are here to help you because you are too stupid to help yourselves".
What about the government "stealing" our money to pay for someone elses "entitlement". My grandfather told me that folks did just fine "way back when" when there was no Medicare and Social Security. I don't want their social programs, if I don't take care of myself now, oh well, let me starve later! Let them take care of highways and defense, let us take care of the rest.
Yes Jesus said "render unto ceasar what is ceasars" but I don't think he meant "render to the government whatever thier little heart desires." What about the old saying "If 10% is good enough for Jesus, why isn't it good enough for the government?"

[Charles]

I am all for cutting the tax rate to a reasonable level. But not cutting it out completely. You guys seem to forget how our system works. People, local cities, states, petition their congressman for there wants and needs and congressman try to get it for them. People want--government tries to provide. If you are going to cut taxes you are going to have to stop wanting so much. Our military has become some type of job service. New weapons we dont even need create new jobs in particular states etc. You guy seem to be saying "well people dont really need the government handout yada yada yada. Well apparently the rest of the United states hasnt heard that DUH. The city I live in is always trying to get federal grants and federal jobs. Senior citizens are always clamering for their social security and medicare. Why? because they cannot afford health insurance and they sure as hell are too old to work. Railing the the tax system is illegal is just beating a dead horse and a waste of time-- cause it aint going to change in out life time-- get it?! tell the IRS agent who comes to audit you maybe one day that it is illegal and you are just not going to pay and have fun getting banged in prison pretty boy

[lee b]

Charles, most people who are dependent on social security were suckered in by propaganda. The government promised that if you were good and paid your taxes you didn't need to save any money, spend it all now and we'll take care of you later. That social security tax money was to be put in a trust fund to accumilate unmolested until you needed it. Guess what? An all-wise all-knowing government couldn't stand seeing all that money, which DID NOT EVER belong to them, just sit there. By the original rules they couldn't touch it, so they changed the rules to suit theirselves. The money the elderly draw now is not the money they paid in, it's mine. Where is the garuntee that they will not change the rules again, so that when I need it, it'll be there. Why should anyone patronize a system who steals your money and pays you back by stealing someone else's. I do not begrudge the elderly their social security checks, it's not their fault that they were lied to. Don't depend on government to take care of you, it's your responibility to look after yourself.

[lawrence stone]

http://www.laughingmatters.com/audio/computer_piracy.ram

[Eric Green]

I'm a little late posting to the subject,but take a look at it from this angle, the whole purpose of a tax advisor is to help us maximize(sp) write offs which basically means keep your money in your pocket, so you will have something for you and your family. That's why we are self employed. I say let him do his thing... if he continues to run illegit business it will be his arse in the end... everyone that plays the game plays it differently, where I come from there is a saying " Don't hate the player, hate the game!!"

Eric

[lawrence stone]

GOD & THE FBI

MAMA'S MAKING MIMEOS
PETE'S ON THE STEREO
SINGING 'BOUT FREEDOM
BUGS IN THE BEDROOM
BIG INVESTIGATION
BE PATIENT
BET YOU DIDN'T KNOW
YOU WERE A DANGER TO THE NATION
SEARCH AND SEIZURE
BUY YOURSELF A LAWYER
WE KNOW YOU'RE A MEMBER
SAW YOU UNDER COVER
ARE YOU HIDING EVIDENCE
NONE OF THIS MAKES ANY SENSE

THEY CALLED THE FBI
I HAD TO DISAPPEAR
CALLED THE G-MEN, T-MEN, SEE YOU AT THE SCENE MEN
TOLD 'EM I WAS HIDING HERE
THEY COULD FINGERPRINT MY HEART
THEY'D TEAR MY WORLD APART
'CAUSE AIN'T NO PLACE FOR A FACE TO HIDE
FROM GOD AND THE FBI

COMMIES, PINKOS
REDS AT THE WINDOWS
FOREIGN AGITATORS
RUNNING ELEVATORS
J. EDGAR HOOVER IN A PINK TUTU
INVESTIGATING ANYONE WHO THINKS LIKE YOU
WELCOME TO THE FIFTIES
YOU LOOK A LITTLE SHIFTY


STAY FLAT, DON'T RAT
WHAT'S A PROLETARIAT
STALIN WAS A DEMOCRAT
WASHINGTON IS WHERE IT'S AT
EVERY POLITICIAN
IS A SEWER OF AMBITION
HIDE ME, HIDE YOU
BETTER HIDE THE BABY TOO
WE DEMAND AN INTERVIEW
HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN A JEW
WE CAN MAKE YOU TESTIFY
FREEDOM IS NO ALIBI

[Greenkeepers]

Boy some of you guys have done your research extremely well.

We must all remember what goes around comes around. I'm not saying that it is right or that I would do it but the IRS has much bigger worries and tax matters than someone who may have a $2000 tax liability at the end of the year. OK he GROSSED 100k how much at the end of the year does he have as Income?? Some of you guys need to learn the difference between Gross and Net... He could Gross 1,000,000 and still show a loss for tax purposes this year. Hmmmm then he wouldn't have to "pay" taxes now would he (other than payroll related).

Larry also hit the nail on the head... Taxes are voluntary I know of people who havn't paid taxes and won cases in Federal court.. I'm not sugguesting that it is the way to go or I would do it but it is out there.......

Find all the facts before you make assumptions...

[Charles]

i dont really give a rats azz whether any of you pay taxes. Greenskeeper, Lawrence and the rest who believe the tax laws are volentary. Call the IRS monday and tell them that you are not going to pay taxes anymore or havent been paying taxes and then report back to us on how that went and what they said. Since you are just "volanteering" your tax money anyway .Lawrence, great leader of the scrubs, I guess we can infer from your replys to this thread that you do not pay taxes on your income, right?

[thelawnguy]

Greenkeeper,

The IRS will go after those least able to defend themselves. Joe Blow will just ante up while XYZ Corp will hire lawyers up the wazoo to defend them.

Mr Stone,

Nice plagiarism from Irving Schiff (sp?). Unfortunately the voluntary theory isnt held by the court system. If you have any assets at all I wouldnt recommend that argument in any US court. Mr Schiff, while using that argument which he has published in his books, has served five years jail time, has had assets seized and liens placed on his property, etc.

Amendments to the Constitution, according to the same document, supercede the original and in effect make the affected part of the original null and void.

Read the whole document.

Besides, if we didnt pay income tax, who would pay Guidos salary?

[bobbygedd]

damm, u guys are alright, its 1 am and im having a great time reading this stuff.i do believe in minding your own business on this matter. the only thing that does bother me is, its 1 am, and i just got in from my second job, in five hours ill be waking up to do do cleanups. i pay taxes on both of my incomes, dont seem fair that while most of u are drinking beer and wathching t.v., i am working a second job and paying alot more in taxes. if the price for living in this great country is to pay taxes, thats fine by me. but if taxes are say $15000 a year, then they should be that same amount for everyone, y does a guy like me pay $15000, and the next guy only $10000? cus im more ambitious, and a harder worker? seems more like a fine than a tax. and as for u snitches, as long as u r perfect(i only heard of one guy who was) do as u will, i prefer to mind my own business. BOB

[exco]

I was reading this thread and I had only one thought, I just got robbed.

I pay my taxes, why, because it is the law. I 'm not in business to rob any one, not even the government. As much as I would like to, I just can't.

If this guy, or any one else out there isn't paying taxes they are breaking the law, and should be reported.

Don't get me wrong I think taxes are way to high, and I could spend that money better than the government can. But as my 4 year old says, " rules is rules"!

If you got the goods on the guy, nail him.

Anybody that tells you to let a crime "slide" , or won't turn someone else in for fear of an audit, has the balls of a door mat. Walked on, kicked into place, and left out in the cold.

[awm]

i would agree it is frustrating too see people working so cheap you know whats not happening. i can see mabe saying something to the individual. but dont report everything to big brother. i live in the country and when city folk move here,
they always come in thinking they can call and report there neighbors cow ,dog ,or kid. it dont take long an they straiten out or move on.just dont work that way.not very good anyway.

[LoneStarLawn]

You need to read this thread very clearly...

Reporting non-paying tax offenders is not the same as reporting another crime. When you report it they will ask information about you. Why do they do that? Because you will be audited in the next few years. Don't believe it try it.

[lee b]

This is a classic thread, glad somebody dug it up. LoneStar makes a very good point, the reason most pay their taxes is fear of punishment and the reason most of the self-proclaimed snitches aren't gonna turn anyone in is the fear of an audit that they will bring on theirselves.

[dhicks]

I'm not a liberal by any means. But if someone is doing something immoral, unethical or illegal do we not have any responsibity? To sit and do nothing makes us just as guilty and drags us down to the same level as those that do not pay.

Why sould I pay taxes to the Govt and some others believe they are above the law and do not have to pay. Are tax cheats better than those that pay their fair share?

It does not matter to me whether is rape, child abuse or tax cheats. I'd have no problem reporting them to the IRS or any other authority. The big question is: How do you know (with proof) they are tax cheats?

BTW: I have no problem with being IRS audited either because we are 100% up and up.

[gogetter]

Originally posted by ron
Well Let's se Stone How about a rapist who didn't comitt the crime but wants to take the rap to cover for his friend or a family member.

I know we're getting off topic, but I gotta say..... if I had a friend or family member who commited rape, not only would I NOT cover for him, I'd probably turn them in. And they'd no longer be considered friend or family to me!

[hubb]

I pay my taxes just like most people, but I don't think we should all go off half cocked and start snitching on everbody we see that we think don't pay. I have people pass me on the highway when I'm doing the speed limit and I know they are going way over the speed limit but I dont get on my cell phone and call the cops. There are differing degrees of crimes. This isn't all black and white. There is alot of gray area here. If this scrub is robbing you and you think this is the only way to retaliate then so be it. But I think you have the right idea to go after his best workers. That will hurt him more than being audited. If he has a bunch of $h*t heads working for him then he will probably lose his customers fast.

As for all of those who seem to hate the government of this country........MOVE!
I may not agree with alot of the decisions made by the narrow minded fools who run this country, but I would rather be here where our say is still worth a little something. I think most people who cant see any good come out of our government are just as narrow minded as some of those whom they criticize. We must look at the big picture. Which when compared with all the other places my ancestors could've ended up I'm damn glad the boat ended up here. The greatest nation in the world. IMHO

[skipwatson]

Well said, Hubb, well said.

[bobbygedd]

i say let he who is without sin, cast........well u get it right? quit whining for gods sake. sticking $30 in yur pocket for a lawn cut is a far cry from rape or murder. truck a writeoff? NEVER used it for personal use? fishing, hunting, etc.? liar!that case of oil, u didnt use ANY of it to change the oil in yur wifes car? liar! stealing $5 or $10 is STILL stealing! is this lawnsite, or whine/cry site?

[Eng Mwr Guy]

Business is similar to war.

Is it ethical to turn someone in not paying taxes...yes.

Could it help your business if they are out of business....yes.

Is it a business decision to report them....yes.

Just another viewpoint.

Barry

[bubble boy]

good post hubb, except the last part, eh??:D

anyway, these scrubs that operate under the table aren't just pocketing $30, or mileage write offs, or oil, they are scamming on everything. whereas the rest of us may scam one or two thousand dollars worth a year, these guys scam tens of thousands.

if we reported them and they are not cheating, they won't be punished. if they are cheating and we report them, well then sucks to be them.

i dont consider what im saying as whining, although i guess we do tend to dwell on this topic here on lawnsite.