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View Full Version : 60" w/b vs. 60" ztr


stevesmowing
10-04-2005, 10:23 PM
I have a 60" super z and a 48" w/b. It takes about 10 minutes on the ztr to mow my lawn and 13 on the belt drive w/b with a sulky. It seems like unless its a big open area a 60" hydro w/b could cut more grass faster. Can you turn like a ferris 61" hydro dual drive or hustler 54" w/b or 60" exmark turf tracer around on a dime like you can a belt drive w/b w/o tearing up the grass. With my 48" I can just slow way down/almost stop the inside wheel and keep the outside still going full speed. What do other people think? I might be looking at adding another w/b to the fleet next year.

lawnmaniac883
10-04-2005, 10:25 PM
Yes, a w/b may be a decent idea but on larger props, you will get fatigued a little easier.

Runner
10-04-2005, 10:59 PM
There are definitely cases where a wb will cut faster than a Z. With a wb, you can glide around trees and objects in one fluid motion. You can do turn arounds at the ends of your rows (provided you have two borderlines) in one fluid motion, too. I would LOVE to have a 60" hydro wb to compliment my Z.

TMlawncare
10-04-2005, 11:16 PM
I have both a 60" lc lazer z and a 60" turf tracer wb. The walk behind is incredible. Our turf tracer has the striping roller on it and the cut is outstanding. Operating this mower is very easy. It is actually smoother then our 48" scag hydro walkbehind. When comparing the 60" ztr and wb, the walk behind is much quicker and easier to manuever on the smaller sites, thus extremely productive. On the bigger sites even with the sulky attached the ztr still rules. Can't make up for all that speed. The greatest thing about having to 60" machines is two people can mow at the same time w/o messing up the stripes on the property. When the two machines are a wb and a ztr there isn't to many areas on a property you can't tackle.

TMlawncare
10-04-2005, 11:22 PM
I have both a 60" lc lazer z and a 60" turf tracer wb. The walk behind is incredible. Our turf tracer has the striping roller on it and the cut is outstanding. Operating this mower is very easy. It is actually smoother then our 48" scag hydro walkbehind. When comparing the 60" ztr and wb, the walk behind is much quicker and easier to manuever on the smaller sites, thus extremely productive. On the bigger sites even with the sulky attached the ztr still rules. Can't make up for all that speed. The greatest thing about having to 60" machines is two people can mow at the same time w/o messing up the stripes on the property. When the two machines are a wb and a ztr there isn't to many areas on a property you can't tackle.

stevesmowing
10-04-2005, 11:23 PM
Does the speed of the turf tracer seem slow? It seems like its comming in about 2mph under other hydros out there. How many hours are on yours and how is it holding up? What engine?

WoodBrothersLC
10-05-2005, 12:38 AM
Just get a stander. You can turn faster than other ZTR's, and you can go a heck of a lot faster than a walk behind. Hills aren't a problem once you learn to shift your weight.

-Mark Wood

TMlawncare
10-05-2005, 12:43 AM
Does the speed of the turf tracer seem slow? It seems like its comming in about 2mph under other hydros out there. How many hours are on yours and how is it holding up? What engine?
My 60" turf tracer was purchased new last spring. It now has around 430hrs on it. To date absolutely zero problems. Put gas in it, use it, no need to even worry about it thats how reliable this machine has been. It has a 23hp Kawasaki engine on it which has to be one of the quitest, smoothest, most fuel efficient engines ever made. Of all the machines I have owned, this is really one of my favorites.
As far as speed goes, the book says it will go 6.5mph, on my sulkey that is just hauling. When walking behind it no one can walk 6.5mph. I'm kind of a speed freak but on this machine there really isn't a need for more speed. Even on the sulkies none of my employees or myself ever have craved for more speed.

stevesmowing
10-05-2005, 08:04 AM
what did you pay for your truf tracer? Does it have pistol grip or ecs?

John Gamba
10-05-2005, 08:19 AM
Exmark needs to up the speed to 8.5MPH. they need to make the opc's more user friendly, Larger horse power and put the new titan deck on it.

I have had accounts where the TT was faster then a Lazer and walk(not at the same time). You have alot less trimming and big Steep hills are no problem. They cost less, weigh less and turn faster. they dont rut like riders and when you take a 750 Pound stander and stand on it, it can now weigh up-wards to 950 Pounds :cry: . So all and all, the walks are better for cutting then anything else so far.

John

Envy Lawn Service
10-06-2005, 02:33 AM
With my terrain, I sure wish I had the health some of you guys do.
I'd sure be super tempted because as rough as it can be here, the drop in speed on a wb/sulky is almost moot...

I would however still be very concerned about the long term wear and tear on the body.
That's gotta be rough on the joints and very very hard on the wrists & hands.

MTR
10-06-2005, 02:54 AM
Exmark needs to up the speed to 8.5MPH. they need to make the opc's more user friendly, Larger horse power and put the new titan deck on it.

I have had accounts where the TT was faster then a Lazer and walk(not at the same time). You have alot less trimming and big Steep hills are no problem. They cost less, weigh less and turn faster. they dont rut like riders and when you take a 750 Pound stander and stand on it, it can now weigh up-wards to 950 Pounds :cry: . So all and all, the walks are better for cutting then anything else so far.

John

Good point on eXmark walk, they are too slow...even new Gravely walk is 8+mph. It is true that walks still better cutting than anyother but I would not use it as your lifeline very long, it will always take 2nd spot after the Z. You need to have both Z and WB to be able to cut anything you want..like Z #1, WB #2.
Fatigue is what is the MAJOR problem for anyone using wb as primary mower.

topsites
10-06-2005, 04:29 AM
With my terrain, I sure wish I had the health some of you guys do.
I'd sure be super tempted because as rough as it can be here, the drop in speed on a wb/sulky is almost moot...

I would however still be very concerned about the long term wear and tear on the body.
That's gotta be rough on the joints and very very hard on the wrists & hands.

On my new 48", you can not walk behind in 5th gear, not at 6 mph... On the old one you could, still you'd have to step it out, 4+mph walking is no joke. What's so hard on the wrists & hands, I've never had a problem with my T-bar operated machines.

To the other guy talking about how heavy walkers are: This is an excellent point to remember also concerning Ztr's and larger than 48" Wb's: It has been a dry, hot summer - Unlike last year and the year before, for those who can't remember what it's like when it rains heavy ALL year, weight makes all the difference in the mud. Keeping this in mind, the fixed deck 48" weighs right around 300 pounds, compare this to 500 lbs. for a float-deck and the rest of the units are so much heavier, it's a LOT easier to push or pull a 300 lb. unit through or out of the mud not to mention you won't get stuck as easy and it saves gas in the truck (more weight = less mpg).

Meanwhile, smaller props are faster on a wb, everytime I see a guy with a Ztr he's also got a pushmower, one more unit to start/(un)load every yard, takes minutes of time you need to figure this IN when comparing the two. For larger props (around an acre or bigger), the Ztr is tops but one thing was mentioned to me: You can NOT use the Ztr on any yard, it just doesn't work like that.

MTR
10-06-2005, 04:38 PM
Whoever said Z can't cut any all of lawns is somethingelse. Bring Z on down here...I will Z every lawn, WB is no way catching up with productivity, been cutting with WB for 3 1/2 years and about to get the priceless Z for good. So whoever want to run walks all year...go ahead, not in this region.

John Gamba
10-06-2005, 04:56 PM
Whoever said Z can't cut any all of lawns is somethingelse. Bring Z on down here...I will Z every lawn, WB is no way catching up with productivity, been cutting with WB for 3 1/2 years and about to get the priceless Z for good. So whoever want to run walks all year...go ahead, not in this region.


Have you used a zero turn rider?? Can you rut or turf tare in florida grasses??

John

MTR
10-06-2005, 05:15 PM
Have you used a zero turn rider?? Can you rut or turf tare in florida grasses??

John

St Augustine is the most dominant grass in FL residential and commercial. You can tear up if it is soaking wet and unhealthy, unless you are cutting hill, chances are not much that you will tear them up even you are an inexperienced rider, it is very thick and strong. There is no way I can keep up with my expanding accounts doing with WB/sulky like some said here, you should know how beaten up I am at home each day running 52" eXmark TTHP/sulky, with a Z sky and money are limitless, when I see 1 1/2 or 2 acres houses that insist me to cut in the past, I will hurry do servic in a heartbeat provided I get a rider.

John Gamba
10-06-2005, 05:33 PM
St Augustine is the most dominant grass in FL residential and commercial. You can tear up if it is soaking wet and unhealthy, unless you are cutting hill, chances are not much that you will tear them up even you are an inexperienced rider, it is very thick and strong. There is no way I can keep up with my expanding accounts doing with WB/sulky like some said here, you should know how beaten up I am at home each day running 52" eXmark TTHP/sulky, with a Z sky and money are limitless, when I see 1 1/2 or 2 acres houses that insist me to cut in the past, I will hurry do servic in a heartbeat provided I get a rider.

Yeah, are grass is very soft and if its dry it get worse. I have cut in Florida but it was only for a very short time.

John

JKOOPERS
10-06-2005, 05:37 PM
i personally like my turf tracer better than any Z . i did some fine tuning and it goes right under 8 mph. the wb holds hills better and i can almost use it on all of my acoounts except for one. the problem i see with Zs is that people just get to careless and lazy. imo my 60" tt with a 23 kaw has 530 hrs on it and i bought it april 04 . it is by far the best mower on the market :cool2:

kc2006
10-06-2005, 05:58 PM
The main reason I'm going with a ztr is for ME. Fatigue is bad with my walkbehind, it beats the crap out of my legs (which are bad already) and my hands/wrists.

I timed myself the other day while demoing a Z, and on the one street where i have 3 accounts I got done 20 mins faster and these area all smaller residentials. I've gotten to the point where I can make zero turns and not rip up the grass so its fine for me. Now then yes theres yards that a walk would be better on, due to obsticles and the little extra trimming. But being a one man show, it will even out for me. With the less fatigue of a z I have more energy to trim afterwards. It all comes down to what will keep me happy by the end of the day.

MTR
10-06-2005, 07:03 PM
The main reason I'm going with a ztr is for ME. Fatigue is bad with my walkbehind, it beats the crap out of my legs (which are bad already) and my hands/wrists.

I timed myself the other day while demoing a Z, and on the one street where i have 3 accounts I got done 20 mins faster and these area all smaller residentials. I've gotten to the point where I can make zero turns and not rip up the grass so its fine for me. Now then yes theres yards that a walk would be better on, due to obsticles and the little extra trimming. But being a one man show, it will even out for me. With the less fatigue of a z I have more energy to trim afterwards. It all comes down to what will keep me happy by the end of the day.

Fatigue is bad for everybody! My buddy doing solo running Toro small frme 52/23 all day and he has a lot, I mean a lot more accounts than I do, and he only carries that Toro, at night he has energy to take wife and kids to movies and things...me...sleeping, sored, numb, headache...couldn't move and still makes less money than he does. I busted my hind to saving $$ for the equipment but you have to invest on something that will make your life as the LIFE. Learn good lessons, so those who can invest on a quality Z from the beginning, just do it, and those who can't afford due to big debts, then you have to bust your hind for a couple seasons like I did till you are ready to afford one, now I know it is the must have thing. period.

brucec32
10-06-2005, 08:53 PM
I spent a year in S. Florida and had St. Augustine on my own home lawn. I have a small area of St. Augustine at our place in N. Florida now. I found it very forgiving and fun to cut. It really grows when it gets water so you really feel like you have accomplished something when you're done. You can discharge it and get a nice look, but it also mulches well most of the time. The coarse nature means it hides clippings well. I never felt I was damaging it with the ZTR like I do sometimes with Tall Fescue here when the weather gets hot and dry. It is mowed high and it was also very forgiving of dips from the deck over bumps and holes. So just about any mower could cut it well. I saw a LOT of big Riders down there, and it just made sense.

I am still undecided on whether to get another ZTR as a 2nd mower or to go with a wb for mulching Bermuda lawns, which are mostly small/medium. I would use the ZTR for discharging on Fescue, weedpatches, and wide areas.

My problem is that the decks I like the best (48" Exmark) don't come with the easiest controls (Hustler or Toro). I also wish Exmark would put their 44" deck on a Turf Tracer HP so I could get in a few more gates with it. Buying a wb would also leave enough cash free to keep a couple of old belt wb's around as rainy day mowers. They're really light. I mowed my yard today in the rain w/o any problems.