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6'7 330
10-05-2005, 02:40 AM
If your landscaping and lawn care services are not priced in the range you think you should be getting ,or not rising like you think they should. If you analyzed the situation in your area, what do you think the reasons why would be?

Part timers? People in your area just don’t make their landscaping a priority concern? The economy? Hispanic start up LCO”S?

Tonyr
10-05-2005, 04:31 AM
dunno mate, but why do you guys wanna carry trees around? :p

ya wouldn't see a smart aussie doin' that! (don't say you don't see smart aussies period either! LOL!) :waving:

Green-Pro
10-05-2005, 08:33 AM
We have had a very good year considering we are a new business. That being said my opinion as to your question would be a combination of three factors, geographic location, economy, and customer base.

In some areas of this country the COLA is much lower than others, hence making what you earn seem more in line with where it should be. Gas is also back up and in our area property taxes were due this past month so those not having property taxes taken out of escrow will have to pony up with that. Last but not least I really don't care where you are you will always run into some folks that just simply believe they should get landscape done or lawn service on the cheap. The first two items we have little control of, however on the last I have adhered to what alot of older members have preached on pricing, that is, this is the price take it or leave it. This has been sound advice and worked well for me as for the most part I wouldn't want to work on a project that someone wanted to get done on the cheap (to many headaches, not enough aspirin).

JMO

-Geoff

bobbygedd
10-05-2005, 09:42 AM
simple- lawnboys are idiots by nature. sound a bit harsh? it's the truth. standard procedure was laid out by the pioneers in the business, it included- giving away stuff for free, unstable billing procedures, not pursuing non payers, and never increasing thier prices. these people didn't have hindsight, and they lacked self respect. i know personally, the first 5 guys in my area that started lawn service, they were the only 5 guys servicing the surrounding 4 boroughs where we live. there was nobody else. if i took these 5 guys today, and put them in a room for a discussion, i'd leave with a throbbing headache. they are all as dumb as a bag of rocks. out of the 5-one retired broke, one still works solo and is quite wealthy, but killing himself, the other is still solo, broke, and an alchoholic, the other two.......disapeared into thin air. imagine if i were one of 5 companies in 4 townships, there were no others....i'd be a multi millionair and retired already.

PMLAWN
10-05-2005, 10:29 AM
simple- lawnboys are idiots by nature. sound a bit harsh? it's the truth. standard procedure was laid out by the pioneers in the business, it included- giving away stuff for free, unstable billing procedures, not pursuing non payers, and never increasing thier prices. these people didn't have hindsight, and they lacked self respect. i know personally, the first 5 guys in my area that started lawn service, they were the only 5 guys servicing the surrounding 4 boroughs where we live. there was nobody else. if i took these 5 guys today, and put them in a room for a discussion, i'd leave with a throbbing headache. they are all as dumb as a bag of rocks. out of the 5-one retired broke, one still works solo and is quite wealthy, but killing himself, the other is still solo, broke, and an alchoholic, the other two.......disapeared into thin air. imagine if i were one of 5 companies in 4 townships, there were no others....i'd be a multi millionair and retired already.
"lawnboys are idiots by nature"

I believe the flood gates have been opened!!

Runner
10-05-2005, 10:45 AM
Actually, that quote DOES about sum it up.
Anyone can do it - and they are. There are too many people getting into it. There are too many people doing it. There are too many people USING it (the service). It is just all too common. You get one dink after another rolling around town in "non-operation" mode. What I mean by that, is they don't have a CLUE what it costs, and frankly don't care. As long as it appears that they are putting a few bucks in their pocket,....they are good to go. Example? I talk with apt. managers and such who are paying as much for their service as they paid me 15-20 years ago. In many cases, LESS! There are just too many "temps". They go into business, are in for a few years, then crash. When they go out, there are two more to take their place. Going out and mowing lawns is not exactly rocket science, and we are certainly seeing that it takes far les than that. There are guys out there who even operation-wise are CLUEless.

Ric
10-05-2005, 11:42 AM
"lawnboys are idiots by nature"

I believe the flood gates have been opened!!

PMLAWN

BooBy, Much like Bob Denver's charter Gilligan of Gilligan's Island Fame, can now be seen in RE-RUNS. How many times have we seen the "lawnboys are idiots"???? There are about 5 main Ideas that BooBy recycles in his well over 10,000 posts of dribble(off tropic are not in post count).

BooBy not unlike Gilligan, gets himself into some very stupid statement, but some how we still laugh at our LITTLE BUDDY.

olderthandirt
10-05-2005, 11:55 AM
I don't compete with the lawn boyz so the biggest reason I can see if your not getting what you need is lack of kahunas. If you don't have them and use them to raise rates then you will soon be gone with the rest of the part time lawn boyz. Its surprising what customers will pay when they know what they will recieve.

Ric
10-05-2005, 11:58 AM
Actually, that quote DOES about sum it up.
Anyone can do it - and they are. There are too many people getting into it. There are too many people doing it. There are too many people USING it (the service). It is just all too common. You get one dink after another rolling around town in "non-operation" mode. What I mean by that, is they don't have a CLUE what it costs, and frankly don't care. As long as it appears that they are putting a few bucks in their pocket,....they are good to go. Example? I talk with apt. managers and such who are paying as much for their service as they paid me 15-20 years ago. In many cases, LESS! There are just too many "temps". They go into business, are in for a few years, then crash. When they go out, there are two more to take their place. Going out and mowing lawns is not exactly rocket science, and we are certainly seeing that it takes far les than that. There are guys out there who even operation-wise are CLUEless.

Runner

I think we have to look at the over all picture of our Economy. The powers to be allowed Corporate America to move our industry to other countries in a theory called GLOBALIZATION. BTW our Technology also. This LEFT us with a Service economy only. It is no wonder there is more competition and lower prices today. I am not sure how we can survive as service Industry business people. but feel we may in fact have to do BMW work at VW pricing in order to survive, if in fact this countries economy can survive.

Be careful what you wish for. We got Globalization and don't know what to do with it.

6'7 330
10-05-2005, 05:30 PM
I don't compete with the lawn boyz so the biggest reason I can see if your not getting what you need is lack of kahunas. If you don't have them and use them to raise rates then you will soon be gone with the rest of the part time lawn boyz. Its surprising what customers will pay when they know what they will recieve.
I agree.Lawnboyz do not have the know-how knowledge or means to manage property and estates.
If lawnboyz were my competition, I would pursue another avenue to make a living.

Tonyr
10-05-2005, 05:44 PM
ya still haven't answered my question as to why you are carrying that tree around in your avatar?

Gunna give someone a good ol' ass whoppIng with it or something LOL?? :drinkup:

wacamaster
10-05-2005, 08:07 PM
One reason rates may not have risen that much is the fact that the equipment is much better nowadays that you can get the job done looking better much quicker. And there will always be the temps.. but there will always be **** tons of people looking for a reliable quality service. Once you show em.. you keep em. Then over the years you gradually round up all the yards the temps screw up. I believe it takes a good 5 years to get established and KNOW you will have a nice route each and every year.

DLS1
10-05-2005, 08:22 PM
simple- lawnboys are idiots by nature. sound a bit harsh? it's the truth. standard procedure was laid out by the pioneers in the business, it included- giving away stuff for free, unstable billing procedures, not pursuing non payers, and never increasing thier prices. these people didn't have hindsight, and they lacked self respect. i know personally, the first 5 guys in my area that started lawn service, they were the only 5 guys servicing the surrounding 4 boroughs where we live. there was nobody else. if i took these 5 guys today, and put them in a room for a discussion, i'd leave with a throbbing headache. they are all as dumb as a bag of rocks. out of the 5-one retired broke, one still works solo and is quite wealthy, but killing himself, the other is still solo, broke, and an alchoholic, the other two.......disapeared into thin air. imagine if i were one of 5 companies in 4 townships, there were no others....i'd be a multi millionair and retired already.

Lawnboy Gilligan you always have it figured out. Why do you need to post questions about "what would you do"? :)

bobbygedd
10-05-2005, 09:31 PM
Lawnboy Gilligan you always have it figured out. Why do you need to post questions about "what would you do"? :)
listen peanut brain, SOMEBODY has to keep the action hot around here, and i notice it's never you or your cronies, but you sure like to make stupid comments and critisize

DLS1
10-05-2005, 09:40 PM
listen peanut brain, SOMEBODY has to keep the action hot around here, and i notice it's never you or your cronies, but you sure like to make stupid comments and critisize

Lawnboy to lawnboy --- I call em as I sees em. :)

6'7 330
10-05-2005, 10:23 PM
Gunna give someone a good ol' ass whoppIng with it or something LOL?? :drinkup:
That does put an idea into my head :laugh:

Keith
10-06-2005, 12:52 AM
If your landscaping and lawn care services are not priced in the range you think you should be getting ,or not rising like you think they should. If you analyzed the situation in your area, what do you think the reasons why would be?

Part timers? People in your area just don’t make their landscaping a priority concern? The economy? Hispanic start up LCO”S?


I think every one of the choices you listed may be part of it. Maybe even a few more. However, I see a lot of people outside of the lawn and landscape industry and they don't seem to be getting any large increases in their pay either. That is, unless you are in the oil business :dizzy:

PMLAWN
10-06-2005, 08:52 AM
That does put an idea into my head :laugh:
Tak'in a trip to jerrsy, is ya??

Ric
10-06-2005, 12:39 PM
Tak'in a trip to jerrsy, is ya??


PM lawn

Rodfather tells us the holiday season is a nice time of year to see the Big Apple. Maybe it is a good time to see the Big XmasTree with the little Midget on top.

Little Midgets shouldn't Chop on the bean stalk so hard. The Gaint just might fall right on top of the Little Midget, Kilt and all.

PMLAWN
10-06-2005, 01:07 PM
PM lawn

Rodfather tells us the holiday season is a nice time of year to see the Big Apple. Maybe it is a good time to see the Big XmasTree with the little Midget on top.

Little Midgets shouldn't Chop on the bean stalk so hard. The Gaint just might fall right on top of the Little Midget, Kilt and all.
ROTFLMAO :laugh: :laugh:

nate1422
10-06-2005, 01:48 PM
People don't care to maintain grass or have any knowledge about it but people want a nicer lawn than that of 10 years ago. If someone can pay a professional, keyword professional, to take care of their lawn, that's more time at the country club, kids soccer game, or out to dinner for them. So, as for turf care, rest assured, globalization is pumping money into the pockets of people/businesses that will definitely want to hire you. We are getting more service oriented so that will put more money in your pocket because people want as little trouble as possible. They don't want to have a mower sitting around or worry about junior sucking on the gas can. And when this wave of people that just bought mowers at Sears/HD/Lowe's start breaking down in 5 years, it will only get better.

I also realize people want things done cheap and they are probably the worst to deal with, but a professional, trustworthy company that will take care of a lawn and keep it looking nice will be worth it to most. If I pay good money to come home to a driveway of grass and a yard of chewed up grass where there are missed spots, why pay, I could do that. But, if I come home to a nicely striped yard and well landscaped beds......that people will pay for.

Provide a professional, courteous, reliable, clean service and it will all work out.

That being said, now you all can rip me a new one.

Ric
10-06-2005, 02:49 PM
People don't care to maintain grass or have any knowledge about it but people want a nicer lawn than that of 10 years ago. If someone can pay a professional, keyword professional, to take care of their lawn, that's more time at the country club, kids soccer game, or out to dinner for them. So, as for turf care, rest assured, globalization is pumping money into the pockets of people/businesses that will definitely want to hire you. We are getting more service oriented so that will put more money in your pocket because people want as little trouble as possible. They don't want to have a mower sitting around or worry about junior sucking on the gas can. And when this wave of people that just bought mowers at Sears/HD/Lowe's start breaking down in 5 years, it will only get better.

I also realize people want things done cheap and they are probably the worst to deal with, but a professional, trustworthy company that will take care of a lawn and keep it looking nice will be worth it to most. If I pay good money to come home to a driveway of grass and a yard of chewed up grass where there are missed spots, why pay, I could do that. But, if I come home to a nicely striped yard and well landscaped beds......that people will pay for.

Provide a professional, courteous, reliable, clean service and it will all work out.

That being said, now you all can rip me a new one.

Nate

I am not an Economist so I can't really give you a good argument back. I just see industrial or manufacturing jobs slipping away and high paid union jobs being traded for flipping burgers at Micky D's. Even our weapons of defense are being made over seas. I see the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, while the middle class slips away. I offered BMW type service to BMW type customers, but in a market that paid Buick prices. I often wonder if I wasn't the true Low Baller, however I made a good living. Inflation is driving me out of retirement and I am looking at the VW market at VW prices. When I run the numbers, I see a high margin but lower gross. However just like corporate America, I see a higher net. The problem comes from the fact that as a pesticide operator my competitor see it that way also.

mbricker
10-06-2005, 02:51 PM
Nate, the customer you describe, who wants to come home to the nice professionally maintained lawn and landscaping--unfortunately, not in the majority.

A lot of people are willing to settle for cr@p, and expect the price to be cheap. Another lot of people SAY they want professional results, but as some of you have said, want it for the same price the hackers charge. This means we have to spend a few years weeding these types out of our customer lists. In the meantime, as the hackers get into business and out again within the first 2 or 3 years, the average customer acquires the belief that the hacker's price is probably a "fair" price, and that the pros are just trying to rip people off.

When BG says "all lawn boys are idjits" I think what he really means is, "There sure are a ton of idjits that get into the business, and not only are they idjits, the rest of us are idjits for continuing to tolerate the situation."

The solution? IMHO, we MUST go to our municipal/county/whatever governing bodies, and INSIST on regulation for our industry. Licensing, assessment of business equipment, proof of filing income tax on lco earnings, the whole ball of wax. If you are one of those who says, "what we need is LESS regulation, not more," I think you are part of the problem. When our industry is abiding by the same kind of regulation as plumbers, electricians, etc., we will see the earnings of ALL of us improve (except for the elite already at a high level) because it becomes too hard for anyone with a homeowner mower and trimmer to call themselves an "lco."

nate1422
10-06-2005, 03:25 PM
I see all points and I think this could be regional in nature. I know in my area, we have lost manufacturing/union jobs but we have an influx of white collar industry that is off-setting all those loses. With those white collar jobs is money and people that will pay for a lawn service and buildings that need maintenance. I can't speak for other areas of the country.

Ric
10-06-2005, 04:08 PM
Nate

Is Pottstown not just out side Phillie and it there not a over flow of white Collar worker from The Big Apple so to speak???? yes I believe you maybe in a better market than most. Fly over country is losing there big and small manufacturing plants and the Industrialization that once made our country strong is no more. Technology is also out sourced, How strong can a service industry be in light of all this?????

mbricker

Professionalism and Regulation is not going to happen in my Area. The only requirement is a $35 per year occupational license and most don't even get that. The County Economy Development Committee freely admits that at least 60% of the lawn mowers aren't even paying IRS taxes. They feel the underground economy helps keep cost of living low, but are the first to cry when a senior citizen gets ripped off. If you want to talk about Low baller and unprofessionals then I believe Florida in general has the Country beat. Wages for labor are low and we have one of the poorest education system in the country. Add in Northern losers who come to live with Grandma while rolling out Grandpa's crapsman mower. As I stated above I did BMW work at Buick prices Heck maybe even Ford Prices. I know New People to my area were very happy to pay what I saw as top dollar in comparison to the market pricing.

nate1422
10-06-2005, 04:16 PM
I'm about an hour outside of philly and we are experiencing growth. Not much overflow from big apple, but from Philly.

lawnprosteveo
10-06-2005, 04:36 PM
simple- lawnboys are idiots by nature. sound a bit harsh? it's the truth. standard procedure was laid out by the pioneers in the business, it included- giving away stuff for free, unstable billing procedures, not pursuing non payers, and never increasing thier prices. these people didn't have hindsight, and they lacked self respect. i know personally, the first 5 guys in my area that started lawn service, they were the only 5 guys servicing the surrounding 4 boroughs where we live. there was nobody else. if i took these 5 guys today, and put them in a room for a discussion, i'd leave with a throbbing headache. they are all as dumb as a bag of rocks. out of the 5-one retired broke, one still works solo and is quite wealthy, but killing himself, the other is still solo, broke, and an alchoholic, the other two.......disapeared into thin air. imagine if i were one of 5 companies in 4 townships, there were no others....i'd be a multi millionair and retired already.I think he hit the nail on the head. Maybe its ignorance but I see alot of guys hurt themselves with ridiculously low prices, giving away services (like hedge trimming), and not running their business. They let their business run them. :pumpkin:

PMLAWN
10-06-2005, 07:44 PM
Bottom line is that we are in a business that has the most competition of just about any other business around.
Look at the dentist- All his competition is schooled just like him and pays the same insurance and has to follow the same rules. Plus the entry into the business will cost a lot. And most all customers will show up when their teeth hurt.
Lawnboy competition-
10 year old little Bobby down the street.
the kids that live in the house
the homeowner themselves
the 15 year old want to be pro
the 17 year old "I am way to smart to go to collage and work for the MAN"
the 20 something "I'm going to get rich so I will do it right with license and insurance"
the 30/40/50 something with experience and fighting to support his family with this as his only income.
Joe Bob Briggs and Billy Jack
The 60 /70 year old making a few extra bucks to help make it on the early retirement
the big corporation boys
the south of Texas boys
the fireman on his days off
and do't forget the customer that just does not care if his grass is long or crappy.

With so many different wants or needs of the service provider there is no way that the norm would be people running proper business or making real money. A "business" or trade that has a next to 0 entry cost will always produce a next to 0 pay scale. Yes some will rise above but most will not.

DLS1
10-06-2005, 11:00 PM
The solution? IMHO, we MUST go to our municipal/county/whatever governing bodies, and INSIST on regulation for our industry. Licensing, assessment of business equipment, proof of filing income tax on lco earnings, the whole ball of wax. If you are one of those who says, "what we need is LESS regulation, not more," I think you are part of the problem. When our industry is abiding by the same kind of regulation as plumbers, electricians, etc., we will see the earnings of ALL of us improve (except for the elite already at a high level) because it becomes too hard for anyone with a homeowner mower and trimmer to call themselves an "lco."

Thats funny. We can't get the government to enforce current law to keep illegals out. So you want them to enforce another law to punish illegal LCO's.

Some states are actually letting illegals get benefits using our tax dollars.

I wonder if they will let us get by without paying taxes illegally. Oh wait that wont work. You can't have legal citizens not pay taxes because the government needs to redistribute the taxes to illegals.

Ric
10-07-2005, 02:17 AM
DLS

There are two ways to look at Illegals. 1st they are stealing our work and making it hard to compete. 2nd They our great employee and make you a lot of money.

If you can't fight it, joint it. Everyone else has.

I was Luck and hooked up with some legal Mexicans. They owned Brick homes nicer than some of our customers, and we did up scale work.

DLS1
10-07-2005, 09:01 AM
DLS

There are two ways to look at Illegals. 1st they are stealing our work and making it hard to compete. 2nd They our great employee and make you a lot of money.

If you can't fight it, joint it.

Once you step over that slippery slope of doing something illegal then what is to say you wont do other things illegal. What is the point of laws. If someone has the attitude you can hire illegals then they can apply fertilizers illegal in Florida and work without insurance,etc. At least they have consistent moral values.

Ric
10-07-2005, 10:51 AM
DLS

If you are going to quote me then do it in context. You deleted

I was Luck and hooked up with some legal Mexicans. They owned Brick homes nicer than some of our customers, and we did up scale work.

I am not sure about your part of the county, But right now here in Florida good help is hard to find. Hurricane rebuilding is going on full force. But even before the Hurricanes of last year, Help was hard to find. White guys that will work in this industry are mostly dope heads or drunks. Then there are the kids, need I say more. It is not my job to control illegals and if a man or women has a valid Drivers Lic. and my Insurance company runs a profile on them as insured workers. What can do that is more legal than that???

But to go back to your point about Illegals. I am afraid if you catch every illegal and send them out of this country, we would be in worst shape than we think we are in now because of their presents. Yes it is fine to be noble and follow the letter of the law to the fine points. But Illegals are a fact of life and we as Business people must be able to adapt to those Facts of Life. Therefore I am saying if we can't change the problem of Illegals we need to adapt to the problem and joint it, in order to survive.

DLS1
10-07-2005, 04:35 PM
DLS

If you are going to quote me then do it in context. You deleted


But to go back to your point about Illegals. I am afraid if you catch every illegal and send them out of this country, we would be in worst shape than we think we are in now because of their presents. Yes it is fine to be noble and follow the letter of the law to the fine points. But Illegals are a fact of life and we as Business people must be able to adapt to those Facts of Life. Therefore I am saying if we can't change the problem of Illegals we need to adapt to the problem and joint it, in order to survive.

I didn't mean you were doing something illegal. Yes i saw all of your comments. I should have said "Once someone steps over the slippery...." instead of saying "Once you step over the slippery slope...".

Adapting to "business facts of life" doesn't mean you have to join in and hire illegals like others. That is another slippery slope leading to anarchy if everyone went the lowest common denominator route to skirt the law for everything in life just because others are skirting the law for anything and everything.

Law abiding people must hang in their until enough pressure is put on politicians to enforce the law or create new ones like harsher punishments for those who hire illegals. The lowest common denominator how a person reacts to life's situations is how strong is their moral conviction to do right or wrong and not biased on what others are doing.

I am no saint but that is how I see it.