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View Full Version : False Advertising - Cutting Heights Incorrect


aussiegreg
10-09-2005, 06:54 AM
G'day Lawnies,

I have a Toro Z597 27hp Diesel with 60in Turbo Force Deck. I have just realised that whilst my Toro is advertised with a cutting range of 1 1/2 to 5 inches in 1/4 inch increments, this is far from the truth. At an indicated height of 5 inches the mower is actually cutting at 3 1/2 inches and at an indicated 2 1/2 inches it is actually 1 inch at the blade tip.

Does anyone else have this problem???

That is with a Toro or other brands. Is this common for manufacturers to make false claims. ???

Check your mower you may be suprised!!!


Greg

grass_cuttin_fool
10-09-2005, 07:32 AM
Scag is the same way, I wish the manufactures had the true measurements on them instead of just alot of numbers. It would be alot easier when using a scag and a toro (my set up) to keep both mowers the same height

Runner
10-09-2005, 08:09 AM
I don't know of any mower that gives you the true cutting height on their indicator. It WOULD however, be nice if they cut higher than their indicator rather than lower.

FrankenScagMachines
10-09-2005, 08:21 AM
My 05 Lazer Z 60" and my friends 03 Scag Turf Tiger 61" both cut 1/2" lower than marked... Both have zero flat front tires (mine factory his he added this spring and did have to re-adjust the deck to reflect the new height) and both have proper rear tire pressure. Mine used to only be 1/4" off. It is a 2005 with 200 hours on it... things stretch after all the bouncing and beating of commercial use. If it bothers you, re-adjust your deck hanging hardware to show correct height. If you are too lazy to do that (like me!) then just set the deck higher to compensate. If you really don't give a rip (they why are you reading this thread?) or if your yards just look good as they are, then leave it alone! LOL.......

BTW, I've noticed that my TTHP has always measured at the same height as the decal indicates it should in each height pin setting. There is nothing to stretch or wear out!

Eric

rodfather
10-09-2005, 08:26 AM
Had a Ferris Z that was off by 3/4" lower than what was measured.

Creative Lawn Care
10-09-2005, 08:35 AM
My 61" Yazoo actually cuts about 3/4" lower than the label says. So I just mow all my 3" yards at 3 3/4. Sorta aggervating but it really doesnt matter.

CutInEdge Lawn Care
10-09-2005, 08:42 AM
I understand this is a standard in the industry. However, when buying my Scag Z-Cat before ever cutting grass with. I slimed tires, checked cutting heights with tape measure and they were dead on with decal.

Jason Rose
10-09-2005, 08:55 AM
I demoed 2 JD Quicktracks. A 48" and a 54" with a catcher. The 48" I tried on a lawn that I mow at 3.5" I set it at 3.5" and ended up with it set at 3" to get the same vut height.
Tried the 54" and automatically compensated by setting it at 3". OOPS, this machine was actually 3" at that height and I buzzed an extra half inch off my lawn about 50 feet long... Oh well, It was time to drop the cut height anyway for the fall...

I asked the Dixie Chopper guy here about cut height on their machines, if it was still only adjustable in 5/8" incriments. (I'd much prefer 1/4". Actually I would NEED 1/4") He said he had no idea and had never even been asked that before... I just love going into places and asking questions about a machine that have been selling for a few years that they have no answer for. Sure they can poor out the info on the hydro system and the hp+1 muffler, the s*** I don't realy care about. But ask about a grass catcher, or if the deck problems have been fixed, or hill holding capabilities, or cut height. He has no idea, so I get the usual standard "I'm sure they addressed the issue", or "It works like it's supposed too"

Ok, rant over... lol!

GrassBustersLawn
10-09-2005, 09:45 AM
My 2 ExMarks (60" Lazer & 48" LazerHP) cut 1/2" lower than indicated when compared to my TORO (44" z-147)& a buddies 60" Hustler.

Mike

Frontier-Lawn
10-09-2005, 11:39 AM
my deck gets set at 4" and cuts at 3.75". im still trying to fix it. but dont have the right wrench for it.

Mark McC
10-09-2005, 01:05 PM
My favorite beef about cutting height is that my eXmark Metro 21 has cutting height adjustments in half-inch increments at quarter inch intervals (mows at 3.25 inches, 2.75 and so on). My eXmark TTHP 52 adjusts in half-inch increments on the half inch.

My impression is that the 3.25 on the 21 cuts at the same height as the 3.0 on the TTHP. If someone can explain this to me in a way that makes any sense at all, I'm all ears. :dizzy:

6'7 330
10-09-2005, 01:23 PM
G'day Lawnies,

I have a Toro Z597 27hp Diesel with 60in Turbo Force Deck. I have just realised that whilst my Toro is advertised with a cutting range of 1 1/2 to 5 inches in 1/4 inch increments, this is far from the truth. At an indicated height of 5 inches the mower is actually cutting at 3 1/2 inches and at an indicated 2 1/2 inches it is actually 1 inch at the blade tip.

Does anyone else have this problem???

That is with a Toro or other brands. Is this common for manufacturers to make false claims. ???

Check your mower you may be suprised!!!


Greg



Whole inch and a half is outrageous.Make sure the tires are at 13 psi,and check the welds on the deck lift chains to see if any are cracked. Go though the deck level adjustment procedure,and see if you can get the height adjustments more in line with the height of cut indicatorís.

We have the same machine, it's about a ľ off each height adjustment.

Ric
10-09-2005, 01:39 PM
Bill

You half Beat me to the punch. Yes there are ways to raise that height. Tire size as well as air pressure. Adjustment of deck linkage etc. On the old Walkers I would add a 1/2" washer on the caster wheels to raise the front of the deck a 1/2" in cutting height. I also used extra washers on the deck pins to get an other 1/4 inch. Just look at your machine and see where you can raise deck height.

I believe Manufactures don't take in to account thatch build up or the fact the mower sinks into the turf when talking about cutting height.

Mark McC
10-09-2005, 01:48 PM
Bill
I believe Manufactures don't take in to account thatch build up or the fact the mower sinks into the turf when talking about cutting height.

I thought about that in regard to the difference in cutting height bases between the two mowers I talked about, but if that's the explanation, they obviously have the compensation factor wrong or most of my customers have no thatch to speak of.

TLS
10-09-2005, 02:35 PM
If a mower has a couple hundred hours on it, YES they do tend to drop some.

Figure all the things that wear...just a little bit...will contribute to a lower cut height.

The big areas to look at are in the actual lift handle. A slight bit of wear here transfers a LOT of drop to the deck.

If anything,....that annoying customer who wants their lawn cut at 4" won't know the difference....Just point to the height gauge and say....."It IS at 4" sir!"

newz7151
10-09-2005, 02:46 PM
I thought about that in regard to the difference in cutting height bases between the two mowers I talked about, but if that's the explanation, they obviously have the compensation factor wrong or most of my customers have no thatch to speak of.

I would think that getting an exact cut height is impossible due to the fact that different lawns are going to have different padding thickness, different moisture content which could make your tires sink in a little more. I nicely irrigated lawn is sure to have more "sponge" and give to the mowers tires than a lawn that depends only on rain and has half inch cracks running through it.

If you have a push mower like a 21" with marked heights, I would have to think that would be the most accurate since they are lighter than a large mower and probably do not sink into the turf as much.

Mower manufacturers probably set up their mowers on ideal condition turf and establish their "inch cut" settings based on that.

When you get to an account, try and figure out how much the ground or thatch is giving under your tires and figure your setting on an adjustment of that.

6'7 330
10-09-2005, 02:55 PM
I forgot to mention, go to a John Deere dealer and get a deck level tool. Measure the blade tips on a flat level surface.

A little off is ok,and inch and half aint good .

dcplace2004
10-09-2005, 04:25 PM
PERIOD...measure from the bottom of the blades to concrete and you will have the proper measurement, regardless of what ******oro the company says...perhaps the measurements were made in mexico and not the united states--that would be the problem...they measure in tomale lengths...

Brianslawn
10-09-2005, 04:57 PM
PERIOD...measure from the bottom of the blades to concrete and you will have the proper measurement.

correct!!!

Tonyr
10-09-2005, 06:05 PM
I hear ya Greg!

as ya know I've been through the same issue, so took mower back to mechanics, still out, and now no pitch!

So I've been fiddling with it myself, got it only 3mm out now, under.....so that's ok, BUT these are engineered, expensive machines, the distance from the concrete to the cut edge should be exactly as the setting says, period!

like, how hard can it be for this to be set up right....if the setting says 3'' it should be 3'', these should be precise, goes to show....the quality we think we are buying in the latest engineering and technology ain't necessarily so.

It stinks.

mate, as said, grab one of those john deere deck level guages, $20, best thing I have with a deere logo on it LOL, LOL.....least the guage doesn't cause me the grief this damn mower has! :help:

Richard Martin
10-09-2005, 06:47 PM
The first thing I do when I buy a new mower is take it onto my shop and set it up to my likeing. I check the tires, deck height, belt tension, fluid levels etc but...

I do think these are things that should be done by the dealer. I mean my Dixie does cost as much as a brand new Chevy Aveo. Would a person expect to buy a new car and then have to do a front end alignment? I don't think so.

A lot of mowers arrive at the dealer in parts and they need to be assembled and set up. A few such as Dixie Chopper arrive at the dealer "ready to use". In any case it seems like they assemble the mowers just enough to roll them out the door. And then if you have a problem with the setup and try to get the dealer to fix it it's like pulling teeth.

Envy Lawn Service
10-09-2005, 07:41 PM
The Lesco I bought a few months ago is the only one I have ever owned that was even remotely close to the selected cutting height when I brought it home. It's right on.

I've brought this up before... being off is annoying and I don't see how huge operations deal with it. I would hope they have an in-house mechanical staff that keeps up with it for them.

The Toro that the original poster is talking about will have to be corrected. That's way off and to the point that it gets into the realm of what my major complaint was....

Yeah sure, if it's off a 1/2" low you can compensate for that on the selector. But not if you are cutting taller heights... and reducing the max height causes troubles crossing curbs, loading, unloading, ect....

6'7 330
10-09-2005, 10:11 PM
...perhaps the measurements were made in mexico and not the united states--that would be the problem...they measure in tomale lengths...

Let's hope Chevrolet donít do measurements on the avalanche truck that's put together in Mexico, It might clause an avalanche of bull-****.

aussiegreg
10-10-2005, 08:43 AM
G'day Lawnies,

If the deck was able to be raised by 1 1/2 inches to bring it up to the correct indicated and advertised height of 5 inches then the right hand side spindle cover would be hard up under the frame.

In a lot of lawns in my part of Australia we cut at a true 1 inch ( 2 1/2 inch as indicated on the Toro ) and most at no more than a true 1 1/2 inch ( Toro 3 inch indicated )

What annoys me is that the manufacturers advertise a height but underachieve that by 30%. What would happen if Ford advertised the Mustang as having a power output of 450hp but it actually only produces 300hp.

Take a look at a brochure or online for Toro and you will see that they advertise height of cut " 1 1/2 inches to 5 inches"

Greg

Ax Man
10-10-2005, 09:03 AM
sounds like the chain is a link or 2 too long eh?

aussiegreg
10-10-2005, 09:10 AM
sounds like the chain is a link or 2 too long eh?

G'day Axman,

If I take links out then if I get it up to an indicated 5 inches then the deck would be hard up under the frame and have no give over bumps.

Greg

Frontier-Lawn
10-10-2005, 10:51 AM
G'day Lawnies,

What would happen if Ford advertised the Mustang as having a power output of 450hp but it actually only produces 300hp.



Greg

they get their butts sued thats what

anothertractor
10-10-2005, 11:37 AM
I have a 757 JD with 60 inch deck and just for the heck of it, I measured it one day. Setting on the concrete floor, it was exactly what the indicator said. It looks like I have something out of the ordinary!!

mowtech
10-10-2005, 01:35 PM
I know of no manufacturer who intentionally misrepresents their height of cut ranges. Not to say some might, but I would find it unlikely and more the exception rather than the rule. Having said that, it is difficult to have the height of cut come out consistently. The biggest variable are the tires as someone else mentioned. First, tires have a very large manufacturing tolerance. The diameter can vary by as much as an inch and secondly, tire inflation can greatly affect the rolling radius. Over inflated tires could significantly raise the height of cut. On top of this there are many parts between where the wheels attach to the frame and the deck attaches. Even slight variations in dimensions can affect the height of cut. Also any variation in the linkages between the lift mechanism and the deck hangers can affect the height relative to the indicated height. So some variation relative to the indicated height of cut should be expected. This should be adjusted out by the dealer on set up. I will say however that 1-1/2 inches off is extreme and would indicate to me that there is something very wrong with the machine in question.

General Landscaping
10-10-2005, 02:13 PM
Don't forget: when you kick the PTO on, you introduce another varible into the linkage geometry.
Just because it levels nicely at rest, doesn't mean everything will be the same when a 18HP twin is pulling on that belt.
It's more an issue for higher hour machines, but still something to watch for.

If your perfectly adjusted deck won't cut nicely, try the cut, measure, & adjust method.

TClawn
10-10-2005, 02:14 PM
I agree, the tire pressure in the back has a lot to do with it. I run my Z at 14psi, and I have the deck pitch adjusted accordingly.

TLS
10-10-2005, 02:16 PM
Yes pressure makes a BIG difference!

24x12-12's can run from 9psi to 20psi and this can vary your cut height and pitch dramatically.

Tonyr
10-10-2005, 05:18 PM
Greg, get yaself a deck level guage from john deere, this is the most easiest and accurate measuring tool. and probably the best thing deere makes these days lol!

double check your tyre pressures with an accurate guage.

still no good.....take it back to your dealer to fix....I think it sounds like a easy fix of adjusting the side deck lift assist springs ...the ones on the side with the rod going through em, sounds like these aren't set right.


These adjust the floatation, and pitch etc.

Dealer may even adjust the push arms behind the deck so it all runs in sinc.

This is the stuff my dealer recently did that enabled my deck to even come within an inch of the recommended transport height of 5'', this can position your deck slightly and enable it be be where it should be.

Don't ya just love mowers lol? :rolleyes: :cry: :cry:

Envy Lawn Service
10-10-2005, 06:25 PM
Guys, he's saying even if he could get it that high, the spindle cover would belly out against the frame.

I ran into the same thing on a Great Dane Chariot LX. It topped out in the 3" range instead of 5" or 6".... and although there were ways to adjust this out, there was only aboout 1/2" before a pulley would have made contact.

Tonyr
10-10-2005, 06:33 PM
Sorry.....I read it a bit differently, but I tend do do that :)

I know the toro frame, set properly there is loads of room between the spindle covers and frame at 5''.....maybe his diesel is a different frame to my EFI....

All I can say is, my deere had this prob, one of many lol, and to fix it they readjusted the push arm rods and readjusted the threaded deck lift system on each side, this effects how the deck is carried as well as making it easier to lift the deck, it has more than 1 function.

This can't be ruled out until it has been checked.

easycareacres
01-27-2006, 04:44 AM
whatever the brand, disbelive it is set as youre dealer tells you.
Get a measure off some type from ground and go front tip, back tip to book. What about scoring trenches as turn ? yes another prob level not true. It is painfull excersise but well worth finish in a cut.

Richard Martin
01-27-2006, 06:12 AM
and go front tip, back tip to book. What about scoring trenches as turn ? yes another prob level not true. It is painfull excersise but well worth finish in a cut.

I'm not trying to be a smart guy but would you mind saying this in American English?

Tonyr
01-27-2006, 06:40 AM
lol, I think what my ol' mate is saying and I agree, dealers are full of crap, most couldn't do a proper predelivery, i.e propperly adjust a deck if their greedy asses depended on it.

Want something done right....do it yaself, by the book.

Many of us with different brands come to the same conclusion in this country, dealers are full of crap salesmen, will not stand by what they sell, and will not back you if they can get out of it, basically, once you buy an overpriced piece of crap mower ya on ya own. in this country.