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Tonyr
10-10-2005, 07:45 PM
So much for a great way of keeping the cooling system cool, 5 minutes.....
mowing dry bermuda, removing 1''.

see the large debris on the radiator....this shouldn't be there as the radiator is supposed to be sealed to an internal duct, nothing that can't get through the rear screen should get in.

BUT they failed to seal it properly, and no fix in 2 months of notification.

This obviously causes the engine to get hot and that isn't good.

Can't earn money if you stop every 5-10 minutes to clean the rear screen, it clogs in normal conditions as fast too.

Lucky I'm patient, a 30K mower.....shame it wasn't tested more before sale.

Tonyr
10-10-2005, 07:48 PM
and the radiator.....

see the pipe on the left side behind/above the radiator.....that's the air cleaner intake! Yep, right up against the blocked screen! Good thinking J.D! :sleeping:

True Cut Lawn Maintenance
10-10-2005, 08:02 PM
Damn Tony

not making excuses but those have to be beyond normal operating conditions ;)

John Gamba
10-10-2005, 08:02 PM
Tony

Is there anyway to demo the hustler????? I do think it would be better then what you got.

Can you over lap the screen?? Can you run a flap under the screen??

John

stumper1620
10-10-2005, 08:31 PM
So much for a great way of keeping the cooling system cool, 5 minutes.....
mowing dry bermuda, removing 1''.

see the large debris on the radiator....this shouldn't be there as the radiator is supposed to be sealed to an internal duct, nothing that can't get through the rear screen should get in.

BUT they failed to seal it properly, and no fix in 2 months of notification.

This obviously causes the engine to get hot and that isn't good.

Can't earn money if you stop every 5-10 minutes to clean the rear screen, it clogs in normal conditions as fast too.

Lucky I'm patient, a 30K mower.....shame it wasn't tested more before sale.
Not that this is a cure but, can you take a regular mesh screen and have valcro strips sewn around it, then put valcro on the machine so you could just hop off yank the sceen off, slap it in the wind and put it back on.
I think I would try to come up with something like that for a temporary fix.
I deal with a lot of ffloating saw dust while stump grinding and I use 2 screens to protect the blower from plugging up, 1 screen is mounted permanent and 1 is a pull off once the vacume is broken the dust flys.

MOturkey
10-10-2005, 08:38 PM
I'd hire a midget to sit on the back with a whisk broom. :) :rolleyes:

Tonyr
10-10-2005, 08:41 PM
Hi John,

No, a Hustler is not an option. I can't say anything more than trust me, they are having similar issues. Plus, for my work, the deere cuts better. also, no hustler dealers around here.

besides, I can't afford to trade again.


Steve, good idea, but it wouldn't really work. why they didn't put a reverse radiator fan on like dozers etc beats me.

Deere told me in writing, if I do Anything to this machine they can and will cancel the warrantee as only deere usa can approve changes, alterations, fixes etc, these then go through deere australia, then if they approve then only the dealer can do them.

Even if I put an auto reverse fan on the rear to start up every minute to clear some debris, they will cancel warrantee.


I love how they have the air intake.....right in the dust.....I wanted a donalson pre cleaner bowl put up near seat, they said, no warrantee if I change their system. Yet their system is crap. LOL.

This ain't no cheap mower, paid $30.000, don't get much support for that size purchase lol.

Joel B.
10-10-2005, 09:28 PM
So much for a great way of keeping the cooling system cool, 5 minutes.....
mowing dry bermuda, removing 1''.

see the large debris on the radiator....this shouldn't be there as the radiator is supposed to be sealed to an internal duct, nothing that can't get through the rear screen should get in.

BUT they failed to seal it properly, and no fix in 2 months of notification.

This obviously causes the engine to get hot and that isn't good.

Can't earn money if you stop every 5-10 minutes to clean the rear screen, it clogs in normal conditions as fast too.

Lucky I'm patient, a 30K mower.....shame it wasn't tested more before sale.


$30,000?!?!?!.......Yikes! What model is that? What size cut? HP? It looks like a regular zero-turn mower.

Pecker
10-10-2005, 09:31 PM
$30,000?!?!?!.......Yikes! What model is that? What size cut? HP? It looks like a regular zero-turn mower.

Austrailia. . .

Albemarle Lawn
10-10-2005, 09:34 PM
= $22,731 USD

Still, lots of $ for a ZTR.

My JD WAM 1600 plugs up like that too.

JD eventually re-designed it with top cooling vs. rear cooling.

stumper1620
10-10-2005, 09:36 PM
Austrailia. . .
JD 997, diesel, rear discharge, in Austrailia!
that pretty much says it all!

Tonyr
10-10-2005, 09:38 PM
= $22,731 USD

Still, lots of $ for a ZTR.

My JD WAM 1600 plugs up like that too.

JD eventually re-designed it with top cooling vs. rear cooling.


Thanks for joining in!

Perfect! My dealer said this is what he thinks deere 'may' do with mine.

Any chance you could post a pic/s of your rig please, and how effective do you find the top screen?

Lawn Masters
10-10-2005, 09:44 PM
a mower that one pays $30K in ANY nations currency, one would expect the manufacturer to fix that issue, and make the damn thing work right. the radiator being on the top of the motor, with the intake for the motor being located somewhere other than where they put it. were it me, I'd strap a blower onto the mower put some extra tubing on it so it could be removed easily for whatever, and still clear the cooling system of the crap on it.

TLS
10-10-2005, 09:51 PM
$23K for a ZTR!!!

That is rediculous. I could see $15K.....maybe!


Tony,

Are these clogging issues directly related to the fact that the debris is being discharged right under the screen?

Would a SD deck be having these same issues?

Would a wavy screen (like a LC Lazer has) be better. Mine will fill up in the valleys, but the tops of the screen are always clear.

jbell113
10-10-2005, 09:58 PM
I like how Everyone here offers suggestions on how to fix this temporarily when the real issue here is what does JD plan on doing to fix this problem permanently. If it were me I would be at the nearest dealer ship at first light tapping my foot at the front door. This is a serious design flaw and JD should take this mower back and give Tony a brand new design flawless mower that he can use. Im interested to see how JD handles this because it will determine wether or not I ever buy another JOHN DEERE piece of equipment.

Tonyr
10-10-2005, 10:19 PM
$23K for a ZTR!!!

That is rediculous. I could see $15K.....maybe!


Tony,

Are these clogging issues directly related to the fact that the debris is being discharged right under the screen?

Would a SD deck be having these same issues?

Would a wavy screen (like a LC Lazer has) be better. Mine will fill up in the valleys, but the tops of the screen are always clear.


Mate,

after talking to 'revolution ' on here who has 2 side discharge models, it seems my problem is mainly due to rear discharge. BUT, as the debris is not discharged out, or directly under the screen, it is in the dust n stuff further forward, the machine has a rubber mat under it, and just behind the axel is a deflector, nothing flies out back.

A SD would still clog in my opinion, but no where near as fast, and obviously conditions varying would effect this too, if conditions are dusty, dry grass etc, I think a SD could clog, just not as quick.

The suction from the rear is strong, it will hold a towel in place!

Why have the air cleaned intake sucking from the rear of any mower amazes me....the clean area is up near the seat, and these types of units should have precleaner bowls on, filters cost too must to throw away every week.

The corrugated screen.....this is something they are tossing around too, it should of had this anyway for strength.

My guess is they will try the cheapest fixes first....corrugated rear screen.
then as this won't work, as it will just take a bit longer to clog, then they will look at redesigning the rear to suck from the top.

But, as this all happens in america, and you guys are coming into snow, that puts R&D behind 6 months?


These machines are top notch, only they buggered up with that rear screen and engine air intake position, everything else is great.

I suspect they built it for looks....it certainly has them....but practibility was sacraficed.

If you demo one, do it all day and in dry conditions.

stumper1620
10-10-2005, 10:25 PM
Mate,

after talking to 'revolution ' on here who has 2 side discharge models, it seems my problem is mainly due to rear discharge. BUT, as the debris is not discharged out, or directly under the screen, it is in the dust n stuff further forward, the machine has a rubber mat under it, and just behind the axel is a deflector, nothing flies out back.

A SD would still clog in my opinion, but no where near as fast, and obviously conditions varying would effect this too, if conditions are dusty, dry grass etc, I think a SD could clog, just not as quick.

The suction from the rear is strong, it will hold a towel in place!

Why have the air cleaned intake sucking from the rear of any mower amazes me....the clean area is up near the seat, and these types of units should have precleaner bowls on, filters cost too must to throw away every week.

The corrugated screen.....this is something they are tossing around too, it should of had this anyway for strength.

My guess is they will try the cheapest fixes first....corrugated rear screen.
then as this won't work, as it will just take a bit longer to clog, then they will look at redesigning the rear to suck from the top.

But, as this all happens in america, and you guys are coming into snow, that puts R&D behind 6 months?


These machines are top notch, only they buggered up with that rear screen and engine air intake position, everything else is great.

I suspect they built it for looks....it certainly has them....but practibility was sacraficed.

If you demo one, do it all day and in dry conditions.
Tony,
I think Deere R&D needs to make a trip down to visit you and figure things out during our down season, maybe you should offer up your conditions as a perfect proving grounds. sure looks like it is to me!
Your pictures you have posted tell the whole story, what a tuff area.:D

mdb landscaping
10-10-2005, 10:26 PM
"you got hosed tommy, you got hosed"

TLS
10-10-2005, 10:29 PM
"you got hosed tommy, you got hosed"

:dizzy: If you say so. Did I mis something? :confused:

Tonyr
10-10-2005, 10:30 PM
I like how Everyone here offers suggestions on how to fix this temporarily when the real issue here is what does JD plan on doing to fix this problem permanently. If it were me I would be at the nearest dealer ship at first light tapping my foot at the front door. This is a serious design flaw and JD should take this mower back and give Tony a brand new design flawless mower that he can use. Im interested to see how JD handles this because it will determine wether or not I ever buy another JOHN DEERE piece of equipment.


Hi mate,

this issue was bought to deeres attention at the start, a couple of months ago, along with how to make the deck desperse clippings neater.

The latter was never addessed.

deere does not offer support direct to clients, they rely on dealers.

my dealer is working hard with deere, so he says, to get a fix done, and I also take 'in field' pics of the clogging etc , he tells me deere have told him they are looking into it.

that's it....

every time I ask for an update, he says, they appreciate the photos etc, and are still looking into it....

so....all I know is deere is looking into it....

hey, they may not even fix it, they may wait a year or so and bring out the improved version and re model it....like companies do.

I don't know how deere treats it's fellow countrymen, but they don't relate to international clients at all. period.

deere in my country....they just pass stuff on, I'm not aware we have a r n d dept, or design dept....they too only work with dealers, not clients.

When summer really kicks in, and they say it's gunna be the hottest on record this poor machine is gunna cook it's ass off. lol.

True Cut Lawn Maintenance
10-10-2005, 10:30 PM
If i was guessing those machines wernt designed for the conditions that tony has to put up with I have yet to actually see a r/d around here one dealer near me has a 997 in the showroom and if i had the $$ id bring that sucker home

Tony, how do the Toro and Deere compare?? would you ever go back to the toro??

Albemarle Lawn
10-10-2005, 10:33 PM
I don't have a pic but it looks just like yours, clogged.

The current wide area mower can be seen on JD website, note the intake at the top.

Im unfortunately have to stop and clean every 15 minutes in dry grass conditions. Every 5 minutes if dry and tall, too.

Usually not a prob, just in dry stuff.

Check your air filter, would be worth a "tap out" or blast of air to clean it.

Ken

Tonyr
10-10-2005, 10:38 PM
Steve, great point!

I Really Wish someone would get out of their air con offices and come to me and see for themselves, I'm only 4 or 5 hours away from the deere australia's head office!

The rep won't return my emails, won't come up here, I have to rely on my dealer guy, deere employees, or deere corp seem uninterested in talking direct to the client.

Remember at the start I was whining about clipping despersal....and I was trying to get deere usa to advise....had a run in with this customer service person who refused to help as I'm not american, well they sent my emails to deere here, got a gruff call from someone important, I was to just stop, they would design something and have an answer within 4 days, they had something off another mower in mind, chains.....that was about 6 weeks ago, no word.

Not a very reassuring feeling when you join the supposingly best company and they are worse than toro! lol

Tonyr
10-10-2005, 10:45 PM
If i was guessing those machines wernt designed for the conditions that tony has to put up with I have yet to actually see a r/d around here one dealer near me has a 997 in the showroom and if i had the $$ id bring that sucker home

Tony, how do the Toro and Deere compare?? would you ever go back to the toro??



these rd units were made to do parks, rough mowing, large lawns, schools etc.

in production the deere is 20-30% faster than the toro of same size deck on the big jobs.

the deere is built very well, built heavier, more industrial than my old toro.

knowing what I know now, if toro got a good dealer closer, I'd buy another, actually toro is supposed to be bringing out a rear discharge deck model soon, be keen to see as toro have been making great stuff lately.

after getting used to rear discharge, there is no going back to side discharge....imagine a mulch kit under ya deck that never bogged down and could cut anything a 10 mph....that's what these decks are like.

Tonyr
10-10-2005, 10:50 PM
I don't have a pic but it looks just like yours, clogged.

The current wide area mower can be seen on JD website, note the intake at the top.

Im unfortunately have to stop and clean every 15 minutes in dry grass conditions. Every 5 minutes if dry and tall, too.

Usually not a prob, just in dry stuff.

Check your air filter, would be worth a "tap out" or blast of air to clean it.

Ken

Oh No Ken....You mean they didn't fix yours!!

Now I'm worried!:angry: as there are more outfronts around than ZTR's, even over here they are popular!

Well that goes to show.....you have to stop often on your machine which is meant to run all day non stop, so if your rig didn't get upgraded, I have no hope!:angry:

I clean the filter reg. mate, it gets full, dealer says a new one, $45 every week or 2 is advised....the $$ all add up.

True Cut Lawn Maintenance
10-10-2005, 10:51 PM
The day i win the lottery i will have 2 things in my driveway

1.) New ford f-250 stroker diesel crew cab, long bed

2.) Deere 997 ZTR

the rest will be invested wisley

grasswhacker
10-10-2005, 10:53 PM
Mate,

after talking to 'revolution ' on here who has 2 side discharge models, it seems my problem is mainly due to rear discharge. BUT, as the debris is not discharged out, or directly under the screen, it is in the dust n stuff further forward, the machine has a rubber mat under it, and just behind the axel is a deflector, nothing flies out back.

A SD would still clog in my opinion, but no where near as fast, and obviously conditions varying would effect this too, if conditions are dusty, dry grass etc, I think a SD could clog, just not as quick.

The suction from the rear is strong, it will hold a towel in place!

Why have the air cleaned intake sucking from the rear of any mower amazes me....the clean area is up near the seat, and these types of units should have precleaner bowls on, filters cost too must to throw away every week.

The corrugated screen.....this is something they are tossing around too, it should of had this anyway for strength.

My guess is they will try the cheapest fixes first....corrugated rear screen.
then as this won't work, as it will just take a bit longer to clog, then they will look at redesigning the rear to suck from the top.

But, as this all happens in america, and you guys are coming into snow, that puts R&D behind 6 months?


These machines are top notch, only they buggered up with that rear screen and engine air intake position, everything else is great.

I suspect they built it for looks....it certainly has them....but practibility was sacraficed.

If you demo one, do it all day and in dry conditions.


09-16-2005, 08:14 AM
grasswhacker
LawnSite Senior Member

I think the time and $$ would be better spent making better mulching systems than RD mowers.

Need I say more. Hope they work it out for you tonyr

DLCS
10-10-2005, 11:03 PM
#1. Tony is doing what we call here "brush hogging". Not many people here buy a ztr to cut that heavy of growth. Some of the pics Tony has posted in the past tells me that this mower isn't made for that type of use.

2. Sometimes there is "bugs" in a first year model. Granted its not right to the consumer but happens with lots of things.

I'm looking at buying one next spring, dealer qouted me $12,500.:)

TLS
10-10-2005, 11:09 PM
I'm looking at buying one next spring, dealer qouted me $12,500.:)

Thats more like it!

I agree with the abnormal use that Tony gives his ZTR's. While they're certainly capable, they are not designed for this use.

However, dry dusty conditions were very common in my area this season.



Tony,

Does it actually OVERHEAT when they clog up? Though air is blocked with the dirt/chaff, the amount of surface area is immense compared to other liquid cooled units. Maybe they engineered in a LARGE surface area to compensate for clogging?


My only issue with this mower is the 8 foot length! :dizzy:

TClawn
10-10-2005, 11:11 PM
y'know, for $22,000 it would probably be cheaper to buy the deere in hawaii, and ship it to aussie land as a "used" item. for your areas, I am surprised that you didn't buy something like a kubota tractor with a 6' flail on the back.

Tonyr
10-10-2005, 11:23 PM
Couple of points I need to set straight.

I don't always use ZTR's for bush hogging, this mower does parks, easy mowing, only has done a few rough jobs, parks are bermuda, cut from 5'' down to 3'', if this is tough, you guys have no idea what large areas mowing is about, and frankly, these units are designed for exactly what I'm doing with them, exactly, even according to the job description list written up by deere.

Sure I post some extreme pics....who the hell wants to keep seeing pics of lawns all the time?

Doesn't mean I do extreme mowing all the time!

And keep in mind, this is a REAR DISCHARGE deck, it is for mowing of basically everything, from lawns to paddocks, that's what they are designed for!!


Yes when I'm cutting a park with bermuda removing 1'' of leaf cutting it down to 3'', it clogs, it will overheat, but yesterday it didn't.

You guys reckon what I do is not what these Commercial 31hp machines are designed for would not last a season with that attitude in this country, these BIG COMMERCIAL CUTTERS have much more scope to put $$$ in your pocket than yas imagine. That's the idea!!

This Rear discharge 60'' 997, 31hp diesel is not ya normal finish type mower, it is the closest thing to being the most able cutting thing on the market, from large lawns to rough paddocks, and anything inbetween.

Please don't start judging my business when you have little knowledge of it and little knowledge of what Rear Discharge decks can do and what they are designed for.

TLS
10-10-2005, 11:33 PM
Tony,

I don't think any of us are trying to judge your business, or tell you what you can or cant do. What your doing with the mower isn't the problem. Your problem is the cooling fan is sucking up chaff and clogging up the cooling screen.

JD needs to address this (your) issue. Either with a reversing fan, a thermostatically controlled fan (not always on), or relocated/redesigned inlet screens.

The problem is.....there are only a handfull of these out in the field.

We are here to help Tony. There are a lot of people here that work in, near, or around where these are built. Maybe we can help get their gears spinning in their heads and get this situation resloved real quick like.

DLCS
10-10-2005, 11:38 PM
Couple of points I need to set straight.

I don't always use ZTR's for bush hogging, this mower does parks, easy mowing, only has done a few rough jobs, parks are bermuda, cut from 5'' down to 3'', if this is tough, you guys have no idea what large areas mowing is about, and frankly, these units are designed for exactly what I'm doing with them, exactly, even according to the job description list written up by deere.

Sure I post some extreme pics....who the hell wants to keep seeing pics of lawns all the time?

Doesn't mean I do extreme mowing all the time!

And keep in mind, this is a REAR DISCHARGE deck, it is for mowing of basically everything, from lawns to paddocks, that's what they are designed for!!


Yes when I'm cutting a park with bermuda removing 1'' of leaf cutting it down to 3'', it clogs, it will overheat, but yesterday it didn't.

You guys reckon what I do is not what these Commercial 31hp machines are designed for would not last a season with that attitude in this country, these BIG COMMERCIAL CUTTERS have much more scope to put $$$ in your pocket than yas imagine. That's the idea!!

This Rear discharge 60'' 997, 31hp diesel is not ya normal finish type mower, it is the closest thing to being the most able cutting thing on the market, from large lawns to rough paddocks, and anything inbetween.

Please don't start judging my business when you have little knowledge of it and little knowledge of what Rear Discharge decks can do and what they are designed for.



Sorry, for posting. Didn't mean to ruffel your feathers again. I'll just refrain from commenting on your problems.

Tonyr
10-10-2005, 11:41 PM
I was responding to....



#1. Tony is doing what we call here "brush hogging". Not many people here buy a ztr to cut that heavy of growth. Some of the pics Tony has posted in the past tells me that this mower isn't made for that type of use.

and


I agree with the abnormal use that Tony gives his ZTR's. While they're certainly capable, they are not designed for this use.

Tonyr
10-10-2005, 11:45 PM
Sorry, for posting. Didn't mean to ruffel your feathers again. I'll just refrain from commenting on your problems.


AGAIN??

You have not ruffled my feathers, and I value your comments, I just felt you guys were on the way to blaming me for my mower's problems by abusing it somehow.

I can't remember you ruffling my feathers any time, sorry for sounding harsh, not intended, I'm not in a mood lol, just a bad post, sorry.

Lawn Masters
10-11-2005, 12:54 AM
maybe what you should do, is go directly to the reps office for your area, and meet him on his way in, then make him watch what the mower does, and get him to see the problem first hand.

if that doesnt get their attention, I cant think of anything that will short of it overheating, and the motor getting ruined because of overheating due to the factory engineering failure.

Envy Lawn Service
10-11-2005, 01:48 AM
Tony,

This is what attorneys are for. They have had more than an ample amount of time to put forth some effort towards you. This issue is like an Achilles heel to the machine. It cripples the beast every few minutes and meanwhile it's accelerating the death of the engine by having it run that way, even if it is not totally overheated.

So take some sound advice... wash your hands of it and hire an attorney. Sue them for $30K plus and take it public. That will get their attention. Nothing else is going to.


Now, just so you know, Grasshoppers for instance, do not have this issue. Their radiator is located in-board behind the seat. Rarely does anythiing ever get on it, and when it does, there is a simple slide out debris screen, at that's all there is to it. The are cleaner is also not integrated like the deere. Simple separate canister type filter like the one that was on your Toro.

Deere's design is just dumb... even for a side discharge.

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 02:06 AM
I hear ya mate....

It would cost me 30K to get an attorney probably, an ex client of mine is one, just prelim work is 250 an hour, court 1000 an hour.

I hired him to get the builders to finish errecting my shed last feb.

he made 4 calls, 1500.....


I can't afford an attorney, buying the mower, with mortgage and in the middle of this nasty drought with stuff all work on leaves me stuffed.

I can't change to another mower, and am now set on rear discharge, so I only have deere and hustler, and the hustler is no better.....I know a guy with one.

Up North
10-11-2005, 02:51 AM
Tony, we all know you abuse your mowers to the hilt...heck, I'm surprised anyone would even sell you one knowing that you're going to come crawling back complaining about something...:D

Just kidding ol' mate. I'd ask ya how you're doing but I can plainly see that you've got a serious issue on your hands. Hope all works out for you buddy, JD needs to see this thread and maybe that would light a fire under their butts as a lot of mower purchases are based on feedback from the members of this site.

Best of luck to you Tony.

P.S. My moose has been eyeing the rear discharge on that "mean, green, grass destroying machine" of yours...:dizzy:

Buck

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 03:03 AM
G'Day Buck!! So Long, No Mooooose!!

Geeeezus mate, hows it bloody hangin' ole mate??

Bloody dry n hot here, no grass, coming into the hottest summer on record they say too, many of our city dams are at 30%, scary.

Ya Deralict Moose got to my innocent Toro, it was shagged and went to the doggers, please leave my innocent, highly bred and refined cow alone LOL.

It similates Shrek on some jobs LOL!

Great to hear from ya!






I'll go book in theoropy now, I'll need it.....your baaad!

tshank
10-11-2005, 03:28 AM
I hear ya mate....

It would cost me 30K to get an attorney probably, an ex client of mine is one, just prelim work is 250 an hour, court 1000 an hour.

I hired him to get the builders to finish errecting my shed last feb.

he made 4 calls, 1500.....


I can't afford an attorney, buying the mower, with mortgage and in the middle of this nasty drought with stuff all work on leaves me stuffed.

I can't change to another mower, and am now set on rear discharge, so I only have deere and hustler, and the hustler is no better.....I know a guy with one.

Approach the lawyer and tell him you would like to work for him again. Your rate is $250 an hour.

Does the Aussie sys. have a consumer protection bunch? Occasionally that works here. Sometimes. Maybe.

PMLAWN
10-11-2005, 07:42 AM
Tonyr-
Sorry to read about your problems. It sucks to get frustrated every day using something that was bought to make life better. Hope they fix it.
I know what happens in the dry as we had a 6 week time with no rain and had to wear goggles and mask. Had to bang out prefilter every few hours.
But that ended last Friday with us getting 8 inches of rain non stop till now and the new problem will be fitting Super Swampers on the Toro.
Are we having fun yet??

Good luck with it all and remember that there's always a Fosters at the end of the tunnel.

Pecker
10-11-2005, 10:28 AM
Supposedly, manufacturers like to view what is written here to see how their machines compete. As someone who has also invested in much Deere equipment and takes alot of pride in owning and operating Deere equipment, I'd really like it if someone with Deere would post a response here on Lawnsite and address this issue (read: restore some of our faith in a tradition-rich American company).

REVOLUTION LAWN CO.
10-11-2005, 12:14 PM
Hi TonyR,

Sorry to hear about your problem. I was going to let you know I have been trying oput the Meg-Mo blades on one 997 and I think it would probably help your clogging problem. However if the grass is extrmeely tall and wet it will clump with the side discharge model not sure about the rear. I'll try and get the deck completely cleaned out and run it through some tall grass and try and post my results. Overall at the moment the blades are working extremely well. I have noticed before my screen would clog and that is no longer a problem. The Meg-Mo blades discharge the grass farther and chops them up real fine so they dont clump as bad. Anyways ill post a reply later today.

Revolution Lawn
Dillon Kenaga

wig
10-11-2005, 01:18 PM
Tony,

I would change out the fan blade to one with the opposite pitch in order for it to blow out instead of suck in. Whenever you take it in for service put the original blade back on. Upon doing this watch your temperature gauge to see how much hotter it runs but it should still run cooler than a clogged radiator intake does.
I realize this is not a permanent solution to your problem but it might enable you to cut longer between cleanings until JD can come up with a fix.
Now where to find this blade I wouldn't have a clue. Might have to have one made in machine shop

wig

TLS
10-11-2005, 01:23 PM
Is the cooling fan on the 997 belt driven, hydraulic driven, or electric?

John Gamba
10-11-2005, 01:38 PM
Tony

Before you reverse the fan, Look into what else is cooled by the fan (Sucking) in stead of (blowing) IE hydros and the like. It is a good idea but i would think a simple solution like this, deere would of had you do almost immediately.

John

kc2006
10-11-2005, 01:41 PM
The problem with making the fan a pusher instead of a puller is your going to be pushing the hot air out but at the same time not allowing cold air in. If the fan is electric you should be able to just switch the wires on it and it will reverse. But that will void warrenty as Tony said.

Until they get off their a$$es and fix the problem, I'd take the engine cover off and run it without. Just like taking a hood off a car, your going to allow more air at the radiator and you probably won't have as big a problem with air/debris tunneling from the deck and sweeping up along the cover to the grille. Your going to disturb the smooth travel of air and it shouldn't go to the radiator then.

John Gamba
10-11-2005, 02:05 PM
The problem with making the fan a pusher instead of a puller is your going to be pushing the hot air out but at the same time not allowing cold air in. If the fan is electric you should be able to just switch the wires on it and it will reverse. But that will void warrenty as Tony said.

Until they get off their a$$es and fix the problem, I'd take the engine cover off and run it without. Just like taking a hood off a car, your going to allow more air at the radiator and you probably won't have as big a problem with air/debris tunneling from the deck and sweeping up along the cover to the grille. Your going to disturb the smooth travel of air and it shouldn't go to the radiator then.

Tony do this and

Put a flap under the screen, this will keep the dust down. Let it ride on the ground or drag on the ground.

stumper1620
10-11-2005, 02:27 PM
I hear ya mate....

It would cost me 30K to get an attorney probably, an ex client of mine is one, just prelim work is 250 an hour, court 1000 an hour.

I hired him to get the builders to finish errecting my shed last feb.

he made 4 calls, 1500.....


I can't afford an attorney, buying the mower, with mortgage and in the middle of this nasty drought with stuff all work on leaves me stuffed.

I can't change to another mower, and am now set on rear discharge, so I only have deere and hustler, and the hustler is no better.....I know a guy with one.
Contact the attorney, pay a retainer and request him to include all cost in the suite, He should have no problem with that if he can get Deere to pay Him the kinda money your talking.
after all if Deere would step to the plate and address your concerns, you wouldn't need a lawyer.

jbell113
10-11-2005, 05:45 PM
Hi mate,

this issue was bought to deeres attention at the start, a couple of months ago, along with how to make the deck desperse clippings neater.

The latter was never addessed.

deere does not offer support direct to clients, they rely on dealers.

my dealer is working hard with deere, so he says, to get a fix done, and I also take 'in field' pics of the clogging etc , he tells me deere have told him they are looking into it.

that's it....

every time I ask for an update, he says, they appreciate the photos etc, and are still looking into it....

so....all I know is deere is looking into it....

hey, they may not even fix it, they may wait a year or so and bring out the improved version and re model it....like companies do.

I don't know how deere treats it's fellow countrymen, but they don't relate to international clients at all. period.

deere in my country....they just pass stuff on, I'm not aware we have a r n d dept, or design dept....they too only work with dealers, not clients.

When summer really kicks in, and they say it's gunna be the hottest on record this poor machine is gunna cook it's ass off. lol.

Hey tony, if its true that JD doesnt relate to international clients than they dont need to sell there stuff internationally ..do you agree? You seem extremely relaxed about the situation judging from your post but this pisses me off and its not even my mower. All I can say is if I spent that kind of money and had the problems with the mower that you are having I would (and im not joking) where ever there corporate head quarters are located at I would drive it right up to the front door and ask for the president of the john deere corporation. Ive got to go outside Im steaming.. thinking like this is happening to me. good luck mate

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 06:04 PM
Thanks for the ideas and comments guys, muchly appreciated.

I cannot do anything to this mower, they have told me I will lose warrantee, can't experiment with ideas, can't change fan, can't add an auto reverse fan, can't even add a 12 volt cigatette plug to the wiring harness, can't wire in a socket to power my amber flashing light, cannot try to fix the faulty radiator seals, can't add, modify, mess with the rear screen, cannot even fart on this thing, or apart from my last attempt of humour re farting lol, I will lose warrantee, got it all on email, I have been warned.

Deere is looking into this, I'm to trust them and wait, and this machine can have nothing like power outlets added as it did not come out with them.

kinda sucks hey.....

most deere machines come standard with power outlets, not the 997, it is very standard, no frills.

Whilst this is a great mower, it's weak area is the air intake for the radiator and engine intake.


Whilst rear discharge obviously is the main cause of the accelerated clogging up of the screen, this doesn't mean we dump rear discharge, these are going to replace side discharge, only a matter of time, deere should of done more testing, that's all....

But then, as said earlier even the outfront rear discharge mowers have the same problem, and deere never fixed them, only addressed it on the next model. i.e top mounted screen.

I honestly think deere has had such a good name for so long, they are now starting to rest on a good old reputation and letting their clients down some by not testing their products enough, seems they are doing what others do, throw out a new model, and fix the complaints as they come in, the more major the complaint, the faster the fix. I hope I'm wrong, I hope I just bought a lemon.

But as these units are not big sellers, and I am in Australia....and as you guys are coming into winter, I very much doubt until more units sell, more complaints come in that deere would warrant spending money on a fix, especially when the only client whining is an aussie.

John Gamba
10-11-2005, 06:14 PM
Thanks for the ideas and comments guys, muchly appreciated.

I cannot do anything to this mower, they have told me I will lose warrantee, can't experiment with ideas, can't change fan, can't add an auto reverse fan, can't even add a 12 volt cigatette plug to the wiring harness, can't wire in a socket to power my amber flashing light, cannot try to fix the faulty radiator seals, can't add, modify, mess with the rear screen, cannot even fart on this thing, or apart from my last attempt of humour re farting lol, I will lose warrantee, got it all on email, I have been warned.

Deere is looking into this, I'm to trust them and wait, and this machine can have nothing like power outlets added as it did not come out with them.

kinda sucks hey.....

most deere machines come standard with power outlets, not the 997, it is very standard, no frills.

Whilst this is a great mower, it's weak area is the air intake for the radiator and engine intake.


Whilst rear discharge obviously is the main cause of the accelerated clogging up of the screen, this doesn't mean we dump rear discharge, these are going to replace side discharge, only a matter of time, deere should of done more testing, that's all....

But then, as said earlier even the outfront rear discharge mowers have the same problem, and deere never fixed them, only addressed it on the next model. i.e top mounted screen.

I honestly think deere has had such a good name for so long, they are now starting to rest on a good old reputation and letting their clients down some by not testing their products enough, seems they are doing what others do, throw out a new model, and fix the complaints as they come in, the more major the complaint, the faster the fix. I hope I'm wrong, I hope I just bought a lemon.

But as these units are not big sellers, and I am in Australia....and as you guys are coming into winter, I very much doubt until more units sell, more complaints come in that deere would warrant spending money on a fix, especially when the only client whining is an aussie.



Put a flap underneath it. They wont know if you dont fart LOLOL



Good luck Mate:waving: If i can help in anyway just yell:D

TLS
10-11-2005, 06:22 PM
Right now, warranty would be my last concern. You need a mower that works.

Adding a 12V adapter shouldn't void ANY warranty (unless you screw up factory wiring by doing so).

I highly doubt that John Deere R&D just takes a vacation during our winter months. Keep on them.

I do feel however that a SD deck wouldn't be having as bad of a problem with the clogging.

I'd let the thing overheat, and take it in for warranty with a blown engine. They keep replacing 31hp Yanmars, that'll get their attention.

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 06:28 PM
Hi John, shhhhhh, I tried the flap, didn't make any difference, dunno why.

even cutting lush grass it will suck up the material and clog, it clogs even in the rain. the flap should of worked, had it just touching the ground, about a ft behind the deck.


see, with these decks discharge full deck width, and more....e.g it comes out in front on the tyres, and out side so the actual discharge width is quite a bit more than the deck width, this is to minimise clumping.

so, while a flap under the machine should work, it doesn't.

shhhhh, don't tell anyone I tried to use my initiative, I'm not allowed to do that, lol.

I hear everyones points about adding another precleaner screen like the tractors have, wish I had pics, but in this case there is no room, unless outside, which I can't do, and doubt it would work in this case. It's hard to explain how these are set up.

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 06:37 PM
Good Point TLS,

I suggested this to my dealer lol.

OK, when it gets hot, a buzzer goes off, the blades auto shut off, this is a sensor that is supposed to stop me working until I have cooled the engine, i.e cleaned screen, radiator.....and a few minute idle cool.

Dealer reassures me it won't blow engine as this protection system won't let it happen.

But, seems off that when hot it spews coolant out of the bottle.....gets hot, loses fluid, hmmmmmm.

I keep pointing this out, but I don't think dealer sees this as a problem, as he thinks once we correct the screen clogging it won't get hot, so won't lose fluid.

I send him pics of problems, but it seems funny....you would think I would hear something direct from deere about conditions etc.....now I am wandering how much of the info I'm giving is actually been passed on to deere usa.....guess I just have to trust them.

Damn, I hope he is passing them on.....I'll be spewin if he isn't!:angry:

John Gamba
10-11-2005, 06:42 PM
Hi John, shhhhhh, I tried the flap, didn't make any difference, dunno why.

even cutting lush grass it will suck up the material and clog, it clogs even in the rain. the flap should of worked, had it just touching the ground, about a ft behind the deck.


see, with these decks discharge full deck width, and more....e.g it comes out in front on the tyres, and out side so the actual discharge width is quite a bit more than the deck width, this is to minimise clumping.

so, while a flap under the machine should work, it doesn't.

shhhhh, don't tell anyone I tried to use my initiative, I'm not allowed to do that, lol.

I hear everyones points about adding another precleaner screen like the tractors have, wish I had pics, but in this case there is no room, unless outside, which I can't do, and doubt it would work in this case. It's hard to explain how these are set up.

You want to know something!! I can ship a Hustler 251K rear discharge mower. It has no problems with clogging.

Think about it?? Ps It already has Meg-mos on it

John

TLS
10-11-2005, 06:44 PM
Does the lady with the 1987 hair come with it John?

TLS
10-11-2005, 06:45 PM
Tony,

Sounds like maybe they're pulling too many cfm of air through the radiator.

Back to my question from a previous post....what powers this cooling fan?

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 06:56 PM
Ha ha, Thanks John!

I'll battle with deere, the way the industry is here I think this will be my last mower, new developments aren't putting in parks etc now, and that is my 'thing' and lawnies doing ressie work are doing it for peanuts on old ride ons etc. I'm losing my niche here, and honestly, I'm getting tired of the problems with mowers, servicing etc, thanks for your offer though!

I did make more enquiries with meg mo for blades on my deere, but he didn't seem interested in my questions. And on another thread I read you can bend the discs easily, for the $$, I want tough, that was a point I liked, hit something the blade swings away to protect the spindle bearings, but I'm seeing these are built for your residential finish mowing industry, not the wide scope of muck I do.

But anyway, that's over, and doubt they would of helped enough to warrant the price anyway, we will never know lol.

anyway, I better go, only 2 jobs today, vacant land, time to get ready to go out and get this deere all choked up lol.

kc2006
10-11-2005, 06:58 PM
I still say just take the engine cover off and run it that way. Take it to the dealer or if a rep does actually go and check it out, toss the engine cover back on. Shouldn't be too hard to take on and off and no one will ever know.

:D

I say we swamp JD with emails, theres what 30,000 people on lawnsite? I think a good 1000 emails will get them to look into the matter

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 06:59 PM
Tony,

Sounds like maybe they're pulling too many cfm of air through the radiator.

Back to my question from a previous post....what powers this cooling fan?


Sorry mate, overlooked your question.

The fan is like a car set up, only facing backwards. from the early pics, open the hood you see the oil cooler and radiator, behind the radiator is the engine powered fan sucking in and blowing over engine.

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 07:11 PM
Thanks KDC,

it would not be possible to run this machine without the hood, the radiator would choke in seconds. thought of that lol. it does look mean without it lol.

I am going to a green industry expo in Brisbane in the morning, nice little 5-6 hour drive lol, the j.d rep is 'supposed' to be there, I will print out pics and deliver them personally, then I know I have done all I can do, as he won't reply to my emails.

TLS
10-11-2005, 07:26 PM
Is it a constant ON fan or viscous clutch like a car?

Too bad they cant just clutch it with an electric clutch (like your old Toro PTO clutch). This way you or it can cycle it on/off.

With it off, the debris should just fall off, right?

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 07:30 PM
yeah, the fan is always on, powered direct from engine.

debris does just fall off when fan is off yes.

this would be why Hustler uses 2 auto reverse fans instead of an always on fan....but I can't say more about that....except to say it would not work on the deere.

TLS
10-11-2005, 07:34 PM
Why wouldn't an electric fan work?

Or like what I described....a way to momentarily switch the engine driven fan OFF....let the debris blow/fall off and then switch back on.

They (JD) will have to do something along these lines. They certainly aren't going to give you another (next years model) mower.

TLS
10-11-2005, 07:35 PM
Go out and snap a few more pics of the fan area, the hood area, and any other areas that look cool. I really like this mower, and my dealer doesn't have one.

valleylawn79
10-11-2005, 07:37 PM
BIG t; I'M SORRY YOU ARE GOING THRU THAT BULLS#$% MATE. THEY SHOULD SWAP THE DECK TO A SIDE IF THAT WOULD HELP YOU; ALTHOUGH YOU WANTED REAR FOR YOUR PARKS AND SAFETY REASONS HUH? THEY SHOULD WORK WITH YOU ON THIS. I RESPECTED DEERE UNTIL NOW; IF THEY DON'T MAKE GOOD ON THIS I WILL NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THEM IN THE FUTURE.

TLS
10-11-2005, 07:41 PM
My old JD F-935 radiator screen (similar material to yours) would get covered in debris when the dandilions went to seed and other dry conditions. Just a quick wipe with your hand cleared them, and when the engine was OFF, they fell off the screen. I would and still do today, blow off my machines after every lawn.

What I'm getting at is: Even the "behind the seat" screens cloged.

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 07:47 PM
=The electric fans.... I can't say publically, lets just say I know a guy with this system and it wasn't without problems, I can't say more as the company he bought from is Fantastic and has got a fix on the way over right now, unlike deere this company works with clients. The company makes yellow, fast mowers, that's all I can say :)


=a way to momentarily switch the engine driven fan OFF....let the debris blow/fall off and then switch back on.

This would be a great idea, it would work well. Even idling down over rough ground will dislodge the debris if blades are off.

=They certainly aren't going to give you another (next years model) mower.


Bummer LOL!

I bet the next model has a rear like the 1600 series wams, breaths from the top, not rear.

And I bet my model with rear discharge will start getting the upgrades, but current machines like mine won't as it is used.

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 07:54 PM
BIG t; I'M SORRY YOU ARE GOING THRU THAT BULLS#$% MATE. THEY SHOULD SWAP THE DECK TO A SIDE IF THAT WOULD HELP YOU; ALTHOUGH YOU WANTED REAR FOR YOUR PARKS AND SAFETY REASONS HUH? THEY SHOULD WORK WITH YOU ON THIS. I RESPECTED DEERE UNTIL NOW; IF THEY DON'T MAKE GOOD ON THIS I WILL NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THEM IN THE FUTURE.


G'Day ole Mate!

I can't go back to side discharge, I've fallen in love with RD productivity and have changed my biz direction. I chase commercial and government work, rear discharge is the current flavour.lol.


It dawned on me before, it is strange this company hasn't directly contacted me....I'm wandering just how much my dealer is passing on.....or is he hoping the problem will just go away....hmmmmmm, has 2 years warrantee, 2 years goes fast. The time I get a fix the mower will be out of warrantee and I'll be stuck with it as it is.

TLS
10-11-2005, 08:03 PM
https://groundscare.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/groundscare.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php?p_sid=2ZAC5ORh&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD02OSZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y 9JnBfcGFnZT0x

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 08:15 PM
another thing is.....have I just got a faulty hood?

and, considering that....why hasn't deere sent another up for me to try?

be like me telling the president of deere, every 5 minutes on your big flash fancy car you must stop it and let it cool....would he be happy?

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 08:23 PM
https://groundscare.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/groundscare.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php?p_sid=2ZAC5ORh&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD02OSZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y 9JnBfcGFnZT0x



I tried this way 1st, this is where I was told to talk to deere australia as they are not there to help international clients.

they absolutly refused to help, or answer questions, even denied my mower existed!

I kept the emails....bloody comical!

the person was a shocker, and eventually when things went hot, another goose just forwarded my comminication to deere here, who called me to say shut up and they would help in 4 days.....never did hear back.

only communication from deere I've had since is that if I mess with the mower they will cancel warrantee.

I did ask recently how long my exact deck design re baffling has been around, they said they make great mowers and decks that are proven, and similar decks are on outfronts, didn't answer my question, I re asked, no reply.

I was only trying to find out if my deck design is new, as deere has a few different rear discharge deck designs....I thought it was a simple question.

Thanks for the link, but it is hopeless going down that path, been there, tried that lol.:help:

Restrorob
10-11-2005, 08:33 PM
https://groundscare.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/groundscare.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php?p_sid=2ZAC5ORh&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD02OSZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y 9JnBfcGFnZT0x

I don't know if it would help, But it damn sure wouldn't hurt if WE all sent links of this thread to them ! Wouldn't you think they would get tired of getting them and get off their :sleeping: asses ?

Don't know about you guys, But I just did :cool2:

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 08:52 PM
Thank you, anything is better than nothing.

Especially when all my dealer can say is they have reported the problems and supplied pics, Deere is aware and looking into it.

no updates after several requests from me....

I think being as these aren't selling well, that the problem isn't big enough to fix.....just my feeling at this point.

business is about communication as well as production, shame there wasn't communication from deere.

You watch, they will read this, pick everything out that they can about me and probably sue me for talking about them here, even though I've tried to get them to help in normal ways. Lucky I have good pics and this thread has stayed accurate and nothing has been put out of proportion. pics show it all....

True Cut Lawn Maintenance
10-11-2005, 08:56 PM
Tony, i can only speak from Agricultural experience (have yet to own a deere that ive actually used to mow with, only to plow snow)

just imagine if that mower was a $200,000.00 combine with another 100,000 in headers.

just tryin to keep ya up man, id keep bustin at em till they adress the problem, sposedly the new deere lineup comes out sometime this month, i think its around the middle of the month that they invite all the salesmen to florida for a few days to do this

will pass along anything i find out, these problems havent driven me away yet

i was born with green and yellow in my body

TLS
10-11-2005, 08:57 PM
How about it Tony.....got any other pics of the mower. Would like to see other parts.....deck drive, operator controls, etc.

They had rear discharge 60"decks back in the '80s on the F-series.....I'll have to dig for a pic. It wouldn't show the underside though, just a B&W top view.

True Cut Lawn Maintenance
10-11-2005, 09:01 PM
i take it that they only offered it on the f-925?? ive got litterture around here from back then, ill have to take a look

TLS
10-11-2005, 09:06 PM
Found it....

They are pictured in a 1991 purchasing guide.

60" and 76" rear discharge. Lists the 76" as having a "Friction Disc" Blade drive?

They only picture the 60"

Looks nothing like Tony's.

I'll see if I can scan the pages.

Tonyr
10-11-2005, 09:11 PM
I've gotta go out and earn a few bucks and see how many times this thing stops on this vacant acreage block, I'll get pics later on for ya.

please list particular areas you want to see so I know what to aim the camera at lol, as there is quite a bit of machine here.

I'll post the pics this arvo, so....you'll see them in the morning or later in your evening. I'm about 10-12 hours approx ahead of some of yas I think...it is 10.10am, now, wednesday.

TLS
10-11-2005, 09:13 PM
Happy HUMP day then!!!! Yeah, it's 8:10PM here on TUESDAY!!!

True Cut Lawn Maintenance
10-11-2005, 09:13 PM
its 7:15 or so here in Indiana

True Cut Lawn Maintenance
10-11-2005, 09:17 PM
Hey TLS ive got a peice of litterture from year 2000 that shows from the 911- all the way up to the 1600 WAM side and rear are available in 60-76 inch cutting widths but there are no pictures that i can find

TLS
10-11-2005, 09:20 PM
All my literature is from 1986 to the mid 90's

True Cut Lawn Maintenance
10-11-2005, 09:22 PM
http://www.deere.com/en_US/govsales/purchaseguide/PDFs/74_75.pdf

theres a link to the 01 purchasing guide



ive got some litterture from the 80's but most of mine (all 5 file boxes worth, is from about 1989-present date, agricultural, consumer, comercial and construction)

TLS
10-11-2005, 09:30 PM
Hopefully I did this right...

True Cut Lawn Maintenance
10-11-2005, 09:32 PM
looks like they took a normal deck, redesigned it very little cut the back off and had at it

TLS
10-11-2005, 09:32 PM
Here is the other side of the page.....

TLS
10-11-2005, 09:35 PM
I do remember my dealer telling me that they never did cut well. At least I would never be happy with the cut. And I HATED the cut the GOOD SD decks were giving!

TLS
10-11-2005, 09:43 PM
Joe, that PDF link you gave shows pics of both the 60" and 76" rear discharge.

True Cut Lawn Maintenance
10-11-2005, 09:56 PM
Thats what my litterture shows, i dont know if they are still offered or not

i dont think deere offers the F series any longer

TLS
10-11-2005, 10:59 PM
I'll get pics later on for ya.

please list particular areas you want to see so I know what to aim the camera at lol, as there is quite a bit of machine here.

I'll post the pics this arvo, so....you'll see them in the morning or later in your evening.

Here ya go Tony...

Hydro pump area
Deck driveshaft areas
Deck Foot lift
Deck height setting
A shot under the seat

Whatever else is "different" than most.

Thanks

Up North
10-11-2005, 11:07 PM
Tony ol' Mate,
What does your attorney friend say about taking the dang thing back to the dealer with a letter stating you have a defective product and demand your money back? I'd attach a portfolio containing documentation of all emails, conversations, etc. that you've had with the dealer, and JD, for proof of a defective product and "no-action" on their end. It's defective whichever way you look at it. It's a mower, mowers cut grass, whether it's alive and green or brown and dead, it cuts grass. Your machine doesn't work as it should and apparently you have documentation that JD even agrees there is a problem. At this point, I wouldn't want to own a machine from a company that can't even return a simple phone call or email and acts as if you don't exist. JD is losing a lot of respect over this deal, but unfortunately, they are so big it's probably no big deal to them. Pretty poor way to run a company IMO.

Buck

True Cut Lawn Maintenance
10-11-2005, 11:12 PM
the consumer/commercial end has suffered but the Agricultural side is flurishing, go look at the new stuff they have just came out with its amazing to say the least

Envy Lawn Service
10-11-2005, 11:18 PM
Tony,

As I've said before, no WorkTunes for me on the job. I prefer to allow my mind to occupy itself when I'm cruzing along on the Z. So today, I decided my topic for though for today was to solve Tony's problem...

So since your problem is mearly the product of what's really wrong with the design, I decided to try and figure out what is really wrong. The 997 comes with the rear discharge deck. So to blame any part of this on the rear discharge deck just simply is not acceptable. So I crossed that out.

After a great deal of thought... this is my theory. The problem with this unit is there is simply too much vacuum created by the cooling system. Too aggressive of a fan, too little intake surface area and just a poorly designed engine bay. Therefore, your entire grill area is acting just like a moster air cleaner... excessive CFM.

So anything you can do to reduce this vacuum will help. So if there is any interal cowling you can remove, such as any inside the hood that makes a compartment and seals up to the outer face of the radiator to direct air. Also Tony, contrary to your current belief... just sitting the hood off for now would help.

I believe what is happening Tony is something more that you can't see while you are on the mower operating it. What I'm betting is that the fan is drawing air in through the grill screen very forcefully, and with this hood and engine bay design, once it's up to full air cycle, this are has nowhere to go but down along the sides, at basically the same force.

So in essence, what you have going on here is your mower is acting like a blower... and unfortunately a vacuum also. The forced air coming down out of the engine bay is forcing all manor of debris airborne, and as the grill passes right over that, of course it sucks some onto the screen.... increasing the vacuum with each media that is clogged...

So for now, set that hood off... they can never prove you did... and make yourself a home-made pre-screen for the radiator... if it proves to even need one with the hood off. Do that for the time being while Deere drags their feet and has a circle jerk about what to do.

I'll re-engineer this hood and make it work... and there is a guy here that I believe can generate and post some great computer models for me...

Envy Lawn Service
10-11-2005, 11:22 PM
Tony ol' Mate,
What does your attorney friend say about taking the dang thing back to the dealer with a letter stating you have a defective product and demand your money back? I'd attach a portfolio containing documentation of all emails, conversations, etc. that you've had with the dealer, and JD, for proof of a defective product and "no-action" on their end. It's defective whichever way you look at it. It's a mower, mowers cut grass, whether it's alive and green or brown and dead, it cuts grass. Your machine doesn't work as it should and apparently you have documentation that JD even agrees there is a problem. At this point, I wouldn't want to own a machine from a company that can't even return a simple phone call or email and acts as if you don't exist. JD is losing a lot of respect over this deal, but unfortunately, they are so big it's probably no big deal to them. Pretty poor way to run a company IMO.

Buck

Good post Buck... that was my earlier sentiments also...
They can't just drag their feet like this and string Tony on...
Although many of these companies have this down to an art, and practice it well.
They know most people just go away.

Yazoo/Kees-Husqvarna is another that does business this way....

Envy Lawn Service
10-11-2005, 11:41 PM
Just to be sure I have your attention here Tony, read this part again and look at this picture...

What I'm betting is that the fan is drawing air in through the grill screen very forcefully, and with this hood and engine bay design, once it's up to full air cycle, this are has nowhere to go but down along the sides, at basically the same force.

So in essence, what you have going on here is your mower is acting like a blower... and unfortunately a vacuum also. The forced air coming down out of the engine bay is forcing all manor of debris airborne, and as the grill passes right over that, of course it sucks some onto the screen.... increasing the vacuum with each media that is clogged....

Notice the black piece of airborne debris... and where the grass is starting to collect.
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=40060&d=1121894578

Envy Lawn Service
10-12-2005, 12:34 AM
Here John Deere... I designed this for free too... and it took all of a few minutes.

Step #1 - Install lower CFM fan housing if possible.

Step #2 - Increase intake surface area and relocate pretty stickers.

Step #3 - Relocate hot air exhaust to top side and remedy all down flow exhaust.

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 01:42 AM
I just got back from those jobs, you are 100% right Envy, as you say is exactly how it is. The fan has aggressive cowling around it, sucks through that radiator like a big blower/ suction thingy.

I said earlier I think, it will hold a towel in place, so it really sucks the air in.

Your pic Envy.....go and patient that NOW!! I LOVE IT!!

I Want one just like that, great work!

The points you raised are spot on, your solution I think is spot on.....shame the deere fellas can't think like you.


I will do tests next week with the radiator fan cowling off, be interesting.

Deere has this cowling thing inside the rear of the hood inside of the screen, like a big plastic flange around the edge of the screen, on the left it has a hole and the air intake for engine fits up against it....what I'm saying is the engine sucks from the space just inside the screen, when the screen blocks, air intake to engine is obviously reduced. stupid idea.

Eventually I want to redirect the air intake pipe up to behind/ beside the seat and put a pre cleaner on it, while it will stuff warrantee, it will be more dust able, and aussie mowing is dusty.

I'll go and get those pics as soon as I finish lunch....

Envy Lawn Service
10-12-2005, 02:10 AM
I had a hunch that assembly was there.
Pull those guts from inside the rear of the hood then if you can.
This will reduce the vacuum to the rear screen/grill which should help some.

The idea Deere had with this was to only allow the fan to draw pre-screened air into the radiator... but likely took it too far by mating this up with that particular fan. So by removing the internal cowling, you may pick up some dirty air occasionally, but it would be better than where you are now... and probably not highly likely.

The current down-draft should push away the dirty air... couple that with less vaccuum on the screen... and the fact the screen can also now act as a two-way screen without the cowling... well I think you have a high chance of being in better shape with the mower until Deere gets off there arse and gets to recalling and updating hoods...

As for your air intake, notice my side screens... which would allow for it to be piped straight sideways to draw cool pre-screened air from the side screen. Or it could top draw.

As for the top screen for exhaust air... The good points are that hot air rises anyways.... top venting is more effective... keeps heat off the grass... and exhaust CFM away from the ground where debris is.... The down side is... not a dry roof over the engine.


On a total side note... top draw cooling like eXmark has seems to do pretty well... but I figure green leaves and so forth stick on it when doing lawns with trees, just like they stick on top of my vertical A/C Kawasaki grill... and both of my hydro coolers.

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 02:12 AM
Tony ol' Mate,
What does your attorney friend say about taking the dang thing back to the dealer with a letter stating you have a defective product and demand your money back? I'd attach a portfolio containing documentation of all emails, conversations, etc. that you've had with the dealer, and JD, for proof of a defective product and "no-action" on their end. It's defective whichever way you look at it. It's a mower, mowers cut grass, whether it's alive and green or brown and dead, it cuts grass. Your machine doesn't work as it should and apparently you have documentation that JD even agrees there is a problem. At this point, I wouldn't want to own a machine from a company that can't even return a simple phone call or email and acts as if you don't exist. JD is losing a lot of respect over this deal, but unfortunately, they are so big it's probably no big deal to them. Pretty poor way to run a company IMO.

Buck


I hear ya.

Believe me, this attorney is no friend, after he billed me for so much for so little, I dumped his account.

If I engaged a legal eagle and deere said "Ok, he is another 997" and nothing is gained.

If they say " what other similar priced mower do you want to swap for?"
There is none.....front mounts are too big for me, and I am geared to run rear discharge only.

So, swapping etc, buying back even....I need my mower fixed, there is no other that can do better, I demoed the only other ZTR rear discharge, and the deere clearly suits me better, plus this 'other' mower has the same issues which this other company quickly made a fix for. as said earlier...

going back to side discharge is not an option.


bloody wind has picked up again, bad weather lately, dry, windy, lots of bush fires, buggerall work on....scary.

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 02:23 AM
I just sent another email to dealer asking him to squeeze deere for an update as this thing was not good today.

I wander if deere, providing they fix my mower and not just put the new hoods on newer models not yet shipped, whether they would send a new hood, or exchange my crap one for the new one?

See, while the screen clogs up that's one bad thing....
but, the fact they put a defective seal between my radiator and hood duct thing means it sucks in stuff from outside the hood, that's where the big chaf comes from, I am not allowed to try to repair this.

but, geeeze, surely, a simple job like this the mechanics could do?

10 min job, new foam seal.....

Nup!

Envy Lawn Service
10-12-2005, 02:49 AM
The hood should be recalled as defective, end of story.
So you should get a new hood free of charge that will facilitate normal operation.

As for the radiator seal... your dealer should have already fixed that. I believe he is jerking you around. On that deal, I bet what happens is that is does suck are there where it's messed up.... but does not cause much of a problem until the screen clogs... and vaccuum is greatly increased at the opening... Heck it's even possible that a clogged screen caused that... something's gotta give somewhere when suction is that high. But anyways, that seal should have been of quality high temp rubber anyways... not foam.

But essentially what I was getting at with my previous post in regard to this is that by removing that internal cowling, vaccuum should be reduced to a point where the radiator should not bottom feed for air and suck up trash. And without the cowling in place making a separate compartment, the rear screen should be able to free breath on intake air... and also act two-way as an air entry and exit.... which should aid two-way in keeping the screen clean... also reducing cabin pressure that causes high CFM down flow that disturb so much trash below the mower, making it airborne.

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 03:22 AM
Just spoke to the mechanic,

he just heard back from Deere.

Deere have read this thread! Ha Ha, so everyone knows where everyone stands.

So....they have some ideas to try, I cannot post pics of this as it is a test deal, so please understand I am now happy to know things are moving, and reassured that deere won't leave me hanging.

I will post pics of my mower now, the 'fix' is designed here but under usa specs I think, but I can't show you, should be a goer in a week or 2.

The mechanic at my dealer has been onto deere approx 2 times a week since the start, I believe him, I guess things just take time and am glad to know my dealer has been working hard for me.

The mechanic, who had to read all of this today to see what is ruffling me, poor bugger, without naming him, Thank You.


OK, here are some pics.

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 03:30 AM
this one is the control panel.

dusty.....well, ya didn't think I'd clean it for yas did yas LOL!

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 03:32 AM
under the seat, hydro system lower left, engine flywheel to the right.

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 03:33 AM
right side engine bay...

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 03:35 AM
left side engine bay.......

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 03:37 AM
radiator and hydro oil cooler.

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 03:38 AM
front of radiator, shows tight cowling around fan.

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 03:40 AM
weird angle, trying to show the deere ducting inside of the hood, the radiator is meant to seal against this. Note the hole on the right in the ducting...this is where the engine air is sucked in. hmmmmmmm

btw, that is being fixed next week too!

True Cut Lawn Maintenance
10-12-2005, 03:43 AM
Tony

looks like that damn cowling is half the problem, hope your fix works and glad to know that we did do somthing here


still bleeding that green and yellow

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 03:43 AM
a better shot of where the air intake hose fits against the ducting.

True Cut Lawn Maintenance
10-12-2005, 03:44 AM
Tony

im very curious to see the mower deck and how the opening is structured for the r/d

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 03:44 AM
handsome looking thing isn't it?

SHREK!

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 03:46 AM
Ooops.............

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 03:47 AM
Offset Front End Gives More Trim Side On The Left, Very Clever.

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 03:53 AM
YEP, deere definetly saw and read this thread, and told the mechanic to read and fix problem as obviously they now care about poor communications with clients troubles.

funny how they didn't appear to care before they saw this thread lol.

Anyway, I'm not gunna bag em, I am going to be positive about this and hope everything can smooth out.

If my problems can be fixed I'll be very happy, the rest of the machine is great!

Daresay my dealer and mechanic won't be impressed I aired everything here, but I felt I had no choice, and I didn't identify anyone so at least I can't be shot for that.

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 04:36 AM
OK, Last few.....

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 04:37 AM
............................

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 04:38 AM
.............................

Tonyr
10-12-2005, 04:47 AM
last one, left under side of deck.

TLS
10-12-2005, 09:52 AM
under the seat, hydro system lower left, engine flywheel to the right.

So, it has one intregal pump, but is the PTO hydraulic driven or mechanically? I see the hose from the PTO up to the Hydraulic resivoir, so I was wondering if it isn't a hydro motor?

Although a shaft drive is sometimes better than a long mule drive, I remember back to the problems I had with my F-935's. The driveshafts were a BIG wear item and contributed to a lot of vibration. Does your slip joint have any play in it yet after ???? hrs?


As far as the air intake goes, I don't think its all that bad of a design....until the entire screen gets plugged. My F-935 was similar....sucking in through a side screen. When all is out of warranty(I'd do it right now), I'd turn the air cleaner housing and route the intake hose through a nice grommeted hole in the firewall and install a turbinator right behind your seat.


If John Deere is reading this....MAKE THEM SHORTER!!!(The overall length of the unit) They're 10+" longer than the competition! Your going to run into contractors that used to fit X number of ZTR's on a trailer, and now with the 997's they cant. 10" adds up quick!


Hopefully the fact that some of us reached out to JD Stateside, will contribute to a speedy resolution for you!

TLS
10-12-2005, 09:56 AM
Tony,

Sorry, thanks a LOT for the pics. Nice machine you have there!

Up North
10-12-2005, 11:03 AM
Just spoke to the mechanic,

he just heard back from Deere.

Deere have read this thread! Ha Ha, so everyone knows where everyone stands.

So....they have some ideas to try, I cannot post pics of this as it is a test deal, so please understand I am now happy to know things are moving, and reassured that deere won't leave me hanging.

I will post pics of my mower now, the 'fix' is designed here but under usa specs I think, but I can't show you, should be a goer in a week or 2.

The mechanic at my dealer has been onto deere approx 2 times a week since the start, I believe him, I guess things just take time and am glad to know my dealer has been working hard for me.

The mechanic, who had to read all of this today to see what is ruffling me, poor bugger, without naming him, Thank You.


OK, here are some pics.

Good! Glad to hear you finally are seeing some action. Like I said earlier, a lot of equipment purchases are made based on what our members have experienced...and in this case that would not have been good for JD.

Hope all goes well Tony, looks like you have a nice machine, they just need to get the kinks worked out of her. And if they can't do it, I'm sure my Moose would gladly help her out....:laugh:

Buck

kc2006
10-12-2005, 11:40 AM
Good to see they're doing something about it. Tony, if you need me to boycott them in the future let me know :D

heather lawn sp
10-12-2005, 05:31 PM
Tony
Ross from Ontario Canada again. Long time no hear. On a slightly different discussion noticed both the rad bottle and the hydraulic tank are overflowing (as seen by the dirt around them). We don't overheat but we do blow through rad fluid at a tremendous rate. Since you now have their undivided attention you might throw this in the mix of beef's with the 997, and see where they stand.

Tonyr
10-13-2005, 04:38 AM
Hi everyone, just got back from a big drive to the city, a green industry expo.

Though the expo wasn't quite as big as I'd hoped, what was there was great, new Ferris, NICE!

All the major brands...

Toro, huge, best display, fantastic display.

Here is the great bit....over at the deere display....I met a deere sales/tech support 'rep', plus other dealers, I told them EVERYTHING.

All I can say is before I left he called deere australia and they started unpacking a new machine to get specs etc from, They promised my machine will be fixed, their demo 997 rear discharge does not clog!

Without saying too much that can come back to bite me, all I can say is, they believe my situation is shocking and will not continue, and I will be treated like a valued deere client, my machine will get the legendary deere attention, issues like the present will not lag out again.

OK, I heard the right words, now I'm keen to see how much weight they have.

To be honest, I'm very much at the point now knowing their demo unit does not have the problems that they should give me a new machine properly set up, not fix mine, shouldn't have to go through this to get a defective machine fixed, it should be replaced.

If I'm not happy with the 'fixes' to mine I am going to discuss this, or at very least ask they bring their demo machine down and run it beside mine and compare notes, and I keep the better performer.

Am I rude thinking they should replace my defective mower?

Or should I be just happy that it is going to have mods done to make it work?

Tonyr
10-13-2005, 04:45 AM
So, it has one intregal pump, but is the PTO hydraulic driven or mechanically? I see the hose from the PTO up to the Hydraulic resivoir, so I was wondering if it isn't a hydro motor?

Although a shaft drive is sometimes better than a long mule drive, I remember back to the problems I had with my F-935's. The driveshafts were a BIG wear item and contributed to a lot of vibration. Does your slip joint have any play in it yet after ???? hrs?

===========

TLS

The unit has 1 pump, and a wheel motor at each wheel like most ztr's....

the pto is hydro drive.

the shaft is smooth, engage etc, smooth, not a single sound, you can't hear the transmission, pto even working. top points there, these are smooth to opperate!

done only 76 hours, and no wear signs.

these units are top notch, just mine has some issues, but as I now know it isn't the whole line, only mine, so feel confident tht they aren't builting crap, mine was just the lemon of the day I guess. lol.

Mickhippy
10-13-2005, 06:11 AM
Hustler's stand was better! Better colours too! All GOLD! heeee

Tonyr
10-13-2005, 06:45 AM
yep, Hustler and Toro had great stands/displays, no doubts there.

big day....never did buy that trimmer head! lol.

Mickhippy
10-13-2005, 06:51 AM
I didnt buy a thing! Pretty happy about that! heee

You/family must be buggered. Im tired and I only got up at 6.45.

Was looking like was gonna rain earlier, bloody stuff's dried up!

Tonyr
10-13-2005, 07:03 AM
yeah mate, up at 3.00am, left 3.30, one stop for breaky, glad I didn't have to drive the cruiser, the zippy little dual cab auto was great.

had a few beers, getting a bit tired now, gunna crash soon....beer is too good!

pity Ferris doesn't have a bigger presence here, and also Grasshopper, good units! Still reckon grasshopper needs to get a 30 plus hp diesel though if in that market to compete with hustler, deere , ferris etc.

Mickhippy
10-13-2005, 07:11 AM
Grasshopper 28hp Kub... $20k!
JD 31hp Yanmar... $32k!

3hp aint worth $12k. 28 kubota is probably rated better than Yanmar 31 anyway! This is not the place for this topic anyway. I am right though, been right about most things lately! heeeee

Later

Tonyr
10-13-2005, 07:27 AM
haaaaaa ya plonka, ok, I'll give ya that one! lol.

ya right though. again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


arrrggghhhhhhhhhh!

for the money, wow, what a great price!

egbaker
10-13-2005, 08:09 PM
Tonyr,

If you plan to keep the machine I would suggest doing some sort of modification to reduce this problem.
If you can find a comercial piping supply buy a sheet or part roll of PVC insulated pipe covering. I have some in white, it is a PVC sheet about 1/32" thick and comes in about 48" high by about 20 foot rolls. See if you can buy a small piece. It cuts with a pair of good shears.

Then make a large inverted 1/2 funnel shaped duct with it. Try to form it around the back of the deer so that it sucks air from above the engine. Temporarily duct tape the sides and bottom to seal around the Deer filter in a sort of "U" shape. If it works then you might be able to fabricate a better one and put adhesive velcro (or snaps, etc) around as a seal to be able to remove it to clean the screen.

I suspect that the clogging of the filter makes the fan draw air through the internal seal (inside the shroud) due to the suction. That results in the grass around the radiator inside.

Then make an appropriate comment about this Deer product's problem in nice bold letters on the outside of the shroud so that others might see what a poor design this is. Take a photo and send it to Deer Corp. saying that you will be driving around many, many lawns with this on your mower until Deer decides to fix the problem.

Good luck with it. Gene B., Princeton, NJ

Precision
10-13-2005, 08:55 PM
TonyR.

I emailed Deere on your behalf and this is what they had to say.\

Dear Mr. Bibby:

Thank you for contacting our Web site.

Your message has been forwarded to our Australian branch. The selling dealer has been contacted and the branch is working with the dealer to address these concerns. An area John Deere Representative will also visit the unit early next week.

If we can be of further assistance, please call the Customer Contact Center at 1-800-537-8233. Our center is open 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. EST, Monday - Friday and 9:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m. EST, Saturday.

Thank you,
Kim R.
John Deere Customer Contact Center

Don't know if my email helped, but just trying to do my bit for the community.

Bunton Guy
10-13-2005, 08:56 PM
its more than likely due to the rear discharge chute...its sucking the clippings before they hit the ground. anything airborne is going to hit the screen.

Tonyr
10-13-2005, 09:18 PM
TonyR.

I emailed Deere on your behalf and this is what they had to say.\

Dear Mr. Bibby:

Thank you for contacting our Web site.

Your message has been forwarded to our Australian branch. The selling dealer has been contacted and the branch is working with the dealer to address these concerns. An area John Deere Representative will also visit the unit early next week.

If we can be of further assistance, please call the Customer Contact Center at 1-800-537-8233. Our center is open 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. EST, Monday - Friday and 9:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m. EST, Saturday.

Thank you,
Kim R.
John Deere Customer Contact Center

Don't know if my email helped, but just trying to do my bit for the community.


Thanks mate!

I know Deere has received several emails from members here, they read this thread and got onto my dealer and he has been told to read it, they then called me the next day to say Deere USA is sending parts over to modify the problem area, be here Tuesday next week.

I spoke directly to a Deere representative, tech guy at an expo yesterday, everything is out in the open, he is going to make sure personally my deere is running as it should.

He is sending a rep up early next week to see the mower/me....

I will be without the mower for at least a week, I have parks to mow......I asked nicely if they could lend me their demo unit for a week so I could honour my contracts and also this would be a good way to see how a properly running unit performs.

I feel if they cannot get my mower running properly, they should replace it.....actually I feel at this time they should simply replace it as it never worked well, problematic, so to set everything right, replace it and renew my confidence in this company.

I've hinted.....the ball is in their court.

They say the demo unit does not clog, yet mine is getting bits and pieces added to make it work.....I'd prefer to own a good working mower than a mower with bits added that only make it as good as a standard one does....

S man
10-13-2005, 09:19 PM
I'd hire a midget to sit on the back with a whisk broom. :) :rolleyes:

Good idea. Just make sure he doesn't fall off.

Envy Lawn Service
10-13-2005, 10:47 PM
Thanks mate!

I know Deere has received several emails from members here, they read this thread and got onto my dealer and he has been told to read it, they then called me the next day to say Deere USA is sending parts over to modify the problem area, be here Tuesday next week.

I spoke directly to a Deere representative, tech guy at an expo yesterday, everything is out in the open, he is going to make sure personally my deere is running as it should.

He is sending a rep up early next week to see the mower/me....

I will be without the mower for at least a week, I have parks to mow......I asked nicely if they could lend me their demo unit for a week so I could honour my contracts and also this would be a good way to see how a properly running unit performs.

I feel if they cannot get my mower running properly, they should replace it.....actually I feel at this time they should simply replace it as it never worked well, problematic, so to set everything right, replace it and renew my confidence in this company.

I've hinted.....the ball is in their court.

They say the demo unit does not clog, yet mine is getting bits and pieces added to make it work.....I'd prefer to own a good working mower than a mower with bits added that only make it as good as a standard one does....

I feel your pain as I have been there on multiple occasions with multiple problems. I felt the same.

You know what the fixes are I assume... and if you feel comfortable with those... a 'fix' would be OK. But something you feel is a non-standard cobble-patch... well now that's a different matter.

Now, many will disagree with me, including JD reps no doubt. But those that do disagree have not walked a mile in our shoes. You tend to be a lot more sensitive to what is going on when it's your investment capital, your new machine, and it is you that will have to live with what is being done.... and if you doubt it or feel it is sub-standard in any way.... then it is you that has this sour feeling that will continue to eat away at you so long as you own it.

So it is my personal opinion, that when there is this much money involved, the machine is a new as this one is... and the ordeal has gone on as long as this has.... well then to me it's just time to draw the line and cut to the chase.... especially given the intended purpose of commercial mowers. So here is my stance on this...

Taking everything I just said into consideration, anything less than the very best they have to offer you for the money invested is not a reasonable solution.


Furthermore, to fix this mower on your time is not a professional end result to their falling down on the job. You have had to live with it 'as is' for a long time already. Plus if it is going to be down a whole week for the fix, they gotta step to the plate and do the honorable thing... provide you with an equal unit that performs properly.

So I have to ask myself, what is the sense of all this from either party's standpoint???... And frankly, I can't see any. I can't see where this is even the cost effective option for John Deere.

As long as this has already gone on, and no more use than your mower has seen, I think the most sensible thing Deere could do is just have you come in and swap yours out for one of the new ones that does not clog. Instand solution and satisfaction for the end user.

After all, come on... they are gonna have to give you one to use for a week anyways, and once yours is done, you will be returning a used mower anyways and picking up your old one fixed (and what if the fix falls short of it?).

It just makes more sense in every way to just swap it out. Then they can take your old one and do the 'fix' or swap it to a side discharge deck in minutes and re-sell it as refurbished or a demo... Point being, they square up with you instantly and provide you with what you thought you were buying in the first place... and do what they wish with the old one on their own time, not yours.

The other way of doing it just seems pointless and non-cost effective.

Tonyr
10-13-2005, 11:16 PM
Thanks mate, I'm glad you see it like I do, and after all of this time I think 'fixes' are past due, a replacement is best.

I can't tell you about the mods, i have to sign a confidentiality agreement to keep it secret.

what I can say is it is a few things that have been suggested in the threads about my saga, nothing new, no new hood design, it's all add on stuff....

True Cut Lawn Maintenance
10-13-2005, 11:35 PM
i totally agree, im having trouble still with my stihl trimmer and i know its only 200 bucks but i paid cash for it and i expect it to work trouble free longer than 3 months the thing has maybe been used a total of 10-15 hours and that would be stretching it a lot, they said they couldnt find where its leaking gas from but the damn thing left a nice puddle in the bed of the truck again today :angry: :realmad: i feel like i should be able to say fix it or give me a new one

Tonyr
12-03-2005, 12:03 AM
As a new deere thread is around I thought I'd bump this back up a bit for anyone interested...

Lawn Masters
12-03-2005, 02:01 AM
Tony, how are you doin on this problem? any solutions yet?

Tonyr
12-03-2005, 02:55 AM
nah mate, deere never did have those all imprtant long awaited parts, they lied, or to put it this way, they had my dealer lie for for them is more accurate.

There is no parts, will not be any parts, deere have wiped their hands of me and this machine, they have not helped one bit, spose they see this as a victory getting out of standing by their prodct with me, save themselves a few dollars....

Many guys have had no probs with deere or their products and will stand by deere, and are more comfortable saying I mis use the mower etc and that if I used the mower for it's intended purpose it would be ok, but I'm mostly mowing well maintained bermuda grass parks with it, this is not being used as a bush hog as some are suggesting that is what I'm doing.

I can't blame people for defending a brand they are loyal to, but I bet if these same people were in my situation and knew the full story they would feel the same.

So, yeah...there is no fix or intention to fix my mower by deere corp.

PMLAWN
12-03-2005, 04:41 AM
nah mate, deere never did have those all imprtant long awaited parts, they lied, or to put it this way, they had my dealer lie for for them is more accurate.

So, yeah...there is no fix or intention to fix my mower by deere corp.

Sorry to hear that mate.
Really s##ks to buy what you believe to be a good product and than get the shaft from the company.
Don't have any green products now but will keep this in mind in the future.
I do a lot of business with their "Landscapes" division. Thinking their customer service runs thru the company so maybe I look at other suppliers.

What I believe you need to do is go out and buy TVs for all the big wigs in the company as they must not have them. Otherwise they would have been watching the news lately and seen the problems that GM is having. That was caused by not answering the customers needs. Maybe they could learn something.
Or as an investor we now know the future and will avoid green stock.

Read between the lines DEERE!

stuie
12-03-2005, 09:30 PM
How is the mower coping in the summer heat Tony?

Tonyr
12-03-2005, 10:23 PM
haven't mowed much last few weeks Stuie, been in and out of hospital, just got back Friday evening from Brisbane hospital for a week, previous week in for a couple of days, week previous to that 2 days in intensive care.

I have mowed between hospital visits, damn things clogs up and heats up too much, not worth the dramas that mower, I've lost count how often in easy mowing it plays up, damn machine is a joke, fairdinkum, I've had it die on normal reg. cut lawns! on my park job.....just cutting off couch/bermuda seed heads, easy as, is dies in 10 mins.....if damp if obviously runs for a couple of hours, but will clog n stop, every time.

dunno what to do.....can't sell it, next owner will only have same problems, it isn't worth keeping.....I'll talk to fair trading this week, this simply is turning into a big joke...on me!

PrecisionLawnsInc
12-04-2005, 03:23 AM
why dont you look into puting a side discharge deck on the mower... if the grass is blown away from the mower they shouldnt clog up the screen like that.

ty

Tonyr
12-04-2005, 05:17 AM
Yes I've thought of that.

BUT, they don't make the decks interchangable, they offer a 997 rear discharge OR a 997 Side discharge, Not a 997 that can have both decks, they want the client to buy 2 units if they need 2 deck types.

And why don't I just get one custom fitted?

Because last time I asked this was not an option, the price of a single deck is not worth it at this time, be better to buy another unit!

Believe me, I've thought of all options!

Er, don't go thinking the side discharge 997's don't clog the rear screen, THEY DO!!

The rear screen has so much suction it picks up everything airborne, and light debris airborne from side discharge does get sucked on, just not as quick!

NOTE EVERYONE: THIS IS NOT SOLELY A REAR DISCHARGE PROBLEM.

It is to do with the radiator sucking and stirring up dust, clippings, etc, etc, plus a flat screen not a corrugated screen, plus sucking air from behind for cooling and engine intake air is rediculous, that's why on later 1600 models they made a different rear section.

These units come out with a faulty, poor radiator seal, mine has been repaired.

This stops the radiator choking up, now we just need to stop the rear screen choking so often which chokes everything, thus heats it up.

All I want/need is some way to stop/severely reduce clippings from getting sucked up on that rear screen, I'm not after my own personalised signiture edition mower lol.

Tonyr
12-04-2005, 05:20 AM
Oh yeah, BTW, apparently a corrugated rear screen for my mower was made, then deere decided not to fit it.....

Rediculous.....they need this, they are just playing around!

Mickhippy
12-05-2005, 06:26 AM
I wish you'd try that security screen idea I told you about ages ago. It would just screw on to the screen thats already there. Just need a few spacers between the 2 screens and thats it! Techs may never know!

Sooooo hot today! 33'c Dead set frizzled! 4th day of Summer! Cant wait till it gets real hot!

Tonyr
12-05-2005, 06:54 AM
hot n humid, got deere bogged 2 times today, and toyota bogged once trying to pull deere out of job #1, fun never ends lol.

I know what ya mean about the screen idea, haven't forgotten......I'm not looking for fix ideas here, kinda already done that, these threads now are just to let folks know a new top dollar machine doesn't mean it will be problem free, and top dollar machines don't necessarily come with good company support.

There is interest in the 997 model in the USA, I just want people to know these machines have 'issues'......only fair, that's what forums are for.

As ya know I'm trying different ideas, but what I'm trying to say is, I shouldn't have to modify a 30k machine so it works better, it should be already set up ready top work, this is my point.

Deere should make this right, Not me!

And I know they won't, so these threads can act as a small thorn in their butt letting them know some customers expects value for money and backup, and that when companies shaft clients, clients can use the internet to let other clients know about problems.

We as clients need to expect companies to tow the line, the current behavior from Deere with my mower is not exceptable.

OK, think of it this way, you just bought a new hustler right?
What if it had a major issue, would you go and self fix, or let the company know about the issue and expect them to fix it?
And say after trying everything the company treat it as a joke, would you give in and self fix or jump on here and let everyone know about how the company is shafting ya?

It's not about me fixing this new mower, it is about deere backing their product.

So, if I have to fix up a new 30k mower because deere deny any issues exist, the trade off from me finding a fix is keeping these threads alive so others know that this company is slack at backup and client support and if ya got probs, tough sh!t :)

Mickhippy
12-05-2005, 08:24 AM
No! I dont think YOU should have to fix ya machine! No WAY! $30k! Fark! Can buy a brand new 4wd Diesel Rodeo for that money!
All Im saying is that it dont look like there going to party, so ya have to do what ya have to do to keep it running better! I know you know this, but anyway......

Tonyr
12-05-2005, 06:20 PM
yeah I know what ya saying mate, no probs, and I will definetly be trying that other screen idea you suggested, I might talk to ya privately more about that.

if it's gunna get fixed it will be by me, we all know that, I just reckon they deserve some negative publicity for shafting me, that's why I keep flogging this dead horse subject lol.

Lawn Masters
12-05-2005, 06:25 PM
I know by now, you're sick of JDs crap. time to go DIY to fix it, as you've decided probably. were that my machine, I'd have said screw the warranty, I'll fix it myself.

Tonyr
12-05-2005, 06:48 PM
that is what deere wants me to do, then you can bet one day I'll get a visit from a rep or the dealer with camera in hand, then they will copy what I've done, saves them R&D time.

this is all planned out....by them.

and just going and fixing new machines and screwing the warrantee is not how the game should be played, this is letting them off the hook, to me warrantee is important, especially with a new machine with so many issues.

ya pay big bucks for new gear, in this purchase is warrantee, why give that up to a mob who can't stand by their new top dollar model?

I'll fix it, letting companies shaft ya is not good, only encourages them even more, if more unhappy clients jumped up and down instead of giving in to these business tactics things would be better off. imo.

stuie
12-05-2005, 09:50 PM
Angle grinder time !!! Better go back to work!!

Envy Lawn Service
12-05-2005, 10:11 PM
that is what deere wants me to do, then you can bet one day I'll get a visit from a rep or the dealer with camera in hand, then they will copy what I've done, saves them R&D time.

this is all planned out....by them.

and just going and fixing new machines and screwing the warrantee is not how the game should be played, this is letting them off the hook, to me warrantee is important, especially with a new machine with so many issues.

ya pay big bucks for new gear, in this purchase is warrantee, why give that up to a mob who can't stand by their new top dollar model?

I'll fix it, letting companies shaft ya is not good, only encourages them even more, if more unhappy clients jumped up and down instead of giving in to these business tactics things would be better off. imo.

Hell Tony, I designed the fix and posted it here FOR THEM. You know full well they are here and even with a guy GIVING them the fix... still they are too sorry to act on it.

Yeah, you know I agree with ya on the warranty. But they have already breeched the warranty agreement long ago and have no intention of making any attempt to cure the breech.

So what you have yourself is a situation where the warranty is already no good because they already won't honor it. So it's not like you have anything to loose there by implementing the suggestions I made to you. In minutes they couldn't prove you made changes anyways.

So point is, you do what you gotta do right now to get by during the time period it will take you to envoke other means of remedy with Deere.

Either that or you live with it as-is until then, because brother they ain't gonna do nothing for ya.... and I don't think living with it as-is until is the best choice for your own livelyhood.

So do those simple things I told you. Then you can spend your screen cleaning and cool down time in front of the computer spreading the word about them. Just because you make some hush-hush changes to make life easier on YOU doesn't mean you loose your right to free speech and complaining.

Tonyr
12-05-2005, 10:45 PM
very true mate, good points, and yes, this is how it will resolve, me fixing it so I can keep my sanity with this machine and I'll simply be very happy to tell others how this company has treated me.

I know, we all know deere don't care, I just wanted to keep this thread going because I know they hate it, they deserve the little bit of publicity they get from these forums.

I will fix this mower, but I sure won't be posting pics of how I did it, or letting deere or my dealer see how I fixed it, they did stuff-all for me, I'll give them as much back.

I know deere reads these posts, what amazes me is they haven't tried to resolve the issue to shut down the negative publicity, too big to care maybe?

And to be honest, I'm past caring what deere does, or doesn't do, I can talk about them on many forums, many people will read, many will have 2nd thoughts about getting involved with this mob, and that's all I'm out to achieve now.