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View Full Version : Help guys, trimming is killing me from the elbow down


Envy Lawn Service
10-15-2005, 10:26 PM
Been fighting this for a while guys... and just hoping it would ease away. But it's not. Many times I am miserable with both limbs from the elbow down. Top of the arms, the wrists and hands.... and most times these days I'm having big problems with the right one.

I run my trimmer right handed by the way.

They just ache and it feels like everything has been twisted up tight. As I type this, if I rub my arms it feels like I have a cunch of BB's under my skin. Lots of times out in the field my right hand goes sorta numb.

I'm sorta at a loss on this one. I don't know if it's me and trimming is just starting to get the best of me, or if I've developed a new bad habit I do not realize, or changes in accounts, or changes I've made in relation to my trimmer or what.

I don't know where to point the finger or what to try...
So any input at all would be appreciated.

exmark72
10-15-2005, 10:30 PM
maybe the vibration of the trimmer is just messing up the insides of ur arm.

olderthandirt
10-15-2005, 10:37 PM
Carpel tunnel, or the numbness could be the first signs of diabetes. Or just a combination of the vibrations and age.

olderthandirt
10-15-2005, 10:43 PM
Carpel tunnel, or the numbness could be the first signs of diabetes. Or just a combination of the vibrations and age.

Lawn-Scapes
10-15-2005, 11:14 PM
What trimmer are you using? Is it new? How much trimming do you do.. more than average? Have you adjusted the handle so it's most comfortable for you?

You may have to demo some other trimmers and see if one is a more comfortable fit for you.

Other than that you may want to see a doctor.

LawnBoy89
10-15-2005, 11:54 PM
I thought carpel tunnel too but wouldn't that also irritate when you used the levers on w/b? It really does sound like carpel tunnel though. Im sure the doctor has something for you...

topsites
10-16-2005, 12:01 AM
maybe the vibration of the trimmer is just messing up the insides of ur arm.

I've been using the Echo srm-260s for the past 3 years after my Stihl crapped out and just recently bought another Stihl...
It immediately came to my attention the Stihl transfers every vibe, every rhythm or rpm change, anything that goes on inside the motor OR down at the head straight to the hand via the handle... The echo does not do this because the Echo's handle is shock-absorbent...
So what I did is I ordered another Echo D-handle (that's what it's called) and installed it on my new Stihl weed-eater after I removed the Stihl handle and now everything is soft and smooth again.

Perhaps try an Echo D-handle?

PTP
10-16-2005, 12:11 AM
Hire a helper to do the trimming and you can run the Z.

You may have to pick up a few more accounts in order to pay for the helper but it will be well worth it.

TClawn
10-16-2005, 12:22 AM
sounds like carpal tunnel, except for the BBs under the skin. I would get to the doc pronto.

Envy Lawn Service
10-16-2005, 12:45 AM
Thanks for the replies guys! Here I was on here trying to help someone else and now I'm way behind on responding here. So let me gather my thoughts and try to catch up.

TClawn
10-16-2005, 12:51 AM
btw, shindaiwa also has a D handle that I think is much like the echo. cuts out most of the vibes.

Envy Lawn Service
10-16-2005, 01:15 AM
Topsites,

I will catch up with you in a bit because you wrote more and a lot of it may be on-point.

For now here is the best place for me to begin.
What trimmer are you using? Is it new? How much trimming do you do.. more than average? Have you adjusted the handle so it's most comfortable for you? You may have to demo some other trimmers and see if one is a more comfortable fit for you.

Other than that you may want to see a doctor.

This is a Stihl FS 85 trimmer... Same one I have been running several seasons. But at the same time, much has changed in the trimmer department.

As of now, I am doing a lot more trimming than before, and yes I would say I do more than average. I even have some locations where I trim an hour or more per stop. Goat hills, ditch lines, fence lines and along driveways where homes set high on a hill back in the woods.

As for the handle adjustment, before this cropped up, the increased trimming was wearing my back down badly. It's already bad and I am tall. So I was having to stoop with the left hand handle adjusted back as close to me as possible. So I added an extra J-handle to help with the stooping on normal trimming and found that it also helped my reach while trimming across goat hills. I could go along, left towards the up-side and right towards the down side and get a real good swing of the trimmer.

But I have just removed that J-handle for the process of elimination.

In addition, a few weeks ago, it seemed to me that a lot of it seemed to be in my right wrist which seemed much more uncomfortable in a bent position just holding the trimmer head true to flat ground. Upon further standing around on my poarch one night fooling around trying to nail something down, I felt I had too much bend in my wrist in normal position. I got to looking closer and actually noticed the trimmer head had shifted a bit to one side, which was causing this. So I re-aligned the head properly. Since I have done a great deal better, but at the same time I did much less during September.

I have considered the possibility of trying another trimmer. I am very partial to Stihl, but due to the short shaft, I have always felt the Robin NB020 was a much better fit to my body. Plus it's a lot lighter than the FS85 while still having a steel drive shaft.
My other consideration would be along the lines of something with a throttle lock to get my finger off the trigger. Since I'm effectively mowing lots of times with my trimmer, I run more line out. So I have broken myself of the habit feathering the throttle like I used to. It's more productive to keep that line spinning up to speed while mowing with it, and many say it's better for the trimmer. But I do cramp holding it in one spot instead of feathering.

Envy Lawn Service
10-16-2005, 01:44 AM
btw, shindaiwa also has a D handle that I think is much like the echo. cuts out most of the vibes.

sounds like carpal tunnel, except for the BBs under the skin. I would get to the doc pronto.

Carpel tunnel, or the numbness could be the first signs of diabetes. Or just a combination of the vibrations and age.


maybe the vibration of the trimmer is just messing up the insides of ur arm.

I thought carpel tunnel too but wouldn't that also irritate when you used the levers on w/b? It really does sound like carpel tunnel though. Im sure the doctor has something for you...

Well, I sure hope it's not carpel tunnel. I'm not all that familiar with it. So I don't know the symptoms. But I do know it's bad news.

As for the BB's feel under the skin on my arms.... well over the years and after various injuries, I have became pretty stiff and tense. My dad is this way also. So I'm not sure if it's like little spasm knots on my muscle strands, or on the ligaments/tendons.

As for the vibration part, I have always been extremely sensitive to it. Just can't take it. I remember getting my first trimmer when I was a kid... a 2 ton curved shaft... and it had vibration. I can remember after using it a while and stopping... when I went to wipe my face, my brain told my hand to go, but my hand just couldn't get there.

This is one of the big reasons I stay with Stihl... low vibration in my experience... low because I can't tolerate much. However, I do have to mention something... my problems have came along since changing the carb. Since the change, it does run different. I don't know the correct term to describe it, can't think of it although I am well versed in 2 cycles.... but here is the best I can come up with... it runs different in that it is in it's smooth screaming power band at about 3/4 to 7/8 throttle (which has also helped break me from feathering/reving). So it lopes some below that, and bleats/flattens out beyond that. This does give off some vibes.

As for the comment about the walkbehinds... that's part of why I do not run them.
The other is getting over into what Mac had to say.

Mac,

I do have DIABETES. It's under control. But it still SUX for me, especially in this business. For me this has been good reasoning to steer clear of walkbehinds and stander type machines, although I'd probably love running one... might would even rather have one as my main mower a good deal of the time. But I have to be mindful of my health. I have to conserve my energy/stamina and not over-do it. Plus, I try my best to be extra kind to my feet and joints. Riding really gives me a break on the job that I need between doing the other tasks... otherwise my blood sugar bottoms out. I have what they call the Syndrome X Diabetes.... which is like having both diabetes and hypoglycemia... which boils down to a roller coaster of high and low blood sugar levels if not properly managed.

Envy Lawn Service
10-16-2005, 01:45 AM
Oh, and Mac... I hope 31 isn't old age... although many days I feel twice that age :)

Tinkerer
10-16-2005, 01:59 AM
I"ve been having health problems for years and haven't trimmed for at least 3 years. I just mow bigger lawns and have a nice small group of customers who didn't ditch me after I had to stop trimming.

grass_cuttin_fool
10-16-2005, 09:40 AM
Envy
I have both stihls and robin trimmers, the robin is alot lighter. I have 3 robins and all 3 have different vibrations. Where at in nc are you at? Im 30 miles north of Danville, you could get one of my trimmers and try it before shelling out cash for one and not work out

Pecker
10-16-2005, 11:05 AM
I hope you can see a doctor about this. If it does turn out to be carpel tunnel or something requiring surgery, now is a great time to set a date, going into the winter and all. However, maybe you could switch to a trimmer with a bicycle bar. I know it would be a little cumbersome but you may get used to it and be able to save your hands. Whatever you do, I hope you find the solution soon. Obviously you can't continue at this rate. You don't want to cripple your hands. GL and let us know when you solve it so others can avoid the same mistake.

naturescape
10-16-2005, 11:07 AM
For me, using an Echo 260 for a few years WAS getting tiresome, due to the weight. What a difference this year after switching to the Tanaka 230 (under 10lbs. with the guard removed)!

Still use the Echo with Edgit to do some edging and trimming (small properties only).

I hope you can resolve your issue. Let us know what helps.

olderthandirt
10-16-2005, 11:29 AM
Adapt & overcome, 1st thing check the sugar level when it happens could be low from exertion. Then since you are basically mowing with a trimmer you need to let the ground absorb some of the vibration. differnt head might work or one of those line trimmers on wheels. Also as someone said the bicycle bars take a lot of the vibration out of the hands and transfers it to the chest and shoulders if you wear it tight. I would look at a heavier trimmer rather than a lighter one since they seem to have less vibration. I have the stihl 85 & 110 & 250. The 250 is heavier but so much smoother to run and after using it for a day you dont notice the extra weight. Good Luck

befnme
10-16-2005, 01:39 PM
i have carpal tunnel and mine do the same.no prob when i run the w/b though.but when i drive my truck my wrists and hands go to "sleep" while holding the steering wheel.you can get some temporary releif from having a chiropractor use that little vibrator machine on your hands and wrists.

MOturkey
10-16-2005, 01:49 PM
I've lots of trivial and mostly useless information stored throught my cranium, and I'm almost sure there is a syndrome associated with prolonged exposure to vibration. I don't have a clue as to the name, but recall reading about it several years ago. It isn't something to mess around with and can cause some serious problems over the long run. The numbness from excessive vibration is, I believe, an early warning sign of possible problems. I truly believe I'd see a physician and explain exactly the symptoms you are experiencing and make sure he knows what you do for a living. If you find the name of this syndrome, let me know, because now it is bugging the heck out of me that I can't remember it. Best of luck. Neill

Envy Lawn Service
10-16-2005, 03:09 PM
I've been using the Echo srm-260s for the past 3 years after my Stihl crapped out and just recently bought another Stihl...
It immediately came to my attention the Stihl transfers every vibe, every rhythm or rpm change, anything that goes on inside the motor OR down at the head straight to the hand via the handle... The echo does not do this because the Echo's handle is shock-absorbent...
So what I did is I ordered another Echo D-handle (that's what it's called) and installed it on my new Stihl weed-eater after I removed the Stihl handle and now everything is soft and smooth again.

Perhaps try an Echo D-handle?

I think I pretty much covered every corner of replying to you already in my other posts.

I've been fond of Stihl for lack of vibration. But as I said, I did pick up some different character with the new carb and do get some.

I'm familiar with Echo's D handle though. It's a nice well padded piece which has to benefit any machine. The only issue I have with that is the Echo D handle is shorter in height than my standard handle, which would equate to more stooping....

However, I'm gonna go just run the trimmer a bit here in a few (off the job) just so I can pay close attention and focus in on the vibrations.

Envy Lawn Service
10-16-2005, 03:10 PM
Envy
I have both stihls and robin trimmers, the robin is alot lighter. I have 3 robins and all 3 have different vibrations. Where at in nc are you at? Im 30 miles north of Danville, you could get one of my trimmers and try it before shelling out cash for one and not work out

So you do get a little bit of vibes from the robins?
More or less than the Stihls?

Envy Lawn Service
10-16-2005, 03:17 PM
Adapt & overcome, 1st thing check the sugar level when it happens could be low from exertion. Then since you are basically mowing with a trimmer you need to let the ground absorb some of the vibration. differnt head might work or one of those line trimmers on wheels. Also as someone said the bicycle bars take a lot of the vibration out of the hands and transfers it to the chest and shoulders if you wear it tight. I would look at a heavier trimmer rather than a lighter one since they seem to have less vibration. I have the stihl 85 & 110 & 250. The 250 is heavier but so much smoother to run and after using it for a day you dont notice the extra weight. Good Luck

Blood sugar issues makes it hard to know really... even if the levels are good.
Our metabolism for many things is often effected.
So there are many underlying side effects that can still be a problem, despite good control.

My personal health is certainly still my #1 suspect in this.
But I want to be sure.

If it's the trimmer or the health, I may have to switch brands, or get bike handles or try one of those dang hover mowers. A trimmer on wheels won't work for me.... maybe a trimmer on tracks...

Envy Lawn Service
10-16-2005, 03:21 PM
i have carpal tunnel and mine do the same.no prob when i run the w/b though.but when i drive my truck my wrists and hands go to "sleep" while holding the steering wheel.you can get some temporary releif from having a chiropractor use that little vibrator machine on your hands and wrists.

OK... so would you describe it as a different kind of "asleep"?
Mine is a very aching, cramping asleep with less tingle than the normal typical asleep.

Also, do you feel tight and ache like crazy after getting home at night?

TClawn
10-16-2005, 05:32 PM
my mom had your symptoms, minus the BBs with her carpal tunnel. if you wait too long, you can get perminent nerve damage. the winter would probably be a good time to get the surgery done if you need it.

grass_cuttin_fool
10-16-2005, 05:37 PM
So you do get a little bit of vibes from the robins?
More or less than the Stihls?
I quess I have a silly answer, but I dont notice alot of vibration from the stihl or Robin, My main concern has been the weight of the trimmers. But being a heavy truck mechanic and changing tires and stuff for 20 years, Ive pretty much burned and mashed the feeling from my fingers and I dont notice alot of the vibrations, and the newer Robins have a motorcycle grip on the shaft and it seems to make alot of difference. My oldest Robin just has a hard plastic handle on the Shaft. :waving:

sheshovel
10-16-2005, 06:50 PM
They also make good vibration dampner gloves that could help you.A trimmer on wheels can do a whole lot of off-road trimming is what I call it.You would still have to trim some on steep hills but the one I have will go as close to a fence as a hand trimmer,
And if you cut tracks into the back tires (they are soild) and nail some knobs into them they do go off into the boonies quite well.
You have 4 thick thick lines,and a throttle on it that you don't have to hold down,you can use both hands and no stooping either...mine has saved me a bunch of hand work.
I suggest you rent a good one and take it to a property and try it if anything.You'll see what I mean.
Carple Tunnel usually manifests itself in the tips of the fingers by pain and or numbness in the middle finger more .Your wrists will hurt like hell and ache enough to keep you up at night.One or both arms could be numb sometimes all day,or you can "work out "shake out the numbness "and be ok tell you stop for the day.
Get a carple brace or support and wear it NOW all day and all night,its the one that holds your middle finger back from flexing or bending,and supports your wrist.You can get at any hospital supply,or online or at sporting goods stores,or drug stores.
They are uncomfortable but too bad... wear it anyway!
I suggest you get an adjustment of your neck,back (upper) and have you rib-ends put back in- line by a Chiropractor,three adjustments should do it
but rest after them dont work the rest of the day.I can imagine with all that stooping(a trimmer that does not fit you and no support)Has your spine and neck all screwed to heck.Just ask him for an all round adjustment and your rib-ends and don't let him talk you into a bunch of return visits,three or 4 should get you right.....Good luck and don't mess with this it is serious.

Rich's LS
10-16-2005, 06:59 PM
It sounds like tennis elbow to me... I've had the same problem on both arm's and am getting injections of Lanocain (sp) It works good.. It was so bad that I couldn't pick anything up... Hope that helps

lawnboy dan
10-16-2005, 08:29 PM
here,s a tip for making handles more vibration friendly. take an old golf grip and split it open and wrap it around the handle and tape it up . 2 great ultra light weedeaters are robin and husky 323 series

Envy Lawn Service
10-16-2005, 09:24 PM
Well, I read several other posts here, including what sheshovel wrote, which happens to be very on-point.... which I'll get to in a bit...

But then I came down and read this...

It sounds like tennis elbow to me... I've had the same problem on both arm's and am getting injections of Lanocain (sp) It works good.. It was so bad that I couldn't pick anything up... Hope that helps

So to be honest, I'm thinking what the flip is tennis elbow? Some yuppie/prep elbow strain that occurs at the country club?... And what the heck does tennis have to do with trimming?

But good grief I'm despirate to figure out something. I'm think well it is from the elbow down... So I plug that into Google and start reading. At first I'm thinking nah... But as I go on and start looking at more, I see this illustration, which hit's home pretty well due to the hammer.

http://www.tennis-elbow.net/images/hammerelbow.gif

So I start to feel around real good in there inside that circle like it says as I read. After a bit of probing I hit something and HOLY COW!!! About peed my pants!

Then I look at this one and think, yup, all the muscles shown here hurt.
http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/fact/images/master_71.gif

And finally I am dumb enough to attempt the stretch illustrated here by Mr Tennis Player.

http://www.nismat.org/ptcor/tennis_elbow/stretch2.jpg

Boy howdy!!! That hurt.

So yep, I do believe that is the end result. I also have similar pain in other similar areas such as the legs as well. In fact in general over time I have become stiff and sore like this about all over. Specifically the legs and back. I don't know if it's because there is something wrong, or if it's just due to a lot of hard work over a lot of years and other injuries. Maybe severe tendonitis?

I don't know, but one thing is for sure. My arms have never been affected like this, and tennis elbow sure seems like the diagnosis. But the remaining question that concerns me more is WHY? Or WHY NOW?

Is it something that has built up over time? Or because I'm just doing too much trimming now? Or have I brought it on with changes or changes to equipment?

I need to rule out what I can one by one and do the best for me that I can.

scottishmaximus
10-16-2005, 09:45 PM
Sounds like you do a lot of trimming. I have used the fs85. I find that the angle of the trimmer head is very uncomfortable, overworking my back and arms. It is also a heavier trimmer. Any chance you can get by with a lighter, less powerful trimmer? Maybe a lighter one for certain jobs? Husqvarna 323 series are very lightweight and have little vibration. Also, spools can be wound unevenly causing vibration. I also have stihl backpack blowers that transfer a lot of vibration throught the handle and my elbow. Maybe it's not a trimmer issue but another piece of equipment.

Envy Lawn Service
10-16-2005, 10:14 PM
sheshovel, I thought about the gloves and/or adding dampning material on the trimmer when I was out with the trimmer earlier messing around.

As for the trimmer on wheels, I could trim a lot of my normal trimming with one of those. Being in a different working position would help and so would not having to hold the throttle. Heck anything would help. But I think it's the hill mowing that's really tearing me up... and these you would really just have to see. Many fall in the 60-80 degree range, meaning it has to be dry and you have to have proper footwear to even get on them with a regular trimmer.

As for the carpal tunnel, it's not off the chart yet. I have a lot of pain in the wrists and the tops of my hands. So I'm not going to go blind to the carpal tunnel just because I'm pretty positive it is tennis elbow.

As for the back and neck, you are right on there. Over the course of two accidents I've pretty much hurt everything from the base of my skull, down to my tailbone. Top half first in a car accident, then the bottom half in a nasty fall.

Am I a regular with the Chiropractor like I should be.... no.... shame on me.
I've been hurting along the left side of my spine from the shoulder down to my mid-back for more than a week now, and just got to where I could turn my head and shoulders freely about a day or so ago. Stubborn stupidity I guess. I'm just natured to go on best I can until it passes.

topsites
10-16-2005, 10:26 PM
I've lots of trivial and mostly useless information stored throught my cranium, and I'm almost sure there is a syndrome associated with prolonged exposure to vibration. I don't have a clue as to the name, but recall reading about it several years ago. It isn't something to mess around with and can cause some serious problems over the long run. The numbness from excessive vibration is, I believe, an early warning sign of possible problems. I truly believe I'd see a physician and explain exactly the symptoms you are experiencing and make sure he knows what you do for a living. If you find the name of this syndrome, let me know, because now it is bugging the heck out of me that I can't remember it. Best of luck. Neill

Could be Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, or CTS :)

Here it is:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000433.htm

You might also check into purchasing a wrist-support band, forget exactly what it's called but you buy it at health / medical supply stores and it costs around 20 bucks... I have one I wear every once in a blue moon when one of my wrists about can't take the pain anymore... That, and around 800 mg's of Motrin usually does the trick as well thou anything 800 mg's or over is prescription strength.

topsites
10-16-2005, 10:32 PM
There is one more trick I use from time to time but you have to be real careful and you will not be able to go as fast... The trick is to weed-eat left-handed, the only problem you REALLY need to watch the muffler as it will be on your side and you don't want to come in contact with it... That and it's just slow going but I've weed-eated left-handed a few times, might be worth a try.

Far as the earlier part with replies to posts... I have this short-term memory loss and can't exactly remember this bit, hope it was nothing serious, heh.

topsites
10-16-2005, 10:51 PM
I don't know, but one thing is for sure. My arms have never been affected like this, and tennis elbow sure seems like the diagnosis. But the remaining question that concerns me more is WHY? Or WHY NOW?

Is it something that has built up over time? Or because I'm just doing too much trimming now? Or have I brought it on with changes or changes to equipment?

I need to rule out what I can one by one and do the best for me that I can.

I don't know but pain is something started with me a few years ago, it was real bad at first and then I got used to it or something, not sure... Some of it is age, once you get in your 30's, things start to hurt a little and it gets worse with time (I don't even want to THINK what it must hurt like at age 80!) so this I figured is part of the reason old people move SLOW!
So one thing I did is slow down a bit, this helped. A fair amount of Motrin every day helped as well, not only does it relieve pain but it thins your blood so it improves circulation some. Vitamins may help, they may not, but plenty of rest and a healthy diet is good. The problem with Motrin I did learn over time my body developed a tolerance and once it got to the point that even 1,600 mg's of Motrin hardly affected the pain, I stopped taking it.
In some ways it is possible you have hurt yourself... In other ways it's just as likely to be age and wear and tear... Hence the reason why at my age, I think a LOT of syndromes are only as real as the person suffering it (thou AIDS is obviously very real, for example). Were I to try and get diagnosed with medical problems, I don't think the list would end so long somebody was footing the bill, I am certain the doctors would have a field day with me... At the same rate, I just keep on getting it and do a lot of mind-numbing exercises where I force myself to clear the mind, like with a fog I enshroud myself and everything disappears, even the pain.

But yes, the pain is a daily part of life to me, I can do silly exercises until I crap my pants but I figure those exercises were invented by someone who gets PAID coming up with this stuff... Since I don't get paid for bending until it hurts, I stopped doing this.

The pain is another reason why somedays I have such an attitude, also... Everyone always thinks lawncare is so easy, everyone wonders why I suddenly feel the urge to buy a 30-thousand dollar excavator/loader instead of using the shovel/wheel-barrow... Everyone thinks I'm crazy when I say somedays the pain is so bad it about makes me scream in the mornings, try and get out of bed...

Moving slower definitely helps. Only time I *MOVE* anymore is when time is worth $60/hour... Anything less isn't even worth a decent fart out of me, lol.

Best of luck!

JTW
10-16-2005, 10:58 PM
it's prolly tendonitis.. I have it and yes it sucks.

Envy Lawn Service
10-16-2005, 11:25 PM
it's prolly tendonitis.. I have it and yes it sucks.

This is what I'm thinking since I'm all the time stiff and sore somewhere, and since I am considering the fact my dad is the same way. My legs have been like this off and on for two years now... ever since I hurt my low back in Oct '03. Sciatica in both legs that comes and goes. Cramps that come and go... Plus muscle soreness and tight hamstrings that never really go away. If I try to touch my toes it's like I'm going to rip something loose in the backs of my legs.

But anyways, since you know you have this... is there any treatment for this misery?

Envy Lawn Service
10-16-2005, 11:32 PM
Topsites,

I here ya man! Sounds like we share some stubborness...

Anyways, I'm thinking if I could spend one of the winter months in one of those ritzy resorts for 30 days of rest, rehab and pampering... You know, the works, massage therapy and every other type of theriputics known to man... then maybe I could come back home and actually feel 31 for a while....

JTW
10-16-2005, 11:59 PM
This is what I'm thinking since I'm all the time stiff and sore somewhere, and since I am considering the fact my dad is the same way. My legs have been like this off and on for two years now... ever since I hurt my low back in Oct '03. Sciatica in both legs that comes and goes. Cramps that come and go... Plus muscle soreness and tight hamstrings that never really go away. If I try to touch my toes it's like I'm going to rip something loose in the backs of my legs.

But anyways, since you know you have this... is there any treatment for this misery?


I wasa on viox up until the pulled it and until I ran out, it worked great. Now everything they give me is not as good even though they claim it's the same (funny that it is still on the market though). I have also gotten cortisone shots that seem to wrok pretty good. Other then that they tell me not to do anything that will irritate it and thats just not happening unless I win the lottery!

Martee
10-17-2005, 12:45 AM
[QUOTE=Envy Lawn Service]Been fighting this for a while guys... and just hoping it would ease away. But it's not. Many times I am miserable with both limbs from the elbow down. Top of the arms, the wrists and hands.... and most times these days I'm having big problems with the right one.

I have this same problem when I trim for a long period of time also. I see a chiropractor for this and have had to go to physical therapy they called it Therasic outlet (sorry if spelling isnt correct) they did massage on my spine areas and on my arms and the chest muscle that goes into the arm pit. The therapy helped within a few days. I now see the chiro on a regular basis and get a massage every couple of months. I tell them my problem and they always work on those specific areas I have to do regular stretching of my hands and arms as the picture you posted and get easier every time but I lose complete feeling in my hand and arm when I sleep if I dont stay up on it. It can be worked out just have someone stretch the muscles in your arms while bending your hand back and forth (hurts like a mad man) but works. You really need to go to the chiropractor not a dr cause Dr will just try and give you meds that make you goofy and not safe to work on hills. Or tell you right off you have carpel tunnel, they tried this with me so I had test done and that wasnt what it was.
good luck.

Envy Lawn Service
10-17-2005, 12:54 AM
Well ain't that just peachy?...

To top it off, I can't have some of the other common medications given for strains/sprains/spasms/tears/inflamation/ect.

Two years ago when I hurt my back I had a doctor dang near kill me. He prescribed some meds with the knowledge I had diabetes. Got that filled and started taking it. I got in bad shape, didn't know what was wrong and my blood sugar levels went sky high. At first, I thought it was the stress and pain. But it kept climbing and climbing. Thank God for drug info online because when I started to suspect the meds, I figured out the pharmacy didn't put the drug info in my baggy. So I looked it up online and figured out myself what was wrong.

Envy Lawn Service
10-17-2005, 01:01 AM
Martee,

Believe me... your advice is well recieved. I could already see the story you told about the medical doctors coming from a mile away. Turns into a big circle jerk of wasting the patients money and time. Why could I see this coming? Because of the nature of this... muscles and nerves... and my past experiences with back and neck injuries.

dcplace2004
10-17-2005, 02:50 AM
why did they not use a more shock absorbing handle on their expensive azz trimmers--to save a buck?...I like the redmax handle better then echo...then the echo...but the stihl is rigid as hellll...I will email stihl on this one...also, in Texas, where I did a great deal of landscaping, I developed carpel tunnel BAD...It was also probably because my jobs in the military and also the fact that I worked in a maximum security prison in Texas as a CO where I shut big azz doors all day long and "defend" myself against the worst of humanity--some of them probably got out and are mowing yards :help: ...The doctor told me that if I did not get them repaired I would sustain permanent damage...numbness in the hands, pain in the arms where I would wake up evey 30 minutes with aches from the shoulder down, etc...the surgeon did a procedure where he did NOT cut my palm and wrist, but instead went in with a scope and hook knife instrument to sever the transverse carpel ligament to free up the nerve "tunnel"...cut the hands and you will be out for months...scope it and you will be using hands within 7 days (brush teeth and activities like that, not digging with shovels)...if it IS carpel tunnel, braces will NOT work, but only put more pressure on the tunnel and close it up more, increasing irritation and swelling around the nerve...in many people, that tunnel is a design flaw, but I won't go there cause I am not an artist to say the least in that realm...but get it checked cause it could be other things...there is also the radial nerve that can act up...peace...

yardmonkey
10-17-2005, 11:59 AM
I struggled with lots of serious hand and arm problems during my first couple of years in the lawn care business. I studied to the ends of the world, bought 300 books, spent hundreds of hours in research and self-directed physical therapy and over 2 years I solved the problems. I do the same work every day now with no pain.

This is basically a matter of soft-tissue injury. The cause is a combination of repetitive motion (using a trimmer every day) and pre-existing deep chronic muscular tension (just another way of saying that your body is not in the absolute best possible shape/posture/condition).

First the RSI (repetitive strain injury) must be addressed. Soft tissues (muscles, tendons, ligaments, fascia) are irritated and care must be taken during rehabilitation to be very gentle and not make things worse. There is one book you need to get:
Conquering Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and Other Repetitive Strain Injuries by Sharon Butler. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1572240393/
She is the top expert in the world on such conditions. She also has more specific self-help programs available through her website. I highly recommned these programs but you may be OK with just the book.
http://www.selfcare4rsi.com

After you start to get the acute condition (pain) under control you need to address the underlying cause, which means getting your whole body straightened out, realligned, etc. This is harder to learn about and accomplish. I recommend Pain Free by Pete Egoscue for more info. I recommend yoga and working with light-weight dumbbells.

I have tons more info on this on my website here:
http://www.ionet.net/~tslade/hands.htm
Those pages are a bit out of date and hopefully some day I will write this up a bit better, but TONS of useful info is there.

Do not go to a doctor! They are good for some things - like if you are in a car wreck. They know nothing about this type of thing. They will prescribe surgery and/or drugs. The drugs are useless - will harm you plus enable you to injure yourself more. Cortisone shots will cripple you permanently. Surgery will cripple you permanently. Sometimes a good doctor will refer you to a physical therapist, and sometimes they are helpful, sometimes not. If you get deperate for some outside help, look for a good bodyworker, massage therapist, Hellerworker, Rolfer, chiropractor, etc. But you can fix this yourself.

Get Sharon Butler's book!!!

Good luck, and keep after it.

chimmygew
10-17-2005, 12:31 PM
Another possible problem is the ulna nerve in your elbow, which is basically your funny bone. With running power equipment, it can cause the cannal surrounding the nerve to collapse and put pressure on the nerve. The only way to cure that is surgery, and it is not very much fun. I've had two done. It causes tingling, numbness and painful sensations in the lower arm, wrist, hand, and fingers as it worsens. And running power equipment can cause this and make it worse.

trying 2b organic
10-17-2005, 03:20 PM
Ok I was definatly expecting to be the only one prescribing yoga. Yoga and light dumbells will be part of my life till I die. They have kept me going at a much higher quality of life.

I use a Shin 230 with an edgit. Better for back for sure. It rolls along the ground.

And I can't tell you what hiring a helper is like, its amazing. For a fraction of my daily take Someone Else does all the work that was hurting my body. This kid will do weeds and trimming for a couple yrs and move on just fine, meanwhile I get home at night in OK shape.

dishboy
10-17-2005, 04:58 PM
I had a similar pains in my left arm from the elbo down ( I trim left handed). I switched to Shindiawa T-260's from Echos and have not had any discomfort since.

THill3
10-17-2005, 06:02 PM
Sounds like tendonitis to me. I have it and when my forearms are used holding anything it really hurts.

MJB
10-18-2005, 01:26 AM
I was having all kind of pain too, from stringtrimming etc. My shoulder, elbow and hand hurt constantly, with inflamation in my hand and wrist. I found a very potent fish oil that controled the pain and inflamation within days. There is only 1 fish oil like this, 1 teaspoon is the same as 10 capsules of the cheap stuff and the drug store, and the taste isn't bad. PM me if you want to know the source.

MJB
10-18-2005, 01:47 AM
I didn't know the email function was shut off. If anyone once to know more about the brand of fish oil for inflamation and pain, and a number of other illnesses email me at mjbell@genext.net We take it everyday, even my dog takes it for his arthritis, and allergies. It worked better than what the vet gave him. If a Dr wants to give you a cortizone shot, try this first, it works and without the bad side effects.

jeffex
10-18-2005, 05:55 AM
get the lightest trimmer you can and take off the guard use .080 trimmer line fro good rpms and take multi-vitamin with calcium and magnesium. Thats what I did and told my brother-in-law about it and it worked for him. I use a husquvarna 23cc trimmer now because its very light. I liked the kawi. 23cc but they didn't last too long. I can trim 1 handed with these light trimmers . take extra care without the guards but it will help your problem worth the risk for me. a nurse told me about vitamin b-6 for carpal tunnel and I laughed at first but when I got desperate I said what the hell! helped alot for me. she told me our bodies get vitamins from the sunlight so in the fall as we put on long pants and shirts we absorb less.

naturescape
10-18-2005, 08:24 AM
get the lightest trimmer you can and take off the guard use .080 trimmer line fro good rpms and take multi-vitamin with calcium and magnesium. Thats what I did and told my brother-in-law about it and it worked for him. I use a husquvarna 23cc trimmer now because its very light. I liked the kawi. 23cc but they didn't last too long. I can trim 1 handed with these light trimmers . take extra care without the guards but it will help your problem worth the risk for me. a nurse told me about vitamin b-6 for carpal tunnel and I laughed at first but when I got desperate I said what the hell! helped alot for me. she told me our bodies get vitamins from the sunlight so in the fall as we put on long pants and shirts we absorb less.

All good advice.

Envy Lawn Service
10-18-2005, 11:51 PM
yardmonkey,

Sounds like you picked up on the fact that yes I am concerned with these symtoms, but also the chronic tension/stiffness that was already present, and more than anything, I'm concerned with finding the UNDERLYING ISSUE that is causing the symptoms.

Envy Lawn Service
10-19-2005, 12:07 AM
Another possible problem is the ulna nerve in your elbow, which is basically your funny bone. With running power equipment, it can cause the cannal surrounding the nerve to collapse and put pressure on the nerve. The only way to cure that is surgery, and it is not very much fun. I've had two done. It causes tingling, numbness and painful sensations in the lower arm, wrist, hand, and fingers as it worsens. And running power equipment can cause this and make it worse.

Well, I have to say that I have to give your reply a lot of credit also.

I'm guessing that is a perfect explaination of why I wake up at night with them asleep? I often sleep on my back with my elbows bent and my arms resting against my body. (Relaxing from other tensions) And when I do this, I ALWAYS wake to having my hands asleep, half the ring finger, pinky and that side of the hand... sometimes more... but at least that side of both hands.

Point being here... it's pretty obvious a lot is going on here from more than one issue.

Envy Lawn Service
10-19-2005, 12:18 AM
I had a similar pains in my left arm from the elbo down ( I trim left handed). I switched to Shindiawa T-260's from Echos and have not had any discomfort since.

I don't know if I have ever laid hands on the T-260...
But remember the T-270's that looked like this?
http://www.shindaiwa.com/images/T270.jpg

That was the other machine that fit my frame to a T.
I used to run the old school Shins... big and small.
Good stuff. Lasts forever.

I would have bought the T-270 too instead of the FS85 because it 'fit' me better even though it's a beastly trimmer... and my experience with Shin gave me no reason not to. But I came to realize with little insignificant wear parts, that had the equipment not been so good... I would have really been up a creek. One dealer left in my area... and that dealer sucked.

Envy Lawn Service
10-19-2005, 12:37 AM
All good advice.

Yeah I agree, jeffex offered some good stuff there...

Well... except for the Husqvarna trimmers... I've spent my last penny with that company.

Anyways, as a diabetic, I burn, waste and/or flush a lot of important vitamins, minerals, ect, which leads to a lot of deficiencies. I try my best to do well with my diet, ect, but it's still hard to know if you have a deficiency. But on that note, it made me think to mention that I have started drinking the Propel water. It can get a bit expensive, but I certainly feel better during the day.

Also, while on the subject of what jeffex had to say, he mentioned trimmer line, which is also a specific sub-item of my general list of CHANGES that I was looking into in order to start a process of elimination if need be. I have changed from Sufix Mega twist line. The .95 is very similar to .80 and very free flying. Well, I wouldn't say I have changed exactly... I've just been doing some extensive field testing of some heavy .95 line.

jeffex
10-19-2005, 05:38 AM
Envy , I used the kawi 23 cc soley because of its WEIGHT factor as well as the husqvarna. I don't care how GOOD they are is my back that I am protecting. The .080 line gets a better rpm for me so I can trim 1 handed . The slower rpm pulls more on my arm and back and adds to the fatigue factor. Try some ice packs to reduce the inflammation on the elbows. Thats what my DR. told me to do for my back. I put one in a cooler when its bothering me and put it at the base of my spine for the ride home and it works better than any drugs. Only thing better is jack daniels but then I'll need a chauffeur to get home!!

dishboy
10-19-2005, 09:33 AM
I don't know if I have ever laid hands on the T-260...
But remember the T-270's that looked like this?
http://www.shindaiwa.com/images/T270.jpg

That was the other machine that fit my frame to a T.
I used to run the old school Shins... big and small.
Good stuff. Lasts forever.

I would have bought the T-270 too instead of the FS85 because it 'fit' me better even though it's a beastly trimmer... and my experience with Shin gave me no reason not to. But I came to realize with little insignificant wear parts, that had the equipment not been so good... I would have really been up a creek. One dealer left in my area... and that dealer sucked.


My mistake . My trimmers are the T- 270's. Unless you drop the machine you will not have any parts replacements until at least three or four years use unless you run the line real long as I do, then a replacement clutch's every year to year 1/2 are the only parts I have had to replace.

befnme
10-19-2005, 02:22 PM
OK... so would you describe it as a different kind of "asleep"?
Mine is a very aching, cramping asleep with less tingle than the normal typical asleep.

Also, do you feel tight and ache like crazy after getting home at night?

i gues so, yeh i think it is a little different it still tingles alot though.and when i get home sometimes i ache so bad i want to take a bottle full of naprosen. but i only take 1 or 2 then sooner or later after a shower i can finally get into just the right position that i can rest.but if i move it starts all over again.your doctor can prescribe 800 mg. naprosen and it will help ease the pain off. thats what i take.

befnme
10-19-2005, 02:39 PM
Well, I have to say that I have to give your reply a lot of credit also.

I'm guessing that is a perfect explaination of why I wake up at night with them asleep? I often sleep on my back with my elbows bent and my arms resting against my body. (Relaxing from other tensions) And when I do this, I ALWAYS wake to having my hands asleep, half the ring finger, pinky and that side of the hand... sometimes more... but at least that side of both hands.

Point being here... it's pretty obvious a lot is going on here from more than one issue.


mine do that also,it's kinda funny to think about but when i wake up to the alarm and my hands are asleep it feels like my fingers are grossly fat and i cant tell if i am touching the alarm button or not.:p

also on a more serious note my arms almost always hurt to move when i first wake up .kinda like they are full of cactus quills especially in the elbo joint. wow man talk about uncomfortable. i just pop a naprosen and keep rollin.

mowmasteruk
10-19-2005, 04:01 PM
Here in the U.K. the Health & Safety Executive insist that manufacturers of machines sold in this country publish the hand/arm vibration index in the owner's handbook. Employers here have to use the index to calculate what is a safe amount of time to allow an operator to be exposed to the vibration. This law has only recently come in and is to prevent operators from developing 'whitefinger' disease, which is common amongst chainsaw users such as loggers. If you are experiencing numbness or tingling in the hands or fingers for any length of time after using a machine you need to check it out with a doctor.

chimmygew
10-19-2005, 04:35 PM
[QUOTE=I ALWAYS wake to having my hands asleep, half the ring finger, pinky and that side of the hand... sometimes more... but at least that side of both hands.QUOTE]

The ulna nerve controls the side of your hand that you just described. When it gets really bad, it'll feel like pins and needles are jabbing you. If that is the problem, get it looked at by a neurologist ASAP. Nerve damage is irreversible if the problem is left untreated. I have about 85% of the feeling back in my hand and my arm now. By the way, did you get my post in the General Green Industry Forum about the clothes?

Envy Lawn Service
10-19-2005, 10:44 PM
I ALWAYS wake to having my hands asleep, half the ring finger, pinky and that side of the hand... sometimes more... but at least that side of both hands.

The ulna nerve controls the side of your hand that you just described. When it gets really bad, it'll feel like pins and needles are jabbing you. If that is the problem, get it looked at by a neurologist ASAP. Nerve damage is irreversible if the problem is left untreated. I have about 85% of the feeling back in my hand and my arm now. By the way, did you get my post in the General Green Industry Forum about the clothes?

chimmygew,

No... mine is not quite that bad yet... don't have the extremity of the pins and needles jabbing. Lucky for me I am also seeing some marked improvement now. But I have also taken it easy and been very mindful of the trimmer use this week... as well as making other personal adjustments.

Oh and yes, I did read your post over in my other thread.
But it was only minutes before reading this one (after 10PM).
I didn't want to be rude.

But I would sure appreciate the info any way you would like to share it with me.
I need to get a plan squared away for the color green or yellow shirts I need and get it squared away in the off-season, or atleast before hot weather strikes again. If not, I'll need to get converted back to red while everything is out of service for the winter.

MJB
10-19-2005, 11:29 PM
Envy, If you are a diabetic, you really should listen to this short ABC News brief. I have seen this stuff work over and over for many of the problems you've mentioned. This website has the news program on this special oil, go to http://www.healthtalkatlanta.com click on abc news. If you want more info email me at mjbell@genext.net I can show you the cheapest way tp buy it. Because of my back and joint problems I have to take this daily, and I almost double how far I can stringtrim, before I have to take a break, and it works fast.:cool2:
There is also a another button on the website, to click on to learn more about it.

goodgreen
10-20-2005, 07:47 AM
Just got back from Expo 2005 in Louisville. Bought something called an EZ Trim there by Innovative Concepts. It's a wheel attachment that reduces muscle strain and fatigue and gives you the correct height adjustment. Company is located in Nashville...call toll free at 1-866-223-1905. I think it cost about $29.95. I had very regular shoulder pain from the strain and this has almost eliminated it.

sheshovel
10-20-2005, 12:24 PM
Do NOT allow anybody to shoot you up with cortizone
shots!It just will screw you up worse and you have to keep on getting them and the relief is temoprary anyway.
OK you guys are gonna call me nuts again but that's OK.
Have you ever heard of a healing technique called
Reflexology?You can do it your self,anywhere and it really works..... though I doubt your going to use this wonderfull self healing device I will explain it anyway.
There are pressure points throughout your body and this is a proven fact.They are the same ones used in acupuncture ..but you can clear them with your fingers useing a firm /hard rolling and pressing motion on the pressure points to help your pain and clear your points of clogs and stuff that affects all parts of the body.These points are located in your hands,feet,ears,head mainly.Take your thumb and forefinger of one hand and feel the webs between the oposite hands fingers.With your thumb on the bottom and your forefinger on top of the web and squeeze.Now rub the web all round.Deep.Do you feel a sore spot?try all the webs on all your fingers and also do the same to the very tips of your fingers and dig your thumb into the palm of your hand too.
Those sore spots are pressure points and if they hurt then you need to rub and roll the point for a count of 7 then stop for count of 3 then repeat intell it does not hurt anymore.
Try this on your skull,your ears all over your hands.DIG IN HARD and if you can't feel the point buy it is sore then use a eraser end of a pencil to get in there and rub and roll rthe point.More info on Reflexology probably on-line a lady wrote a book on it she's in Oregon.

S man
10-20-2005, 02:23 PM
Envy
I have both stihls and robin trimmers, the robin is alot lighter. I have 3 robins and all 3 have different vibrations. Where at in nc are you at? Im 30 miles north of Danville, you could get one of my trimmers and try it before shelling out cash for one and not work out

I've seen robins trimmers before. Really compact looking.

Hey envy, I've used a stihl fs85r and hated it. It vibrated really bad and I had pain from using it. Now I have a redmax and love it. The only problem I have is I lean slightly forward and my back hurts after awhile.

S man
10-20-2005, 02:24 PM
Sheshovel, my mom knows about reflexology and it is pretty understandable.

Precision
10-20-2005, 09:40 PM
Envy,

On the Stihl have you put on a new sting head. I had a vibration issue and it ended up being the age of the head. The part that held the string was bouncing around inside the head and unbalancing it. $12 or so, quick and easy to see if it helps. Also when you run with lots of line out, that can also create a secondary vibration when RPM's drop. Sort of a surge shudder thing. I also find this happening way more when I run .105 square line compared to .80 round line.

Another thing is if one of the clutch springs has stretched or snapped that will create vibration.

My suggestion, although with 60-80 degree slopes it may not work. But I bought a 21" 2 stroke to use where we had been trimming. The areas that are too small for a ztr / WB but can easily be handled with a 21. That alone has made my life / forearms so much better. On one property we reduced trimming form 90 minutes to 30 minutes.

I think in the end you will find that your problem is a cumulative condition contributed to by many things and thus difficult to eliminate.

Well that and hiring help so I can switch off on trimming.

sheshovel
10-20-2005, 09:44 PM
Sheshovel, my mom knows about reflexology and it is pretty understandable.

Sman,I never said you guys woulden't understand it.
I said that you probably woulden't use it.

Envy Lawn Service
10-20-2005, 11:23 PM
Envy, If you are a diabetic, you really should listen to this short ABC News brief. I have seen this stuff work over and over for many of the problems you've mentioned. This website has the news program on this special oil, go to http://www.healthtalkatlanta.com click on abc news. If you want more info email me at mjbell@genext.net I can show you the cheapest way tp buy it. Because of my back and joint problems I have to take this daily, and I almost double how far I can stringtrim, before I have to take a break, and it works fast.:cool2:
There is also a another button on the website, to click on to learn more about it.

I watched that video and listened to the whole audio file also. Heard a lot of good stuff. If it works I'm all for it. I'll be in touch.

Tom-N-Texas
10-20-2005, 11:28 PM
Man...what are the freaking odds? I've got the same dang problem (or very similar).

I've been having this weird elbow pain for the past 2 months. But it hurts only on the inside bone of my elbow. Isn't tennis elbow on the outside? I've tried everything to get it to stop hurting. Nothing works and it's not getting any better. It only hurts though if I move it in a certain direction (Like if I put my hand on the back of my head and push forward, my inner elbow hurts like crazy!)

Envy Lawn Service
10-20-2005, 11:29 PM
Just got back from Expo 2005 in Louisville. Bought something called an EZ Trim there by Innovative Concepts. It's a wheel attachment that reduces muscle strain and fatigue and gives you the correct height adjustment. Company is located in Nashville...call toll free at 1-866-223-1905. I think it cost about $29.95. I had very regular shoulder pain from the strain and this has almost eliminated it.

I made one of those a few years ago. Worked good, but I found out quick that it needed to be molded out of high impact plastic so it would be lighter. I'll have to check into that one more.... thanks!

Envy Lawn Service
10-20-2005, 11:41 PM
sheshovel,

I'm gonna have to look up these pressure points.
When I start hunting these, I find too many sore places to really be sure.
Boy... my hands are a mess...

Envy Lawn Service
10-20-2005, 11:43 PM
Man...what are the freaking odds? I've got the same dang problem (or very similar).

I've been having this weird elbow pain for the past 2 months. But it hurts only on the inside bone of my elbow. Isn't tennis elbow on the outside? I've tried everything to get it to stop hurting. Nothing works and it's not getting any better. It only hurts though if I move it in a certain direction (Like if I put my hand on the back of my head and push forward, my inner elbow hurts like crazy!)

Search for 'Golfer's Elbow' on the web.... I got that going on also.

Envy Lawn Service
10-20-2005, 11:58 PM
Hey envy, I've used a stihl fs85r and hated it. It vibrated really bad and I had pain from using it. Now I have a redmax and love it. The only problem I have is I lean slightly forward and my back hurts after awhile.

The 'leaning' is what I had going on with the Stihl before.
So eventually I added the J-Handle to help with that.
But I believe that addition was part of my problem.
So I took it off.

I think it was just harder to keep the trimmer under control with it. So I developed a part-time habit that just canceled out part or why I added it in the first place. I dunno if anyone else does this, but I was allowing myself to 'arm-bar' the trimmer. I'd allow my right forearm to come in contact with the engine cover as a way to wedge for support and control. Not only does this over-work the shoulder, arm, wrist, hand and grip... but it also makes me subject to more vibration right off the engine cover.

Otherwise, my Stihl is pretty smooth feeling. A little vibration, but not much.

Envy Lawn Service
10-21-2005, 12:12 AM
Precision,

No I haven't replaced the string head. All seems to be in order there. But if I can grab one off the shelf for a reasonable price I'll pick one up.

As for the surge/shutter thing... yeah I'm getting that at low rpm. Feels like a jerk, like when the string strikes something it can't cut. It's a pretty solid set of single clanks/jerks that settles out with more RPM. The shock value of that may be increased by the line I'm testing.

As for the rest, I have a Toro 2 cycle, which I spent a lot of time personally addressing the bugs it had. But a lot of these areas are just way too steep. Can't keep it on them.

But yeah, I certainly believe my whole issue is cumulative....
So I'll keep working at things one step at a time.

As for the

Precision
10-21-2005, 02:15 PM
I "arm bar" my Stihl all the time. That is the only way it feels comfortable to me. otherwise it seems to add stress to the wrist on my trigger hand.

I am not tall 5'9" on a tall day. So that may make some difference.

I also notice that when I trim for more than 30 minutes straight, I have to mentally make myself relax my grip. Seems like as my hands/arms get tired I try to compensate by gripping the ring and throttle like it might run away. So now after 20 minutes I make sure to change my grip every few minutes to make sure I have a relaxed grip. Seems to help with fatigue and numbness.

another idea might be to trim part of the property on arrival, then mow, then trim another area, then edge. Something to give yourself a bit of a break. May not always be practical, but even some would help.