One fitting, one tool, for all winterizing jobs

[Critical Care]

Irrigation winterizations: the only standard in the industry is that there are no standards.

I don’t know about you guys, but I spend a lot of time having to switch from adapter to another, or from one fitting to another before ever getting to start the compressor at a jobsite. Needless to say this is getting pretty old. When efficiency depends upon time management, this is beginning to have an effect upon getting things done in a timely manner.

I wonder… Is there some type of universal fitting that collapses or expands to connect or attach onto ½” to 1” or greater MPT risers? How about some type of large box wrench type of tool that could be used on various sizes of threaded caps? And wouldn’t it be nice if this tool could unscrew the cap while at the same time hold the stub (riser) secure?

[Dirty Water]

If only everyone installed a nice quick connect :)

I remember Rainbird made a quick connect valve for winterizations, I see it every now and then here.

I carry a pair of channel locks with me, they work for most things.

[Wet_Boots]

I always figured a hose bib was an ideal winterizing connector. You could even do bigger systems with a garden hose adapter in a ball valve. Customers too cheap to spring for an upgrade from that plug or cap might be more trouble than they're worth.

[PurpHaze]

I always figured a hose bib was an ideal winterizing connector. You could even do bigger systems with a garden hose adapter in a ball valve. Customers too cheap to spring for an upgrade from that plug or cap might be more trouble than they're worth.

Maybe you could "require" a certain type connection, i.e. the hose bibb with standard 3/4" MHT on it? Figure the cost of the hose bibb and add it onto the winterization price. If the customer stays with you then it's already in place for the next winter.

[Dirty Water]

I'm thinking that a few of those Dawn KwikRepair threaded tees with a hose bib threaded in would be a great thing to carry on the truck, I'd keep 1" and 1.25" ones. Then all you would do is dig up 10" or so of the mainline, snap that puppy in there, and backfill it in a 6" round valvebox.

Charge the customer for "updateing their system for winterization next year" and your set.

Should only take 10 minutes or so.

[Wet_Boots]

I thought about it, but I also thought about a brass boiler drain threaded into a PVC tee, and what could happen if a hose attached to it got pulled too hard, and who would get blamed for it. If there is some repair work needed in the above-ground plumbing, I usually manage to get one in.

[jcom]

95% of our jobs have the hose bib installed so our main fitting takes care of most. Others we will blow out through the backflow if possible or they have to pay to have us install a decent blowout point.

John:waving:

[Critical Care]

95% of our jobs have the hose bib installed so our main fitting takes care of most. Others we will blow out through the backflow if possible or they have to pay to have us install a decent blowout point.

Well, there you go. 99% of the systems out here do not use hose bibs. It is very typical to just have a capped schedule 80 riser screwed through a couple of ells into a Tee after the backflow. Generally this stub is in the same box as the double check. I do run into some quick connects.

I carry a pair of channel locks with me, they work for most things.

Jon, I also carry duct tape that works for most things.

[Broker]

Hose bibbs used to be popular but with codes changing you have to put that little anit syphen (sp?) on it now so nothing can flow back in. Keep in mind that most of ours are before the backflows. I usually approach a home with 3 things a screw driver, channel locks and all of my fittings are threaded into each other and just take off whatever is need for the home. Last week I got back into the truck without remembering the screwdriver was still in my back pocket and stabbed the seat pretty good.

[jcom]

Which seat??:D

[Broker]

Thankfully not my seat but the car seat.

[PurpHaze]

Which seat??:D

In my experience it would be BOTH seats. :rolleyes:

[PurpHaze]

Hose bibbs used to be popular but with codes changing you have to put that little anit syphen (sp?) on it now so nothing can flow back in. Keep in mind that most of ours are before the backflows. I usually approach a home with 3 things a screw driver, channel locks and all of my fittings are threaded into each other and just take off whatever is need for the home. Last week I got back into the truck without remembering the screwdriver was still in my back pocket and stabbed the seat pretty good.

Guess what it boils down to since each of you winterizing guys run into all types of blow-out connections would to have a special box with nipples, adapters, tape, tools, etc. all set up so no matter what you run into you'd be able to make a quicker connection without having to make a bunch of trips back to the truck.

[Squizzy246B]

Please excuse me but what on earth is "winterization"?...just asking...see below signature:) Assume its something to do with things getting a bit cold in your part of the world.

[PurpHaze]

Please excuse me but what on earth is "winterization"?...just asking...see below signature:) Assume its something to do with things getting a bit cold in your part of the world.

Smart arse Aussies! :rolleyes:

Hard to relate when our winters are YOUR summers. :p

We don't run into it either in central California except for the occasional above-ground freeze where we might wrap backflows ahead of time.

[PurpHaze]

Please excuse me but what on earth is "winterization"?...just asking...see below signature.

Winterization: draining and blowing all the water out of an irrigation system so the yearly freezing winter temperatures don't break all the irrigation goodies apart. :)

[Critical Care]

I carry around a five gallon bucket full of adapters and fittings, as well as some tools and tape, for blowing out systems. But still, it takes time to screw around with all of this stuff. In some weird situations I've had to take a bit of time just trying to figure out how to hookup to some screwball fitting, you know, adapt to an adapter that's hooked up to another adapter that's turned inside out type of thing. When this happens, the bloody thing generally ends up being around two feet in length.

[PurpHaze]

Gotta admit that since I don't winterize I can't appreciate all the various problems you guys run into. Seems to me that as long as there is a nipple of some kind take their adapter off and put your own favorite adapter on. Do the winterization and then replace their adapter. Either that or make a service out of "updating" their adapter to something that is commonly used nowadays by a lot of the guys in your area.

[Wet_Boots]

Hose bibbs used to be popular but with codes changing you have to put that little anit syphen (sp?) on it now so nothing can flow back in.That does cause a problem, although one might employ one of the removable hose-bib-vacuum-breakers on the thing. I wonder if one of the 'lockshield' hose bibs (the ones with no handle, and a rim that prevents you from grabbing the stem with pliers) would pass an inspector's scrutiny.

What I don't see, in the having to carry a bucketful of adapters and such, is where one can't simply go back to some threaded connection, and connect a boiler drain there, and go to the garden hose threads. I usually see only 1/2, 3/4, and (rarely) one inch plugs or caps. (and quit typing faster than me, Haze)

[Broker]

Winterizations is the best work. Usually at a house less then 15 minutes depending on size of system. I know I should not connect to a test port but that is the only location on some systems.

[Dirty Water]

Winterizations is the best work. Usually at a house less then 15 minutes depending on size of system. I know I should not connect to a test port but that is the only location on some systems.

We connect to test cocks all the time....for years.

As far as I know, we've never damaged a backflow doing this.

[PurpHaze]

That does cause a problem, although one might employ one of the removable hose-bib-vacuum-breakers on the thing.

Most of these in our area are easily removed. Some have a "lock pin" or "set screw" that can be loosened up with an Allen wrench. Then you just unscrew the vacuum breaker from the hose threads.

I wonder if one of the 'lockshield' hose bibs (the ones with no handle, and a rim that prevents you from grabbing the stem with pliers) would pass an inspector's scrutiny.

They're referred to as "loose key" hose bibbs here.

... and connect a boiler drain there, and go to the garden hose threads.

Not knowing what a "boiler drain" was I had to finally look it up. Just looks like an angled garden valve with standard 3/4" MHT on it.

(and quit typing faster than me, Haze)

Actually I'm a "hunt and peck" keyboarder. :p

[PurpHaze]

OK gang... If I'm designing a sprinkler system in cold weather areas what size blow-out POC would be necessary for systems with different sized main lines?

1. 1" and below?

2. 1-1/4" to 2-1/2"?

3. 3" - 8"?

[Archer]

I use to work for a contractor in Ohio and we blew everything out through the meter. We would carry a couple of different sizes of set ups. A meter nut on one side screwed onto a PVC male adapter followed by a tee where the compressor would hook in and another PVC male adapter on the other end. We'd pull the meter, slide in our contraption and winterize away. As far as I know the local water department was ok with it. Most don't like us messin' with their meter's - like it's a holy thing.

[Dirty Water]

We can't touch the meters, also a lot of homes here are on private wells.

[Wet_Boots]

Some meters are 'wired' in place, with a seal. My intent is to never have to enter the home to do the winterizing. Lots of old systems had the blowout connection in the basement. (dumb, sez me)

For a winterizing connection, the good old hose bib will go far, with an eye kept on the inner opening size. A sliding scale might go from cheap import hose bib or boiler drain, to 'premium' boiler drain, to garden angle valve, to a ball valve with a garden hose adapter in it.

[Critical Care]

I finished blowing out a farm that had 2" dirty water lines run throughout a couple of fields, and up to a home with 7 zones of 1". The best place, and most upstream location, to hook the compressor up to was at a hose bib near one of the fields. That job took forever.

To answer your question, Hayes, I would think that ideally the larger the blow out POC up to the size of the main line the better. Of course, if everyone uses 1" hoses with their compressors, then what good would it be to have larger POCs? But, the above job mentioned sure would have gone faster if I had a nice 1" capped off stub to hook up to... imo.

[Critical Care]

Jon, it seems like a gamble to try to push large volumes of air through the checks.

This hookup below is what I use to flush water out from the device, but just out of the device and nothing more.

[PurpHaze]

To answer your question, Hayes, I would think that ideally the larger the blow out POC up to the size of the main line the better. Of course, if everyone uses 1" hoses with their compressors, then what good would it be to have larger POCs? But, the above job mentioned sure would have gone faster if I had a nice 1" capped off stub to hook up to... imo.

That's what I was wondering. With that maximum size hose I was wondering what the maximum size main line it would blow out. Somehow it seems that a point would be reached where the main might be too big for the compressor. Just guessing and someone can feel free to set me straight.

I know that automatic and manual drain valves can be installed which would aid the process but am not up on how much CFM/PSI it would take to blow out a large main.

[PurpHaze]

Some meters are 'wired' in place, with a seal. My intent is to never have to enter the home to do the winterizing. Lots of old systems had the blowout connection in the basement. (dumb, sez me)

I've noticed that many of the irrigation sites show it this way. Some also show the same configuration but with a stub just outside the exterior wall as a POC for blowing out.

[bicmudpuppy]

That's what I was wondering. With that maximum size hose I was wondering what the maximum size main line it would blow out. Somehow it seems that a point would be reached where the main might be too big for the compressor. Just guessing and someone can feel free to set me straight.

I know that automatic and manual drain valves can be installed which would aid the process but am not up on how much CFM/PSI it would take to blow out a large main.
Air is more fluid than water. I don't know what the maximum size main vs cfm would be, but I've blown a 160 acre tee to green golf course w/ 3 and 4" main using a 185 and dual 1" hoses both hoses conected to 1" buckner quick couplers. Most zones were 2" and yes it was an all day afair, but we were real close to 100 zones too. The 185 kept up win multiple zones open. Someone else can do the math. I've always been a fan of using a tow behind, but I've always had to rent one. I will not be winterizing my one large mainline commercial this year, and I refuse to continue to sub for the contractor who has the other large mainline I used to do, so I am seriously considering purchasing a 12cfm 6.5hp gas compressor to throw in the back of the truck this year.

[PurpHaze]

Air is more fluid than water. I don't know what the maximum size main vs cfm would be, but I've blown a 160 acre tee to green golf course w/ 3 and 4" main using a 185 and dual 1" hoses both hoses conected to 1" buckner quick couplers. Most zones were 2" and yes it was an all day afair, but we were real close to 100 zones too. The 185 kept up win multiple zones open. Someone else can do the math. I've always been a fan of using a tow behind, but I've always had to rent one. I will not be winterizing my one large mainline commercial this year, and I refuse to continue to sub for the contractor who has the other large mainline I used to do, so I am seriously considering purchasing a 12cfm 6.5hp gas compressor to throw in the back of the truck this year.

Downsizing, eh? :)

[Critical Care]

Will a 185 cfm compressor blow out several inches of water standing inside of a 50 gallon barrel with one inlet and one outlet at the top?

Will it blow out standing water within a 4” pvc line, or will it “mostly” just blow over the top of it, like it probably would with the 50 gallon barrel?

And by the way, I’m still waiting for you guys to show me one fitting for all blowouts. Is there such an animal as a variable ½” to 1” nipple or bushing?

[Wet_Boots]

Surface tension between air and water is what will sweep a pipe clean of water, given air flow in it.

Who needs one perfect adapter/fitting? If you don't have all garden hose threads to hook on to, carry some adapters and bushings. I'll keep converting plugs and caps to boiler drains and garden valves whenever possible.

[bicmudpuppy]

Downsizing, eh? :)
You could call it that. I downsized one very slow to pay contractor I used to sub for, and my largest commercial property is in the middle of a complete renovation, and this one man band didn't even try to bid 60 zones and 3" mains. All that I would have accomplished was hard feelings on an account I want back as soon as the warranty expires. Before the renovation, it was 44 zones w/ 2 1/2 and 3" mains. The new system is wall to wall 3" mains and spec'd at 2 WM mark 30's. This property has been struck by lightning 4 times in the last 6 years. Any bets on the Mark series controllers lasting through the warranty period?

[PurpHaze]

And by the way, I’m still waiting for you guys to show me one fitting for all blowouts. Is there such an animal as a variable ½” to 1” nipple or bushing?

Galvanized bells will go 1" to 1/2" and there are galvanized 1" x 1/2" reducer bushings. Don't know of anything that will work for winterizing that will automatically hook up to 1/2", 3/4" and 1" simply by rotating or telescoping something. There are also reducing street els and 90s that will go from one size to another.

Guess what it is really going to boil down to is that there is no such animal as a universal fitting for blowouts.

[PurpHaze]

A thought just occurred to me as far as nipples being the POC for winterization if they're out in the open a little. You could make something similar to a lug nut wrench out of a 1" galvanzied cross. One end would be for your compressor line and reduce on two of the others to 3/4" and 1/2" with plugs in the ends of couplers of the 1", 3/4" and 1/2" outlet sides. You unplug the size you need and then replace the plug afterwards.

[bicmudpuppy]

A thought just occurred to me as far as nipples being the POC for winterization if they're out in the open a little. You could make something similar to a lug nut wrench out of a 1" galvanzied cross. One end would be for your compressor line and reduce on two of the others to 3/4" and 1/2" with plugs in the ends of couplers of the 1", 3/4" and 1/2" outlet sides. You unplug the size you need and then replace the plug afterwards.
Almost every guy I've ever seen and every company I've ever worked for just used some type of tray or bucket full of parts. TxT reducers, a couple of threaded street ells, and couplings joining some long nipples. A "universal" isn't going to be flexible enough for some of the "imaginative" things your going to run into. I always liked having two or three 1/2 and 3/4 marlex ells and a 1/4" street ell for those fun spots. Reducer bushings nested from 1/4" to 1" and a 1" txt ell with a 1x3/4 RB that connects back to your hose. Everything except the nipples will fit in a half gallon bucket, #10 can, or something else similar.

[PurpHaze]

A "universal" isn't going to be flexible enough for some of the "imaginative" things your going to run into.

That's what I figured. You run into a spot where there's no room and/or run into something that was pieced together years ago.

[Critical Care]

Surface tension, Wet Boots? Maybe a drop or two of dish soap in the blow out POC would help, eh? Heh heh, can you imagine blowing out a system with soap bubbles coming out from the heads? I'd be tempted to try that just for the fun of it.

The galvanized cross idea makes sense, Hayes, however indeed it would be limited in its use in this area since most POCs are within the confines of valve boxes. A bit like your idea would be to put together a multiple “Y” or fork with a different size or type of adapter at the end of each leg. But this would mean that each leg would need a valve to close it off if not used, and the whole assembly would be cumbersome.

And right now I do use galvanized bells – as you can see in the picture I posted a while back - as well as marlex ells as part of my five-gallon bucket arsenal of widgets. Still, I would get rid of all my widgets for one doohickey… if you know what I mean.

Arrgh, me thinks mateys, that several already made up chicago to x-size adapters would work for most jobs. Just quick connect the right one. At least this could do away with a bit of screwing around, if you know what I mean. Aye?

[Mdirrigation]

Throw those chicago fittings away , I have cam lock quick couplers on the hose and the array of fittings , hooking up to almost any configuration takes less than 30 seconds .

[PurpHaze]

Surface tension, Wet Boots? Maybe a drop or two of dish soap in the blow out POC would help, eh? Heh heh, can you imagine blowing out a system with soap bubbles coming out from the heads? I'd be tempted to try that just for the fun of it.

Way cool... but watch what you ask for. :D

Reminds me of the time as a kid when Silly String first came out. Came home from a friend's evening birthday party and sprayed string all along the sidewalk and driveway thinking it would disappear by morning. Got up the next morning to deliver newspapers and to my horror it was still all over the place. Dad couldn't figure out why I'd hosed off the driveway and sidewalk that morning but he appreciated my helping out. :p

[PurpHaze]

The galvanized cross idea makes sense, Hayes, however indeed it would be limited in its use in this area since most POCs are within the confines of valve boxes. A bit like your idea would be to put together a multiple “Y” or fork with a different size or type of adapter at the end of each leg. But this would mean that each leg would need a valve to close it off if not used, and the whole assembly would be cumbersome.

Maybe something along the lines of an automatic milker would work? :cool2:

[PurpHaze]

Arrgh, me thinks mateys, that several already made up chicago to x-size adapters would work for most jobs. Just quick connect the right one. At least this could do away with a bit of screwing around, if you know what I mean. Aye?

Watched 'Pirates of the Carribean' one too many times? :blob3:

[Critical Care]

Okay, first of all Mr. Hayes, I date back to the Silly Putty days. And, I honestly wouldn't think that dish soap and glycerin would create a problem other than to give some person passing by quite a start. But which head would produce the better bubbles, MP Rotators, fixed sprays, or what?

MdIrrigation, what cam lock type of couplers are you using? I did a search for these and got a wide range of results. Since I rent compressors, and hoses, I won't be changing anything on the equipment... but I'm still curious.

[PurpHaze]

Okay, first of all Mr. Hayes, I date back to the Silly Putty days. And, I honestly wouldn't think that dish soap and glycerin would create a problem other than to give some person passing by quite a start. But which head would produce the better bubbles, MP Rotators, fixed sprays, or what?

How about trying them all and then reporting back to us? However, the MP-Rotators sound like a lot of fun. Bubbles coming out in various streams. ;)

[Mdirrigation]

The cam locks are the ones with 2 dog ears on them , the same type fitting that the gas tankers use to quick connect to hoses when they deliver fuel to service stations. I use the 1 inch size. If you are renting all you do is hook up one chichago fitting to the cam lock and you are in business .