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slicksilverado01
10-31-2005, 11:06 AM
I am looking to buy the bobcat 463 this spring. I heard both good and bad. It seems what ever product I look at anywhere net or at local retail stores/dealers there are people unhappy and happy with the product.

ok I plan on using the bobcat 463

1. to install lawns typical on 1/2-3/4 acre size lots using the harley rake

2. To trench for downspouts and run power lines to the houses.

3. have a dozer blade to push dirt, gravel, and snow in the winter at the 8 different apartment complexs that I plow. (to clear the walks). I have been plowing them for 4 years now and I always subed the walks out to other ppl.

4. to move brush with the forks and grapple (to load on truck or to a burn
pile)

5. use the forks to move some small piles of leftover building materials on the site.

6. to install posts with the post hole digger

7. to use the bucket and square up some small hills for a retaining wall

8. to also get into tight areas for landscaping.

I know skid steer can damage lawns pretty bad when turning sharp. can I run this machine on jobs to haul mulch on remulch'n jobs without doing any extensive rutting on the lawn. (and that if it the ground is dry).

I would like all the imput you guys have on this machine. I also want to know what your opinion is on it, if you own one or used one on the job and how many hours have you used it.

thanks

mark

slicksilverado01
10-31-2005, 11:34 AM
I forgot to put is in my first post. What is the going rate an hour for a small skid steer like the bobcat 463? there has been a few ppl calling me about that to get betwen close together houses with big bushes in the way. and in back yards with a fence with a 40" opening.



Thanks

Mark

Lawnworks
10-31-2005, 01:09 PM
I would probably just get a dingo tx425 or boxer mini skid. You will have to buy all attachments for the 463 new and not used. I think if the unit does not have tracks it will tear up any yard. I think you would be better off w/ a dingo even though you have to stand on the things. I would buy an ASV rc30 before that bobcat... but the rc30 is gutless.

slicksilverado01
10-31-2005, 07:46 PM
I want a sit down machine. I cant stand on a bouncy things my knees ache alot and I am 22 my knees are going to be worthless when I am 30 if I stand on that damn little walk behinds. Plus I want to be able to load from the side on a one ton with sides. I know the bobcat has foot pedel for the boom and bucket I Have used my father 773 alot and I am pretty comfy with the foot pedals and my knees. How is the 553 compared to to 463? I mean as power v power I know it is 48" wide vs 36 and weighs about 1K more.

slicksilverado01
10-31-2005, 08:32 PM
for one I hate the dingo...only 4.6" of ground clearance plus no diesel option? I am going to all diesel equipment. no more gas for me. cept the old beater truck.

UNISCAPER
11-01-2005, 12:36 AM
If you do lawn installs on half to 3/4 acre lots, a 463 or Dingo or anything less than a 6' width is the wrong tool for the job.

We run a 463 to back up the wider machines we have when they can't gain access. The 463 is a little workhorse, in my opoinion, 2 times the machine any of the stand ons are for the same money, and like everything has limitations. Those being, the cab is tight. Top heavyness. The 463 will beat you up and it is tippy. It is very limited in larger work, so, if it is a Bobcat you want, look at the 7, or 8 series.

heather lawn sp
11-01-2005, 05:23 AM
Ditto to above^ opinion.

Don't forget that for all its Bobcat characteristics the 463 can only lift 700lbs.
We stick to maintenance no construction, and it suits us just fine, but I would not feel confident taking it into full construction jobs. Stick with the larger machines

In regards to snow we love it, again with limitations.It will load salters, but only the size for pick-up trucks. In apts and townhouses, it will out-plow a truck in very tight situations. We got the SB 150 attachment last year and not much will stop it. sidewalk clearing and chewing through frozen snowbanks.

miacharger
11-01-2005, 09:39 PM
I have to admit that the 4 series Bobcats are too tiny to be comfortable. I have used a M-610 for many years around the house, and have moved trees, done grading and moved mulch all over the place, on my lawn and some others. I did see a 4 series Bobcat in use and it got stuck in the mud after a quick rain. Unless you're using it for construction cleanup or very tiny city lots, I would go with a 7 series machine if possible. I think that any machine narrower than 5 feet is a bit too unstable for work on soft surfaces. As for damaging lawns it really depends on who will operate the machine. When I do mulching I make sure that no turns are very tight and never tear up much grass. When the bucket is empty you can wheelie for the turns to prevent digging in. I wouldn't try that with a 4 series Bobcat. Adding tracks doesn't really seem to help, in fact I think they rip up more grass. You may also consider using a forklift type attachment like the forkster which allows you to lift up the front or rear to stop the skidding. Also using wider but smooth tires reduces the chance of ruts. THis may not be possible on a small machine.

chuckers
11-01-2005, 10:17 PM
check out the mt52 or the mt 55 they are great machines. Bobcat also offers the diesel opt in both the 52 and 55 as a matter of fact i think it is standard

slicksilverado01
11-02-2005, 02:20 PM
all right guys I have been doing some checking and am now looking really the s130 is slightly out of budget.

I did notice the 553 at 48" wide compared to 36" on the 463 plus ROC is 950 compared to 700 on the 463 it has a slightly bigger engine and more gpm on the hydro pump. I am really looking into getting into specialized work in tighter areas. everyone around here has a 773 or bigger but not a smaller one. same with excavators. also there are no more lots that are 3/4 acre they are all under 1/2 an acre. I want to buy the bobcat 553 so I dont have to rent alot of equipment anymore. I normally install 20 yards and landscape (on new homes) a year in 5 different neighborhoods. and relandscape 35 homes. I wish I can afford a bigger unit. I have a wife and 2 kids (one is 1 years old and the other 10 months) to feed and house payments.

Well I am going to the dealer pretty in a few hours. I am still going to look at the s130...

mark

slicksilverado01
11-02-2005, 02:22 PM
hey miacharger

do you use a skid loader to haul mulch to beds on remulching jobs? if so what skid loader do you use?


thanks

mark

miacharger
11-03-2005, 11:14 AM
Mark, I use an M-610 for all remulching, and although it's slow and old, it always does a great job. At one time this was done with our Ford tractor, but all the forward/reverse motion would wear out the clutch too fast and it is too wide to fit on the walkways between the raised beds. Some here are 12 inches above grade, made of poured concrete and with the Bobcat I can pile up dirt and go right in, dig out the old plantings and add new soil, fabric and mulch. You have to watch out for compaction, but so far the plantings have been as close to perfect as anyone can hope. FInal finishing is always by hand anyway.

slicksilverado01
11-03-2005, 09:09 PM
hey I just got done demoing the bobcat 553, the s130 and s185, the mt55.

and I have to say the 553 is really bouncey but had plenty of power and worked well. the dealer wanted 18.5K for it!! which surprised me. the s130 only being 700 buck more was a better "deal" then I drove the s185 and liked it the best. but it did more turf damage then I wanted (it was on damp ground). the mt55 did well and did not tear the turf up, unless doing a 360. but I did not like the price way too much for the unit they want 18.5K same as the 553. well I stoped at the thomas dealer which is a 10 minute walk from my house. I am demoing the 35-dt tomorrow. I am demoing it with the 4 in 1 bucket, trencher, forks with beak, grapple, blade, and harley rake. the thomas 35-dt is 15.2K at my dealer. I priced all the attachments and the unit for under 25K does this sound like a good price for the thomas??

thanks

mark

(p.s. I know I said I needed a sit down unit because of my knees but I am going to have micro surgerey on them this winter so I will have like new knees so I decided to go the walk behind route ((and it really due to the price)).)

miacharger
11-03-2005, 10:42 PM
That's a pretty thorough demonstration, around here they don't have any place except a rock filled lot to test machines, I have never heard of grass for testing out loaders. Tracked machines seem to work well on soft ground, but can be pricey when the rubber tracks finally wear out. I do remember seeing a machine at a site with smooth tracks but can't remember who made it. I have seen the 25 GT thomas in action digging for laying fiber optic cable , but as I remember the guy operating it hit himself on a tree branch because he was too busy looking at the receptionist outside smoking a cigarrette! The tracks were worn almost flat, and that's because the machine was used a lot on concrete and asphalt. as I remeber, though it still sank in leaving ruts in the grass on the shady (wet) side of the building. The trencher worked really well , even in coral rock! So you're going to a stand up machine? Not sure how bad your knees are, but it seems like it would take a while to heal from an operation. At least the ride would be a lot less bumpy than a wheeled loader. Also mini-track loaders are slower than wheeled skid-steers, see how it feels during the demo.

With all this chat about new machines, it kind of makes me want to go and try some out, anyone know a good dealer in the south Florida area? I have always been curious how it feels to operate a hydrostatic machine.

slicksilverado01
11-04-2005, 09:28 PM
That's a pretty thorough demonstration, around here they don't have any place except a rock filled lot to test machines, I have never heard of grass for testing out loaders. Tracked machines seem to work well on soft ground, but can be pricey when the rubber tracks finally wear out. I do remember seeing a machine at a site with smooth tracks but can't remember who made it. I have seen the 25 GT thomas in action digging for laying fiber optic cable , but as I remember the guy operating it hit himself on a tree branch because he was too busy looking at the receptionist outside smoking a cigarrette! The tracks were worn almost flat, and that's because the machine was used a lot on concrete and asphalt. as I remeber, though it still sank in leaving ruts in the grass on the shady (wet) side of the building. The trencher worked really well , even in coral rock! So you're going to a stand up machine? Not sure how bad your knees are, but it seems like it would take a while to heal from an operation. At least the ride would be a lot less bumpy than a wheeled loader. Also mini-track loaders are slower than wheeled skid-steers, see how it feels during the demo.

With all this chat about new machines, it kind of makes me want to go and try some out, anyone know a good dealer in the south Florida area? I have always been curious how it feels to operate a hydrostatic machine.

I am having the operation on my knees next week so they have all winter to heal. my grandfather had the same operation done and he was walking around in a week(didnt walk much) he was back to himself...his "younger" self in 2 months so I have plenty of time to rest up for next season.

they brought out the bobcat equipment to my 300 acre farm land I own. it has steep hills, swampy areas, real fine grassy areas, wooded areas. I pretty much have a little bit of every type of terrian I will run into. they brought it on a semi and a 550 flatbed. (takes one hour to get to my land from the dealer) I tested all that stuff out all day.



and today just got down demoing the thomas 35-dt. all I have to say is wow. it is 100 times better then the bobcat. it travel at 4.5 or was it 5 mph? well it was fast for a track unit. It does super on steeps hills (even going sideways) the attachments are really heavy duty. the grapple is really nice to pick up logs to a good height then using the old chain saw and cut it up. it keeps the cahin from hitting dirt plus it doesnt wear you out trying to roll the log to cut the other side(when on ground) the trencher worked awsome and had tons of power. the forks and beak did ok on brush. I was told they do make an actual brush grapple the fork and beck was for logs and oddly shaped objects. the 4 in one bucket worked really well. and the harley rake worked just like how it is suppose to... extremely well. the thomas 35-dt did not leave any ruts on dry or wet grass(watered down an area to see if it will rut or not) it went through some really swampy area that my friends s185 with tracks get stuck and the thomas just went through it like it was dry land. worked good in soupy mud, really sticky mud. the platform is comfortable and the controls are easy to use. it has a button for low speed or high speed traveling. it has a switch for the hydro attachment to give more power to it and take away some from the wheels. it also has a knob for it to adjust it even more for what ever need you need.... o yeah the blade worked great at back filling the trench and pushing dirt around.
the rubber tracks for the thomas when used about 50% of the time on pavement and 50% of time on grass/dirt/gravel was about 1000 hours. which is a fact for 5 different owners around here. they run for around $1200 for a pair. I think the tracks are worth it. no flats, better traction, less rutting= good enough for me:blob3:


oh the smooth tracks are green? they are on the avs skids.

miacharger
11-05-2005, 08:41 AM
It really seems like the 35-dt is a great machine, and fits your needs well. 1200 hours on tracks isn't bad, most tires don't even make it to 300 hours and the track replacement would be cheaper then. Also great that you tested it out on your land so you controlled the conditions. No surprise to me that a tracked machine would outperform a Bobcat S185 but it's a surprise that the Thomas didn't leave ruts in wet soft soil. I wouldn't expect it to turn in such conditions without tearing something up though. You're right about the asv skid loaders, that's where I saw smooth tracks and as I remember they didn't damage grass even though they were moving trees with it and turning right on the lawn. By the way, you have 300 acres of empty space? THose days are long gone around here, most people live crammed right next to each other, no wonder the small sized loaders are so popular here

slicksilverado01
11-05-2005, 11:10 PM
It really seems like the 35-dt is a great machine, and fits your needs well. 1200 hours on tracks isn't bad, most tires don't even make it to 300 hours and the track replacement would be cheaper then. Also great that you tested it out on your land so you controlled the conditions. No surprise to me that a tracked machine would outperform a Bobcat S185 but it's a surprise that the Thomas didn't leave ruts in wet soft soil. I wouldn't expect it to turn in such conditions without tearing something up though. You're right about the asv skid loaders, that's where I saw smooth tracks and as I remember they didn't damage grass even though they were moving trees with it and turning right on the lawn. By the way, you have 300 acres of empty space? THose days are long gone around here, most people live crammed right next to each other, no wonder the small sized loaders are so popular here


the 35-dt made a slight dimple in the ground on wet grass. a wheel barrow does just as much harm loaded up so it does good in my book.

I say a video of an avs loader with the turf track driving full speed then doing a 360 and keeps on going with out any turf damage. well at least from what I can see from the video.

I inharited the 300acres from my grandmother that passed away two years ago. she used to own 10,000 of acres but sold some land when she needed it after my grandfathers accidental death. he slipped off the loft in the barn fell down hit his head while falling through an opening causeing him to flip 4-5 times really fast down to the pig pen and embeded a pitchfork that was stand with the tines up leaning through the fence. there were 5 witnesses. so there is only 300 acres left. I did all the work for her around the house. I maintained the 4 big bank barns, and house. my parents never helped they were always busy working and all my relitives live in alaska. so thats how I inharited the land all her money she had. there is about 200 acres of fields (150 that is farmed by local farmers) and 100 acres of dense woods. I absolutly love the land.

I plan on developing 100-200 acres of the land. my father is a contractor and builds spec homes. I need to save up some money to develope the land though. it is really expensive to do that but makes lots of money when selling lots.

mark

o yeah..... the thomas 35-dt is going to be sitting on my trailer next spring w/ the trencher attachment, auger, brush grapple, harley rake, and 4 in 1 bucket. my wife just left me last night and took the my two kids with her. I have no note from her but my mother in law told me that I wasnt fair by not letting her daughter have any credit cards?? really ticks me off :realmad: :realmad: . I havent heard from her yet, but I am getting the divorce papers ready. luckly she signed an agreement if we seperated she gets nothing of mine and I get nothing of hers and I get the kids in the summer and on holidays and she gets them the rest of the time. god I am so gald I did that agreement.

UNISCAPER
11-06-2005, 10:33 AM
"I say a video of an avs loader with the turf track driving full speed then doing a 360 and keeps on going with out any turf damage. well at least from what I can see from the video."

I would love to see the conditions under the sod before I saw the video. We had an RC-30, and currently have 2, 257B Cats. Here's my experience. If you drive repeatedly over any turf, you will rut it up. If you spin 360° turns, first, with a track machine you should be doing 3 point turns, as full 360° will wreck tracks faster. Second, you will wreck turf, just not as fast as a wheel machine. They are better, but still not that silver bullet. We carry around several sheets of 1.25" thick roofing plywood and spread the load over lawns. That works great no matter what you drive off or on. We have had our TH103 CAT high lift (extendable lift) system and no ruts.

mmacsek
11-06-2005, 06:40 PM
Ditto to above^ opinion.

Don't forget that for all its Bobcat characteristics the 463 can only lift 700lbs.
We stick to maintenance no construction, and it suits us just fine, but I would not feel confident taking it into full construction jobs. Stick with the larger machines

In regards to snow we love it, again with limitations.It will load salters, but only the size for pick-up trucks. In apts and townhouses, it will out-plow a truck in very tight situations. We got the SB 150 attachment last year and not much will stop it. sidewalk clearing and chewing through frozen snowbanks.
I also do maint. work, no installs, and I'm toying with the idea of a small loader. I was thinking of a Dingo but the field is wide open. I'm looking to speed up mulch jobs and possibly for snow. My question, How do you get the Bobcat to the jobsite when there is snow on the ground? I hope i didn't hijack the thread because that wasn't the intent. Thanks Matt

Gilla Gorilla
11-06-2005, 08:27 PM
My Bobcat dealer sells a set of 8' aluminum ramps that are rated at 3,000 pounds. My buddy has a Bobcat 443 and he uses those ramps to load that into the back of his F250. I used them before when I had to get a load of stone in the trailer, just loaded the bobcat in the bed of my F350 with the ramps and it helped eliminate a second trip back to the shop to get the bobcat. I have been thinking of getting a set for my Dingo to load it into my truck bed for snow removal instead of hauling the trailer across town.

Oh yeah he bought them a couple years back for around $500.00

ChestnutOaks
11-06-2005, 08:58 PM
wow, Ive never heard of anyone putting them in the bed of the truck, guess it doesnt snow enough around here to worry about that.

mmacsek - we just bought a vermeer s600tx mini skid steer track machine and its the trick. The best mini-skid out there IMO. Its built 10x better than a dingo or kanga, etc. We demo'd all of them in kentucky last month and decided that vermeer was the best one. If not vermeer, definitely boxer. It came down to price on those, and suprisingly vermeer had a better price, along with the 4in1 bucket and auger with 2 bits. Its a track machine with a 25hp kubota diesel, and we have done 2 mulch jobs thus far with good success. Also, planted several B&B trees, with the vermeer picking them up easily. After buying this machine, we are seriously thinking of selling the 773 bobcat just because the mini-skid is so much more versatile and can do most of the things the bobcat can.

slicksilverado01
11-07-2005, 10:19 PM
"I say a video of an avs loader with the turf track driving full speed then doing a 360 and keeps on going with out any turf damage. well at least from what I can see from the video."

I would love to see the conditions under the sod before I saw the video. We had an RC-30, and currently have 2, 257B Cats. Here's my experience. If you drive repeatedly over any turf, you will rut it up. If you spin 360° turns, first, with a track machine you should be doing 3 point turns, as full 360° will wreck tracks faster. Second, you will wreck turf, just not as fast as a wheel machine. They are better, but still not that silver bullet. We carry around several sheets of 1.25" thick roofing plywood and spread the load over lawns. That works great no matter what you drive off or on. We have had our TH103 CAT high lift (extendable lift) system and no ruts.

opps I made a typo... I seen...well it should be I have seen...but what the heck. yeah I found a video on the net of the rc30 doing a 180 or 360 pretty fast then going off and from the vid it shows no damage which cant be possible. it wasnt a high quality video either so there could be damge but just cant see it.

slicksilverado01
11-07-2005, 10:22 PM
wow, Ive never heard of anyone putting them in the bed of the truck, guess it doesnt snow enough around here to worry about that.

mmacsek - we just bought a vermeer s600tx mini skid steer track machine and its the trick. The best mini-skid out there IMO. Its built 10x better than a dingo or kanga, etc. We demo'd all of them in kentucky last month and decided that vermeer was the best one. If not vermeer, definitely boxer. It came down to price on those, and suprisingly vermeer had a better price, along with the 4in1 bucket and auger with 2 bits. Its a track machine with a 25hp kubota diesel, and we have done 2 mulch jobs thus far with good success. Also, planted several B&B trees, with the vermeer picking them up easily. After buying this machine, we are seriously thinking of selling the 773 bobcat just because the mini-skid is so much more versatile and can do most of the things the bobcat can.

what did you pay for the vermeer s600tx, if you dont mind me asking. but I pretty much set that I want the thomas 35-dt. also there isnt a vermeer dealer near here...

slicksilverado01
11-07-2005, 10:24 PM
I also do maint. work, no installs, and I'm toying with the idea of a small loader. I was thinking of a Dingo but the field is wide open. I'm looking to speed up mulch jobs and possibly for snow. My question, How do you get the Bobcat to the jobsite when there is snow on the ground? I hope i didn't hijack the thread because that wasn't the intent. Thanks Matt


ahhh hijacker now I need to.....:realmad: :realmad: :realmad: J/K :p i dont mind if you hijack/ask a question

edit: well to get it to the jobsite with snow would be to drive it. lol I mean put it on a flat bed car hauler would be the safest.

slicksilverado01
11-07-2005, 10:26 PM
My Bobcat dealer sells a set of 8' aluminum ramps that are rated at 3,000 pounds. My buddy has a Bobcat 443 and he uses those ramps to load that into the back of his F250. I used them before when I had to get a load of stone in the trailer, just loaded the bobcat in the bed of my F350 with the ramps and it helped eliminate a second trip back to the shop to get the bobcat. I have been thinking of getting a set for my Dingo to load it into my truck bed for snow removal instead of hauling the trailer across town.

Oh yeah he bought them a couple years back for around $500.00

I bet those ramps have to be pretty long does he put them against the tailgate? or take the gate off and uses the bed? that has got to be dangerous...

Gilla Gorilla
11-07-2005, 10:38 PM
Slick It was extreamly scary when I loaded it the first time, especially since I did not wear the seat belt in the 443 since I thought that it was broken. LOL

You have to take the tailgate off which is only a couple of seconds on the Fords then back it up the ramps and keep the bucket as low as it can be. Also it has two cables with hooks on each ramp to keep them from slipping off.

slicksilverado01
11-07-2005, 11:08 PM
Slick It was extreamly scary when I loaded it the first time, especially since I did not wear the seat belt in the 443 since I thought that it was broken. LOL

You have to take the tailgate off which is only a couple of seconds on the Fords then back it up the ramps and keep the bucket as low as it can be. Also it has two cables with hooks on each ramp to keep them from slipping off.

yeah always wear your seat belt my uncle never wore his belt on his 773 and it tipped forward he slipped out from the safety bar and knocked his four front teeth out on the boom. ouch and stupid is all I got to say on that. now he wears his belt all the time.

I bet it is scary for a few times but at least you are safe with the roll cage around you.

Gilla Gorilla
11-07-2005, 11:20 PM
I might get a win a bid for installing 35 Arborvitae about 90 minutes south of where I live. I know it is a long drive for a install but would be nice money for a days worth of work and not having to guaruntee the trees. But anyways If I get it I might have to borrow these ramps and drive my TX420 Dingo with the 30" auger bit into the bed of my truck. I am not looking forward to that.

ChestnutOaks
11-08-2005, 11:52 PM
what did you pay for the vermeer s600tx, if you dont mind me asking. but I pretty much set that I want the thomas 35-dt. also there isnt a vermeer dealer near here...

Hope your sitting down...............



$25,000 - thats with 4 in 1 bucket, low speed high torque powerhead and an 18" and 36" bit. Here's a pic.....

slicksilverado01
11-09-2005, 07:33 PM
Hope your sitting down...............



$25,000 - thats with 4 in 1 bucket, low speed high torque powerhead and an 18" and 36" bit. Here's a pic.....

wow that is so awsome:eek:. the closest dealer to me is about 73 mins away which is a too far. the price seems steep but I bet it is worth the money. but even 20K is out of my reach for a unit. the thomas dealer rents the harley rake, auger, trencher, grapple, forks w/ beak, the forkster (that fork lift attachment that can pick a pallat of bricks? or somthing heavy), mulch bucket, and brush grapple. they have 3 of every attachment except only 2 of the harley rake. I can get the thomas 35-dt for 15.5K with two buckets the standard and the mulch. plus they sell the rental ones yearly but not sure on the price. the thomas dealer is really close and have good hours.

thanks for showing the pic of the unit. I really like it the best but I will have to settle for my second favorite which as you have read the thomas 35-dt