Saturation To The Max!

[Charles]

Was out riding around yesterday and it was unbelievable the amount of lawn care people out there. We have has alot of layoffs lately and it seems they all went into cutting grass. From scrubs with compact cars pulling 8 foot trailors and home owner equipment to the big rigs with 2 to 4 mowers. All working overtime on a saturday on into the evening. Just from the few errands I had to run I saw at least 20 outfits either driving or mowing. It was kinda depressing, but i am sure alot will drop out. But some of the big rigs I saw last year and they made it through the drought. I have ads in the phone book and the paper and no calls so far and I can see why. When you market is saturated like this its going to make it hard to replace customers. I lost a good many through no fault of my own during the winter. Its impossible to go up on prices this year either with customers being hit on by the upstart competition. I have never lost business i have been servicing already to the competition. Lawn services have multiplied like rabbits in the past 10 years. Wonder what the situation will be like in 5 years if it keeps up like this. I am expanding the services I offer and am putting lees emphesis on the grass cutting end of it. Lo0ks like we are going the way of fla when it comes to grass cutting.

[eggy]

Charles..I do belive you are doing the right thing, by adding different services other then mowing. My focus as of late has been commercial mowing and other landscape services. The number of "grass mowers" here is crazy. I am seeing prices go down in mowing year after year, however last year around August we picked up more new customers then in the first of the season. You are right many will drop out after they see it takes a lot to make anything .

[Freetime]

Bark at them as they go by! Rrrr!

[Scape Sculptor]

There is a Bumper Crop of them this year!!! I am trying to not let it get to me, but customers only care about price. Even after getting burned by lowballers , year after year. I am diverifying and keeping a first class professional image and sticking to my guns on price as much as I can. I am still charging less than what I should be getting.

[Fantasy Lawns]

we're all lawn monkey's down here .....and it's a ZOO

Providing as much professional & quality service is key ......being able to do it all in a reliable & consistent manner ... help's keep the "Flea's" away but they are everywhere .....educating the customer to things like insurance, licensing & worker with WC ...performing the work while they are NOT home allows them to COME home to a perfect lawn & not have alot of noise around during dinner time or weekends

[Nathan]

I agree with everyone else that professionalism is the key. However, most of us that have been doing this for a while will agree that until now, forums like this were very rare. The only way you could access the knowledge of others in the industry was by joining a professional organization. To do this most require proof of contractors license. I beleive this is good because it does keep many of the scrubs from getting "insider information". I am not saying that this forum is bad for our industry, but many of you should realize how much information you give away to potential competitors that aren't playing on a level field.

[lawnboy11]

I agree with Nathan 100%. Too much info given away on this site, although I pesonally like it a lot, I don't want to teach any scrubs any tricks. Maybe someday there will be a site that requires proof of legitimacy first. I think teaching people to charge properly is great, but let them learn the rest from getting an education of some type.

[John DiMartino]

I wouldnt mind showing proof of insurance,and business registration to look here,I dont mind giving info at all,Im always willing to help a fellow LS memeber-but locally I have stopped giving younger guys my experience,and knowledge for free-they are always bugging me with questions-I stopped answering them,and told them-10 yrs from now-your lawns willl llook like mine too-you gotta live and learn.These same youn ones mow of literally 1/2 what the account is worth,have no insurance,no WC,and deal cash only-obviously.They would take my accounts in a minute-but they are to scared of me to do that-for now,and all my accounts are Commercial and require proof of insurance before the work can be started.

[skyphoto]

As far as the free info I dont think this makes a difference because you have had building contractor books forever and building forums on the net since the begining of the net and it has not caused a problem...and just like the mowing industry everyone and their dog is a construction worker when they lose their other job. I think alot of people just expect gravy on jobs and those are not every job you get....My grandparents along with their 3 children use to mow the city cemetery all summer just to pay for their summer vacation They all did this after work school etc and 1 day on the weekend...Now this was back in late 60's early 70's so they had no z turns and were happy to have the ability to take a family vacation. I think a few people have gotten a gravy job and just expect all to be this way...Now my grandfather is just amazed at all my equipment and thinks it is wonderful that I can support my family while doing something I like to do...He also said that 20 yrs ago mowing was almost always a second job for people and a lawncare company was nevr seen at least in his area that was the plains of Illinois. I just feel so lucky to be able to do the job I do and am more than happy to have the competition as they keep me in check and motivate me to work even harder...Scabs and lowballers will be here forever, I intend to be here too.

Sorry for the long post.
Peace!

[Nathan]

Hey Eric, If enough of us felt the same would there be a way to "qualify" true legitimate business owners?

[turfquip]

The answer I maintain is to make LS a members only site with a nominal quarterly payment. The buying power that a group of say 1000 qualified contractors would have in influencing industry vendors would make it a wise investment. If a thousand don't sign up at first...don't worry they will come. Kind of like what Nilsson is doing over at PriceBreak. I've been arguing it's time for more consolidation....less 'free' stuff. Free stuff is cheap and sometimes unreliable. There's nuggetts of wisdom here at LS which we have been blessed with but it's not <u>an entitlement</u> to future generations. Is it?

The more salient issue is why; what motivates us to freely give away our valuable and hard earned experience? Is there an emptiness, an unmet need somewhere within our psyches?

If this post is unsettling to some of you please forgive me but I can't figure why we can't/won't capitalize on our own good fortune?

Thankfully for most, this is not my decision to make and chances are probably 50/50 Chuck doesn't agree with my position.

[Eric ELM]

I guess anything is possible. What would you suggest the key thing for qualification would be? How would we check it?

[Evan528]

proof of insurance

somehow prove that you pay taxes

A list of questions relating to lawncare that a profesional should know..... ect... we could figure something out! I think Its a great idea!

[Chip]

I think it would be great if the commercial forum was just for commercial viewers only. Proof of insurance would be an easy way I think most insurance companies would send or fax a certificate to anyone you request to have it. I wouldn't be to crazy about my customers coming to this site and reading discussions on pricing or for that matter scrubs who don't operate legit.

[awm]

I pulled into a ladies yd yesterday as she had called me.
There are two lazers cutting and one guy trimming.
The lady said they just stopped and offered to mow her for 30 dollars.My guess would be 11/2 hrs wk for the three
men.I just shook my head an left.
Made me wonder if this is where the stolen mowers etc are
going.

[Davis TLC]

Our market seems to be getting heavy on the startup type cutters. We've had 2 plants to close up and leave here in the last 9 months. A lot of newbies out this spring without a clue, running around with anything from a Murray home owner mower to some fairly decent commercial wb's. The bad thing is are charging rock bottom prices that I won't even unload my equipment for. I haven't lost any customers to these guys yet, my customers know the quality of the work I do and they have told me they will be with me until I quit. Most have even asked if they need to be paying more for services this year, with the increase in gas prices forecast. Told them we would cross that bridge when it came time.

In the local paper, last week there were 15 ads for lawn care. Of the 15, 4 were guys who have been in business here for the last 4 to 10 years. I get all my business by word of mouth from customer referrals.

I can see at least 20 guys out mowing or going to a mowing job each day. From guys with nice trucks, trailers and commercial mowers to the ones pulling the homemade diaster trailer and the wore out Murray's, more of the later. Too bad these guys don't realize what they are doing to the market and to all of us in this business.

[thelawnguy]

turfquip,

How do you ensure that a forum isnt filled with 2000 paying scrubs and not one paying experienced contributor?

[awm]

change is constant ,it may not be fast but always changing.
The future belongs to the man who correctly antisapate the changes as they come and adjust
accordingly.
There will always be a market for top quality lawn care.
But my bet is that mow an go is what a lot of homeowners
are going to choose in the future.Sure could get boring though.mow load up unload mow and so on.WE LL SEE

[Roger]

In a recent thread regarding "recession" most posts expressed optimism, "...isn't going to hit us." The above posts sure present a different picture. How to reconcile the two positions?

Are most of those new folks with the beatup equipment out there because they want to be? Or, because they have to be out there?

[LJ lawn]

and here i thought it was just a problem in new jersey,shame to see the scab population explosion has expanded to other areas of the nation.just lost a good customer the other day to a scab, got under-bid by 5 bucks.but yet the guy tells me he loved my work-go figure.

[OBRYANMAINT]

in agreement, i counted 41 ads forlawn care in small local paper today, i bet it could be worse....not terribly worried although i lost only one customer to a lower price this year

i would support a fee based lawnsite

[eggy]

I think maybe I should head back to work "for the man" and hire one of these guys to cut my yard...hmmmm

[KirbysLawn]

Charles, same here!! I was sitting in class Saturday, I bet one lawn service drove by every 5 minutes and I was in class for 5 hours!! My neighbor just bought a Weed Eater http://unionturf.com/SHOCKED.gif rider and is now mowing and another friend at the fire department is buying equipement getting ready also.

[Edited by KirbysLawn on 03-25-2001 at 11:46 PM]

[hortusa]

I think all you guys are crazy. I have been doing landscaping for about 8 years on my own and worked for companies for 6 years before that. If all you look back you were all scrubs at one point or the other.But now for the people that have been in the buis where have you taken your company? When I first found this web site I thought it was great. I have been on for 6 to 8 months and hardly reply for the simple fact is I worked hard for my information, went to school for horticulture, read books every night about landscaping and deal every day looking at past employees starting their own and coming to me for information about pre-emergent I laugh and say I have suffered now its your turn. No one helped me but me.And I read that you guys want to start a premeum for this website? you don't think that JOE scrub wouldn't pay for all this great information,Or just buy showing proof of insurance which is not costly at all? All you want to start something why don't you make this a real Association that we can go to local officials (state local or fed) and ask them to require harder laws for landscapers to get their licences. Make us take tests to become landscapers, Have specific codes about landscapers anything. If you require knowlege to become a lanscaper you will see 85% of scrubs gone and probably 20% of the bigger companies gone to. What do you guys think about that?

[awm]

Agree with some of your points.But still got to believe
that sharing knowledge is a good thing.I just believe we
all better have a plan B cause a general chg is coming.
ONE END RESULT COULD BE A GLUT OF COMMERCIAL EQUIP.
AFTER SOME OF THESE FELLAS PUT A SUMMER IN.
96 degrees aint fitting into some of their plans.

[sgreanbean]

it seems that there is alot of info on the subject of limited access to the forum, i agree that there should be.
it would be simple to do. when someone finds the forum and wants to enter the have to register with there properly liscensed info, give them a little taste as a "free member" for a week then they have to start paying. have them send in a copy of there liscense and insurance. then you know that they are atleast making the effort.but remember...
a liscense and insureance cost me about $600 a year, thats
not alot of money, i know some of the LCOs in my area are
coverde at that end. they still make the green indust look bad and they will still stab you in the back as fast as they can, but paying to be in this forum, i doubt they would do, just some thoughts

[Roger]

hortusa, You want more government regulations and agencies sticking their nose into business? More of our tax dollars to run a bureaucracy? Soon, more EPA controls will state when machines can/cannot be operated, or machine designs. That is a different, but related matter. I don't think more regulations and laws will address the issue at hand. Sure, more startups make competition tough, but having a strong-arm government in control on who can operate is less desirable.

[Pentonenterprises]

Yes, Lawn Services have multiplied over the past 10 years but so has the need for Lawn Services. This is a common theme everywhere you go; "they are low-balling me, too many new guys etc....." Rather than focusing on what everyone else is doing out there, why not focus upon yourself and your business. We choose to put our time and energy to out-market, out-sell, and out-perform all of them; the big and the small new guy. Call some of those ads that you see in the classifieds and you will find out how legitimate they really are from the get go by the way that they answer the phone. The majority just answer the phone with "hello" or "yeah". Every spring there are a ton of new guys running around, yet if you watch very few of them will survive in the long run if they are pricing their services where they can not make a profit. If you have a marketing plan that considers this type of knowledge (the natural attrition of the "new guy", which of course can create a potential new customer for your own business) you can go a long way. If you just shoot from the hip and hope people will call off your yellow pages ad you will never go forward.
A complete marketing plan must encompass everything from your attitude when you wake up in the morning, the image you present through the day, and the service and follow up that you provide your customers. Whining about the "new guy" is never going to provide any growth to your business. Keep in mind also that there is more need for lawn services than there are services that are able to meet that need.

[John from OH]

I've been lurking on Lawnsite for about 1 year and have been in the green industry for over 20. I'd like to share some insites I've gained thru my experiences.
Most of the scabs that you are worried about will be THEIR own worst enemy. I doubt that most scabs would ever take the initiative to read lawnsite and work to improve themselves. For over 20 years I've seen new companies come and go like dandelions in spring. Most never make it past 2 years. True professional service coupled with good business practices will allow you to survive, and even thrive in this business. Contrary to popular belief, most of our clients DON'T buy strictly on low price. If they did, every single customer would be driving a 10 year old Yugo. That said, presenting a price, without justifying the added value, isn't selling the customer on your great company. They are forced to strictly compare prices with the assumption that all services will be equal. Most professional lawn care companies find it easier to GROW during an economic downturn by providing superior service and knowledge combined with a fair price. During tight economic times, customers will still spend money on things that they feel are of high value. They will typically keep the car an extra year, or postpone the vacation, thus spending more time around the humble abode. The money saved is typically spent on maintaining and improving their home. I've been thru several recessions and have always done quite well. If you are loosing customers, take a hard look at your business, cut expenses(truly figure out what your costs are, they may be less than you think), improve service, use your professional knowledge to suggest ways of improving their property. Don't just sit back and watch your market fade away.

[Twotoros]

THE CALL

"Yo"
"Hello- is this Jose Bloe's Lawn Care?"
"Yep"
"Is this Jose?"
"Ya what you want?"
"I need my grass cut.How much do you guys charge?"
"How big is it?"
" I'm not sure. It used to take me an hour to cut it with my
riding lawn mower."
" I could do it for 22$. Do you want it trimmed too?"
" Ya that would be good I suppose I have never done that.Does that cost extra?"
"Ya."
"How much?"
" A couple bucks - I'll do it once a month or so."
" When can you mow it? It is pretty long"
" I can do it next week when I get the parts I ordered for my mower. I'll call you when I get it fixed."
" What day of the week will you do it?"
" Tuesdays or maybe wednesdays."
" It sure would be nice to have it on friday."
" I try not to work friday my, wife likes me at home for the weekend. I'll do it on wed. or thursday if I can."
" Do you guys trim any shrubs or fertilize?"
"Nope- too much hassle."
" Will you send a bill?"
"No you can pay when I finish."
" What will it come to with the tax. I'll make a check out for you ahead of time."
" No tax but I really need you to pay in cash if you could. It is too much trouble to go to the bank all the time."
" OK I can do that. It is worth it to me all the other bids I got were double yours."
" Ya I know those guys are robbers . If you have any friends
who need me I'll beat anybodys price."
" Sure I'll let you know. See you soon."
"Yep."
************************************************************

[dan deutekom]

Hey twotoro,s

If that is the kind of customer a lawn company wants then they are scrubs. They arn,t the kind i want. I want the ones like Mcdonalds have. They pay a fair price for a quality, fair product. Not neccessarily the most expensive but fair and profitable. Cheap and inexpensive are two different things

[RYAN]

Twotoro's you hit the nail on the head. There are tons of operations out there that are just like that. He will probably show up a week late with his moms crapsman hanging out of his camaro and an electric weed wacker with an extension cord. Since the grass has grown another week it is way too long to bag or mulch so he does a half a$$ job and after 2 hours of cutting it is a clumpy uneven mess. The homeowner then gives him his 22 bucks and tells him never to return. People like this will never make it and I don't even consider them competition. They come and go every year and the good customers either know better or will learn the hard way. I still feel there is plenty of work for everyone. If you provide good service and do good work you should not have much trouble.


Hey Dan since when was McDonalds a Quality product? That stuff is so nasty it would make a billy goat puke. Other than that you are right there are some scab customers out there just looking for the bottom dollar.

[Edited by RYAN on 03-26-2001 at 02:22 PM]

[Charles]

I dont see where the idea of competition is a good thing for us contractors. I dont need anyone to keep me honest and fair since i am always that way. Competition is good for the consumer though. I cant even go up on price to keep up with inflation this year. What I am seeing is that there are 2 to three lawncare companies living in almost every neighborhood. There are 3 in my neighborhood besides me. i think I have the most lawns close by than the rest. But I was the first to start my company. Good to see that none of are alone in the saturation game. This is exactly what has happen to the trucking industry and has made them run illegal just to make a profit. i believe i will pick up a few yard during the summer when some drop out or get fired. But by then part of the season will be lost. Luckily diversification will make up the slack. But one day lawn care by it self wont pay the bills for the majority of us.

[skyphoto]

I agree with everything you said John from OH!

Peace!

[bobbygedd]

MARK TODAY ON YOUR CALENDER, someone actually loved the work of L.J.

[lee b]

I'm tired of all the whining and complaining. If you are losing custoners to low-ballers, I would bet that the price isn't the only reason. Sure theres a few clients looking for the cheapest price, but most will stay with those LCO's who provide prompt, QUALITY service at a REASONABLE PRICE. Just because you have insurance and a business license, which anybody else can get cheaply, does not guarantee success. I've seen what ya'll call "scrubs", with a wore-out push-mower, do a much neater, much cheaper job than some of the fanciest LCO's in my area. Why? I think it's because they took more pride in their work and were not as pushed to get to the next job. Which one do you think the homeowner wanted to mow his grass? My point is look at yourself - first, before you go to laying blame. The competition in this line of work is definitely getting stronger, learn to compete or find something else to do. Government regulation, paying to get on LAWN-SITE, or turning the I.R.S. on 'em {hey Charles} ain't gonna stop 'em. I know I've got alot of you fuming so feel free to lash-out, you mal-contents.

[dan deutekom]

Ryan

OK maybe Mcdonalds is a bad example but at least you know that every mcdonalds in North America serves the exact same thing, its clean, good service, and you know what to expect. Not saying it is my place of choice for all my meals but when I am trying to get a quick bite in a strange place when I am in a hurry I know what I am going to get. There is a reason there are so many of them. You may not like them but they are quality

[Davis TLC]

I haven't lost any customers to lowballers or scrubs. Last summer when I had to go out of town for a few days, a neighbor kid of one of my customers mowed her lawn. I had offered to come mow it before I left but she had company and didn't want to get it done then. Well when I got back and I mowed hers again, she told me about the kid down the street mowing it. She said I did a much better job than anybody had ever done on her lawn. I had already identified problems in her lawn and had start programs to correct them. She is back with me this year as are all my previous customers. They all know the quality of my work and are willing to pay extra for a job well done.

My only gripe is with the new guys who get into this business thinking that they are going to make a ton of money mowing grass. They see the established companies driving new trucks and trailers, and riding new mowers with a big crew of workers. And they think I've got to get me some of those, mowers or trucks. Never realizing what they are getting into until July and August hit and temps 100 degrees, then they decide that this isn't for them and someone can pick up some equipment for next to nothing.

Then there's the guy running the old beater car/truck with the old beater lawn mower, with the warped deck that scalps on one side and doesn't even cut the tips of the other side. I watched one mow a lawn across the street from my house one day. The lawn looked better before he started.

Just my .04 worth.

[Nathan]

Eric, I would have to agree with both chip and turfquip. The insurance fax thing probably would work but it is a lot of work for you guys. A membership fee is not out of my mind, and to be honest I don't think many scrubs would be willing to join an association such as this if they had to pay. It may allow this forum to remain as a truly informative association of knowledgable professionals, instead of a bunch of hacks looking for free info into what they see as easy money. Maybe post an all forum questionaire as to how many people would be willing to be paying members. Maybe we will be surprised.

[Charles]

When i started this thread it wasnt about scrubs verses legit lawn care people. It wasnt about who is doing a better job or about lawnsite infuencing it one way or another. It was about the flood of lawncare companies new and old running each other out of business. I mean how many times can you divide a pie before you do not have enough to fill you up? Now its getting so everyone in our town knows someone who cuts grass and is most likely to do business with that person. Volume grass cutters will be most effected the worst with trying to replace customers they lost to natural attrition( people dieing, relocating) Even new people these days can do a great job with the quality of equipment on the market. I looked in the paper and there are around 20 ads. Many of the advertising "check my prices"
"lowest prices in town","seniors discount","price breakers"
"beat any price" etc. Its not the point of losing business to scrubs it replacing business when you are like a needle in a haystack of lawncare companies. I have an established business and will do okay this year. But the years of growing and doing great in this town maybe long gone. This post was related to volume grass cutters really. There are many companies out the who do this parttime after there normal jobs. They have grown in numbers greatly in the past few years. They are just out to make a few extra bucks and not depended on it for a living like most of us are.

[turfquip]

I have to agree with a point made earlier by Charles and that is quite simply...

How can any of us actually come on here and say that competition is GOOD for us? Never mind the hacks because there will always be an endless supply of them. Sure, they will burn themselves out with in a year or two, but they will be replaced by others so my point is (as it pertains to hacks) is that they are a constant. If anyone thinks things will be better in two years somehow because the hacks will be burned out better do a reality check.

But the notion of improving the industry by legitimizing contractors through free flow of information is a fallacy. Some things should be kept 'close to the breast' so to speak. The number of jobs out there are <u>finite</u>. When there are more well equipped operators out there to fill the need well, people that means something has to give somewhere.

Now I know we all have fun here and enjoy seeing our names and words on the screen but I would implore you to consider the newness of this medium and the effect it <u>may have</u> on your industry.

Here is a wise saying: "Just because something <i>can</i> be done, doesn't mean it <i>should</i> be done"

He who has ears, let him hear!

[mowin'man]

A short story.

A local buisness started 10 years ago, did the little extras(edging,trimming), was very professional, generaly raised the bar in this area and is going as strong as ever.
They have even received accounts from others who didn't
do a professional job.
In short they now set the standard for lawncare in this area.

[Scraper]

I can't believe it, but I agree with Ed (Turfquip)! ;)

Thus why what I'm sharing has decreased until I figure out what is best for me. Don't get me wrong. I am not here for taking only, but with nearly 20 years in the business, some things I worked hard to learn and I don't want to just give them away. You think IBM showed Dell how to make a computer? Not! Dell had to figure it out themselves or pay someone to emigrate from IBM to show them.

[LJ lawn]

yes MR. bobbyged,some of my customers do love my work, umm... maybe it's because i use professional turf equipment, actually show up when i say i will and don't look like a sandford and son operation. you know... professional like.

[Pentonenterprises]

The backbone of our Country is the fact that we have a free market economy. One with limited (and hopefully even fewer) regulations whereby the entrepreneurial spirit can thrive. There are many industries that have just as many and more competitors amoungst them (i.e. construction, printers, Doctors, Lawyers, Restaurants....). Yet in every town there are companies that continue to succeed, and new ones that come along and have even greater success than those before them.
Would you rather the Government give each contractor a certain area to work in and limit the number of accounts that they can have so that everyone will have a "fair" chance?

Frankly, I like to hear all angst that many of you are experiencing because that's why we are able to get so many new accounts each year. Does that dust taste good?

[ron]

Hey Dude
Be patient you will get some great clients,just takes a little time heck just get out there and throw your name around.Good luck

[osc]

You can take a couple of 7 thousand dollar lawn mowers and make more money per hour than a guy who buys an 80 thousand dollar bull dozer, if you know what you are doing. And you can get more work, money is litterally growing on the ground.
Before this thing is over, everyone in America will have a lawn business on the side. It's just too attractive and the success rate is too high for potential newbies to walk the other way.

[lawrence stone]

Originally posted by Charles
I dont see where the idea of competition is a good thing for us contractors.


Us contractors? Don't you actually have to use contracts
to be considered a contractor?

In some past messages (before you stopped contributing because you did not want to reveal any of your grasskutter
secrets) you stated that you did not use contracts.

Maybe if YOU started to do business like a real business one day you might emerge from the primeval soup of scrubdom
and realize you have nothing to fear but fear itself.

[PetalsandPines]

I don't agree with the notion of saturation. Here in the northeast, many newbies are shaken out when they have to weather an extended 5-6 month winter. there's another topic... What do you guys do in the winter? (besides plowing(duh))

[lawrence stone]

Originally posted by PetalsandPines
I don't agree with the notion of saturation. Here in the northeast, many newbies are shaken out when they have to weather an extended 5-6 month winter. there's another topic... What do you guys do in the winter? (besides plowing(duh))

Actually I provide grounds maintenance service for almost 8
months a year. If I wanted to work 50 weeks a year I would go out and get a "real" job.

During the past four years I have taken my off season time
to use as personal enrichment. During this time I develop
my computer skills to use as a safety net in the future if and when my physical abilities are diminished.

I consider myself an internet bird dog. If ones needs information quick I can find the info. With these skills I will be able to command a high dollar paycheck as an executive administrative assistant.

Next winter due to the recent acquisition of a lovely old class B motorcoach I plan on offering a mobile lawn care and
personal computer consulting service for all the Florida contractors who would like (and can afford) an edge on your
competition starting January 2002.

[AltaLawnCare]

It's funny how when the economy slows down and businesses suffer, everyone spends valuable time trying to point the finger to who or whats causing it, instead of concentrating on their own operation and how to survive. When business is booming and everyone is picking up new work, wonder if anyone looks around for someone to thank??

[Pentonenterprises]

Originally posted by PetalsandPines
I don't agree with the notion of saturation. Here in the northeast, many newbies are shaken out when they have to weather an extended 5-6 month winter. there's another topic... What do you guys do in the winter? (besides plowing(duh))

We run a snow plowing operation combined with Chimney Sweeping Services....Yes, Chimney Sweeping Services.

[Eng Mwr Guy]

Very interesting topic.

Every industry goes through saturation periods. The easier the price of entry the more often it gets saturated.

The complaining about low ballers in lawncare is the same complaint in any industry.....take commercial turf equipment for instance. If there wasn't a large number of companies vying for your dollar your needs may not be served in the end.

Free market is painful but infinitely fair. Provide a service better in some unique way and you get paid better than average prices.

Speaking selfishly, please allow people like myself to view/post here. I am trying to provide a top-notch WB mower and am including a lot of advice given here.

Business is brutal....and rewarding if you find ways to serve your customer better and better.

Barry

[Charles]

Good memory Lawrence LOL. Not many people use contracts around here because of the droughts(residential that is). Thats what i mostly do. I think i do better without contracts because alot of people call me to come early when the stuff starts growing faster. I like you also like having a couple of months off. After jan 15th i take off until march 1st.
Back from 1991 to 1996 i was covered up with business. I would get 10 calls a day off one newspaper ad. Each year after that the calls began to decline. I guess that coincides with the increase in lawncare companies each year. One guy(while drawing disability at the same time) started his business around 1996. He hired someone full time to ride around handing out flyers and cards. Offering his services starting out at 20$ and up(we have most yard over 25000 sq feet) He offers seeding, fertilizing, lime ,areating for an average price of 375$ per half acre yard.
Hes just one of the competitors. Customers are lucky if they get what they pay for. But what the hell its cheap!
I listed some of the ads above with the newbies offering discount prices. I cant see myself going back 10 years in pricing. I guess they are doing what they have to do to get their business started. Natural attrition is where I lost some business but its hard to build it back up when you have people GIVING their services away. And year after year more and more startup and this other guy practicely turning back the clock on pricing.
I still have an established biz and in no way will be poor. But I had goals to grow and have decided to ad services and stop focusing on lawncare so much.
Lawrence i am surpised that you are not in computer repair and consulting right now. Not as much work and more profitable

[Edited by Charles on 03-28-2001 at 03:37 PM]

[lawrence stone]

Charles I have a 30-day ad (call a expert section)in the local daily paper (60k circulation) and as of today there are only five other listings. I have had only 3 calls for estimates since Sunday
but it was only 15 degrees here yesterday morning.

In my area good let alone any LCO's are hard to find.
My local economy is better than ever and there are jobs for everyone who wants one. And I live in one of the most depressed areas in the Northeast.

As for computer consulting I could not even legally advertise my field of expertise.

[thelawnguy]

"Originally posted by PetalsandPines
I don't agree with the notion of saturation. Here in the northeast, many newbies are shaken out when they have to weather an extended 5-6 month winter. there's another topic... What do you guys do in the winter? (besides plowing(duh))"

This winter I hooked up with a home improvement contractor. So besides plowing I learned a lucrative trade and made decent scratch to boot. As an added bonus I will have work to do on rainy days with this contractor, and also will no longer need to worry about summer droughts.

No longer will my proverbial eggs reside in the same basket.

As for competition it has been, and will always be here, be it for lawn customers, potential mates, the last bag of Fritos at the local wawa, etc. Deal with it. I suspect those who are afraid the most are those who are the least secure to begin with.