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View Full Version : let's conduct a test


bobbygedd
11-09-2005, 07:28 AM
ok, all the pros say dormant seeding is a good idea. ok, fine. i'll get the topsoil, and seed. i'll take pics of before the site was prepped, and after. i'll post them all, and monitor thier progress by posting new pics as we go. what do the pro's suggest i do to prep the seed bed for this dormant seeding experiment? i also have available, for the test, either mushroom soil, or a good screened topsoil. which do you prefer? i also have on hand- a 3 way rye grass mix. i have a 70% tall fescue/30% rg mix. and i have a fescue/kbg/rye mix. which do you prefer? i have starter fert too. instruct me

stumper1620
11-09-2005, 07:32 AM
ok, all the pros say dormant seeding is a good idea. ok, fine. i'll get the topsoil, and seed. i'll take pics of before the site was prepped, and after. i'll post them all, and monitor thier progress by posting new pics as we go. what do the pro's suggest i do to prep the seed bed for this dormant seeding experiment? i also have available, for the test, either mushroom soil, or a good screened topsoil. which do you prefer? i also have on hand- a 3 way rye grass mix. i have a 70% tall fescue/30% rg mix. and i have a fescue/kbg/rye mix. which do you prefer? i have starter fert too. instruct me
I like this idea Bob,
I sure don't claim to be a pro though.
I vote sceened top soil, fescue/kbg/rye, how about 2 test plots 1 with the fert and 1 without.
oh ya, is this test out in the elements all winter?

jd boy
11-09-2005, 07:43 AM
i don't know who says winter seeding is a good idea. the seed generally rots before it germinates. it needs an ambiant ground temp of around 55-60 degrees to germinate. that won't happen in nw ohio for about 5 months.
that said, i am always game for alittle research

stumper1620
11-09-2005, 07:45 AM
i don't know who says winter seeding is a good idea. the seed generally rots before it germinates. it needs an ambiant ground temp of around 55-60 degrees to germinate. that won't happen in nw ohio for about 5 months.
that said, i am always game for alittle research
My opinion also, I think come spring it will be and will remain a big spot of top soil with very little if any germination.

bobbygedd
11-09-2005, 08:57 AM
stumper, of corse it's outside. where else would one do DORMANT SEEDING? in the clients living room?

BSDeality
11-09-2005, 10:23 AM
dormant seeding is not intended to be used to bring in a lawn from scratch as you are proposing. It is also not the correct time to be putting seed down. you are also in a marginal area for dormant seeding, Ideally you need a constant snowcover for the length of the winter. Soil temperatures must also be well below 50* to start.

If you plant to early they will start to germinate, at which point they will be pushed out of the ground by the freeze/thaw and the roots will be exposed killing off the new growth.

bobbygedd
11-09-2005, 10:35 AM
dormant seeding is not intended to be used to bring in a lawn from scratch as you are proposing. It is also not the correct time to be putting seed down. you are also in a marginal area for dormant seeding, Ideally you need a constant snowcover for the length of the winter. Soil temperatures must also be well below 50* to start.

If you plant to early they will start to germinate, at which point they will be pushed out of the ground by the freeze/thaw and the roots will be exposed killing off the new growth.
so then, dormant seeding WILL ONLY WORK on an established lawn?

BSDeality
11-09-2005, 10:57 AM
you could use it to bring in a lawn if you so desired.
I only sell it as another form of overseeding/slitseeding/reseeding/

bobbygedd
11-09-2005, 11:03 AM
you could use it to bring in a lawn if you so desired.
I only sell it as another form of overseeding/slitseeding/reseeding/
ok then, back to my original question, let's conduct a test....instruct me

BSDeality
11-09-2005, 11:21 AM
oooooh, the honor! instructing the great BG...

wait until december. its too warm now.

bobbygedd
11-09-2005, 11:46 AM
ok, fine. but i'd like to point out........you basically stated above, that you only offer dormant seeding, as an "overseeding" on established lawns. is the reason for this, because the fact remains, that less than half of your seed will germinate in the dormant seeding process, and on an established lawn....it won't matter? please give me my instructions, i'd like to prep the area, before the ground /and new topsoil is frozen solid. thank you

stumper1620
11-09-2005, 12:05 PM
stumper, of corse it's outside. where else would one do DORMANT SEEDING? in the clients living room?
Sorry BG,
I didn't have enough coffee in me yet when I typed that.
I mean is it going to be in a wide open area or will it be semi protected by a fence or anything that would prevent the wind driven rain and snow and then a day of hot sun to have its full effects. I have areas in my yard that the wind and rain woudn't pound it nearly as bad as other areas, not that it matters because I don't believe you will see a 20% germmination anyway. even if it was semi protected.

BSDeality
11-09-2005, 05:49 PM
just rake it out level, like you would a normal lawn install.

Turfdude
11-09-2005, 06:59 PM
Hey BG,

I too say at this point, wait until you know snow is coming. THe snow will help keep the seed insulated. I have one small install this Friday or Monday. The client doen't want their front lawn sodded. They had a large tree removed from the middle & we have to remove the grindings, fill w/ soil, grade, etc. We are also aerating & overseeding remaining turf. THe leaves are falling heavy as well as temps. Its not the right thing to do, but they wanted to save $1100. They will probably be calling me in the spring for sod. Mo money.

muddstopper
11-09-2005, 07:52 PM
Dormant seeding will bring in a new lawn. Prep your soil as you normally would. Wait until you are reasonably sure that its to cold to germinate the seed, other wise you are not dormant seeding, and then broadcast your seed and cover with a good layer of mulch. Donot try to encourage germination by artificial means. You will see spot germination during stretches of warm weather but the majority of the seed should germinate starting as soon as the temperatures warmup and stay above 50 degrees at nite.

Post a copy of your soil test results as well as the fertilizers and other admendments, including the amounts, you will be using.

turfsurfer
11-09-2005, 07:57 PM
Well Bobby, you could go ahead and conduct your own research (which leads me to believe you've never tried dormant seeding, therefore, talking out your @$$) or maybe you'd be willing to at least read some info from a Big 10 university and consider that under the right circumstances and conditions (a pre-requisite for MOST things), it is a viable option. click on http://bygl.osu.edu/ and read the Oct 20, 2005 Turf Tips including clicking on the "more info" link.
To answer your other questions, wait till about January. You don't have to get any fancy soil, just pick a place that is thin in yours or a customers lawn and broadcast an ample amount of seed out. No soil prep needed, the freeze thaw cycle of late winter/early Spring will get the seed worked into the ground for you. Just add starter fert as your first application next spring.
Or, if you really want to do a test, pick two 10x10 foot areas side by side. dormant seed one side and spring seed the other. Don't cheat, remember dormant seeding DOES require a bit more seed due to lower germination rate but more than makes up for it in reduced labor. Also a KBG blend will work better than a Ryegrass since it takes longer to germinate and lessens the chance of getting caught by a late spring frost or freeze.

bobbygedd
11-09-2005, 11:06 PM
i've done dormant seedingt= a waste of time. your test results, mean nothing to me. these tests were conducted in a controlled environment. a true test, is one that simulates a real life account at a clients home. i will do the next best thing, i'll do it in my own yard.

Planet Landscaping
11-09-2005, 11:46 PM
Soil temp must remain below 58. A mix of your compost and screened topsoil with a B/F/PR mix(For a new lawn). Save the stater for spring.Add lime now to get ph in check.Wait till 12/1 to be safe. Cover with a high quality mulch.(I use hydroseeding) take pics to end any debate. REMEMBER this, U R at Mother Natures mercy. She can screw thing up as u Know.

bobbygedd
11-10-2005, 07:59 AM
is penn mulch ok? i got a bag on me. ok then, in 3 weeks i'll take a pic of the 5x10 area we will use for the test. i'll buy 1/2 yd (1/2 ton) of screened topsoil. i'll spread topsoil, test ph. adjust accordingly (6.8 ok with you ladies?) . i'll seed with approx 5 lbs of fescue/kbg/rye mix. roll, and cover with that crappy blue penn mulch. ok so far?

DUSTYCEDAR
11-10-2005, 08:23 AM
bobby get a bunch of homeless to sleep on the seeded areas and it will be up in no time

scaglawnsnj
11-10-2005, 09:53 AM
ok, fine. but i'd like to point out........you basically stated above, that you only offer dormant seeding, as an "overseeding" on established lawns. is the reason for this, because the fact remains, that less than half of your seed will germinate in the dormant seeding process, and on an established lawn....it won't matter? please give me my instructions, i'd like to prep the area, before the ground /and new topsoil is frozen solid. thank you


OK dormant seeding by gmj...(1) no mulch on soil, burns out the root. It also takes too long to compost. (2) start by either aerating, de-thatching soil. (3) spread black gold organic humas compost. spread gypsum fert, 40lbs per 1000sqr. ft. rke the compost level. Most important use warm season grass mix. cool season grass will germinate, thats what you don't want. spread double the seed as usual. about two bags. (4) sign the customer up for starter fert mixed with seed in april 01 06. that is the run down of it.

bobbygedd
11-10-2005, 10:04 AM
OK dormant seeding by gmj...(1) no mulch on soil, burns out the root. It also takes too long to compost. (2) start by either aerating, de-thatching soil. (3) spread black gold organic humas compost. spread gypsum fert, 40lbs per 1000sqr. ft. rke the compost level. Most important use warm season grass mix. cool season grass will germinate, thats what you don't want. spread double the seed as usual. about two bags. (4) sign the customer up for starter fert mixed with seed in april 01 06. that is the run down of it.
oh, so now i need a grass type that is non typical?:rolleyes:

Runner
11-11-2005, 11:09 PM
Bobby,
This will be cool! Let's do this. I have a yard that has been anhialated by grubs. I am going to seed this soon. Right now, we have temps from the 50's,60's - down to the high 30's low 40's at night. In a week or two, we may have some colder temps. I just want to make sure my soil temps get below the 55 degree mark and are pretty certain to stay there consistently. I will be working these areas up with nothing but a JRCO rake, and possibly a power-rake for some of the smaller patches. Also at this time, I will be applying Dylox. I'll take pics - because we'll see ALOT of land shrimp at the surface (they don't like getting kicked in the rear with a power-rake or slit seeder). Anyway, NO starter fert. will go down on this until the early spring when temps get into the adequate range. I will be planting Teammates mix which is a TTTF, and I will be planting it at 8# per M. Now, since I have such a vast area to do, I will leave part of the area alone, and go back in - in the spring and plant then. This will be at the same time that I put starter fert. on both areas. This is about a 5000 sq. ft. area in the back yard (which faces west). I will also be doing an area in the front, but I will be seeding that this year. I'll take pics and will post them. This will be a good project. We'll see how it goes. I have ALWAYS had great success in dormant seeding in the past. As long as we have the favorable conditions in the spring (for both the dormant seeded and spring seeded), we'll be ok. I hope I live through this winter to follow through with this! :)

muddstopper
11-12-2005, 09:35 PM
is penn mulch ok? i got a bag on me. ok then, in 3 weeks i'll take a pic of the 5x10 area we will use for the test. i'll buy 1/2 yd (1/2 ton) of screened topsoil. i'll spread topsoil, test ph. adjust accordingly (6.8 ok with you ladies?) . i'll seed with approx 5 lbs of fescue/kbg/rye mix. roll, and cover with that crappy blue penn mulch. ok so far?


You plan on putting 5 lbs of seed on 50sqft?? With this much seed you will probably have seed rot. Try fixing two test plotts and just use 1/2 lb of seed on the second one.

Runner
11-12-2005, 10:38 PM
Incidentally, I won't be adding any topsoil. I will be planting in the existing soil (which is sandy).

impactlandscaping
11-14-2005, 10:24 PM
As soon as I can get my card reader to work, I will post a few pics of a dormant hydroseeded lawn from January, and how it came in early in the spring. I would say there was 80% or more of thick coverage in mid-April, and it filled in pretty nicely by the end of May/early June. The main reason for that lawn was to stabilize the soil from building a new house late in 2004. They knew they might have less than ideal results, and were willing to have a respray in the spring, and declined to have some overseeding, and let it fill in by itself. We are getting ready to dormant seed 2 acres the first week of December for a homebuilder. I'll be sure to get pics..lol.

stumper1620
04-05-2006, 04:24 PM
Ok guys,
Just thought I would wake this thread up. Anybody got any updates on how these test sites are doing?

chriscraft
04-05-2006, 08:24 PM
Id be nervous in NJ we got 2 inches snow this morning and i seeded last week lol. Seed can get wet freezes thaw freeze thaw and rot so i would be hesitant

impactlandscaping
04-06-2006, 03:55 PM
When I get time later, I'll throw a couple of pics up from some of our dormant seeding.

topsites
04-07-2006, 12:06 AM
ok, fine. but i'd like to point out........you basically stated above, that you only offer dormant seeding, as an "overseeding" on established lawns. is the reason for this, because the fact remains, that less than half of your seed will germinate in the dormant seeding process, and on an established lawn....it won't matter? please give me my instructions, i'd like to prep the area, before the ground /and new topsoil is frozen solid. thank you

LOL if I spread 50 pounds of seed and 300 trillion little seeds come out (well I don't know how many but it's more than a few million, even if only 10 million survive that should be enough for 1/2 acre.

For this to work (I do it all the time), my formula includes a TON of seed.