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View Full Version : I normallly don't start a thread on pricing, but would like a little help this time.


walker-talker
11-09-2005, 09:58 AM
This was my first landscape job that I did on my own since I have been in business and would like a little price check. I will try and be as specific as I can. No extra items were needed. I used my truck, trailer, shovels and a wheel-barrel for this small project. Let me know what some of you might have charged and then I will tell you what I charged.


It was two small beds consisting of 25 ft of edging, 200 sq ft of weed barrier, 2 tons of rock. 2 trees and about 25-30 plants. It took myself and another guy 7 hours to complete from start to finish (not including time to pick up stuff and planning).

Materials cost $900
Helper cost $80
Designer cost $100

So, let's call it $1100 in actual cost. You could probably add another 2 hours of my time. I met with the client twice and spent time picking up the material.

I just would like to know if I am in the ballpark here.
Thanks a bunch!!!
Matt

o-so-n-so
11-09-2005, 08:21 PM
With that information (many varibles) I would be a 35 hunerd. (based on material and man hours)

rscritch
11-09-2005, 09:43 PM
yea you have lots of vars. brick, flagstone, plastic edging, size of plants, do you offer a warentee? i would have been in the 2800-3600 range

Green-Pro
11-09-2005, 10:55 PM
I'd be in at about $4136 before tax.

dvmcmrhp52
11-09-2005, 11:36 PM
I'd be in at about $4136 before tax.



$1100 for materials and
$3000 for less than a days work for 2 guys?
A measley $214/man Hr.

And every body wonders why the lawn and landscape business is looked down upon.
And then every body blames the scrubs for their lack of work.

Hint: it ain't the scrubs ruining it.

kris
11-10-2005, 06:22 AM
not really enough information ... if the 2 trees were caliper size we would get 1k for that alone.
Look at his time Dave.... 2 guys including general conditions can't do that in 3.5 hrs.

Green-Pro
11-10-2005, 07:52 AM
$1100 for materials and
$3000 for less than a days work for 2 guys?
A measley $214/man Hr.

And every body wonders why the lawn and landscape business is looked down upon.
And then every body blames the scrubs for their lack of work.

Hint: it ain't the scrubs ruining it.

Was I to low Wink wink nudge nudge

polecat63
11-10-2005, 08:53 AM
Given the limited info........I would have charged around $2,800 for that, as described, not knowing conditions, etc...etc... I'd then have a happy customer that didn't get gouged, I'd have gotten a little exercise, and I would have paid my mortgage and truck payments for the month with enough left over for a really nice night out with the misses. If you guys can get a couple hundred per man hour, then more power to ya. Around here that kind of money better come with a few, ahem, special favors.

If, as Kris said, those tress were caliper size, that's a different story. Especially if you offer a warranty. Gotta cover yo' azzz, if you know what I mean.

kris
11-10-2005, 10:20 AM
Ok lets get some more facts... the beds ,were they already there? What kind of cleanup? What type of edging? What kind of rock mulch? What size were the trees? What size were the plants?

walker-talker
11-10-2005, 12:49 PM
Ok...here are some more fact and I will tell ya what I charged.

Plants, 7 were 5 gal., 11 were 3 gal., and 10 were 1 gal.
Trees, both were balled and burlaped. Not sure the size but one weighed prob. 150 pounds and another 250-300. I moved them with a refridg. dolly...lol
do dirt work involved and was able to dump extra dirt in an empty lot across the street. One bed required the 25ft of edging and the other was already enclosed. Here is a picture.

You can see where the lawn meets the bed of weeds, this is the area that required edging and equaled about 1 ton of medium sized egg rock.

walker-talker
11-10-2005, 12:50 PM
Here is the other side of the porch, it required most the plants and 1 ton of rock.

walker-talker
11-10-2005, 12:56 PM
not really enough information ... if the 2 trees were caliper size we would get 1k for that alone.
Look at his time Dave.... 2 guys including general conditions can't do that in 3.5 hrs.
The trees were a 7' vanderwolf pine ($182) and the other was a 9' clump amur maple ($127). When I posted, I forgot to subtract an hour for lunch, so I guess it took two of us 6 hours, but I think I could have done it by myself (other than just moving the trees from trailer to hole) in 10 hours.

dvmcmrhp52
11-10-2005, 05:28 PM
not really enough information ... if the 2 trees were caliper size we would get 1k for that alone.
Look at his time Dave.... 2 guys including general conditions can't do that in 3.5 hrs.



14 man hours Kris, not 7.
It took both of them 7 hours to complete.
His material costs were given.
Hence the comment concerning $214/man hour.

Green-Pro
11-10-2005, 05:54 PM
very few jobs I charge by the actual hour, I have a good idea of what it takes to do not all but some installs, this experience I've gained this season does come in handy when bidding more detailed jobs. The method to my madness is that I charge per plant, per tree, labor & materials are all rolled into this. My cost for plants of that size even with discount will vary dependent upon variety, but will generally run anywhere from $20 - $27, I've had some such as Colorado Mountain Dwarf Blue Spruce go as much as $70. Trees also will vary, I just bought a White Ash & Autumn Maple 14 footers for about $80 apiece.

I generally double cost of materials on markup, add 10% for the unforseen. I was using the last job I did as an example 5 plants @ $45 apiece, two trees @ $150 apiece, completed job in about 90 minutes, do the math and yes it is an obscene amount per hour. Degree of difficulty can be exercised if needed in the unforseen column. Hence my figure for the previous post if based upon my costs and methods of pricing and not Walkers. I've not had any complaints until now, sorry to offend.

dvmcmrhp52
11-10-2005, 05:56 PM
very few jobs I charge by the actual hour, I have a good idea of what it takes to do not all but some installs, this experience I've gained this season does come in handy when bidding more detailed jobs. The method to my madness is that I charge per plant, per tree, labor & materials are all rolled into this. My cost for plants of that size even with discount will vary dependent upon variety, but will generally run anywhere from $20 - $27, I've had some such as Colorado Mountain Dwarf Blue Spruce go as much as $70. Trees also will vary, I just bought a White Ash & Autumn Maple 14 footers for about $80 apiece.

I generally double cost of materials on markup, add 10% for the unforseen. I was using the last job I did as an example 5 plants @ $45 apiece, two trees @ $150 apiece, completed job in about 90 minutes, do the math and yes it is an obscene amount per hour. Degree of difficulty can be exercised if needed in the unforseen column. Hence my figure for the previous post if based upon my costs and methods of pricing and not Walkers. I've not had any complaints until now, sorry to offend.



Offend?
Who do you think you were offending?

Green-Pro
11-10-2005, 06:01 PM
$1100 for materials and
$3000 for less than a days work for 2 guys?
A measley $214/man Hr.

And every body wonders why the lawn and landscape business is looked down upon.
And then every body blames the scrubs for their lack of work.

Hint: it ain't the scrubs ruining it.

Sounded like you Dave, if I've ruined the industry for you I'm sorry, but judging from the plethora of pricing threads that appear on this board i.e. prices all over the place, it would seem as there is no absolutes in relation to price with the exception of not covering costs. Anyway in the event my pricing is offensive to you, sorry.

kris
11-10-2005, 06:16 PM
Doesnt really matter what his material costs are to me.... I might be able to get shrubs at half his cost and charge 2x the amount he is.

without getting into the estimating program and checking I can honestly say I could get between 3-4 k.

Green-Pro
11-10-2005, 06:24 PM
Doesnt really matter what his material costs are to me.... I might be able to get shrubs at half his cost and charge 2x the amount he is.

without getting into the estimating program and checking I can honestly say I could get between 3-4 k.

Kris,

Would this be reflective of type and size of plant in relation to your $ figure for estimate? I mean you could have a 5 gal container plant that your cost is up near $75 depending on the type/variety. I guess the numbers I crunched were basd upon a guestimate of the average dollar amount per plant used on most of my jobs. Personally I don't see how 4k is such a stretch.

-Geoff

kris
11-10-2005, 06:29 PM
Kris,

Would this be reflective of type and size of plant in relation to your $ figure for estimate? I mean you could have a 5 gal container plant that your cost is up near $75 depending on the type/variety. I guess the numbers I crunched were basd upon a guestimate of the average dollar amount per plant used on most of my jobs. Personally I don't see how 4k is such a stretch.

-Geoff

It is just an average ..really quick, done in my head...4k is not a stretch and personally have come out at 200hr on many small jobs....no shortage of them either...disclaimer ..I live in the part of the country that is absolutely booming.

walker...how much did you get for it?

Green-Pro
11-10-2005, 06:33 PM
It is just an average ..really quick, done in my head...4k is not a stretch and personally have come out at 200hr on many small jobs....no shortage of them either...disclaimer ..I live in the part of the country that is absolutely booming.


I hear you, frequently on small jobs I make out very well, material costs are the same time constraints are not. No shortage of building here either, especially high end. I don't know where these folks are getting the money to build these high end homes, they sure as heck aren't afraid to spend it. They seem to love to try and out do each other, its really nuts IMHO.

Have a good evening

walker-talker
11-10-2005, 10:56 PM
I charged $1787 for the project, plus tax came out to $1919. My orginal pricing structure was double for all plants. This included installion and warranty. Edging was a per foot charge and trees were $100 over my cost. It didn't come out this way in the end though because prices wern't totally accurate once I got to the wholesaler. Prices were, for most plants, one or two dollars more than what they had listed. Before taxes I made around $700 for the six hours of my labor. I know where I went wrong and what areas I need to adjust prices. In my opinion, I didn't make what I really wanted, but I didn't get exactly hurt either. I feel I should have charged closer to $2500. A buddy of mine was bragging the other day that he knew somebody who landscapes and was making about $40 and hour. I just laughed and informed him that his friend was working way too cheap. Thanks for all the input and will keep working on some sort of method of pricing.

Matt

dvmcmrhp52
11-10-2005, 11:02 PM
I charged $1787 for the project, plus tax came out to $1919. My orginal pricing structure was double for all plants. This included installion and warranty. Edging was a per foot charge and trees were $100 over my cost. It didn't come out this way in the end though because prices wern't totally accurate once I got to the wholesaler. Prices were, for most plants, one or two dollars more than what they had listed. Before taxes I made around $700 for the six hours of my labor. I know where I went wrong and what areas I need to adjust prices. In my opinion, I didn't make what I really wanted, but I didn't get exactly hurt either. I feel I should have charged closer to $2500. A buddy of mine was bragging the other day that he knew somebody who landscapes and was making about $40 and hour. I just laughed and informed him that his friend was working way too cheap. Thanks for all the input and will keep working on some sort of method of pricing.

Matt



Personally I think the $2500 would have been a good price, but everyone has to deal with different circumstances and if you can make more and the market will bear it then have at it.

Green-Pro
11-10-2005, 11:29 PM
If you can learn where you want to price and as Dave put what your market will bear, without getting stung in the pocket, then I'd say you made a good start Matt. Good luck with the branching out.

-Geoff

jwholden
11-11-2005, 07:31 PM
Can we see a shot of the finished product?

desertrat
11-11-2005, 08:33 PM
$1100 costs, $4000 for the job is $2900 profit for a days work. That is $725k a year 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. No way! Making a few beds, people around here would just laugh at you. Maybe you could make that kind of money doing amazing hardscape work with the best reputation in town, and even then. I do all kinds of work and make good money, but come on. I could get my whole house tiled for $5000, put up a block wall around my house for $5500, a new AC unit for $5000. I understand I don't have a million dollar home, but those people still know what things cost. I am not really knocking the $4000 price just amazed that people where you are pay it. I do great work, and charge good money for it, but it ain't rocket science, and there is no way I could get that kind of money. I guess I am just jealous.

o-so-n-so
11-13-2005, 08:48 PM
Personally I like the small jobs like the one you just done. In and out in a day, money in the hand. If you could do a job like that each day you would make some good money in a months time. Just hard to get those kinda jobs. You done ok on the money. It takes time to tweak the whole estimating process in the landscaping end. :D

walker-talker
11-14-2005, 09:09 AM
Can we see a shot of the finished product?They are on the camera now, but I will try and get them online this afternoon.

yrdandgardenhandyman
11-16-2005, 05:35 PM
Sounded like you Dave, if I've ruined the industry for you I'm sorry, but judging from the plethora of pricing threads that appear on this board i.e. prices all over the place, it would seem as there is no absolutes in relation to price with the exception of not covering costs. Anyway in the event my pricing is offensive to you, sorry.



Point is that every area is different economically and different prices have to be ascertained depending on those economic conditions. In example, our gas prices never went above the $3.00 mark this year. Housing and food prices are different. My area will be hurting a bit next spring because of the cost of heating.
Also, some areas have clay soil, some sand and if you are lucky, like my area, 2 feet of rich topsoil with the occasional head sized rock buried in it. Every job is a little different. Every landscape company is a little different and most of all, every client is different. I suppose that explains the difference in prices for the same area.
There are just too many variables to come up with a one size fits all pricing structure. I have found the $1.00 per minute goal, for landscape projects, as very achievable here. Mowing is a different story.
You just have to make sure that you make money (knowing your costs) while charging a fee that makes you decent money within what your local market will bear.payup

M RASCOE&SONS
11-27-2005, 05:29 PM
i think if you doubled the material costs and added the design fee and helper fee into your bid you would be doing it for a fair price ($1980.+ tax) your putting a grand in your pocket,not bad for 7 hrs work.