eXmark stander?

[chopsticks33]

will there ever be a standing mower by exmark??

[eXmark]

Hi chopsticks33,
We have looked at this market many times, but we have not seen the growth in the market to justify our R & D. It isn't to say there isn't a need, but it is not the hot project at this time. We introduced the Phazer 34" & 44", Frontrunner and Navigator in the last 12 months.
Thanks, Brian

[chariot]

You've not seen the growth in the market for a stand on because eXmark does not make one. We're all waiting on you guys at eXmark to built us the stand on that we want. I'm ready for one!! If you built it, they will sell...

[vanguard]

You've not seen the growth in the market for a stand on because eXmark does not make one. We're all waiting on you guys at eXmark to built us the stand on that we want. I'm ready for one!! If you built it, they will sell...
Yes Sir....Ditto That!!!

[Mowingman]

I agree with Exmark. There is very little market for stander-type machines except in small areas of the country. There are already 3 maanufacturers of standup machines, and without more market, where are the sales going to come from. When we opened our store, we were going to be a Wright dealer. Thank God that did not work out. I bet there are not more than 5 or 6 Standers of any kind sold in our whole county, and we are in one of the fastest growing counties in the USA. There are hundreds of mowing contractors around here, all buying walkbehinds, or ZTR's, but not standers.
Other than the ability to handle some pretty steep hills, what is the real reason for buying a stander? Exmark and others offer nice, sit-down ZTR's that cost no more than a similar size stand-up machine. And, most new, start-up companies will buy a walkbehind, as they are looking to get some commercial mowers, at very low prices. I say Exmark and the other manufacturers are making a wise decision to not build stand-up machines. Use that design budget to improve on their ZTR's and walkbehinds. That is where the market is.
Just my opinion.

[TClawn]

I would buy a stander if they made it. especially if it came up to a 60" deck size, and went as small as 34".

[mulcahy mowing]

ya i'll buy in

[TClawn]

but what would be even better, is something like the toro dingo and a Z crossed. multi purpose, but with a faster ground speed, and the ability to do a lot of mowing.

[JKOOPERS]

i personally think standers are unsafe and useless.

[PTP]

i personally think standers are unsafe and useless.
Well that settles it then.

[cochino12]

Hi chopsticks33,
We have looked at this market many times, but we have not seen the growth in the market to justify our R & D. It isn't to say there isn't a need, but it is not the hot project at this time. We introduced the Phazer 34" & 44", Frontrunner and Navigator in the last 12 months.
Thanks, Brian

Any idea what the price will be on the phazer? I cant seem to find it on the website. thanks

[chopsticks33]

http://lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=124110

[DRM Ventures]

i personally think standers are unsafe and useless.


Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but is it based on personal experience?

Have you used one? Have you used one long enough to develop productive use?

What is unsafe about them?.......The fact that you can bail off at any moment if necessary, the deadman that kills it when you step off, the excellent visibility it affords? Maybe the the very low center of gravity that make it so stable...

As far as useless.....that really is a vague and wide open statement (an opinion of course). My Stander has cut my mowing time by 20-30%, eliminated a ton of trimming, freed up space on my trailer, allowed me to add clients due to productvity. So for me, it is the most useful item on my trailer.

I would love to see Exmark build a Stander.......the more competition the better! I think Standers are regional because not many have used/tried them...or even had the opportunity.

Also many are set in their ways......."new stuff is bad..."

Derek

[eXmark]

Any idea what the price will be on the phazer? I cant seem to find it on the website. thanks

Good morning cochino12,
The 34" Phazer is around $5100 and the 44" is $5300. These are rounded figures and may vary at your local dealer.
Thanks, Brian

[TClawn]

hey brian, why not post the msrps of your whole lineup in a sticky thread, and it would save a lot of typing.

I know that the dealers independantly set their own price, but hustler does the exact same thing, and they have a sticky thread with their msrps, and I have found it a good referance.

[eXmark]

hey brian, why not post the msrps of your whole lineup in a sticky thread, and it would save a lot of typing.

I know that the dealers independantly set their own price, but hustler does the exact same thing, and they have a sticky thread with their msrps, and I have found it a good referance.

Hey TClawn,
The reason we don't is that it makes it then very easy for all competitors to see and some distributors actually run aggressive promotions in their areas and gets us into pricing conflicts. May seem strange but not posting has been more beneficial than posting.

Thanks
Brian

[TClawn]

but if your competitors really want to know your prices, they can just E-mail and say: my name is joe blow, I am interested in etc.

it almost seems like the price is a secret?

whenever I am comparing models, and want to get a general idea of price, I always have a hard time figuring out what the exmark would cost. it would just make it a lot easier for everyone, your typing fingers included :).

[exmarkjockey]

Build a stander and I'll buy 3. I owned a couple of Super Surfers (great concept; lowsy production and parts). Exmark is really missing out an this corner of the market. There may not be a nationwide need for standers, but there is a market in some areas. I personally have no need for the Navigator or the Phazer, but that doesn't mean that someone else doesn't. Exmark needs to listen to the suggestions of its loyal customers a little more or it's going to lose them.

[impactlandscaping]

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but is it based on personal experience?

Have you used one? Have you used one long enough to develop productive use?

What is unsafe about them?.......The fact that you can bail off at any moment if necessary, the deadman that kills it when you step off, the excellent visibility it affords? Maybe the the very low center of gravity that make it so stable...

As far as useless.....that really is a vague and wide open statement (an opinion of course). My Stander has cut my mowing time by 20-30%, eliminated a ton of trimming, freed up space on my trailer, allowed me to add clients due to productvity. So for me, it is the most useful item on my trailer.

I would love to see Exmark build a Stander.......the more competition the better! I think Standers are regional because not many have used/tried them...or even had the opportunity.

Also many are set in their ways......."new stuff is bad..."

Derek


I'll echo what Derek said as well. We switched to Standers last June, and have seen as much as 50% time reduction on some lawns, most averaging 30% or better. We are buying a third unit this spring, and I wouldn't even consider another walk behind or Z for our maint crew. There are only 2 other Standers in use in the local area that I am aware of, and I think we are ahead of the curve in production time. I hope no one else around here buys a stand on mower and realizes how much more mowing they can accomplish in a week.

[tallimeca]

Standers, like the Walker mid bagging machines, are Niche machines. The walker style machines only sell approx 6-7k units a year. That's is walker, Buton BZT, Bobcat BZT, Scag Cougar, Toro Z master. That is a very TINY piece of the market. I would pleased that they went after the Walker market (again). The Navigator is a great machine and if they only built this thing back when they came out with the Explorer, when this style machine was catching on, my pockets would be alot fatter!!!!

As an exmark dealer, I wouldn't mind seeing a stand on option. At that point, they would have ever mowing option available and cover the market.

They have the Metro, Viking, Turf Tracer, Lazers, Navigator, Phazer, and now the Front Runner. A stand on unit would round on the market and give a customer no reason to leave if you don't have that option to sell.

However........these companies spend alot of money to get sales number, and if the market isn't growing and they don't see room for expansion in the market, the R&D would be a complete waste.

With the Bunton and Bobcat BZT's not taking as much of the Walker Market as they were shaped up to, and the Scag Cougar gone (is it actually out of production), their is room for the Navigator to grow.

With the lack of machines out there that compare to the grasshopper units, there is definetely room for the Front Runner. It is a real nice piece.

The Phazer has room to grow in the home owner, commercial property maintanence, and commercial cutter market.

It all makes sense. Even though I would love Exmark to build it, I don't know if a stand on (would love to hear what name they would come up with for it), would sink or swim.

[blackandgold]

There are actually 4 "brands" building stand on units Great Dane, Deere, Wright, and now the Everide.

With ZTR mowers being such a competitive business these days, if there was a great market for standers, you would see 10-15 manufacturers in the business by now. Sit down ZTR mowers has seen tremendous growth and that's why you see 40+ brands.

I would guess if the market was stronger, Hustler, Toro, Scag, Dixie Chopper and Ferris would be on top of it too.

[ALarsh]

If Toro made one I would buy it.

[HenryB]

There is a patent wich is stopping the competitors.

[DRM Ventures]

Aren't Deere, Everide, and GD all the same mower besides deck differences......


Derek

[mulcahy mowing]

There are actually 4 "brands" building stand on units Great Dane, Deere, Wright, and now the Everide.

With ZTR mowers being such a competitive business these days, if there was a great market for standers, you would see 10-15 manufacturers in the business by now. Sit down ZTR mowers has seen tremendous growth and that's why you see 40+ brands.

I would guess if the market was stronger, Hustler, Toro, Scag, Dixie Chopper and Ferris would be on top of it too.
I don't know about your area, but if you look here there are many more standers than z's. I'm one of the few who runs a sit down, standers are much more productive IMO my next mower will be a stander. I just hope it will have eXmark red on it!!

[blackandgold]

Here in the midwest, there are pockets where Wright is trying to get it going. Kansas City has seen some growth with standers, and parts of Illinois. But St Louis and the rest of the upper midwest has had little impact by the standers. Sit down Z riders take over the bulk of the market except for St Louis where Exmark and Ferris still see strong walkbehind sales.

Great Dane has had so many distributors in the midwest, even their dealers dont know which direction to go. They are a non factor in the Z rider, walk or stander market in the midwest.

To answer the Great Dane, Deere, and Everide deck question, I think they are all the same model except the deck--correct. Doesn't seem like efficient manufacturing, but that's for them to figure out.

The Wright patent may have an impact on the reason why other manufacturers havn't gotten into the stander market.

I know Hustler was going to get into trouble from Wright a few years ago when they had the Shortcut. This was a great rear discharge bagger rider and also came in side discharge in which the operator could stand or sit down. Wright put an end to that unit.

Any other thoughts on this subject????

[jazak]

If you guys want a stander then get a Wright. The other companies have still not understood the market. Out here I know 3 guys who all the use are stander and a few WBs, and like 3 big Zs. Out here its either WB, Stander for lots of the guys. If you have big lawns then a Z but I have seen guys use the stander on large properties. EverRide and GreatDane also have a standers.

[ALarsh]

I won't buy a Wright because the quality of cut sucks... A LCO switched from Ferris Z's to Wright Stander's this year and his lawns don't look good at all. If it had a turboforce deck on it, I would buy it.

[DRM Ventures]

I won't buy a Wright because the quality of cut sucks... A LCO switched from Ferris Z's to Wright Stander's this year and his lawns don't look good at all. If it had a turboforce deck on it, I would buy it.


Unless you have personal experience and know that the machines are set up correctly, I am not sure you can speak with validity. My Stander has excellent quality of cut and I think you will find that the majority of actual Stander owner's/users will disagree with you.

D

[jtkplc]

Unless you have personal experience and know that the machines are set up correctly, I am not sure you can speak with validity. My Stander has excellent quality of cut and I think you will find that the majority of actual Stander owner's/users will disagree with you.

D

Yep, I will. The older Standers have a pretty good cut except in really tall, thick grass, but the newers ones with faster blade tip speed, cut very well. In fact it's almost hard to tell it apart from the cut of our Exmark w/ ultracut deck. We use medium lift blades, and I would think that high lift blades would leave an even better cut, especially in tall, thick grass.

[HazellLawnCare]

Come on guys get on the ball!! I am buying 4 standers before next March and I hope they are red instead of Wrights but that is my other option.

[A.D Services]

you all who wants a stander just go out and buy a great dane super surfer. those are the best machines ever and the quality of cut was awsome

[John Gamba]

toro..........................................................07

[HazellLawnCare]

Lets hope the Toro 07 is true! I looked at the Wrights again today I need to know something before December 31 so I don't miss out on Wright's pricing right now.

[jtkplc]

you all who wants a stander just go out and buy a great dane super surfer. those are the best machines ever and the quality of cut was awsome

Do you have experience with a Wright to know that the Super Surfer is so much better?

[A.D Services]

no, i admit i have never used a stander. however i have done much research and comparing and have come to conclusion that the SS is better. considering the ss has a full floating deck and a spring loaded platform and like the way the ss steers. sure nat as many deck options but hey i only need a forty eight inch deck. i love my ss

[HenryB]

I've owned both and like the Dane a lot better; although the Wright is a great machine also, it needs a floating deck. The Wright is a little better on hills though.

[Envy Lawn Service]

I think most forget or are unaware of the Gen II decks that are on the new Danes.

To look at it, I didn't think it would cut for crap, but the cut quality is really great.
Much better than the old decks.

On the side of Wright though.... haven't they had a floater for like a year or more?

[DRM Ventures]

yes and now they have a baffle along the front cutting edge......it is a bolt on that can be retro fitted to older mowers......My 05 already has the holes drilled for it.....

[MattsMowing3535]

I don't understand why companies like toro or exmark havent started makeing a stander line. Toro is based right here in minnesota and every other LCO has a stander. Some of the larger companies around here have 25+ standers. I would think that toro would see so many right around here and decide to make a bigger better one! I belive exmark is owned by toro? I would like to see the first one of a kind all around best stander be theres!

[Green King]

You guys might take a look at the everide I beleve there is a price advantage over the Great Dane!

I do agree with Exmark I mow in the third largest city in MO. and I can count on one hand the number of standers of any color running around!

[Green King]

I also think the lack of sales is why Wright is now trying to market a ztr mower!

[Envy Lawn Service]

Standers are a niche market because LCO's as a whole are real slow to try new things.

But I don't think that has a lot to do with why other companies don't have them too. The reason is a little thing called patent infrengement. Build one and you can bet Wright will file suit, and Great Dane too.

Recall that Wright sued Great Dane over the Surfers and won.
Great Dane lost, had to make changes and jump through all kinds of hoops to keep building.

I think that between the two, they pretty much have the segment sown up.
When patents start expiring, a bunch more MFG's with the R&D money will jump on board.

[pugs]

On the side of Wright though.... haven't they had a floater for like a year or more?

No, the standers do not have floating decks. They have the Rapid Height adjustment but its still a fixed deck.

The Sentars may be floating...I would have to check to be sure.

[John Gamba]

No, the standers do not have floating decks. They have the Rapid Height adjustment but its still a fixed deck.

The Sentars may be floating...I would have to check to be sure.


The sentars and the rh stander use the same engine bolted to deck design. very heavy for floating.

[A.D Services]

You guys might take a look at the everide I beleve there is a price advantage over the Great Dane!

I do agree with Exmark I mow in the third largest city in MO. and I can count on one hand the number of standers of any color running around!


but isnt everide the same as great dane? why would the price be lower?

and also yes great dane did not have good cutting machines in the earlier years but now they cut awsome. the only thing i dont get about their decks is the antiscalp wheels. there are only two under the deck in the back

[blackandgold]

Green King,

Are you in Columbia, MO? I'm there all the time, havn't seen standers on any trailers...maybe I've been on the wrong side of town.

What do you run for mowers?

[Idealtim]

The sentars and the rh stander use the same engine bolted to deck design. very heavy for floating.



Your saying the motor is rigid with the deck? Something would be wrong if it wasn't heavy.

[John Gamba]

Your saying the motor is rigid with the deck? Something would be wrong if it wasn't heavy.


Hustler did it with the 251 and 260K.

[russ and sons]

Green King,

Are you in Columbia, MO? I'm there all the time, havn't seen standers on any trailers...maybe I've been on the wrong side of town.

What do you run for mowers?

i believe the third largetst city in missouri is Springfield , Mo. it is in the southwest corner of the state .

russ