PDA

View Full Version : Extreme Wall building


cedarcroft
11-13-2005, 06:46 PM
I am a sub that has been contracted to build a 170' long retaining wall that at its highest will be about 12 feet. the wall is going to go into a slope that is at best 35 degrees and at its worst about 45-50 degrees. excavation starts tomorrow, blocks (anchor product) arrive wednesday. this is a first for me, so I am bringing a friend in from atlanta to help. I would like to post pics here when its done, just gotta figger out how to do it.
any advice or suggestions?

GreenMonster
11-13-2005, 07:27 PM
Sounds like a great job to get your feet wet in walls!

:rolleyes:

sheshovel
11-13-2005, 07:37 PM
I would contact the county to see if they require it to be engineered or not and check to see if local permits are going to be needed.Then go from there.

kris
11-13-2005, 08:44 PM
12' high wall should be engineered.

mbella
11-13-2005, 09:02 PM
What kind of experience do you have building walls? Construction begins tomorrow and the only thing that remains in your preparation is to "figger out how to do it." Is this a joke?

One suggestion, find somebody that knows what they're doing and led them build this wall. Chances are that won't happen because you probably under bid the job.

olderthandirt
11-13-2005, 09:42 PM
Sounds like a great job to get your feet wet in walls!

:rolleyes:

Sounds like a joke :dizzy: 1 yr biz experience and gonna try 12'? Give me a break:waving:

mrusk
11-13-2005, 09:47 PM
You screw up on a retaining wall and some one can die. This ain't a little garden or decortive wall, this is holding ALOT back.

So what are you going to use, a 8 ft step ladder to build the top corses of the wall?

JS Landscaping
11-13-2005, 11:10 PM
I think he means "figger out how to do it", in refrence to posting pictures of it. Well I certainly hope thats what he means! ;)

sheshovel
11-13-2005, 11:14 PM
OOHHH I see ...he needs to fiqure out how to post PICs of the wall not figure out how to Build the wall right?
If so sorry guys I read and answered that post incorrectly....if that's what was ment by
"figure it out".?

cedarcroft
11-14-2005, 12:54 PM
I am bringing in my friend from ATlanta who is extremely well versed in retaining wall building. His mian function will be to oversee myself and my crew as we build the wall. I am hiring him so I can learn from an expert. I am a sub on the job hired to stack blocks and only stack blocks. all permits, engineering and design have been taken care of by the company whose job it is. I was, in fact, refering to posting pictures when stating I needed to "figger" it out. The excavation is being done today and tomorrow by a very well known and reputable local company. Although a step ladder might be an option to some, we will be utilizing a Lull, a backhoe and skid steer for the duration of the job.
I know there are a lot of dooshbags out there, but I assure you I am not one of them. I would never even consider doing this wall on my own without a plan, engineering and an expert on site. as for underbidding, nice jab, but I didn't bid the job. I believe the contractor is getting $23 pr sq ft. I am getting $9 for my labor. he is laying out all money and equipment, I am stacking blocks.
breathe deep folks........everything is OK

mbella
11-14-2005, 01:11 PM
I misunderstood the "figger it out" part. I apologize for that.

What kind of experience does your friend from Atlanta have building walls similar in scale to the one you will be building?

Definitely post pics from start to finish.

Need a Little Trim
11-14-2005, 01:15 PM
I want to see the pics for sure....will be expanding the business to this shortly since all old construction will need to be redone from hurricane.

cedarcroft
11-14-2005, 03:32 PM
I will post all pics as soon as I "figger" that part out!!:)

as for my man from Atlanta's experience, he3 owns his own company for 5 years and only works with builders. the majority of his business is retaining walls, drainage and grading. He also does finish work for the builders (hardscapes, sod, planting) Prior to his own company he worked for a few large landscape contractors and golf course builders since 1991 or 1992. he is very meticulous and a true professional. I brought him in because of his experience. I hope to learn alot and this wall covers just about all I will ever come across. steep slope, two tiers and alot of excavation.

Foz
11-14-2005, 05:15 PM
You know what amazes me on this site? The absolute lack of support for fellow contractors......the first thing I picked up on in the opening post is "bring in from Atlanta" if you want to bash someone, some of you should bash yourselves for being idiots!!!

Here is a guy trying to post, and obviously if he is from NY and the guy he is bringing in is from Atlanta then he has some clue that he needs help with the job. NEXT TIME MAYBE ASK THE QUESTION BEFORE YOU LAY THE GUY OUT!!!

The only thing I see is that if Cedar is a business owner, he should get better than $9 for his own labor, but if he is happy with that to get the experience, so be it. The overhead is all by the bidder apparently, so why not help the guy before you knock him down. Remember, we all started somewhere!

I see many posts on here from people looking for advice, isn't that what the forum is for? I'm sure that I myself could give much advice to many of you that think you are better than most, and I could also take some advice from some of you......use the forum for what it was intended.

THANKS
M J Foster

olderthandirt
11-14-2005, 06:48 PM
Foz, before you jump maybe reread

I am a sub that has been contracted to build a 170' long retaining wall that at its highest will be about 12 feet

this is a first for me, so I am bringing a friend in from atlanta to help.

I am a sub on the job hired to stack blocks and only stack blocks.

I am bringing in my friend from ATlanta who is extremely well versed in retaining wall building. His mian function will be to oversee myself and my crew as we build the wall.

Now do you notice the contradictions? Hint I under lined them for you. and your contribution to a guy that has no experience building a wall of this size it so say

The only thing I see is that if Cedar is a business owner, he should get better than $9 for his own labor,

What about safety, engineering or asking how he got a job of this scope with out experience? I care more for the safety of the people around the wall than if he's making $9 an hr.

Stick around awhile and maybe you will learn something, after all thats what the forums for :waving:

cedarcroft
11-14-2005, 07:37 PM
What about safety, engineering or asking how he got a job of this scope with out experience? I care more for the safety of the people around the wall than if he's making $9 an hr.

I got a job of this scope because I do good work and the contractor asked me if I could do it. I said "no, not by myself" and proceeded to explain that I would need to bring someone in to help. he was cool with that. I am fully insured and workers comp etc. I am legit. there is no contradiction. the guy from atlanta is coming in to make sure we do the job correctly. I am sorry if my wording is off. He is an expert, I am not. he will be responsible for the base course and making sure everything is done to code. As I said earlier, we are following a plan and doing it right. I am not doing it for $9 an hour. I wouldn't leave my house for that. I am doing it for $9 a sq ft. its approximately 1800 sq ft.
Thanks for the support Foz and all I really am looking for is some experienced folks to give some helpful suggestions and/or heads up on issues that I might come across. as for the engineering and design, the wall is being done right with geo mat every 2 courses and plenty of drainage.

UNISCAPER
11-15-2005, 01:55 AM
What is the soil stacking angle and/or cohesion factor? Further, what soil type do you have, that should be two letters on the comprehensive soil analysis page of the study. Are there any special instructions for application written on the soils report? Is there any fill near around or under the footing space?
You mention a pretty steep slope. What precautions have been taken to acheive global stability, and in the soils report, has the engineer provided a global stability analysis?? How many feet to daylight is the wall face?

I got the part about the grid every 2 course, my question is what weight grid, and how long is the grid from the connection point on the wall? What type of compaction equipment are you running? At the numbers you quoted, you better have a pad foot vibratory roller and a few Wackers. And, are you making the cuts to install the grid, or is that done for you? If it is you, for that price you will loose your rear end. Is you $9.00 an SF just labor, or are you bringing in all the 3/4 gravel/grid fabric and drains for that?

Are you able to use native soils in the reinforcement zone, or do you have to bring in import?

Are you punching drains through the wall face, or is there a sub drain system in place already?

Have you cross checked the grid lengths and weighs based on soils type and loads on top of the wall on any type of engineering program? I always double check engineers work and never trust soley what they write. We caught a few who did not know what they were doing with SRW walls.

Just things you need to check to make sure you are on track. And lastly. Does your general liability insurance policy have any exclusions for retaining walls? If so, what are the hieght limitations, and is there any no load clause? Meaning the wall must bear no load.

You are entering into the highest liability aspect of the landscape/engineering profession and though your freind from Atlanta may have the expertise to help assisit you in building your first wall, the burden of liability falls on your shoulders if something goes wrong. you have every right to know all the criteria taken into consideration when the wall was designed...
If you don't have the right insurances, and the wall has a failure, you could loose everything you own if enough damage is caused.

Don't take this as a slam by any means. These are things you have to have if you are entering into these types of jobs.

sheshovel
11-15-2005, 02:59 AM
It was cedarcrofts style of writing his post that thru us,we were not slamming just giving sound advice as to what we read and how it sounded to us.
No need to get nasty FOZ.....

cedarcroft
11-15-2005, 10:00 AM
Bill Schwab,
this is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. I am going to print your post and ask every one of those questions to the contractor prior to doing anything. I am confident that he will have the answers as he is one of the biggest landscpe design/build firms in the area. The job has been put off a few days due to impending storms. the excavator needs 2 days to get his end done and so he can't start until thursday now. gives me some time to get answers.
I also want to assure all of you that I would rather walk away from a job like this than do it half a$$ed. If the situatiuon isn't right, I will not do it. I have a family and business on the line and nothing is worth jeopordizing that.
thanks for the input.

Foz
11-15-2005, 06:40 PM
I'm not getting nasty, just pointing out that noone wanted to encourage cedar or give him tips until Uniscaper. The idea of this forum I thought was to promote professional work. Educate people before you start bashing them.

Cedar has an idea of what he is trying to do, and Uniscaper's post is what he was looking for, not the slams. I misread his post as well, at $9 per hour when he meant $9 per SF, the difference is I didn't bad mouth him for it!

At $9 per SF over 1800 SF that is $16,200, if he gets $50 per hour per person, he has 324 manhours of labor, if he makes a profit at $40 per manhour then he has 405 manhours....so a 4 man crew for 12 days.....and that is making money on labor while still paying help $16 per hour

Why not help him do it right, tell him what to look out for, he can protect himself by reading posts like the one from Uniscaper, double check & make sure the engineering is done properly.

All I was saying about this thread and many others is that many members are more eager to bash other members than to help them......are some of you afraid of competition????? I myself having been in business for some time would much rather educate my competition to bid & install properly rather than undercut prices.......a well educated competitor will only allow you to increase prices as they will know their costs & the proper installation techniques to estimate the right amount of labor & equipment.

mbella
11-15-2005, 08:47 PM
Foz, in light of the fact that the only other members, from New York, that posted in this thread are you and JS, I don't think competition has anything to do with it. I think it has more to do with personalities and state of mind when posting.

I misread the original post and apologized. As well as offering an apology, I asked what type of experience Cedarcroft's friend has. I'm ok with that.

I wish all of my posts could be the quality of Bill Schwab's. However, there's one problem: I don't know half of what Bill knows. I would venture to say he is, by far, the most knowledgeable member in this forum.

That said, unless the powers that be ban everybody whose name isn't Bill Schwab from posting, the responses won't all be the quality of Bill's.

Personally, for me, this site is half educational and half entertainment. I enjoy the different personalities. If every post was like Bill's (no offense Bill), I would get bored.

Green-Pro
11-15-2005, 08:54 PM
Foz, in light of the fact that the only other members, from New York, that posted in this thread are you and JS, I don't think competition has anything to do with it. I think it has more to do with personalities and state of mind when posting.

I misread the original post and apologized. As well as offering an apology, I asked what type of experience Cedarcroft's friend has. I'm ok with that.

I wish all of my posts could be the quality of Bill Schwab's. However, there's one problem: I don't know half of what Bill knows. I would venture to say he is, by far, the most knowledgeable member in this forum.

That said, unless the powers that be ban everybody whose name isn't Bill Schwab from posting, the responses won't all be the quality of Bill's.

Personally, for me, this site is half educational and half entertainment. I enjoy the different personalities. If every post was like Bill's (no offense Bill), I would get bored.


You said a mouthful there Mike.

Sometimes ya gotta take it with a grain of salt & remember its an Internet forum, testosterone contests are especially funny in this sort of venue :p

mbella
11-15-2005, 09:19 PM
You said a mouthful there Mike.

Sometimes ya gotta take it with a grain of salt & remember its an Internet forum, testosterone contests are especially funny in this sort of venue :p

Did you believe any of it?:)

GreenMonster
11-15-2005, 09:20 PM
IMO, the whole thing still seems a little fishy.

Why would the biggest/best landscacpe contractor sub out an inexperienced guy to build a wall of this magnitude???

Maybe it's just trolling, maybe it's legit. Just seems odd to me. Whatever though, makes no difference to me.

Good luck, Cedar.

Green-Pro
11-15-2005, 09:57 PM
Did you believe any of it?:)


Sure did!! Now is the check in the mail? :waving:

UNISCAPER
11-15-2005, 10:14 PM
He will need a 4 man crew for 3 1/2 weeks (680 man hours) with good access and ideal soil compaction. If he has trouble getting 90% or there is too much moisture retention in the soil, he needs to figure that.

I have to admit, when I see a first time wall installer tackling a 12' wall I get a little nervous.

Foz
11-15-2005, 10:30 PM
Thanks Bill! That is the kind of information I like to see, the only question is whether he indeed is just stacking blocks, and if the "contractor" is responsible for backfill & compaction. At any rate the information you provided is the kind of responses I would expect. I personnaly don't care if he makes money or not, just that he can obtain the kind of information he requested.

By the way, nice website you have & thanks for your knowledge. We do some retaining wall work, but I was impressed with some of your project photos, makes me feel like our walls are small potatoes, but then again out here people don't spend big $ on hardscapes except for around the lakes.

UNISCAPER
11-15-2005, 11:07 PM
Thanks all for the kind words. The cool thing about these sites is the exchange of knowledge. When you give you always gain.

cedarcroft
11-16-2005, 12:16 AM
I don't know what trolling is, I hear that term used on the Jeep board I belong to and I just know its a negative thing. so back off. I was given the job because I am very serious about my business and he likes what he has seen me do so far. I met him through the supply yard we both use and as stated earlier, I told him I couldn't do the job without help from an expert. he appreciated my honesty and we worked it out. the entire wall is not 12' high. not that its an eeasy wall by any means, but there is only one section that is going to be tiered. That section is about 40' long. every person here had to start somewhere. no one is born with the knowledge and skills to build a wall or do hardscapes. everyone had to work with, or under a mentor to learn how to do things. I am using this very rare opportunity to learn. the rare opportunity part is that I will be involved with a complex project that will probably cover every aspect of wall buiulding under the tutelage of an expert. it will be doen right, I will learn a tremendous amount and I will have a base knowledge for the next (less extreme) wall I build. Thats how people build a business. Applied Knowledge.

Gravel Rat
11-16-2005, 01:17 AM
If I was trying to hold 12' of soil back I would be using something a little larger than hand stacked blocks. Around here contractors either use 500lb plus rocks or concrete lock blocks they weigh about 1 ton each.

The concrete lock blocks come with a split face they look pretty good plus the have the mass to hold a decent bank back.

I think this guy is a litte over his head on this job I hope you are prepared to move thousands of blocks.

PurpHaze
11-16-2005, 09:35 AM
I don't know what trolling is, I hear that term used on the Jeep board I belong to and I just know its a negative thing. so back off.

It usually refers to someone that comes into a discussion forum and stirs things up, either between that person and the rest of the group or by getting the group members at each others' throats and then sits back and watches the fun. :p

UNISCAPER
11-16-2005, 10:22 AM
That is a thought. You could use "Redi-Rock", they measure 2'x2'x4', weigh in at 1600 lbs each, and are engineered to go 11' or 12' high (I forgot which) with no grid. Less soil cut, and you could have the whole wall done in a week. The downside is the week long use of a crane, but labor could pencil out. Just level your base prior to the wall arriving, so when the crane comes all you do is stack and go.

sheshovel
11-16-2005, 01:10 PM
{Quote}FOZ
You know what amazes me on this site? The absolute lack of support for fellow contractors......the first thing I picked up on in the opening post is "bring in from Atlanta" if you want to bash someone, some of you should bash yourselves for being idiots!!!
{quote by FOZ}

Well ya know what FOZ?
I answered him with the fact that he should check for permits and get it engineered..that's slamming?
that's not good advice?From where I was looking he was starting from scratch with nothing and no idea what was happining at all.READ it again.
So the first advice I gave is the first steps I would take in a job like this.He did not say he already had the engineering in the 1st post.
We do support other contractors so you don't need to tell us what this site is about,
we freely give of our knowlage here and if to gain some of that you have to take a slam every once in awhile then that's the price to be paid.Tuff luck
We give plenty of support,
but we are adults here no need to beat around the jock strap ya know?\FOZ
Do not expect me to cuddle and give great big happy hugs and kisses to anybody
and do not call
people idiots and then say your not getting nasty.

Lawnworks
11-17-2005, 11:25 PM
{Quote}FOZ
You know what amazes me on this site? The absolute lack of support for fellow contractors......the first thing I picked up on in the opening post is "bring in from Atlanta" if you want to bash someone, some of you should bash yourselves for being idiots!!!
{quote by FOZ}

Well ya know what FOZ?
I answered him with the fact that he should check for permits and get it engineered..that's slamming?
that's not good advice?From where I was looking he was starting from scratch with nothing and no idea what was happining at all.READ it again.
So the first advice I gave is the first steps I would take in a job like this.He did not say he already had the engineering in the 1st post.
We do support other contractors so you don't need to tell us what this site is about,
we freely give of our knowlage here and if to gain some of that you have to take a slam every once in awhile then that's the price to be paid.Tuff luck
We give plenty of support,
but we are adults here no need to beat around the jock strap ya know?\FOZ
Do not expect me to cuddle and give great big happy hugs and kisses to anybody
and do not call
people idiots and then say your not getting nasty.

I think it is time for another session w/ your psychiatrist sheshovel... geez.

mbella
11-17-2005, 11:41 PM
Lawnworks, in my opinion, Sheshovel is right. Don't have such thin skin. Why is it that when members that NEVER post in the Hardscape Forum, all the sudden post about an installation, that should be installed by a seasoned installer, get some flack, the cry babies come out of the wood work.

Get over it.

PurpHaze
11-18-2005, 09:51 AM
The main thing we tend to forget from time to time is that the bottom line on something like this is that it really doesn't matter, good or bad, what we might think of a particular project. If the customer is happy with the work then that's all that matters. I'm sure we've all walked away from a project saying to ourselves, "I'm really not happy with the way everything looks but that's what the customer wanted." :p

mrusk
11-18-2005, 08:22 PM
The main thing we tend to forget from time to time is that the bottom line on something like this is that it really doesn't matter, good or bad, what we might think of a particular project. If the customer is happy with the work then that's all that matters. I'm sure we've all walked away from a project saying to ourselves, "I'm really not happy with the way everything looks but that's what the customer wanted." :p


Your wrong buddy. On a project like this if something aint done right someone could get hurt or killed.

PurpHaze
11-18-2005, 10:48 PM
Your wrong buddy. On a project like this if something aint done right someone could get hurt or killed.

You could be very right and we all know that engineers can be wrong too. I wasn't addressing the engineering aspect, rather the aesthetics aspect. Sorry you didn't understand that. I'll try and make it plainer next time.

all ferris
11-20-2005, 10:34 PM
I look forward to seeing the pics. I get the vibe that he will do a great job and seems to eager to learn. We all have to start somewhere and I commend him for not being afraid to take on this job. Come on... Let's not discourage.

cedarcroft
11-21-2005, 06:10 PM
well, we are 3 days into it and moving along slowly, but surely. due to the extreme slope the excavztor couldn't get in as well as he wanted so we are doing alot of hand digging. I moved about 250 yards of bank run yesterday to clear the next section of wall. its going well and today the engineering inspector from the town came by and said we were doing a good job. he was happy with our work so far. I took pics yesterday and will take more as we get further along.

UNISCAPER
11-21-2005, 06:22 PM
Cedar:

Great to hear you are doing a good job by the inspectors visit. I do have one question though. Did he take soils hardness tests either by using the nuclear device, or by the old school of the cone and scale method?

cedarcroft
11-21-2005, 09:50 PM
I do not know what he did. However, On Long Island the soil is mostly sand (bank run). The slope we are on has about 2' of topsoil/loam that is filled with roots and then about 40' of sandy bank run. Ideal for drainage, not Ideal for excavating. its been slow going but we are getting it done. we are using 6' geogrid, back 6' every 2 courses as per the plan specs. each course is setback 1" and it is set on top of a RCA footing that is about 12" deep and 2.5' wide. we have a perforated pipe running the entire length of the wall with "T's" evry 20 feet to send the water out to the parking lot. the gravel behind the wall is about 18" before we back fill and tamp. we are taking our time and I am learning an enormous amount.
quick jobsite story: I was on the Bobcat bringing a skid of block (minus one layer) from one side of the building to the side we are working on and a guy was washing a BRAND NEW 2005 Ferrari directly next to the skids of block. I asked him to move it and his response was "nah, it'll be ok here" !!!!!WTF:dizzy: !!! On the property there are several ferrari's, one lamborghini countach, a few porsches of varying ages and some classic european cars. kinda scary moving materials around to say the least!!

PurpHaze
11-21-2005, 10:35 PM
WOW!!! Guess if you have that kind of money then a block facial on a windshield or something else aint that bad. :D

Or............ maybe he knows you're an expert with the skid steer. :D

cedarcroft
11-22-2005, 01:07 AM
BTW its a commercial building with two euro car service shops. not a residence

PurpHaze
11-22-2005, 09:13 AM
Must have very good insurance then. :D

UNISCAPER
11-22-2005, 10:52 AM
"I was on the Bobcat bringing a skid of block (minus one layer) from one side of the building to the side we are working on and a guy was washing a BRAND NEW 2005 Ferrari directly next to the skids of block. I asked him to move it and his response was "nah, it'll be ok here" !!!!!WTF !!! On the property there are several ferrari's, one lamborghini countach, a few porsches of varying ages and some classic european cars. kinda scary moving materials around to say the least!!"

Seeing as we live in the boob job and bullshit capital of the US, there is not a day goes by when there is not the view of an exotic car driving or parked. Being an enthusiast and high performace car owner myself, there is one thing that is common and sickens me with 99% of the morons who own exotics. Theyhave no freeken clue as to what they own, muchless how to drive them. They have no respect for value of such cars, and therefore should not even own them. The latest boob job trinket I saw is the new 256 mile per hour Bugati. A must have for everyone who has no freeken clue but has to impress all the guys at the club.

There in fact is so much idiocy with exotic cars around here that a guy I used to race with and his son started a business training exotic car owners how to drive them and use them to their capacity. They are making so much
money that they now do it full time and have bought a new facility in this overpriced sand box we live in.

Sorry to side step, my reply to the car owners response is that I'm not at all surprized on how they treated the situation.

Anyhow, if that inspector did not test the backfill soils you are putting over the grid for hardness, I hope both and the GC you work for have good insurance. Typically the way it works is the inspector tests each 2' lift of soils for hardness, and gives a visual on how you placed rains, wrapped fabric, etc. If the soil is not dense enough, or some other phase is out of place, they stop you from going to the next lift until it's right. So, it sounds like the visual stuff is right. The soil work is of concern. When you mention tamp, what type of compactor are you using to pack the soils? Like I said, soils hardness has me concerned on this one at this point.

cedarcroft
11-28-2005, 05:44 PM
I don't know what he has done for testing the soil. we are using a plate tamper and the material is all bank run so it compacts very tightly. we got shut down by the town today due to confusion w/ the permits. we decided to do one 10' wall (which the plans and permits allowed for) instead of 2, 6' walls. the GC is out of town and his partner didn't know where the paperwork was so the town shut us down until they can produce the right paperwork. otherwise it is going as well as it could under the conditions. its slow going due to the steep angle of teh slope. we have a backhoe with us all day now to scoop sand out of our way as we go. BIG help.

UNISCAPER
11-28-2005, 06:00 PM
I don't know what he has done for testing the soil. we are using a plate tamper and the material is all bank run so it compacts very tightly.

Cedar:

I don't want to sound like a jerk here, but you can't pack bank run and achieve more than 80% density with a tamper plate. You need an jumping style Wacker, or a Vibratory pad foot roller like a Ramex or similar.

Even though the soil appears tight, without being tested, the inspector has no clue as to soil moisture content, which relates to weight and density, nor do they really know what compaction ratio has been achieved. Where this will pose a problem is when the rains hit. Soil typically weighs 110 lbs per cubic foot. The static load on the wall is calculated from the weight of the wall, plus the static weight of the soil it holds, along with any surcharge (driveways, buildings, etc etc) on top of the grade.

When the rains hit, or the snow begins to melt in your area, the soils will saturate much deeper than heavily compacted soils, thus increasing the soils weight, and in some cases, causing it to structurally break down. A condition commonly called "Plasticity" will occur in broken saturated soils. what comes next is the grid can actually pull out as the load behind the wall forces it forward. I don't thinl I need to spell out the rest.

I'm not saying this will occur in your case. however, walls that did not go through the soil test process during compaction are more likely to fail.

Since you changed the plan from 2-6' walls to one 10' wall, you just added more load and global stability requirements to the embedment course(s) A 6' wall would require one full course under ground. A 10' wall would require nearly two courses under ground, unless the load on top requires more. You will also need 7' of grid at bare minimum requirements rather than the 4' a 6' wall will require. And, the bottom two tiers of reienfoced courses will require a minimum of Strata Grid 300, while a 6' wall could get away with a bidirectional strata Grid 150. (lighter weight)

I'm just trying to cover your rear Cedar. When the types of changes you mention are made, that is when it gets a little hairy.

Good luck, keep up the progress reports!

cedarcroft
11-29-2005, 12:28 AM
As stated early on in this thread, I have never done a wall of this caliber, so my knowledge of products etc is limited. I know that we are using at least 6' of grid every 2 courses. I also know we rejected the lighter weight grid that was provided for a heavier weight product that is called Miragrid 5xt. As for the under ground courses, we have a full 2 courses buried and as we step up we are keeping it at that level. I am intersted in what you say about compaction and I will talk to the inspector about the testing. I am not making enough money on this to risk my family and business, not to mention someones life. no amount of money is worth that type of risk. I truly appreciate your technical knowledge Uniscaper and also your input. I will continue to update and eventually post pics.

jreiff
12-11-2005, 12:30 AM
Any updates or pictures
on the project?

cedarcroft
12-11-2005, 10:19 PM
weather and permit issues have slowed us down. we were off for 2 weeks but starting again tomorrow. I have regular film pics, no digital but I will scan them and when I have everything saved to my computer, I will post here. as for the wall, we are through the majority of the tough stuff. after tomorrow, we should be able to finish in 4 more days. the permit issues were a discrepancy on the original drawing. no problem though, the contractor sorted it out.

mrusk
12-11-2005, 11:03 PM
I just realized your building the wall in NY. Thats screwed up man. Its winter time. The ground is frozen. Things don't compact right. It ain't the time to build a wall like this. Do you have heaters going to keep the ground un frozen?

cedarcroft
12-15-2005, 05:47 PM
done.
pics will be coming soon.
no heaters.

South Florida Lawns
12-15-2005, 08:45 PM
Dude the only way that I'm gonna believe that you built this thing is with some pics to prove it. Lets see em!

cedarcroft
12-15-2005, 11:41 PM
hey nice rig. whats your RTI on that thing?

oh yeah...pics to follow. I have regular pics but my friend is gonna take some digitals for me so I can post them w/o having to scan.
is there a FAQ on here to tech how to post pics?

South Florida Lawns
12-16-2005, 08:04 PM
hey nice rig. whats your RTI on that thing?

oh yeah...pics to follow. I have regular pics but my friend is gonna take some digitals for me so I can post them w/o having to scan.
is there a FAQ on here to tech how to post pics?


Thanks, in the pic, not so great cuz thats when it had the Procomp lift. Now it rides on the Rock Krawler 5'' longarm kit and is said to get 1300. It flexes nice now until the springs fall out, still working on that:mad:.

As for pics you need to resize them to 800x800 then save as JPEG. Next on the forum click the manage attachments button at the bottom of the page, click the choose file button, then select your pic and hit the upload button. Close the window after it finished uploading and type info about the pics (I think its a 15 character minumum) then hit post and your done.

cedarcroft
12-17-2005, 07:06 PM
thanks for the info on how to post a pic.
I will post wall pics up here ASAP.
in the meantime, heres a link to some Jeep pics for you SoFlaLawns. I am the guy on the bottom left and the khaki rubicon is (was) mine.

http://ec4wda.org/LIOR/2005trails/mabell0504/lior_trailride_mabell_index.html

South Florida Lawns
12-22-2005, 09:23 PM
I want a Rubi bad. And you actually wheel the thing, cool. I see so many yuppies driving them around and they will never see dirt.

The white jeep has a new Atlas II transfer case and lunch box lockers front and rear. The new long arm lift clears the 35 pro-comp MT's and flexes great. I will posts pics soon in the trucks and trailers forum.

BTW what happened to yours?

mbella
12-22-2005, 11:19 PM
Is this a Jeep thread or a wall building thread? Cedarcroft, please post some wall pics and less pics of you and your Jeep.

I can't believe you figured out how to post pics of you and your jeep and still can't seem to figure out how to post pics of the wall.

South Florida Lawns
12-23-2005, 11:37 PM
Who cares about the wall. Jeeps are more cool looking anyways.

Leave the guy alone he is just having problems posting the pics.

mbella
12-24-2005, 12:11 AM
Who cares about the wall. Jeeps are more cool looking anyways.

Leave the guy alone he is just having problems posting the pics.

We here in the Hardscaping forum might care more about the wall than your Jeeps. It's a hardscaping thing, you wouldn't understand.

Oh yeah, in over a MONTH he hasn't figured it out. I would venture to say that it's easier to post a friggin pic than it is to build this wall.

Believe me, I'm a little slow and I think it took me about two or three minutes to figure out how to post a pic on here.

I see you're good at postin pics, help him.

Dirty Water
12-24-2005, 12:40 AM
Here is a few pictures of the wall:

http://www.noise-to-signal.com/2004/09/phone_00110.jpg
http://students.washington.edu/asg/photos/china04/images/29%20-%20Broken%20Wall.jpg

PurpHaze
12-24-2005, 10:53 AM
That bottom pic might look more like a jeep trail to him though. :rolleyes:

cedarcroft
12-26-2005, 12:54 PM
I can post links to jeep pictures that someone else already loaded up.
as soon as I have digital pictures of the wall(hopefully this week) I will post them up here. we just finished last week. the great wall picture is close though.

cedarcroft
12-30-2005, 03:47 PM
i am trying to post pics. here are some test shots. i should be getting the "great wall" pics today or monday. if this works, I will then post them

ok that worked, F#@#IN SIMPLE!!!
now I will get the digital shots of the wall and post them. the pics here are of a house that we did a total landscape renovation on. tore out evereything and did the driveway, walk, stoop, walls, planting, sod etc. I subbed out the stoop, walk and driveway and did everything else myself. I will start another thread and post some before and afters of that job.

MarcusLndscp
01-02-2006, 06:26 PM
I've been checking this post periodically but have yet to see completed pics of this wall yet. What's the story here Cedarcroft?

KCLandscape
01-02-2006, 06:38 PM
Me too. SHOW US THE WALL!!

cedarcroft
01-03-2006, 09:54 AM
I am still waiting for my friend to e mail me the pics. I took some regular pics, but I don't think my wife developed them yet. and they were mostly before shots anyway. sorry for the wait, I assure you they will be up the second i get them sent to me, now that I know how to post them!!

ChrisCoope
01-03-2006, 11:48 AM
I was reading this post in Landscape Construction and thought I might introduce you to an alternative product, have a look at www.timbergrid.com

BigEd
01-04-2006, 07:54 PM
ttt

Lets see te pics

Dirty Water
01-04-2006, 10:07 PM
I was reading this post in Landscape Construction and thought I might introduce you to an alternative product, have a look at www.timbergrid.com

Those are kinda ugly.

Green-Pro
01-04-2006, 10:44 PM
Those are kinda ugly.

Not my cup of tea either I love stone :)

PurpHaze
01-05-2006, 09:41 AM
As a slope/soil stabilization unit blended in they don't look too bad especially when the plants take hold. However, as a freestanding unit I don't think they look as good.

Squizzy246B
01-05-2006, 10:51 AM
Timber Grid - For the US market only

Lol...my limestone business is safe:cool:

bigviclbi
01-05-2006, 11:31 AM
I actually kind of like the look of the timbergrid, the planting opportunity it provides looks like it softens up the wall alot. Kind of looks a little Far Eastern as well. Don't touch walls that big so I'll never use it.

UNISCAPER
01-05-2006, 03:49 PM
It looks very similar to what we call "Cribbing", which was use along many freeway applications.

PurpHaze
01-05-2006, 10:08 PM
Exactly what I was thinking.

PurpHaze
01-05-2006, 10:09 PM
Timber Grid - For the US market only

Lol...my limestone business is safe:cool:

I hear they're developing plastic blocks that resemble your yellowish limestone blocks. And any kindergartner can put them together. :p

Jason Rose
01-05-2006, 11:27 PM
I was reading this post in Landscape Construction and thought I might introduce you to an alternative product, have a look at www.timbergrid.com

"guranteed for 50 years" Well that's a nice long time, but what happens when it rots and fails??? What ever happened to construction that lasts (hopefully) forever?

I'm looking forward to seeing the pics of the finished wall as well. I have been following this for a while, not that I do walls... but because I'm just nosy I guess. lol!

PurpHaze
01-06-2006, 09:14 AM
I have been following this for a while, not that I do walls... but because I'm just nosy I guess. lol!

LOL... That's just the nature of most of us in this business. Being able to admire someone else's handiwork is one of the perks I guess. :drinkup:

Squizzy246B
01-06-2006, 09:16 AM
I hear they're developing plastic blocks that resemble your yellowish limestone blocks. And any kindergartner can put them together. :p

Goodo...my kids can teach me how to do it then!:) ..hang on, why bother...I can just get the kids to build walls then.:rolleyes:

PurpHaze
01-06-2006, 09:23 AM
If you do then the next pic we'll see is you behind bars at some ancient Aussie prison made of yellow limestone blocks for breaking child labor laws and enslaving those kids. :p

Squizzy246B
01-06-2006, 09:33 AM
If you do then the next pic we'll see is you behind bars at some ancient Aussie prison made of yellow limestone blocks for breaking child labor laws and enslaving those kids. :p

Hayes...will ya bake me a cake and mail it...just don't forget to put my masons axe inside it.....JAILBREAK!.....JAILHOUSE ROCKS???:blush:

PurpHaze
01-06-2006, 09:39 AM
I'd probably be arrested by Homeland Security as that might be construed as a terrorist weapon of mass destruction. :waving:

Squizzy246B
01-06-2006, 09:43 AM
I'd probably be arrested by Homeland Security as that might be construed as a terrorist weapon of mass destruction. :waving:

Only where the 246B and sprinklers are concerned.:gunsfirin ..thats called urban terrorism of irragations dudes.:rolleyes: :) :) :)

UNISCAPER
01-06-2006, 09:44 AM
Cribbing relies on an 18° to 33° batter and soil compaction in the space immediately around the products. It also uses quite a bit more buildable space than most SRW walls, because of that batter. Say you have a 15' rise in eelvation with an 18° batter. You loose 10' by the time you reach final elevation. 10' of land in this overpriced sandbox is the difference between getting a building permit, or being rejected because you don't meet the building setback requirements.

I'm not saying that type of wall does not have it's place. But with land becoming harder and harder to afford, Cribbing and wall systems like it are becomming harder to sell.

ChrisCoope
01-06-2006, 06:12 PM
Cribbing relies on an 18° to 33° batter and soil compaction in the space immediately around the products. It also uses quite a bit more buildable space than most SRW walls, because of that batter. Say you have a 15' rise in eelvation with an 18° batter. You loose 10' by the time you reach final elevation. 10' of land in this overpriced sandbox is the difference between getting a building permit, or being rejected because you don't meet the building setback requirements.

I'm not saying that type of wall does not have it's place. But with land becoming harder and harder to afford, Cribbing and wall systems like it are becomming harder to sell.

Hi Bill,
I can see that being an issue in some situations, however the usual batter is only 14 degrees, and the advantage of not ecavating out half the bank and then having to put it back, helps with construction , costs and stabilisation, which I can see may be a problem , with all those landslides, I would think each wall has its place.
By the way they are great for forming roof gardens..

G.M.Landscaping
01-09-2006, 03:03 PM
Ever take any pics yet?

MarcusLndscp
01-13-2006, 04:28 PM
I give up I give up

KCLandscape
01-13-2006, 08:23 PM
maybe his dog ate the pictures?

PurpHaze
01-13-2006, 09:52 PM
...maybe his WIFE ate the pictures? :confused:

KCLandscape
01-13-2006, 10:51 PM
I bet the camera ate the pics...
Or the dingo...

Squizzy246B
01-14-2006, 01:18 AM
I bet the camera ate the pics...
Or the dingo...

The Dingo is innocent!!:rolleyes:

wurkn with amish
03-19-2007, 03:02 PM
Can someone go to the fricken job site and take pictures???????????
I can't believe I just wasted this much time reading to see an invisible wall!

dchauling
03-19-2007, 03:35 PM
Same here, read all of this and no Pics for 3 Months now. Maybe the wall fell already. JK

Drew Gemma
03-19-2007, 03:45 PM
ban this clown from lawnsite I just read all these crappy post to find out he never posted pics. BS!

cedarcroft
03-19-2007, 06:26 PM
I posted pics. in a different thread. I will find it and link to here. ....or you can ban me.:rolleyes:

here you go Marcus Aurelius
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=130918&highlight=cedarcroft

dchauling
03-19-2007, 09:44 PM
Thanks for the link

wurkn with amish
03-20-2007, 01:23 PM
yes thanks for the link