View Full Version : PAVER PEOPLE PLEASE RESPOND
03-27-2001, 09:19 PM
There sems to be some varying opinions as to proper paver installation practices...my questions are as follows:
1)base, what do you use?
2)fabric, when and why...I was trained to use it only when the subsoil is clay..???
3)bedding layer...masonary sand?? thats what I use...
4)preffered plate compactor...one way or reversible what manufacturer??
5)installed price per sq. ft....I know these will vary from job to job but please guesstimate...
6)average base depth...walkway? I go 4"- 6"
driveway?.I haven't done one yet
7)preferred paver restraints??
8)bricksaw?? any fairly good electric models, I currently use a demo saw or guiotine(spelling??) to make all cuts...
Thanks to all that respond, if the calls I have gotten for estimates are any indication this year I will see a large increase in the volume of paver work I do ....lets all hope for a good year despite the stock market...
03-27-2001, 10:45 PM
1), 2), 3) - see: http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?threadid=3053
4) - Depends on the project - the reversible kind are of the larger variety, we use those for larger projects (larger = driveways). We have a Bomag (one way) that we really like. The important thing: a Honda engine.
5) - Varies too much to even guesstimate. Last year we did one project for $6/sqft, one for $17/sqft.
6) American Association of State Highway Transportation Officials says that for any flexible pavement in my neck of the woods, a min of 4" base. We use 6-7" for our typical patio/walk.
7) Dimex makes a good one, we started using Curv-Rite last year - it's aluminum. Low profile, very strong, very flexible. It's all we'll use this year.
8) Stay away from electric brick saws. Get gas. See: http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?threadid=2943
03-27-2001, 11:26 PM
Base-we use 3/4 stone down to dust.
Fabric-we use it for every job(we are in heavy clay-Ohio)
bedding sand-concrete sand because it is angular Not the same as mason sand
Compactor-wacker with 5.5 honda for base and on top of pavers. Vibra-max plate rammer for the sub-soil
Price per SF- varies $7.00 and up
base-sidewalk and flat patios 4"-6". driveways 8"-10"
edge restraint-plastic called snap-edge currently used, however, we will try edgepro, also plastic(way less expensive)
Saws-stihl 400 14" EDCO 14" with honda 5.5 hp for wet (electric I'd stay away from) I heard the following story about an electric saw........................................
First day the crew went to cut: the homeowner only had one outside outlet and, it was on a switch, which was inside and off. Of course, no one was home. Tonight they would call and make sure the switch was left on. Next morning they plug 'er in and it draws to much juice and tripps the breaker-buy a gas saw, more power and less headaches.
03-28-2001, 12:09 PM
Base - QP(5A)
sand - used stone dust in past, swithcing to washed concrete sand now (As a certified belgard installer this is what they want you to use)
Fabric - depends on site conditions/as needed or if the customer wants to pay for it
Compactor - Sakia 5.5 HP plate for most jobs, or rent a smaller roller for larger patios/drives etc.
price - $8 - 16, going rate is around 10 per sq foot if job is under 300 sq ft, but will start to dicount after that amount. Dependent on too many factors as stonehenge mentioned before.
Base - 6" for walks/patio, 10-12 for drives
Edge restraint - seems to change every job as supplier tends to change brands more than his underware. Dimex is nice stuff though, however it does not connect at ends so a little bit of a pain for curves
Saws - Partner K950 chop saw, up to 16" blade (can get great deals on diamond blades on ebay....been paying around 45-60 for 12 and 14" blades and they are lasting just as long/longer as the ones I've bought for 150+) 12" inch blades are nice for most work, but 14's and 16's are real handy when doing wall work.
Wet saws - Ok, I will go against the crowd and say this. I have a 10" target electric and am pleased with it. I paid around 900 for it, after pricing out the cheapest honda gas powered one for around 1500-1600. I've been able to do a majority of cuts with the cut-off, so the wet saw doesn't get used as much as it use too, which makes the electric a good choice for me. No doubt gas is better, but electric will get the job done and is a lot cheaper for intial start up. (by the way, the story before is why I always try to get key to the house or make sure the homeowner is home for days of cutting - they do blow fuses pretty easily) If money is tight, I would go with a electric, because it will make enough money for you to buy the gas one later on if needed.
03-28-2001, 07:26 PM
We use Ont MTC Granular A (3/4 to fines sand based gravel) for base material. The norm around here used to be 3/4 crush limestone, but it has been found to dissolve causing ruts and sink holes. We use 6" - 8" for pedestrian areas and 12" for light vehicular traffic. We compact in 3" - 4" lifts, using a vibrating plate compactor, watering helps the compaction. Our tamper is an Ingersoll-Rand with a 5hp Honda.
Coarse concrete sand screeded 1/2 to 3/4" thick is used for the setting bed. We give the sand a light tamp before final screed.
We only lay fabric when the ground conditions are wet to keep the subsoils from rising up through the base during compaction.
Next, we lay the pavers and cut them in place with a Stihl quick cut and a 14" diamond blade in the straight spots and a 12" in the curves. (I hope somebody comes up with a portable laser for cutting SOON.) After the waste is removed a small amount of hand troweling to smooth out the setting bed is necessary. Then comes the plastic edge restraints. We lay them before the soldier border so the lip sits under the pavers.
Once the borders are in, two passes with the plate tamper, spread sand, let dry, two more passes with the tamper and a few licks with the brooms.
Anybody tried the plasticised joint sand yet? I saw some at a show over the winter, it really seemed to bond together and to the pavers. Could be another great add-on.
03-28-2001, 08:37 PM
We use the polymeric sand once in a while. It works well.
A few tips: Have to use this sand 100%. By this, I mean you can not use 3/4 regular sweep sand and 1/4 polymeric sand. It is really all or nothing. It is very pricey and a pain to put down(pavers must be dry and no forcast of rain for 24 hours)
03-28-2001, 09:12 PM
We have used a 10" target saw since 1987 (used a guillitine before that) but with new tumbled pavers a guillitine works better and is faster.The gas saws arfe a noisy heavy PITA. We use polymeric sand ONLY as it keeps weeds out better, doesn't wash away easily and cuts down on callbacks. It only costs $10/hundred square feet of brick(standard 4x8 shape) it has to be wet after sweeping in so rain afterwards is GOOD.This sort of extra care allows us to charge extra, from $10-$14/square foot depending on size and site conditions.
Base material is CA-6 a crushed limestone 3/4"-
Compaction I use a Skid steer mounted roller and am switching to a skid steer mounted plate this summer.
Saws Partner 650 Active 12" for most cutting, 14" EDCO with a 9 hp Honda, with cart. Check out Pavetechs cart I think they are the best. Next saw will be a 20" saw.
Fabric, depends on location and soils most times we don't need it but ..........
Base depth, again location and soils play a part, we did work along a river and use 3' of base.
Prices $4.50 to $20 depends on the job
Edgeing Pavetech Pave Edge.
Sand washed concrete sand.
03-29-2001, 03:55 PM
I think the average rate is about $8 per foot. Check out turf mag they had an article about market price this month.
I havn't done any in couple of years but I was charging $10 per foot
Crushed stone,fabric, masonry sand, plastic paver edging, rented tamper, my best friend, the mason who can break a paver better than I can cut them.
03-29-2001, 09:49 PM
?!?!I'd like to see that?!?! Hope you weren't using house bricks for paving.
03-28-2007, 11:13 PM
This is an old thread here. I am searching threads before I post my question. No luck so far.
I have read that concrete restraints are bad for pavers. Is this just when it is slapped against the brick to hold it in place??
Is the best thing to hold a driveway together a 8 - 10" concrete curb or snap-edge?
Please help me on this one
04-01-2007, 04:23 PM
Base really varies by region. We only use polymer sand ,works great for us. Use high polymer for natural stone walks and patios. Not really happy with any restraints we've used yet. Probably best to place the nails or spikes to the inside. We get 13 a sq ft min. Just won a bid for 19 on a 3000 sq ft job with freestanding walls all around. Nice 85,000 job in a little town of 400 people. We use a 14" electric and a 14" Stihl hot saw. Thinking of a big gas table saw this year.
04-01-2007, 11:08 PM
Take a look at ICPI website. They are the industry standard for hardscapes.
1) Base It has several names. Here it is CR6 crusher run. ICPI calls it a 2A modifided. It is 3/4" stone with fines. Meaning everything is in it from 3/4" to dust.
2) Fabric- Geotextile fabric. This is not "weedblock". It is used to seperate the base from the subgrade so that the base will not settle into the subgrade. It is insurance to use of every job.
3)Bedding Layer- Supposed to be concrete sand.
4) and 5) Whatever works for you. Sorry to be so blunt.
6) Base depth Walkway 6" Patio 8" Driveway (havent done any) would be 12-15"
7) Edge restraint I like snap edge but my supplier doesnt sell it anymore they now sell BEAST.
8)Saw- We have electric but have the problem on a job now where there is not electric near the work site. Had to borrow a generator.
Check out ICPI. They are really good for information.
04-02-2007, 12:17 AM
Have you thought bout having concrete pad poured first? I have done this on several occassions with great results. Your paver supplier should have special
04-02-2007, 12:36 AM
sorry about that- have you thought about having a concrete pad poured first? if you consider this- your paver supplier should carry special polyethylene adhesives to bond concrete to concrete. I once did a beautiful paver job in a basketweave pattern with a concrete base for a guy who i thought was a friend. When I gave him my bill- he said " I thought you did this out of Christian charity..." what a user. Any how- with concrete no need to compact or use fabric. Also have had great luck using wet saws to cut pavers- just watch those fingers with the wet saw!
04-02-2007, 09:14 AM
We cut in place all our pavers it shaves hours off the job and can get you a better look.
04-02-2007, 09:50 PM
I just started walkways last year and I was charging $10/ft and I thought that was rock bottom? I talked to other companies about pricing and they said I should get every bid at those prices! I guess that was kind of my plan?
Remember there are a lot of people who think they know what their talking about and will give bad advise. The sure way is to listen to what the mfg. says. I will say that all the advise I've read so far in this thread sounds acurate. Old school guys will say they use lime stone or stone dust, I used it after hearing so many people recommend it, but doing it the right way is actually much easier in the end.
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