Lawn rolling

[BufalinoLand]

Can anyone tell me if rolling lawns really works, I got so many calls last year for it, that I put rolling in my spring letter and youd think I was giving away free gold, everyone wants it done. Is there any downside thanks

[Evan528]

The downside is that it causes compaction. What is the upside?

[Red_Rattler]

smooth yard, some dead grass, pros and cons, easier to mow, reseed some of it

[65hoss]

I do it for smoothing out purposes. BUT, I do tell them that once its done it needs to be aerated. Then guess who aerates? :D

[HOMER]

We prefer to use Charmins when we roll, better quality and more hang time!

That's something I never see anybody do down here, not even when they intall sod on a new yard! I have a few that I think need it, how much can you get out of them to do this and how much weight is in the roller?

[nysnowman]

I always thought it was something only done up here.The frost over the winter pushs up the sod.Rolling helps flatten it back out.Its great money.I charge $40-$45 per lawn.The best days to roll are saturday and sunday.I get on street to do one and end up doing at least 3 more next door. So try to do all your tract homes on the weekends.

[Matt]

Seems as though more peaple need to educate their customers. We have peaple that ask us to roll their lawn and we tell them that we don't participate in damaging practices. We explain to them the affect of rolling and the fact that it is detrimental to a healthy lawn. We then explain to them the benefits of aeration, thatching, mulching, soil tests and all the other beneficial practices. I try to educate the customer, we as the professinal lawn care operators need to practice this more. The customer called us for our education and experience in the green industry.

[MWHC]

Thanks Matt, I thought I was the only one that condemned rolling. When I see people doing it I want to give them a business card so I can fix the problems it causes.

[GroundKprs]

Matt is right for northern areas, for sure!

[AB Lawn Care]

We have the best of both worlds.We will not roll a clients lawn,and tell they why.But at the same time we will gladly roll a lawn of a non-client.Its good money.....and even better money when you got a free roller :)

[jeffyr]

I know a guy who is in the paving biz---he was bragging to me on how he is making side money flattening lawns with his roller---I don't know anything about that equipment but he used a ride on steamroller type. I asked him about soil compaction and he looked confused. All he knew is that the people were happy with the smooth lawn.

[nysnowman]

Ive rolled hundreds of lawns.I have yet to get a call back from a customer saying I damaged their lawn.I drive by them during the summer and their lawns look healthy to me.The customer just wants a smooth lawn.If you dont want to do it thats great,becauase then they call me.Ill be happy to take their money.

[BufalinoLand]

Mr. Nysnowman, thats what I like to hear, If I dont do it someone else is coming into my back yard and stealing right from me. I roll their flower beds, if they are paying. I dont look gift horese in the mouth either, thanks for the input

[BufalinoLand]

For those of you who do roll, how much money to get for it??

[grade]

WHY IN THE WORLD ARE YOU GUYS ROLLING LAWNS WITH A MACHINE ROLLER i HOPE YOU GUYS MEAN THE SUB SOIL THEN SPREAD TOP SOIL SEED OR SOD

[BufalinoLand]

I roll lawns with a 18"x 36" pull behind water filled roller, weighs in at around 400lbs. My phone is ringing off the hook since I included it in my spring letter, like I said, " If they want me to roll the flower beds and theyre paying, ill do it!!"

[Evan528]

Buffalinoland, Its your job as the professional to educate the customer. The customer is not always right! What does that say about your company if you willingly perform detrimental services to your customers property? Word gets around!

[kermit]

Damn the torpedoes! Roll the lawn to concrete. I thought only the lawn chemical guys were unethical? Guess scrubs will do anything for a buck, kind of like prostitutes.

[nysnowman]

I took my buisness over from my father who was in it for 20 years.He always said,if a customer wants something done ,you dont ask them why,just do the job.Becuase if you dont want to do it ,they'll find somebody else.Im not going to perform a service if I think its going to cause damage to someones property,thats just more headaches to deal with,Ive got enough headaches dealing with guys like kermit.Ive never seen any evidence that rolling is damaging to the grass,so as long as people keep calling me to do it, I'm going to keep doing it.Its tough to turn away $6-$8000 dollars before I even think about starting up a my mower.I'm out!

[cantoo]

Lots of lawn rolling done here too. I'm looking for a 1/2 ton 5' wide machine to use when it's drier. We do it for frost damage, course we're just farmers so we don't know what we're doing.

[AllSeasonsAllReasons]

I Have had a ton of calls for this service!!! So my ? is what do you guy's charge for say 1000 msf?

[65hoss]

Hey Kermit, prostitute this!! :mad:

Maybe something that you can't do up north or don't understand seems like a problem to you. A 400 lb roller spread out over 36" is less than your walkbehind in 4 concentrated spots. It does far less compacting and damage than you do putting your wb on the property. For that matter, a 200 lb man's weight on 1 foot is probably close to the same. When someone calls about rolling it usually is because they cut their own grass and the uneven terrain bounces them real bad on their mower. Nobody is talking about packing it into concrete. We are talking about smoothing out troubled areas. I can also tell you, due to weight distribution, even rolling sometimes doesn't change a thing. Like I said, I don't know anything about the north, but unless it is very wet around here, it doesn't effect anything.

[Guido]

How could this turn into an arguement????

People that do this service should not be called prostitutes or scrubs, etc. Its a perfectly normal practice.

Show me one refrence where it says a lawn will be ruined after rolling it.

Now, your right, it will get compacted, thats why you offer aeration. If it smooths out the yard in the spring and thats what the customer wants, than thats what a FULL SERVICE company would do, and then aerate of course.

So, unless you just Mow Lawns, I don't see a problem with it at all.

I lived in CT and use to get a lot of ruts where people walked through the grass in the snow and when it was muddy, etc. I used to use a 1/2 ton roller to roll, and then go back and aerate the lawn. I always had the best lawn on the block for as long as we had the house, never ever had a problem caused by rolling!!



KEEP ON ROLLIN' BOYS!!

[geogunn]

we don't roll (lawns) down here. and if we did you could drive a semi truck on the lawn because our soils are predominantly clay.

in the north I believe soils are more silty as a result of being glacial in origin. much less compactable. that and the frost heaving makes a difference.

soil origin does matter.

GEO

[lakegastonla]

Some people will fire off a response to a topic without fully knowing what's going on. It's like a knee-jerk reaction. They just can't help themselves!! We don't roll any lawns here ,(However I do have a couple I'd like to try)
but I know it is an ACCEPTED PRACTICE in the northern states. A 400lb roller is not putting a lot of weight per square inch when it is spread over 36-to-48 inches. You do more damage by just WALKING across the lawn than by rolling!
Think about it real close for a minute........it'll come to ya! :)

[HOMER]

A soft lawn will probably get more compacted by your tires than a roller! I agree, down south it would be tough to do this because of the red clay we have for a base, now that would turn to concrete hardness real fast!

[GroundKprs]

"Rolling is not considered a necessary turf maintenance practice. Heavy rolling of saturated or clay soils in spring will cause soil compaction and increase soil moisture stress the following summer. This is why rolling is generally not recommended by turf specialists. However, rollers do have some usefulness in turf. Light rolling is effective immediately following seeding to insure good seed-soil contact. Rolling can also insure good sod-soil contact after sodding. Rolling may also help in other isolated occurrences such as severe mole damage or frost heaving. Rolling should never be used to correct surface undulations caused by improper grading. Water-filled rollers are usually available from rental agencies."

-from http://www.agry.purdue.edu/turf/pubs/ay8.htm

Lawn rolling can be used as a cosmetic and/or functional repair of frost heaved soil. Also used in seeding & sodding as indiacted above. As all specialty services, this is a site specific and time dependant procedure. Not all sites will need rolling - in our area it is almost never useful - and if not done in right time and conditions it can be useless and even detrimental to turf.

Perhaps in some areas of the world, most lawns would benefit from rolling in early spring; in other areas it is always pointless. To argue that, across the board, rolling is or is not a useful service is rather small-minded.

[Toad]

Yes to the lawn rolling . It greatly improves on the lawns up here in NY . I use a 1000 lb roller. Goes right along with spring cleanup. Moles create alot of problems up here, and piles of dirt need to be compacted, &so do ruts from plowing, ect. My question to you guy's is ,I use to use my John deere 4100 tractor for this , but sold it and just this winter went to the z mowers. Has anyone used these machines to pull rollers, or am I gona burn up the hydro pumps on them.

[MOW ED]

GroundsKprs info is right on and concurs with the book Turfgrass Management by Alfred Turgeon.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0136283489/o/qid=986080445/sr=8-2/ref=aps_sr_b_1_2/104-9264647-6694318

Lots of good info in this book and lots of stuff that is extremely technical. Rolling is done in spot areas from heaving but it states that the freeze thaw cycle is good for the lawn as it breaks up some of the subsurface compaction by nature of the process. The book states that heavy lawn rolling is not advised as it damages and compacts the root system of growing lawns. I'd assume mostly in the spring. I personally don't roll but know guys that do and I have some people ask me to do it.
There is a window to roll our heavy clay soil here and I cant plan around ground moisture levels so I don't do it.

Cool season lawns can take lots of abuse before big problems set in. I like coming around to help solve the problems.
Good Luck

[kermit]

Groundkprs is right on the money. Lawn rolling is NOT proper horticultural practice but if you must roll then you absolutely must aerate.

[lee b]

I'd go buy a roller today, if I knew it would make money. A 400lb. roller 36" wide will not compact the soil nearly as much as a 1000lb. mower. Those who think it will obviously know little about the basics of soil compaction and what causes it. That roller isn't going to exert the pressure that a 200lb. man will walking across the lawn. A Catipillar tractor on rubber tracks puts less pressure {about 6lbs. per sq. inch} on the ground than a normal man {about 7lbs. per sq. inch}, and the tractor weighs 50,000lbs. It all depends on the surface area that the weight is distributed across, along with soil conditions. Are all of you, who say not to do it, gonna quit using your mowers or even walking on the grass? Because if you don't most of the time your hurting the lawn more than a roller.

[steveair]

Hello,

I've never understood the purpose of rolling a already established yard. Unless you are bringing in a big, heavy machine, I can't imagine a 400lb roller effectively doing much of anything.

In most cases I know off, a yard with uneven spots can be smoothed out by simply walking around, finding the lows and highs, and raking out by hand. If spots are bad, then topsoil or tilling may be needed to solve the problem.

If a roller does 'even' out a lawn, then the lawn is obviously soft. If the lawn remains soft, then what is to stop it from becoming rutted up and 'uneven' the first week you mow it after you rolled it? Its like raking topsoil out, if you rake it smooth and then walk on, you will leave footprints again.

With the studies today, everyone is against soil compaction. Rolling a lawn does nothing than this, compact the soil.

If the spots that are uneven can be rolled out with a 400lb pull behind, then in all liklihood, a few weeks of mowing with a heavier machine such as a tractor or rider will produce the same effect.

On another note, I will say that the benefits of rolling a newly seeded lawn can be signifigant. I remember doing a new lawn installation a few years ago where the client had a son who insisted on riding his bike through our newly seeded lawn. Dam if the grass didn't grow in all of those tire tracks first before anywhere else. Soil to seed contact is very important, and by rolling a newly seeded area, I feel seed germination is greatly improved.

As for mention of 'big rollers' being used, I'll say this on a side note. I remember hearing storis of a a contractor in my area who installed lawns this way:

1. bulldoze soil to grade.
2. throw some seed out there
3. run vibratory roller over area.
4 throw straw over area.

I'm not kidding about how he did this. The best part was, that if the area had rocks sticking out after he roller, all he would do is go back and push the 'vibrate button' on the roller and sit there until the machine pushed the rocks into the ground. The funny thing is, 2 weeks later you would drive by, and there it would be, a decent lawn coming in.

Roller causing compaction is kind of a funny situation. If you look at all the guys installing lawns these days, you have to question if it really does make a difference. With power rakes/harley rakes, think about all the compaction going on there. Here you are, driving a tractor and rake all over the ground, and then putting seed on top of it. Sure the rake softens up the top !" layer, but the tractor driving all over the lawn has to be compacting something. Yet, I see a lot of lawns out there that were done with noting but a harley and they look good.

Its one of those '6 one way, half a dozen the other' situations if you ask me.

steveair




[Edited by steveair on 03-31-2001 at 10:54 PM]

[GroundKprs]

If the roller is not going to hurt the lawn as much as my footsteps, which statement I completely agree with, then how is the rolling to benefit anything except the roller operator's pocketbook?

The supposed reason for rolling is to smooth the lawn, but it is agreed that the roller makes less compression than walking on the lawn. Then what is gained by rolling?