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jeffyr
04-01-2001, 12:59 PM
Hello all,

I have a new customers lawn that I just thatched the heck out of and seeded. There was alot of crabgrass last year which left alot of bear areas, so I had to do it. I am going to apply Tupersan but am worried about the short risidule. Can I follow up with TEAM after the new seed is established, or should I follow with another application of Tupersan ?

Thanks for your input.

jeffyr

Evan528
04-01-2001, 07:35 PM
Wait till the new seed comes up then use dimension. Dimension can be applied a little last and still work because it also acts as a post emergent for crabbgrass stil in the first stage. Tupersan is very expensive!!!

GroundKprs
04-01-2001, 10:14 PM
From Dimension label:
"Turfgrass Safety
This product may be used on seeded, sodded, or sprigged lawns and ornamental turfs that are well-established. The grass must have developed a good root system and a uniform stand, and have received at least two mowings following its seeding, sodding, or sprigging before it can receive its first application of this product.
Use of this product on turf that is not well-established, or has been weakened by weather, pest, disease, chemical, mechanical or other related stress, may result in turf injury."

Almost all preemergents except Tupersan will stress new grass roots. Apply first Tupersan application when crabgrass is ready to germinate (when lilac blooms are fading), and use judgement 30 days later on second application.

And if you have a choice, always seed cool season grasses in the fall, so they have a full life cycle to establish before summer stress.

jeffyr
04-02-2001, 08:10 AM
Jim,

I wanted to do this one in the fall, but they didn't go for it. I knew this would be the problem I would face. I already have enough Tupersan from last year for 1 application. I didn't want to have to buy more though and would rather use the TEAM, since that is what I have been using on established lawns.

jeffyr

GroundKprs
04-02-2001, 10:21 AM
Jeffyr, check the pics on My previous post (http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?postid=93614#post93614) to see what Team will do to new grass roots. These are crabgrass plants, but most pre-ems have the same effecton all grasses, including desireable plants on site.

I will not use anything but siduron (one trade name is Tupersan) on a new seeding for 1-1/2 years. Yes, I use it on a lawn seeded last fall; the extra expense was included in the seeding job. I have not yet tried Drive to see if it has the same root stubbing effect as other pre-ems.

jeffyr
04-02-2001, 12:00 PM
Jim,

Your thread was very good. You did a great control test .
jeffyr

Skookum
04-03-2001, 03:55 AM
I have an account that has continued to have crabgrass after applications of pre-ems. Two years in a row we did two applications with same results of crabgrass coming up in exactly the same places as the year before. I over seeded one spring and used two apps of Tupersan with exact same results later in the year, crabgrass!

I now do not use a pre-em in my spring apps on this account. I just apply fert then later in late spring early summer, I apply a round of Trimec Plus in those areas where I have had crabgrass in the past. Last year was first year we had no crabgrass on this account!

After reading Jim's previous post on the other thread, It seems that my method on this account was some what the better way to go since I have noticed the turf becoming so much healthier since we quit apply the pre-ems on this account.

[Edited by Skookum on 04-03-2001 at 03:06 AM]

lawnboy82
04-04-2001, 12:42 AM
ok- here is what cornell is saying. they say that you should use tupersan for new seedings. however if you have 1 - 2 inches of growth you can use something called pendimethalin. or something like that. trade name is Pre-M Halts or Weedgrass Control that is the trade name 65DG is the formulation. just something to think about. or slam the customer for another round of tupersan.

David Gretzmier
04-04-2001, 12:46 AM
You will get longer control out of barricade in the fall and spring. I have never had any crabgrass problems using it at 1 lb per acre in september and 3/4 lb in feb. at $40/lb it aint cheap, but pre-m is for sissies. it lasts MAYBE 6 weeks, and is very,very,very,very,yellow. Baricade is yellow, but does not stain like pre-m. Pre-m's saving grace- it is cheaper. Dave g

morturf
04-04-2001, 11:53 PM
Hey Guys,

I guess I am a sissie!! Up north, our season is short enough that 6 weeks is enough with one application.


Use Pre-m quite often and like the results. Yes it is yellow and yes it is cheaper. But results do speak. Pendo has a place, and when used carefully it is not as bad as some make it out to be.

I also use a lot of dimension also. I think this has gotten off the subject of the original but what the heck, Anymore sissies out here?

David Gretzmier
04-05-2001, 01:42 AM
morturf- if pre-m is applied at the right time and temperature, it has results. I enjoy the freedom of putting out barricade in Feb and september and having zero weeds w/ no worries or rush when the forsythias yellow. Dave

morturf
04-05-2001, 04:33 AM
david...don't get me wrong...it is apr. 4 and the soil temp here is 38. That was my point, down south you have to have the residual. Pendo has an advantage if you are going to reseed in the fall. I have found that Barricade/Dimension has a detrimental effect on germination rates (this is after slit seeding) in the fall due to its residual. In my part of the country, I like pendo for the way it works for me. But then again, I never do 2 yards alike any.

David Gretzmier
04-07-2001, 03:21 AM
I have overseeded fescue in the fall w/ a spring ( feb-mar) app of barricade w/ good results. I put out 3/4 to 1 lb per acre, and it goes about 6 months on the high end. Dave g