Dollar signs In my eyes

[muddstopper]

They say opportunity only knocks once, if you think about it to long before you open the door, you will miss it.

I have been trying to convince myself for the last couple of years to get in the Lawn Maintenance business. I have posted this before so i know it sounds like a broken record. Last week I was asked to bid a hydro seeding job on a new development that is going up real close to my home. I talked to the developers and discussed the what, when's, and so-forths. I was informed that the acreage being developed was 359 acres. They are planning a gated community and $2 million dollar houses. A couple of years ago I would have thought hogwash, but with the developments and pricing I have seen lately, I dont know, might be possible. The group that owns the property spent big money buying it and are spending big money cleaning it up. I dont know if I got the seeding job yet, but the potential for even more money just seems to be slapping me in the face. If people have the money to build $2 mil houses, they have the money to pay a Lco to maintain it. I already have the turf and ornament license, even tho i dont sell the service. I already do lawn installs even tho I am more geared to the commercial seeding. I dont have the right equipment for chemical apps or commercial mowing but it ain't like I cant have it by next week if I wanted it.

Now my questions.

1. If you see this as a good opportunity to start a lawn service, what steps would you take to insure that you where ready when the houses are actually built and the owners have moved in. Note the actual building hasn't started yet, just underbrushing, clearing, and building roads.

2. What other opportunities do you see that might be profitable to someone with the ambition and means to make it happen. I am just talking about maintenance and installations, not trying to build, buy or resell houses.

3. Besides a mower, trimmer, and blower, what other equipment do you see as a "must have" to properly care for a development of this type.
I already have trucks (3) and trailers (2-16 footers, 1-6x10 dump) and a Ventrac 4200 diesel with 60in mowing deck, as well as other attachments. The Ventrac is a good mower but probably not the best choice for this situation. (read as slow) Make a great backup machine tho.

4. Any other questions I should be asking.

5.I already carry Insurance and we are a Chapter S corp so yes, we do pay taxes, but would Lawn care require a different type of Liability Insurance, I can ask my agent this, but I figured I would get a faster answer here.

[olderthandirt]

Exclusive contract with the builder for mutiple yrs for the maintenence work, if not the builder then the HOA of the gated community.
+ I'd want the install prior to taking on the maintenence

[muddstopper]

Thanks Mac, I havent gotten the first phase yet, but feel good about my chances. My competition isnt all that great. I keep getting new competitors but they dont seem to last long. the mowing might be another story. You know the "everybody with a pickup truck and a rider is a Lco" . The chemical side of the equation might give me an edge, aint but 4 licensed applicators in my county, My wife and I hold two of those. Of course those Pu truck/rider mower drivers are doing it without a license.

I am not sure who the builder will be just yet, the owners are lawyers and doctors and such. I suspect that there will be individual builders for each home, with maybe one builder building several. You can bet when dirt is moved I am going to be Johnny on the spot. Heck, I can just about see it from my front porch.

[sildoc]

Builders are Builders. Either they 1. will do it all or 2. they will sub it out.
If one builder does it all, Which they wont in a subdivision like that, get on them like a fly on you know what. Other wise the first in is usually the man to make money. Price your first at a small profit and then start tacking it on.
As for the Maintenance the same first in is golden. do a good job and you will have the whole neighborhood.
The Idea that the HOA will bid out the entire maintenance for the hood is ridiculous. People with that much money want different choices. Most will take the norm but others want the exquisite.

[sheshovel]

Well for one thing I would definately contact the contractor who is going to do the building and get your face in front of his,your card in his hand and let him know you would like to bid the installs,once the houses are built,also mention that you might be willing to do the clean-up after the construction as part of the deal is he provides the debri containers.
Ask what his projected time frame is on the construction and when they will be breaking ground.
Also show up on the site once in awhile and keep good contact without bugging him.
Then I would do the same with the buyers of the property or the corp buying it and talk about what a sweet deal you can give them and how your fully staffed and equipped and insured ect,ect,to do what's required.
Then you better know what your doing and follow through.

[topsites]

I don't solicit for work.

They call me nowadays.

It's just a lesson I learned, never solicit for work.

[John B Laidlaw]

I'm having a hard time understanding a senior member asking a question that has been asked here umteen times in one form or another. I would think that you would have a good idea since you have been reading threads from 2002!

Also, you seem to be very secreative of your "area" that you do business in. Maybe I'm being a bit paranoid but your question is very specific. How long have you been in business? Hmmmm

[rodfather]

Personally, I would look at this opportunity from a completely different angle...that being of the future homeowners. My marketing strategy would first be to figure out what questions they will be asking of me...topics and concerns of theirs such as credentials, overall knowledge of the green industry, services to offer, years in the business, referrals, etc.

I would also start working on (if you don't already have) some kick-azz literature, company brochure, website, etc. to set you apart from future competitors.

That's how I would go about my plan of attack.

[olderthandirt]

I still think the development of the sub-division is where most of the money will be made. You will have multiple entrances, club houses, swimming pools and common area that the developers will be responsible for. That can lead to a cple yrs of work depending on how fast and elaborate they want things. Compared to the maintenance I think you can net more in 2 yrs than you can in 10. JMO
And if you catch the eye at the entrances, the home buyer can't help but notice your work every time they drive in. And thats 50% of the battle to getting the maintenance.

[muddstopper]

I'm having a hard time understanding a senior member asking a question that has been asked here umteen times in one form or another. I would think that you would have a good idea since you have been reading threads from 2002!

Also, you seem to be very secreative of your "area" that you do business in. Maybe I'm being a bit paranoid but your question is very specific. How long have you been in business? Hmmmm


John, not trying to offend you but, after looking at your profile and seeing that you are not some doe doe just wanting to start a fuss, that is if you are who and what your profile suggest. I will try to answer you in as sincere a manner as possible.

I am 3 months older than you and have been in some sort of business for about a year longer than you have. I live in Western NC. I started work helping my dad cut pulpwood when I couldn't even hold a chainsaw. I used to drive the trucks setting in his lap. I had my own pulpwood truck two years before I could even get a drivers license and I drove it to the wood yard without a license.. I have logged, pushed dirt, planted crops, raised cattle and pigs, built houses, bought and sold real estate, done electrical work, mechanic, race car driver, machining and fabricating, worked on the railroad for 29 years and currently own a hydroseeding company. Now with all the things I have done, nowhere did I mention that I ever ran a lawncare company. I dont think my question is unreasonable given the experience I have with doing lawncare. As for me being a member here since 2002, I have done a lot of reading and I have researched a lot of topics, I have probably spent more time reading about fertilizers, grass, soils, chemicals from other sources besides LS, than most of the people here that went to school to to become turf grass managers. Maybe my question is a little redundant, been asked and answered a thousand times, but sometimes when making a business decision, it just doesnt hurt to get other peoples take on the situation before jumping in with both feet. I hope I have answered all of your questions and I am not trying to be sarcastic with my long answer. Hopefully now you understand my position a little better. If not, oh well.

[muddstopper]

Mac, you make a good point, get the early work that everybody will see before they build or buy a home. Lots of money there.

Rod, I also think you make a good point. When I first started hydro seeding, I made up some brochures and mailed to all the builders, contractors, and real estate companies in my area. I haven spent anything on advertising since, except for the listing in the yellow pages. My business has doubled every year for the last 4 years. (it started as a part time deal for extra cash) I have also been planning a website, making one just isn't one of my strong points. My wife has a degree in Information Technologies and I think I need to motivate her a little on that subject. She is good at putting together brochures to.

Others made some good points to, I appreciate all the responses and any future advise.

[PMLAWN]

If I remember right, your in Marion. no?

The question I ask is do you have the time.
Are you now working the seeding or have employees.
Do you have people ready to do the maintenance or do you need to hire
Or are you doing the work your self at first and that is the reason for the time question.

As far as options for work, get in front of the developer. He is the HOA at this time. You can not only get the install at the beginning but also the maintenance. Than jump each homeowner as they close.

Do you have the application equipment. Get the builder to include lawn care for the first year on each home as part of the package. (THAT WILL BE YOU).
Now you are already on the homeowners property.
Good luck

As a side note I believe that John Laidlaw did not realize that you already do seeding and were looking at adding maintenance

[rodfather]

My very good friend Mac brings up many business points that I never thought of, ie, the initial phase of taking the time to get and do the entrance ways, common areas, pool areas, tennis courts, etc. and all the same time having people come and go see you on a daily basis. Mac knows all about this and is the pro when it comes to this without a doubt.

But, down the road, there will be some substantial props to be mowed. You will need to be ready for sure.

[olderthandirt]

Hey Rod I bet if we could hook up for a season or two we might make 20maybe 30 k EACH. Now thats mattress stuffins

[rodfather]

Hey Rod I bet if we could hook up for a season or two we might make 20maybe 30 k EACH. Now thats mattress stuffins

More like pillows Mac...sorry:nono: I'm a greedy old fart

[olderthandirt]

old fart ! old fart ! old fart ! old fart ! old fart ! old fart ! old fart !
old fart ! old fart ! old fart ! old fart ! old fart ! old fold fart !fart old fart ! old fart ! old fart !

I don't want you to forget YOUR WORDS :p :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[muddstopper]

Pm, a little further west than that, I like to play with the Indians, hint hint.

As to the do I have the time question. NO! but thats what they make employees for. I also plan on retireing in a little over a year from my real job. I will be 49. By then some of the houses should be built and ready for lawns and lawncare.

I currently have two employees that I hired away from a lco a few months back they have really been getting after me to start lawn care. they like to do it and have been doing it for a few years now. they know how to operate the equipment and one of them seems to be level headed, time will tell on that tho. My son is also going to start working for me this spring, he helps out from time to time already so I dont have to train him how to hydroseed. He's 26 years old and over most of the childish junk some of the younger crowd seems to enjoy.

I dont have the specific equipment I feel is appropriate for this kind of work. Chemical sprayers, mowers and such, and most of my fertilizing equipment is probably a little to big for a lawn as well. Which is why I asked opinons on the "must have" equipment.


As for JohnLaidlaw, I researched his posts, I guess he just got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. I dont have a problem with his question and hope I didnt pi$$ him off with my reply. If he does, and I did, well :nono:

[Turf Troll]

muddstopper
What type of hydroseeding rig did you start with - Besides jet or mechanical.
Thanks

[hoskm01]

Topsites

Last week I was asked to bid a hydro seeding job on a new development that is going up real close to my home. I talked to the developers and discussed the what, when's, and so-forths.
Now my questions.



He was asked for the initial work... Didn't solicit it.

How did you get your first account? Second through twentieth account? Bet you did some soliciting.

Go for it mudstopper, bid as much as you can handle and make the place yours from the ground up.

[muddstopper]

Turf troll, I started with a 500 gal jet machine, it paid for itself in 6 weeks. At the end of that first year i bought a 1000 gal bowie, with the money I made with the jet machine. The bowie was just simply to big for most lawns so it didn't see much use, I kept using the jet machine for the lawns and would use the bigger machine for the bigger jobs. After rebuilding and modifying the jet machine a couple of times, it just plain wore out. I bought a 600 gal Finn to take its place and converted the jet machine to a nurse tank. the Finn was a trailer mounted machine but a few months back I bought another truck and jerked the axles out from under the Finn and mounted it on the back of the truck. the nurse tank is also mounted on a separate truck as well as the 1000 gal Bowie. With my setup i can put as much slurry on site as someone with a 2000 gal machine, plus i can keep one of them spraying while the other is being refilled. Small jobs like lawns I usually just use the smaller machine. More trucks and machines means more people, but I need three people when I am blowing straw anyways so its not that big a deal. I can straw faster than I can seed, so we will seed a while and then straw awhile. I pull two trailers behind the empty trucks to the site, one loaded with seeding supplies and one with the blower and straw. I will unhook the trailers next to the water source and then just load off the trailers as I need. I take enough materials with me to do a days work,except for the straw, a trailer load of straw wont go as far as a trailer load of seed . I keep extra straw on hand and can pull an extra trailer load when i have the need for it. Most lawns I don't use straw, hydromulch only. I can knock out a 7000 sq ft lawn in about 30 min if I show up loaded, and with a good water source average a tank load every 30 min. Most loads in one day was 21 using the nurse tank to shuttle water to the machine. That was on one site, only one getting road time was the person driving hauling water.

[Turf Troll]

Hey muddstopper,


1)If you see this as a good opportunity to start a lawn service, what steps would you take to insure that you where ready when the houses are actually built and the owners have moved in. Note the actual building hasn't started yet, just underbrushing, clearing, and building roads

A list of services that you will offer. Start mowing as soon as possible so you know what you expect from your setup , whatever that might be

2)What other opportunities do you see that might be profitable to someone with the ambition and means to make it happen. I am just talking about maintenance and installations, not trying to build, buy or resell houses

Bed pre emergent, mulching, all installations, As full service as I could, have others you could sub out work that I didn’t want to do I would make these arrangements this year .

3)Besides a mower, trimmer, and blower, what other equipment do you see as a "must have" to properly care for a development of this type.
I already have trucks (3) and trailers (2-16 footers, 1-6x10 dump) and a Ventrac 4200 diesel with 60in mowing deck, as well as other attachments. The Ventrac is a good mower but probably not the best choice for this situation. (read as slow) Make a great backup machine tho.

Blade edger, plant growth regulator (lawn & shrub), core aerator, equipment to do weed & feed, leaf vac, if I didn’t do commercial/industrial just residential area’s about 40k to 60k sq.ft. or less especially smaller areas
I would go with the walker riders with the tilt deck, banks/slopes trim 48" scag hydro and the dreaded 21"

4)Questions- what am I going to charge for my services, do I have to bag?

5)I’m an s corp in De. My insurance is the same for installation landscaping and lawn care and weed and feed , My understanding your agent has different companies they can go with . National grange has pesticide in with regular insurance I saw it as a value

[John B Laidlaw]

John, not trying to offend you but, after looking at your profile and seeing that you are not some doe doe just wanting to start a fuss, that is if you are who and what your profile suggest. I will try to answer you in as sincere a manner as possible.

I am 3 months older than you and have been in some sort of business for about a year longer than you have. I live in Western NC. I started work helping my dad cut pulpwood when I couldn't even hold a chainsaw. I used to drive the trucks setting in his lap. I had my own pulpwood truck two years before I could even get a drivers license and I drove it to the wood yard without a license.. I have logged, pushed dirt, planted crops, raised cattle and pigs, built houses, bought and sold real estate, done electrical work, mechanic, race car driver, machining and fabricating, worked on the railroad for 29 years and currently own a hydroseeding company. Now with all the things I have done, nowhere did I mention that I ever ran a lawncare company. I dont think my question is unreasonable given the experience I have with doing lawncare. As for me being a member here since 2002, I have done a lot of reading and I have researched a lot of topics, I have probably spent more time reading about fertilizers, grass, soils, chemicals from other sources besides LS, than most of the people here that went to school to to become turf grass managers. Maybe my question is a little redundant, been asked and answered a thousand times, but sometimes when making a business decision, it just doesnt hurt to get other peoples take on the situation before jumping in with both feet. I hope I have answered all of your questions and I am not trying to be sarcastic with my long answer. Hopefully now you understand my position a little better. If not, oh well.

Muddstopper, my apolgies for sounding disrespectful. I was feeling a bit cynical yesterday and yes, my shoe taste pretty lousy.
Now that I got the facts, it looks like you have more then enough experience to run a Lco but I do have a bit of advise. " A good technician does not make a good business man" Learn all you can about the mundane aspects of running a business but even with that said, jump all over this opportunity! I believe that most owner/operators reading this thread are wishing they had your luck. Best wishes for a prospreous Christmas and New year.

[muddstopper]

John, no apologies needed. We all have bad days.

Thanks everyone for the advise, people that have been in the business have a different ways of looking at something than someone that hasn't been there, done that. I appreciate the advise and opinions.

Merry Christmas and may your New Year be even better than the last

[muddstopper]

Just been jotting down some notes and thought I would get a few more opinions.

Equipment on hand I can utilize for starting.

Ventrac 4200 diesel with:
1. Trencher, great for gutter drains and probably work for irrigation installations
2. Stump grinder
3. 60 in mulch mowing deck
4. 4 ft. tiller
5. 52 in. Harley rake
6. dozer blade
7. scoop, great for moving around mulch and spreading topsoil
8. small set of pallet forks, 550lb load capacity. Good for moving small pallets of plants
9. root rake

430 max Steiner tractor, all attachment will fix this machine as well. also have dual wheels for when the need arises.

First Products, 42 in Areo vator
6ft Seed Easy drop spreader
Tow behind funnel type broadcast spreader
Various hand and push type broadcasters
Earth Auger, hand held gas powered
Various chainsaws
Old Husky 25cc weed trimmer, still runs good
Yellow Jacket straw blower
600 gal Finn and 1000 gal bowie
1 ton dually 4x4 pickup
1/2 ton pickup
1 4500 duramax flatbed (600 gal Finn mounted on back but removable)
1 3500 flatbed (removable nurse tank mounted on back)
1 c65 with 1000 gal Bowie frame mounted (not removable)
2 16 ft 7000lb trailers
1 6x10 7000 lb dump trailer
1 Yellow Jacket straw blower, ( this also works great for large area leaf removal and can also serve as a leaf vac by hooking hose to suction side and blowing into bed of trailer or truck, (must have cover over top of truck or trailer bed to keep the leaves in)

Ornamental and pest control license


Equipment I feel I need, but not necessarily all at once
1. Tractor or skid steer with backhoe and mowing attachment for doing the landscaping as well as for mowing the roadways and unimproved areas
2. 60 in ztr ( the development is mostly pasture land, wide open rolling spaces)
3. 48 in walk behind
4. Backpack or held held blower
5. chemical spray rig, probably just a small skid type for pesticides and fertilizers, al tho I prefer granular types
6. Newer model trimmer
7. edger

Alright, what am I missing.

[olderthandirt]

The contract!

Merry Christmas

[PMLAWN]

The contract!

Merry Christmas

LOL:p :p
Dang Mud, you got a bunch of stuff. I will be interested in talking about what you do with it all.

I think I will copy it and send it to Santa as my List

[muddstopper]

The contract!

Merry Christmas

Dang it! I knew i was forgetting something. LMAO

[muddstopper]

LOL:p :p
Dang Mud, you got a bunch of stuff. I will be interested in talking about what you do with it all.

I think I will copy it and send it to Santa as my List

I also have a T-Shirt that says "The man that dies with the most tools WIN'S"

Most of the equipment is just collecting rust. I use it to fill in the slow times inbetween hydroseeding jobs, which lately hasnt been much. The stump grinder and harely rake are the money makers. I use the mowing deck just for my own lawn. But its all paid for, except for the new Duramax, just got it this fall.