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MTR
12-21-2005, 03:07 PM
It is almost bargain time of year, last week of the year! Many of dealers in town are giving special price on their fleet.
I just want some of input from those who either own new '05 Tundra or '05 F 150. I am looking at Tundra reg cab with manual tran, likewise on F 150, as this will probably be used for mowing and estimate, no sodding job or hardcore mulch hauling.
Any input and why please fill in. Thanks

RedWingsDet
12-21-2005, 03:11 PM
i'd buy a ford. I like chevy, ford and dodge, its just a matter or what is cheapest IMO, and thats what I'll buy, as long as they're compareable.

If you plan on hauling alot, get a 3/4 ton. Otherwise, whatever you get, buy AMERICAN. I could careless if the fords are not made in america, but the profits still come back home to america, and thats what matters.

South Florida Lawns
12-21-2005, 06:55 PM
Toyota has a great truck, but to be honest they are still not on top of their game. Drum brakes in the rear, weak V8 engine, and its more of a car compared to other trucks available. The toy will be more expensive to get parts out of warranty than the Ford.

MTR
12-21-2005, 07:14 PM
Toyota has a great truck, but to be honest they are still not on top of their game. Drum brakes in the rear, weak V8 engine, and its more of a car compared to other trucks available. The toy will be more expensive to get parts out of warranty than the Ford.

You are right on the dot about "car-like" feeling riding on the Toy, but as you know they have history of great mileage accumulation, 250,000 on its original easily, but oddly, you don't see many of Toyota used primarily in lawn service, they are more like for college kids, and office workers who like trucks. That is why I love to hear more from others who has some experience with new Tundra lineup. Each year, Toyota is more and more trying to break in to or cornering truck market. As for Ford, I know how it is cause my current one is 94' 150.

Lawn Masters
12-21-2005, 07:44 PM
I'm actully looking at buying a tundra later on, maybe if they beef up the v8 some, and put a good bit of power in it, like around the 290-350 mark, I'd be interested in that motor.

lawnboy dan
12-21-2005, 07:46 PM
i boughtr a new striped down tundra in 2003. to replace mt 83 toyota long bed. i cant tell what its like as a work truck yet cause the 83 is still going strong! 14,000 k on the tundra now -no problems ever. the tundra is every inch the truck the big3 are and much more reliable . my v6 gets 19-20 mpg in town. my 1 complaint is the bed is too shallow but i think the newest ones are deeper now. one of my custermers bought a 2004 ford-the rear end has been replaced 3 times under warrenty.

procut
12-21-2005, 10:51 PM
For realitivly light duty work like your talking abount the Toyota would be the best choice IMO.

P & L Turf
12-21-2005, 11:00 PM
I've got a new F-150 on the fleet and I love it. For a little homeowner unit it has some balls and can move a good amount of snow. The only problem is with a 7' 6" plow the plow frame tends to bottom out on some driveway approaches. One positive is it's good in those half circle drives or really any drive for that fact. It's always good to have a smaller truck like that in the fleet for tight areas like that. Plus in hauls the New Holand LS195 with some attachments real good. Just a little sag while I'm looking at the sky when pulling them. :eek: I like it but make sure thats what you want and not something bigger and stronger.:cool:

Weedburner
12-21-2005, 11:15 PM
I bought a new F150 this summer. I have a X4 with a 5.4 engine and a 3.73 rear end. A very nice truck. The only problem is the fuel economy. My old 2001 F150 got about 15.5 on the road and my new truck about 14. Both had the 5.4 engine and 4 wheel drive. The old truck had a 3.55 rear end. A friend has a 2004 4 X4 F150 with the same engine and the 3.55 rear end. We went on a hunting trip this fall and he beat me a bit over 1.5 mile per gallon. I pull my trailer often so I bought the full size truck. You may want to think about the economy if you going to be using it for primarily transportation. Our small town has a Chevy and a Ford dealer. I have tried to buy local from the guy with the sharpest pencil. Just have not learned to like the front of the Chevy's since the last body change. I think poor engineering and quality have come home to roost for them. After looking at some Toyota and Nissan trucks I may have to think hard next time. They include a lot of little extras Ford and Chevy charge for. it is getting real difficult to define an import any more. Does concern me that GM is closing plants about as fast as Honda and Toyota can build them.

capitallandscapes
12-22-2005, 02:41 AM
As far as half tons go, Tundra is the most reliable. I have had an F-150 and it was always something that needed fixed. I had a 1998 chevy and it was even worse. Now my personal truck is a 2002 Tundra w/ 126K on it and besides regular maint. it has never needed anything. That is saying a lot because I drive a lot and am hard on trucks.

hosejockey2002
12-22-2005, 02:06 PM
I could careless if the fords are not made in america, but the profits still come back home to america, and thats what matters.

No matter whose truck you buy, they are all made by publicly owned companies. The profits go to the stockholders, wherever they live. If you buy a bunch of Toyota stock, even if you live in Detroit the profits come back to you. If some Japanese guy owns a bunch of Ford stock, then when Ford makes money he does too. If you use the "profits come home to America" logic, whatever you do don't buy a Dodge, because DaimlerChrysler AG is a German company. Guys who are looking for a truck should worry about their own personal profits first and buy the truck what suits their needs. Having said that I wouldn't consider a Tundra or F150 for my use because they cost nearly as much as a HD 3/4 ton and won't hold up nearly as well in heavy use.

Roger
12-22-2005, 03:11 PM
I don't know anything about the Tundra, but did replace me F-150 (1990) with an F-250 about two years ago. If I understood your initial post right, you meant the F-150 had a standard transmission (like the Tundra). Am I right? If so, it must be the XL model, not XLT.

I was looking for an F-150 with standard transmission, but was unable to find one. All I could find was XLT, and all had auto transmission. I went to a commercial Ford truck dealer and got an F-250 XL work truck (rubber mats, vinyl seat, simple radio, simple mirrors, towing package, ...) for about the same price as an F-150 XLT, with more bells/whistles. I don't do heavy work (pulling single axle trailer, cover over back of pickup, full off tools/equipment), but the F-250 fit my needs better. Downside: very poor fuel economy, compared to my F-150 (inline six cyl, manual trans).

If you can find an F-150 XL, with no bell/whistles, then, good! You did better than me. Your mention of "fleet" may mean these are F-150 XL, stripped down.

MTR
12-22-2005, 07:14 PM
I don't know anything about the Tundra, but did replace me F-150 (1990) with an F-250 about two years ago. If I understood your initial post right, you meant the F-150 had a standard transmission (like the Tundra). Am I right? If so, it must be the XL model, not XLT.

I was looking for an F-150 with standard transmission, but was unable to find one. All I could find was XLT, and all had auto transmission. I went to a commercial Ford truck dealer and got an F-250 XL work truck (rubber mats, vinyl seat, simple radio, simple mirrors, towing package, ...) for about the same price as an F-150 XLT, with more bells/whistles. I don't do heavy work (pulling single axle trailer, cover over back of pickup, full off tools/equipment), but the F-250 fit my needs better. Downside: very poor fuel economy, compared to my F-150 (inline six cyl, manual trans).

If you can find an F-150 XL, with no bell/whistles, then, good! You did better than me. Your mention of "fleet" may mean these are F-150 XL, stripped down.

There is "absolutely" F-150 (2006) with 4.2 , v6 , 5 speed manual tranny. I just talked to a sales person of one of volume Ford dealers of Central Florida today. The price tag out the door is just under $15,000 (after rebate, and blah, blah) or even you come up with cash still under 15k. Yes, it is stripped down, but has ac, stereo, and etc, that is all I care. The 4.2 can run 100,000 before changining spark plugs and tune-up, plus ther is no rubber timing belt that need to be replaced like Toyota, Nissan at 90-100,000 miles. It uses chain timing, and water pump has been improved so that you may run up to 200,000 miles before tinkering with it. It is basic work horse, easy to take care and maintain, fit well with me.

South Florida Lawns
12-22-2005, 07:48 PM
Thats one thing Toyota has down. Their old 4 cylinder 22RE engines simply will not die. I want a little 1 ton Toyota pickup as a lawn truck, they are badazz, especially with a flatbed or stake body.

CharlieBingo
12-22-2005, 08:10 PM
MTR, making it over 100K OR 200K miles with that Ford truck won't be easy unless your mechanical or a very good calm driver. My Toyota just turned 200k runs like new even the oil stays golden yellow betwwen 4000k oil changes. It frustrates me the big three trucks and cars are so far behind the Jap trucks. It kills me to say that. P.S. I also own G.M. and Ford vehicles. My 97 F250 burst in flames after 3 yrs of nagging problems; truth be told I was glad to watch it burn.

lawnboy dan
12-22-2005, 08:16 PM
my 22r has 300k with no repairs except timming chain. even more amazing auto trans is original too -never rebuilt. i had a hard time finding a striped down tundra too. they want to sell you the upscale models. i went to a HUGE dealer and they only had 3 long bed reg cabs and hundred of the other models. i really pissed them off by paying cash!

Roger
12-22-2005, 08:52 PM
MTR - Your finding was different than mine -- no dealer even knew about an F-150 with standard shift. You did well to find one. And, the commercial dealer never dealt with F-150, only F-250 XL (one model, one configuration, any color as long as it was white!).

One more point that may be important to consider. My F-150 (1990) with standard was used to pull the same trailer mentioned in the other post (earlier in life, pulling a smaller one). But, I lost one clutch, and was ready to loose another went it was sent away. The only reason was the high-geared reverse. The reverse gearing in the F-150 standard is fine for backing out of a parking space at the local strip mall, but much too fast for use at the local dump, while backing a trailer down a muddy road to dump debris. Or, too fast to back up a customer driveway with the trailer, or backing out of a driveway that slopes down. If I still have the gear ratios right in my memory, an F-150 gear was about 3.47:1, whereas a reverse gear in an F-250 (6 speed) is about 5:50:1. You may not have this reverse problem, but I did because of the situations mentioned above (trailer control in a muddy dump, steep driveways).

As a side note, getting those gear ratios was very difficult. It is not a question that is asked. One salesman did much digging for me to get the spec sheets. I didn't think it was an unreasonable request.

MTR
12-23-2005, 12:39 AM
MTR, making it over 100K OR 200K miles with that Ford truck won't be easy unless your mechanical or a very good calm driver. My Toyota just turned 200k runs like new even the oil stays golden yellow betwwen 4000k oil changes. It frustrates me the big three trucks and cars are so far behind the Jap trucks. It kills me to say that. P.S. I also own G.M. and Ford vehicles. My 97 F250 burst in flames after 3 yrs of nagging problems; truth be told I was glad to watch it burn.

I know for very long time that The Toy is tough, as I have seen many of them with well over 200k mileage and still cooking. The point that Ford is hard to reach 200k without major repair is dependent on driver also true. Ford loves breaking down with annoying problems and I realized that, why I asked Toyota owners how they like theirs. You don't see many Toyota trucks being towed to repair shop as quite often as the big three. I have not pulled any trigger, cause more time and besides my 150 still doing okay, but the Tundra never leaves my plan.

brucec32
12-26-2005, 11:40 AM
It is almost bargain time of year, last week of the year! Many of dealers in town are giving special price on their fleet.
I just want some of input from those who either own new '05 Tundra or '05 F 150. I am looking at Tundra reg cab with manual tran, likewise on F 150, as this will probably be used for mowing and estimate, no sodding job or hardcore mulch hauling.
Any input and why please fill in. Thanks

I had an '00 Tundra access cab V8 and it was a nice truck. Generally reliable though a little trouble with rear drums warping (fixed free) and two 02 sensors went out (also fixed under warranty). Otherwise no problems.

The Tundra reg cab is a little tight for taller drivers. I can fit in one but feel like I need another inch of seat travel. The F150 will have more storage space behind the seat. It also lacks a real console I believe, having just a padded armrest in the middle. I couldn't do w/o one of those. You'd have to buy something aftermarket there.

The 8' bed of the Tundra can be a help or a hindrance depending on how you use it. The wheelbase is a little longer than the Ford's, and Tundras have a notoriously wide turn circle for their size. I think it's the narrowness limiting wheel travel. But it feels nice on the road and has a solid rep.

The F150 looks good and has some good features. But some have had reliability problems, so it's more of a gamble there I'd say, though Tundras have their problems too. The V6 on the Tundra will be quicker than the Ford I'm pretty sure. Both have a good reputation for smooth ride and decent handling. The Tundra is "soft" stock so I'd recommend an antisway bar if you want sharper handling w/ less body roll.

Both have great prices now on V6 models modestly equipped. Can't go wrong with either.

MTR
12-26-2005, 01:36 PM
Is it true, Tundra is coming out with new design due September 2006 as a 2007 model line up? If true, I will wait then, longer wait, price getting better.

Dirty Water
12-26-2005, 03:16 PM
Just FYI, The toyota tundra is built on US soil with US labor.

Subject: 1.5 - Is it an import, or is it an American truck ?

The Tundra's engine parts and some other parts are probably the only thing that
is assembled in Japan. The truck itself is assembled in a new multi-million
dollar facility in Princeton, Indiana. According to Toyota's web site, the
engine is produced in West Virginia and will be produced in a new facility
somewhere else in the United States.

The reasoning for assembling the truck in the United States is two-fold. One
is to avoid the large import tariffs that occur when you import something from
Japan. BMW did something similar to make their new X-series SUV, and
Mercedes-Benz (now DaimlerChrysler) did the same thing to make their ML320/420
series. The second is to appeal to American buyers, who are one of the most
loyal truck buyers in the world. The "Buy American" statement can now be
applied to the Tundra.

From http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/toyota-faq/tundra/index.html

As far as the rear drum brakes, The Toyota Sequoa uses the same chassy as the tundra, but as 4 wheel disc brakes, so it would probably be a easy swap.

I also think TRD makes a upgrade package.

If Toyota moves into the medium duty market, the Big 3 are going to be in trouble.

Travis Followell
12-28-2005, 07:53 PM
If Toyota moves into the medium duty market, the Big 3 are going to be in trouble.
Ford and Chevy already are.

bobcatboy
12-28-2005, 09:08 PM
get the f-150 proven ,reiliable and better looking cheaper to work on and an american owned company, not just built here.

pargon
12-28-2005, 11:04 PM
I have an 05 tundra...it pulls my 14' trailer loaded w/ no problem...it is an ext. cab and it did cost more then an f150 ...however toyota's DO last longer and hold their value a little better then a ford,...simple fact

lawnboy dan
12-28-2005, 11:30 PM
i hope my new tundra will last 23 years like my last toyota truck did. it will likely out last me!

J&R Landscaping
12-29-2005, 07:00 AM
I have seen many people who own the toyota trucks for personal use but I personally have not seen many of them used for commercial applications like towing a trailer etc. I have however seen the older models 90-95ish with plows on the front and when I talk to their owners, they have mixed feelings about them!
I personally have a few fords and I must say they do the work quite well! My 1988 F150 tows quite well and has no problem pushing a plow despite the fact of only being 2wd. It has the heavy duty 5speed manual with a granny gear 1st and it is paired to the 4.9L Straight 6. (IMO The best engine out there that ford hads ever made!) :rolleyes:

I don't know what pwople use in your market but I know ford is big in my neck of the woods. Hey the only problem with fords are the recalls (but we can't always be perfect now can we???) :confused:
Test drive and find out about towing capacities from your local dealer and see how they compare. Which ever will make you the most $ for your investment would be how I would choose but thats just me!

Best of luck in making a wise descision

Joe
J&R Lawn and Landscaping

MTR
12-29-2005, 01:46 PM
Conclusion: Toyota is for yuppies, office workers, wannabe. (Accountant driving Tundra v 8 towing nothing, just a thought).
Ford is for touch hard-working all walks of life. I fall in this category, so blue oval all the way, :gunsfirin

brucec32
02-01-2006, 06:08 PM
Toyota has a great truck, but to be honest they are still not on top of their game. Drum brakes in the rear, weak V8 engine, and its more of a car compared to other trucks available. The toy will be more expensive to get parts out of warranty than the Ford.

gotta correct this and some other misconceptions.

1. Those drums in the rear still stop shorter than the competition. It stopped like a sports car compared to my '03 Ram. It's even a much more confident vehicle to drive with just a few minor modifications. (shocks, rear springs, sway bar $1,000). In mag tests even loaded it stopped better than others. This does not necessarily apply to the oversized double cabs, which are overweight for the chassis.
2. That "weak" V8 engine scoots a 2wd access cab to 60 in 7.8 seconds. Compare that to about 9.0 in Ford F150 with a "powerful" engine. It also is a DOHC 32 valve design similar to that used in the Lexus LS 400 and is much smoother and will deliver that power with less noise and fuss than a pushrod engine. I have a Hemi in my Ram now but it doesn't feel a bit faster in reasonable use conditions. It just makes a racket. It also weighs about 500-700 lbs less than a comparable domestic, so that hp/weight ratio is better and it holds its own in this regard.
3. I owned a '00 Tundra that towed great. I could easily pull ahead of cars from a stoplight when towing a trailer with two or three mowers on it. The only problem was that it didn't have front ABS that year and w/o trailer brakes it would lock up in extreme panic situations. But any truck w/o ABS would in those situations. That's been fixed. ABS is standard. The truck tows and stops great for light duty (under 5,000 lbs) use.
4. The Tundra parts will cost more. But it's under warranty on powertrain items for 60K vs 36K on the Ford and Chevy trucks. It also will, if you believe the stats and word-of-mouth out there, break less often and last longer, saving you money in the long run on parts.
5. Tundras are assembled in the US. Some domestic trucks (Like my current Dodge Ram) are assembled in Mexico. But the money doesn't necessarily "come back to the US" . The money goes to the stockholders. You can be Japanese and own stock in a US company, or American, and own stock in a Japanese auto manufacturer. Also, most of the jobs in the auto industry are in parts manufacturing, not just the final assembly. So a truck assembled here may have a lot of Japanese parts in it, or a domestic assembled in Mexico or Canada may have a lot of American parts in it. You can't tell anymore w/o some serious research.

I didn't buy another Tundra because they are homely and I wanted something better looking and just different. It's a great size if you value being able to maneuver into tight spots and not feel like you're in the other lane half the time due to your bulk.

QualityLawnCare4u
02-01-2006, 06:32 PM
MTR, I had a 05 reg cab V6 and it was ok but I now have a 05 double cab V8 with 4 full size doors and after having the V6 you will not be sorry with the V8. I have mine up for sale on LS market place and I have marked it down to only a couple grand more than what you are looking at for a base model reg cab and mine is loaded with ext warranty. I tried the big 3 auto makers and the Tundra beat them all hands down for quite smooth ride and tows with no problem. Like I said the V6 if fine but you will not be worry with the V8. First time you punch it you will know why.

lawnboy dan
02-01-2006, 09:26 PM
i agree the tundra is ugly but i didnt buy it for looks . i bought for reliability. my last toyota went 23 yrs and 300K.the v6 isnt powerfull but is thrifty. i get 19 mpg w/mine

Smalltimer1
02-01-2006, 11:23 PM
There is "absolutely" F-150 (2006) with 4.2 , v6 , 5 speed manual tranny. I just talked to a sales person of one of volume Ford dealers of Central Florida today. The price tag out the door is just under $15,000 (after rebate, and blah, blah) or even you come up with cash still under 15k. Yes, it is stripped down, but has ac, stereo, and etc, that is all I care. The 4.2 can run 100,000 before changining spark plugs and tune-up, plus ther is no rubber timing belt that need to be replaced like Toyota, Nissan at 90-100,000 miles. It uses chain timing, and water pump has been improved so that you may run up to 200,000 miles before tinkering with it. It is basic work horse, easy to take care and maintain, fit well with me.


The new 4.2's are tough as nails and will go every bit of 200k and then some if you take care of it. The '97-'99's had the timing chain cover gasket problem, but that has long since been solved, and the 4.2 is now a solid engine.

I worked for the local dealer 2 years ago in the summer and the parts guy ran their '00 F-150 4.2 with no relent, and it has well over 120k in hard, beaten up miles.

My problem with Toyotas is overall build--i.e. RUST. Give a Toy 5 years hauling fertilizer, salt, anything corrosive, and it's gone in no time. Ours didn't make it but a little over 3 years before holes started appearing in the fenders, and that makes you wonder what it does to the frame.....:dizzy: A Ford will work under the same conditions for 15+ years.

Smalltimer1
02-01-2006, 11:25 PM
MTR, making it over 100K OR 200K miles with that Ford truck won't be easy unless your mechanical or a very good calm driver. My Toyota just turned 200k runs like new even the oil stays golden yellow betwwen 4000k oil changes. It frustrates me the big three trucks and cars are so far behind the Jap trucks. It kills me to say that. P.S. I also own G.M. and Ford vehicles. My 97 F250 burst in flames after 3 yrs of nagging problems; truth be told I was glad to watch it burn.


Toy owner b/s. All our Fords have gone well over 200k before any thing has been done other than brakes and alignments. Last one I sold, an '84, had 220k and ran like a top and drove like a dream.

Smalltimer1
02-01-2006, 11:29 PM
I have an 05 tundra...it pulls my 14' trailer loaded w/ no problem...it is an ext. cab and it did cost more then an f150 ...however toyota's DO last longer and hold their value a little better then a ford,...simple fact


I seriously doubt this statement.:nono: Look at how many 60's and 70's era Ford trucks are still on the roads, at least 200,000 of them....all with 200k or better on the odometer. Where are those older Toyotas???? I don't see but one or 2 every now and then, and they're usually in someone's back yard collecting rust and dust....:waving:

The only reason Toys hold their value better than Fords is because Toy has no fleet sales base or rental sales base. Those factors flood the market with Ford trucks and therefore drive the value down.

Smalltimer1
02-01-2006, 11:40 PM
gotta correct this and some other misconceptions.

1. Those drums in the rear still stop shorter than the competition. It stopped like a sports car compared to my '03 Ram. It's even a much more confident vehicle to drive with just a few minor modifications. (shocks, rear springs, sway bar $1,000). In mag tests even loaded it stopped better than others. This does not necessarily apply to the oversized double cabs, which are overweight for the chassis.

Tundras are well over 1000lbs. lighter than comparable F-150's and at least 500lb. lighter than Dodges and Chevys, therefore less mass can be stopped faster. Ford's biggest weakness is weight. The F-150 gained a ton of weight literally with the new body.

2. That "weak" V8 engine scoots a 2wd access cab to 60 in 7.8 seconds. Compare that to about 9.0 in Ford F150 with a "powerful" engine. It also is a DOHC 32 valve design similar to that used in the Lexus LS 400 and is much smoother and will deliver that power with less noise and fuss than a pushrod engine. I have a Hemi in my Ram now but it doesn't feel a bit faster in reasonable use conditions. It just makes a racket. It also weighs about 500-700 lbs less than a comparable domestic, so that hp/weight ratio is better and it holds its own in this regard.

You are also comparing Toy's 282hp 4.7 to the Ford 235hp 4.6L V8, which is due for an update. Ford is going to release the 3V heads on the 4.6 F-150 giving it 292hp like the '06 Explorers have, then they will tune the 5.4 higher to 330 or 340, or release the rumored 6.2L "Hurricane" if it hasn't been cancelled, but I had heard it had at one point. Also consider the F-150 has more mass to move, therefore making it slower when it has less power on top of that.

4. The Tundra parts will cost more. But it's under warranty on powertrain items for 60K vs 36K on the Ford and Chevy trucks. It also will, if you believe the stats and word-of-mouth out there, break less often and last longer, saving you money in the long run on parts.

When lighter brakes wear out faster, ball joints go bad from overloading due to a lesser payload, and shocks have to be put in every 20k from being overweight, the advantages of a Toyota will long be gone. That 'lasting longer' will be due to lots of attention paid to it with lots of $$$$ over those years.

Smalltimer1
02-01-2006, 11:44 PM
i agree the tundra is ugly but i didnt buy it for looks . i bought for reliability. my last toyota went 23 yrs and 300K.the v6 isnt powerfull but is thrifty. i get 19 mpg w/mine

We had an Isuzu Pup gasser that went 400k--if I absolutely had to have a foreign truck it would be an Isuzu Pup. Not very heavy, but good for running around and moving small loads.

cuttinggrassiscool
02-02-2006, 12:43 AM
well i have an 87 f-150 that i bought used a few years ago, it does have very low miles on it but it still runs great. it is usually pulling a full 6 x 12 and even though it is rated at half a ton i have done a few short stints with a ton of crushed stone. i do drive it easy, it saves gas though. it is the 4.9 in line 6 with the 3 speed overdrive(manual). it still gets great gas mileage for the age, i forget the exact amount. i feel it is perfect for what you want, parts are easy to get too. i don't think i have ever needed a part autozone didn't have in stock. because their are so many around parts seem to be in stock more often. i would get the ford.

Smalltimer1
02-02-2006, 08:42 AM
well i have an 87 f-150 that i bought used a few years ago, it does have very low miles on it but it still runs great. it is usually pulling a full 6 x 12 and even though it is rated at half a ton i have done a few short stints with a ton of crushed stone. i do drive it easy, it saves gas though. it is the 4.9 in line 6 with the 3 speed overdrive(manual). it still gets great gas mileage for the age, i forget the exact amount. i feel it is perfect for what you want, parts are easy to get too. i don't think i have ever needed a part autozone didn't have in stock. because their are so many around parts seem to be in stock more often. i would get the ford.

The 300/6 was one of the best engines Ford ever made. If there was a gasser capable of 500k right out of the box, it would be the 240/300 straight 6's.

MTR
02-02-2006, 01:36 PM
The new 4.2's are tough as nails and will go every bit of 200k and then some if you take care of it. The '97-'99's had the timing chain cover gasket problem, but that has long since been solved, and the 4.2 is now a solid engine.

I worked for the local dealer 2 years ago in the summer and the parts guy ran their '00 F-150 4.2 with no relent, and it has well over 120k in hard, beaten up miles.

My problem with Toyotas is overall build--i.e. RUST. Give a Toy 5 years hauling fertilizer, salt, anything corrosive, and it's gone in no time. Ours didn't make it but a little over 3 years before holes started appearing in the fenders, and that makes you wonder what it does to the frame.....:dizzy: A Ford will work under the same conditions for 15+ years.

I know that Ford 4.2 v6 is the workhorse, it takes most beating than other engines cause there are around USA in every city, construction, lumber, electrician, and HVAC guys. You see, the problem with Ford truck is more like the electrical system, main relay, fuel relay, and computer chips things go bad inside powerbox after few years and they are so difficult to find, although most of them minor and small fix but TIME comsuming. Meanwhile all Toys truck have bulletproof electrical system, so you have to balance which one to go with.

hackitdown
02-04-2006, 01:41 PM
I have a 2001 4x4 V8 supercab style Tundra that I have used for business for the past 3 seasons. I pull a 16' open trailer with a 52" ztr, 48" wb, 21" wb, blower, trimmers, gas, etc, and it works great. It has 85K miles, and went to the shop only once for new o2 sensors (covered by Toyota even though the truck had over 80K miles). I live in New England, but it has no rust so far. It blows away my last '97 F150.

But I wish I still had my bright red 1991 F150 reg cab V8 long bed. That was a pickup.

glllc
02-04-2006, 04:52 PM
Toyota trucks are a JOKE. I can not believe some one would even think about using one for ANY kind of work.

MTR
02-05-2006, 03:31 AM
Toyota trucks are a JOKE. I can not believe some one would even think about using one for ANY kind of work.


Could you support your statement with some more clarification? What you meant by JOKE? If any truck that will take F-150 spot in this country, it will be the TOYOTA, as outside USA, the Toyota is #1, you know the that well. Look at California...they are Toyota country and now east coast is creeping...so you have to be specific on what you said...

Smalltimer1
02-05-2006, 10:52 AM
Could you support your statement with some more clarification? What you meant by JOKE? If any truck that will take F-150 spot in this country, it will be the TOYOTA, as outside USA, the Toyota is #1, you know the that well. Look at California...they are Toyota country and now east coast is creeping...so you have to be specific on what you said...

My take on his statement is that Toyotas run a very light suspension and small light frames. These combine to give Toyota the edge on fuel economy but sacrifice vehicle integrity in the event of a wreck.

Personally I've seen a frame section of the F-150 and a frame section of the Tundra, and the Tundra is down right scary.....as in I wouldn't want my family to be in a wreck in one because there's not much there to prevent a total structural collapse from the side. The body may be designed well, but the frame sure isn't. The F-150's frame is fully boxed in and twice as thick and tall as the Toy's.

BTW, I saw the 2007 or 08 Toyota Tundra concept and it looks like a Tacoma that took some alka-seltzer and got shook up. It uses the same 4.7 V8 as now with no larger engine option available or higher HP rating with the same 4 spd. automatic. [YAWN]

MTR
02-05-2006, 12:27 PM
also..the Toy's cost always at least 3k more on price across the board on comparable models than Ford. Trying to bargain the price of the Toy's down is like talking to brick wall, and all they keep saying is the Toy's hold their values most, most dependable, no need for us to reduce price! firm firm firm....:realmad:

gaulk
02-07-2006, 08:41 PM
buy american

Dirty Water
02-07-2006, 08:57 PM
also..the Toy's cost always at least 3k more on price across the board on comparable models than Ford. Trying to bargain the price of the Toy's down is like talking to brick wall, and all they keep saying is the Toy's hold their values most, most dependable, no need for us to reduce price! firm firm firm....:realmad:

There is a reason I can buy a '95 F-150 for $5k and a '90 Toyota for $8k.

Toyota's engineering and build quality is superior in every way.

Think of this way, if you buy a Toyota you will LOSE less money due to depreciation when you sell it.

And SmallTimer, take a look at crash ratings between the F-150 and the Tundra....Both scored almost identical. Remember, Manufactures put weak points into their frames to keep the vehicle from crushing the occupants.

Smalltimer1
02-07-2006, 10:19 PM
There is a reason I can buy a '95 F-150 for $5k and a '90 Toyota for $8k.

If you're giving $8k for a 16 year old Toyota, you are really getting taken advantage of. Most around here that old are lucky to go for $800... The 4x4 trucks usually go for $2500, but thats if they are immaculate.

Toyota's engineering and build quality is superior in every way.

I'd have to disagree there. They have the interior stuff worked out pretty well, but they haven't figured out what is supposed to be beefy on a truck yet. Ford has a 9.75" ring gear in the rear end and Toyota has somewhere near a 8.0". What would you rather pull a camper up the grade at Black Mountain on I-40 with?

Remember the Ford 9" nodular rear end??? Guess who is using that same style rear axle.....hmmm...Toy-what???...Wonder where they got that from? What a novel idea!

Another example would be in the leaf springs. Toyota's can only be called superior to a rubber band.

Think of this way, if you buy a Toyota you will LOSE less money due to depreciation when you sell it.

Toyotas will depreciate like everything else. You can only sell a vehicle for what another person is willing to give for it. The blue book may say one thing, but a man's wallet will say something else.

And SmallTimer, take a look at crash ratings between the F-150 and the Tundra....Both scored almost identical. Remember, Manufactures put weak points into their frames to keep the vehicle from crushing the occupants.

Right, but still which one would take a wreck and be able to get back on the road after the same type of wreck? Obviously there is no way a wreck can exactly be duplicated to test this, but chances are, the Ford will survive and be able to stay on the road, while the Toyota will have suffered a bent and/or cracked frame or worse and end up being declared totalled. It's good that they both protect what's inside (the people), as that is the top concern and priority, but next in line after that would be who can get back on the road with minimal investment and least downtime as possible. Again this is difficult to judge, but taking into consideration the cost of parts and labor, the Ford will once again, leave the Toyota behind.

Example....A Ford F-150 and a Toyota Tundra have a front end collision at the same speed with the same obstacle. They both need a new front bumper, hood, grille, front fenders, radiator, radiator support, and so on.

The Ford is worth $9,000 and can be repaired and put back in service for a cost of $5,000. The Toyota is worth $10,000, and requires $9,000 to be put back in service. Assume both are being put back together with OEM parts.

Which would you rather pay? Do you think insurance would pay to have a truck repaired that there is only $1000 difference in parts and the whole truck's value? That means there is the ins. co. payout of $9000 for a truck that's only worth $10k which will take a bigger hit once issued a salvage title if it is determined to be totalled or beyond repair depending on your state and/or insurance company's regulations and agencies like Car Fax that look for histories of vehicles that are for sale and therefore will tell the potential buyer that the said vehicle has been wrecked and therefore will sell for less.

I'm sure the difference isn't that exaggerated, but it is a fact that Toyota parts cost more than domestic parts, regardless of Ford, Chevy, or Dodge and that is a factor that will determine whether a man will drive away in his original truck, or be forced to replace it, which will drive the cost of vehicle ownership up overall.

trent515
02-08-2006, 12:14 AM
I have to agree that Toyotas are pretty inferior to Ford. Don't get me wrong, I know they have their place with some people, but not for me, and I'm not a Ford man either. Toyota's torque and hp don't compare well to other trucks on the market. Frankly, my opinion is that the Toyota trucks (Tundra and Tacoma) are car-trucks, trucks for those who like driving a car-like vehicle, yet want a bed out back and, with 4X4, a cool off-road machine. Fords aren't the prettiest out there, but man will they get the job done. We have an old 81 Ford that's been overworked, abused, and beaten to heck, and still works like a truck should.

treadlite
02-08-2006, 01:04 AM
some things to consider.....
toyotas bring 3k more when used because they cost 6k more to buy new

if toyota trucks are so much longer lasting than domestics, why do you not see them all over for fleet use??? emergency vehicles? delivery trucks? fleet users know what lasts the best and is the most cost effective based on years of experience.

a ford truck that makes it to 200k miles is commonplace and nobody says much about them

a toyota truck that makes it to 200k is a newsworthy event and toyota makes a T.V. ad about them.

As a full time firefighter and someone who has had to cut both the living and the dead out of wrecked vehicles, I'd place very little stock in any crash test ratings. Vehicles can be designed to pass the crash test ratings with flying colors yet fail in the most horrible ways in real life. Years of experience has taught me that the bigger, more solidly built vehicles and their occupants survive better in crashes. Airbags and seatbelts are worthless when they're mounted to tinfoil...

Dirty Water
02-08-2006, 06:14 AM
some things to consider.....
toyotas bring 3k more when used because they cost 6k more to buy new

Ford MSRP $28k
Toyota MSPR $30k.

6k difference?


if toyota trucks are so much longer lasting than domestics, why do you not see them all over for fleet use??? emergency vehicles? delivery trucks? fleet users know what lasts the best and is the most cost effective based on years of experience.

Fleets sell their vehicles at a 100k before any major maitenance has to be done, so they go with the cheapest vehicles they can purchase.

a ford truck that makes it to 200k miles is commonplace and nobody says much about them

a toyota truck that makes it to 200k is a newsworthy event and toyota makes a T.V. ad about them.

I'm waiting for a ford that I personally own to make it to 200k without having its tranny replaced.

Toyota's go to 300-400 all the time.


As a full time firefighter and someone who has had to cut both the living and the dead out of wrecked vehicles, I'd place very little stock in any crash test ratings. Vehicles can be designed to pass the crash test ratings with flying colors yet fail in the most horrible ways in real life. Years of experience has taught me that the bigger, more solidly built vehicles and their occupants survive better in crashes. Airbags and seatbelts are worthless when they're mounted to tinfoil...

A vehicle built with a heavy duty boxed frame is more likely to crush the engine back into the dash, trapping the driver compared to a vehicle with crumple zones.

As a firefighter, you should know this.

Sorry Smalltimer, I'll get to your post tommorow, its late.

hackitdown
02-08-2006, 12:22 PM
I have to agree that Toyotas are pretty inferior to Ford. Don't get me wrong, I know they have their place with some people, but not for me, and I'm not a Ford man either. Toyota's torque and hp don't compare well to other trucks on the market. Frankly, my opinion is that the Toyota trucks (Tundra and Tacoma) are car-trucks, trucks for those who like driving a car-like vehicle, yet want a bed out back and, with 4X4, a cool off-road machine. Fords aren't the prettiest out there, but man will they get the job done. We have an old 81 Ford that's been overworked, abused, and beaten to heck, and still works like a truck should.

I agree that the Tundra has a more car-like ride, but I like that. I also like that I get about 17MPG (but lots less when trailering). And I like that I have never missed one day of work with the Toyota, but I missed an average of 2 or 3 days per season with the Fords.

It is smaller, and feels lighter duty. However, it is working well for me.

Smalltimer1
02-08-2006, 12:40 PM
Fleets sell their vehicles at a 100k before any major maitenance has to be done, so they go with the cheapest vehicles they can purchase.

Wrong. The state of NC doesn't sell off until 200k is reached.



I'm waiting for a ford that I personally own to make it to 200k without having its tranny replaced.

Toyota's go to 300-400 all the time.

I'm waiting for a Toyota that can go 100k without rust holes. Most Toyotas that have over 150k on them have had a lot replaced on them to get them that far. Transmissions are usually the first to go on a Toy, ours went at around 120k in the last Camry Pop had.

Sorry Smalltimer, I'll get to your post tommorow, its late.

I'm not worried about that.....I just can't believe so many people get bit by the Toyota bug. I've had them and I wasn't impressed with anything but the mpg's.

The fact that so many people think that Toyotas are invincible is what amuses me. I see them everyday around here burning oil, smoking like a freight train, and less than 5 years old. Some people think they're so damn good they don't have to change the oil in them, so when something happens, they just sell the car and buy another one, those people are almost like sheep....

MTR
02-08-2006, 01:34 PM
Ater nuff said, can anyone explain or go into length, WHY THE TOYOTA, BOTH TACOMA AND TUNDRA " HOLD" THEIR VALUES LIKE PARASITE TO TREES?
It is very common to see 80-100,000 miles '00 Tacoma or Tundra asking $15K plus easily, try this with Ford....never. The other day I saw an '99 F 250 with v8, 5.4 selling for $6500 on ad of local paper...never see that at all with the Toy!

CHRIS MELROSE
02-08-2006, 02:15 PM
Ater nuff said, can anyone explain or go into length, WHY THE TOYOTA, BOTH TACOMA AND TUNDRA " HOLD" THEIR VALUES LIKE PARASITE TO TREES?
It is very common to see 80-100,000 miles '00 Tacoma or Tundra asking $15K plus easily, try this with Ford....never. The other day I saw an '99 F 250 with v8, 5.4 selling for $6500 on ad of local paper...never see that at all with the Toy!

The general consensus is that foreign cars last longer than American. Is this true? I like my ford!

Smalltimer1
02-08-2006, 04:52 PM
The general consensus is that foreign cars last longer than American. Is this true? I like my ford!

It is a big fat myth. I'm sure someone will come up and say how they think such and such foreign car made it a million miles and then there will be another person to say they had an American car go that long, and so it goes on. All in all, short of some small differences, most cars this day in age are pretty dang good, light years ahead of stuff even only 5 years old.

Some of the cars of the past that didn't have such a good reputation such as the Ford Tempo, GM 350 diesel cars and trucks, Chevy Vega and Chrysler's K-cars all cast shadows over the American automakers even though it was just one or 2 models. The gas crunch forced Ford, GM, and Chrysler to make cars with better mpg's and they hadn't ever done that before, and that is what Toyota had been doing all along, so the R&D for the American cars was rushed, and therefore the early American compacts and economy cars weren't that great and as such, that idea was started that all American cars were inferior to Japan.

The Ford Focus however, has been the top compact as far as reliability for the past 4 years IIRC, more reliable than Honda Civics, and more reliable than the Toyota Corolla. The only downfall to it was the side impact crash rating. So to say that the Americans are down and out is a little extreme. Slowly but surely the American mfg's. are earning their reputation back. Ford can't afford to lose any more car share and GM is in even deeper trouble. The truck line is Ford's bread and butter, same goes for GM. Chrysler is in a different position since they are now owned by Mercedes but they aren't in the best of positions either.

lawnboy dan
02-08-2006, 05:08 PM
tha base model tundra is actually cheaper than the f150. at least it was when i bought my tundra in 94. the f150 was all new that year and the price was 2-3 k higher than tundra. i realize few people buy the base model but i wanted a truck to be used actually for work! not status.

lawnboy dan
02-08-2006, 05:12 PM
the reason the ford focus is so good is cause its built from a mazda desighn and parts. america still cant build a good small car with the exception of the original saturn desighn.

treadlite
02-08-2006, 08:10 PM
crash test results are about as accurate as epa ratings for fuel economy.... all manufacturers know how the crash tests are done and engineer their vehicles to do well.....
Gone are the days when engines in any vehicle are "crushed into the cab". Crumple zones apply to vehicles with seperate frames in a marginal way, much different than the unibody vehicles. the tiny sheetmetal frames that toyota puts under their trucks makes them more dangerous to their occupants. Most crashes are not head-on, but side impact,rear end collisions and rollovers where again the smaller frames deform more and offer less protection to the occupants. Toyota cabs tend to seperate from the frame easier and crush eaiser than the big three. Cars and truck behave in very different ways in accidents!!This I know from being there and doing it, not watching it on tv or reading it in magazines.

An oilfield contractor in northern canada tested toyotas. A ford or g.m. would last 18 to24 months before it was considered at the end of it's life. the toyotas lasted an average of 9 months with the longest lasting 12.
The toyotas literally fell apart, had axles and crossmembers destroyed by winching, body parts separating at welds, frames bent and the list goes on.

Most toyotas hold their value better because there are fewer made, their price is fixed at the dealership and most owners never haul or tow anything with them. An f 150 that only hauled soccer balls and cappucino cups to the tennis court would have a better resale value than a work truck too!!

Don't get me wrong, toyota builds excellent cars and small suv's, and you can't knock their fit and finish. The only thing is, some of their cars look exactly like a truck!!

Toy2
02-08-2006, 08:24 PM
The Toy's the best......1996 my truck(Tacoma) is the SR5...loaded, V6 just hit 70K....perfect shape....do a KBB and see what is worth....worth every penny and pulls my stuff....

Dirty Water
02-08-2006, 09:33 PM
What I don't understand is why people buy 1/2 ton trucks in general and put winches etc on them?

1/2 tons are for making a dump run with some garbage, or hauling a load of grass mulch...Maybe towing your 18' ski-boat or something, or a WB mower.

I've never owned a newer toyota, The old 22R powered ones from the '80s would run circles around any American truck of that era...yes they did rust, but at least their paint stayed on (*cough* Ford and GM *cough*)

Honestly, if Toyota came out with a real truck (3/4 ton or bigger) I'd be really interested to see a head to head comparison. As it is, both Ford and Toyota owners who drive 1/2 tons and think they have work trucks need their heads checked.

As far as Foreign car's lasting longer than american cars, its not a myth, its a fact....The Ford Focus that Smalltimer is championing had more recalls in its first year than even the Hyundia's and Kias :D

Smalltimer1
02-08-2006, 11:31 PM
the reason the ford focus is so good is cause its built from a mazda desighn and parts. america still cant build a good small car with the exception of the original saturn desighn.

No, the Focus is a Ford design, Mazda has no part of it except for possibly the manual transmission.

Smalltimer1
02-08-2006, 11:37 PM
As far as Foreign car's lasting longer than american cars, its not a myth, its a fact....The Ford Focus that Smalltimer is championing had more recalls in its first year than even the Hyundia's and Kias :D

It is a myth. Fact: Most Toyotas are junked before 150k--long lasting my ass! The Focus had its first year problems in '99, AS DO ALL FIRST YEAR VEHICLES but from '00 on, it has been a bulletproof car that gets good mileage. The bugs were worked out in that first year.

Toyota trucks do seem to last a long time as trailers though, a good cutting torch and a welder makes a Toyota that much more reliable, even gets better mpg's and you don't even have to pay insurance on it!:cool:

Dirty Water
02-09-2006, 02:11 AM
The newest year Ford Focus is based off the same platform as the excellent Mazda3.

The only thing Ford in that car is the badge and body and automatic tranmission.

Mazda's direct cylinder injection MZR 4-cylinder is revolutionary.

Smalltimer1
02-09-2006, 08:10 AM
The newest year Ford Focus is based off the same platform as the excellent Mazda3.

The only thing Ford in that car is the badge and body and automatic tranmission.

Mazda's direct cylinder injection MZR 4-cylinder is revolutionary.

I thought the Fusion was based on the Mazda 3.

Tyner Lawn Service
02-09-2006, 09:38 AM
The foreign junk they build nowadays is probably OK but I'll stick with my Ford or Chevy trucks. Yes I've seen alot of the so called older foreign cars and trucks broke down along side the road or smoking. It all depends how you treat them. In 1977 my parents bought a new Pinto Cruising Wagon with a V-6 and between them and my 2 sisters they put 220,000 miles in 10 years on it with only a timing belt change. It used no oil. When I pull up along side a foreign pickup and think to myself "thanks alot buddy for selling us out, why don't you go move to Japan!!"

Dirty Water
02-09-2006, 12:06 PM
Tyler, Most foreign cars are built in the US :)