smokers cost money

[Coreyb]

i think i blew a blood vessel today. i don't smoke and hate my guys smoking on the site, but they do. the bigger problem i have is them throwing cig butts on the ground. what kind of smoking/no smoking policies do you guys have. i also don't allow smoking in the trucks. the way i figure, smokers cost me money, about $1,000 per year. can't dig a hole if you got a square in one hand, right.

[HOOLIE]

I agree, in most cases a smoker is your less-productive employee. Heck, I used to smoke, and I know I was less productive back then.

I think smoking on a customer's property is a definite no-no. If they have to smoke, do it off the property, and dispose of the butts properly.

I'm just curious, when you say it costs you $1000 per year, are you talking lost productivity, or what?

[hole in one lco]

well i smoke 2 packs a day cost me 8 bucks and i still have a good amount of money in my savings account

[Coreyb]

I agree, in most cases a smoker is your less-productive employee. Heck, I used to smoke, and I know I was less productive back then.

I think smoking on a customer's property is a definite no-no. If they have to smoke, do it off the property, and dispose of the butts properly.

I'm just curious, when you say it costs you $1000 per year, are you talking lost productivity, or what?


yeah, just rough math. lost productivity to the tune of about $1,000 per year per smoking employee. if i am on site some will work and smoke, but i know if i am not there, there is a little more standing and smoking.

just figure a pack a day (work day) time a 5 miuntes per smoke, that's 50 minutes per day, almost an hour, times 5 days a week is 250 minutes per week (over 4 hours) times let's say just 30 weeks per year is 120 hours at $12 per hour is $1440 per worker.

if you have 5 guys that smoke that's $7200 per year in potential lost time that you are paying for. it can really add up

[HOOLIE]

Yeah a thousand bucks is probably a conservative estimate...definitely most guys are not going to work while they smoke if the boss is not around.

[PMLAWN]

I make it a habit now to check if they smoke at interview. I agree that you will lose money so I try to not hire. Employee handbook says no smoking at job site. They can smoke in the maintenance trucks but if they smoke in my truck they are out.
I feel that the easiest way to look like a bum is to walk around cutting grass with a cig hanging from your mouth. Just my opinion though.

[Green-Pro]

I agree with all but hole in ones statement. Hole in one ya may still have plenty of money but think how much more ya'd have if ya quit payup Heck you'd be like Scrooge McDuck counting his money payup .

Seriously with all the information out there that spells out the health risks, the easier susceptibility to general sickness, the cost, not to mention the tighter regulations on where you may and may not smoke, I just don't get why anyone would want to.
I used to chew years ago when I had less "smats" (smarts) I understand about it being hard to quit but man throwin that crap away and going cold turkey was on of the few (:waving: ) smart things I have done in life.

[hole in one lco]

im trying to get the cycle. iv had 2 open hart surgery's

[makfence]

I agree to all said, pros and cons. I guess if your dead against smoking. Make up a company policy in ref. Stating what you think is fair. Everyone you hire will have to make there on choice. Smoke or work :waving:

[Green-Pro]

im trying to get the cycle. iv had 2 open hart surgery's

Whoa Dude!!! Maybe they can just put a ziper on your chest. JK, I know its not fun I've had 3 close relatives go through that. Yes they do compare scars.

[Coreyb]

hole in one - you're only 30 years old. you might want to consider ordering your new heart now.

[hole in one lco]

hole in one - you're only 30 years old. you might want to consider ordering your new heart now.
its on order iv got one more open heart to go to replace my pig arteries still have a hole in the aorta and pulmonary

[hole in one lco]

Whoa Dude!!! Maybe they can just put a ziper on your chest. JK, I know its not fun I've had 3 close relatives go through that. Yes they do compare scars.
heres a anther sorry got my self a new camera:)

[lpwhandyman]

You're a member of the zipper club.

[hole in one lco]

You're a member of the zipper club.
i was born with heart disease does that make me the president

[nocutting]

i think i blew a blood vessel today. i don't smoke and hate my guys smoking on the site, but they do. the bigger problem i have is them throwing cig butts on the ground. what kind of smoking/no smoking policies do you guys have. i also don't allow smoking in the trucks. the way i figure, smokers cost me money, about $1,000 per year. can't dig a hole if you got a square in one hand, right.
Listen, you're alittle rough, not all smokers break the bank, I can atest that in my younger days, I was always the Top Money Producer in the company I worked for......didnt smoke on property [ at least where anybody could see you, always field strip & pocket my butts]....usally smoke between stops in the truck I was driveing.......always was givein the over-time, production bonus's, safety awards,.........do I think smokeing is good, NO. But not to hire a guy cause hes a smoker is a little course in this day and age.........just a smokers opinion, cough,cough,lol,lol.

[bill w]

I agree with nocutting. If a person is taking breaks, it doesn't matter what the reason. If a person is working slower than others, it doesn't matter what the reason. If a person has a poor safety record, it doesn't matter what the reason. If a person is littering the customers property, it doesn't matter what the reason.

If you are blaming it on smoking, you shouldn't have put yourself in that position.

[Coreyb]

[QUOTE=bill w]I agree with nocutting. If a person is taking breaks, it doesn't matter what the reason. If a person is working slower than others, it doesn't matter what the reason. If a person has a poor safety record, it doesn't matter what the reason. If a person is littering the customers property, it doesn't matter what the reason.

If you are blaming it on smoking, you shouldn't have put yourself in that position.[/QUOTE

Bill, If they're littering butts, it's smokers. if they're breaking to smoke, it's smokers. if they're standing with a shovel in one hand and a smoke in another, it's smokers. I'm not saying all smokers are lazy. a lazy worker is a lazy worker, smoke or not. most of my guys smoke, to be honest, it's hard to find guys that don't. but my experience shows that they cost me more than if i had the same caliber guy that didn't. i would take 10 smokers if they all bust their asses. the reality is that we generally hire young guys (18-22) or so, and most of them smoke. it's the thing to do. add that with the general young man's laziness and this is what i get. merry christmas everyone.

[bill w]

a lazy worker is a lazy worker, smoke or not.



I agree. And I'll raise you a Happy New Year!

[nephilim0167]

I agree with this one. There is a guy that I work with that smokes and I do often find it gets in the way of getting things done timely. I personally don't smoke and will not take a break at all while at a clients house, where he'll usually take at least one. I will give him credit - he does it off their property and usually disposes of the "butts" properly. Still not cool in the truck though. Merry Christmas guys... hope everyone has a good day and better dinner!

Cheers~

[MarcSmith]

when I was a manger for TGLC, we had 6 manager, 3 office staff and one branch manger...

On manager smoked, and the three office girls smoked.....The girls would have to stagger their smoke breaks so there was always someone to cover the phone....and the five minute smoke would turn into 10 minutes.....

I just purchased 14 ashcans (a tick over $2000) for GU....Just one more thing for my guys to pick up....Currently none of my employee's smoke, that I know of.

I had to burry my two grandafthers who wre chain smokers. Hell one of em got fined for smoking in a plane...Hed hed chew nicoette and have a cig in the other hand. and on occassion witht he oxygetn tank in tow and tuber under his nose, her had a smoke going. We had a pool on if he'd blow him self up... before the emphisema(sp) got him....

I came very close to leaving my wife over her smoking....(she did not smoke before we were married) It wasn't until I showed her the ash burns in the rear seats of the car did she realize just how close she came to burning her self up that she quit....

[sheshovel]

I don't think every or any guys on your crew smoke a whole pack a day while at work,when your busy,you smoke much less.
Regardless of that..your employees should have regular break and lunch schedules mandated by law and that is when they should be allowed to smoke.On break or on lunch and that's it.
Nobody else has to pay for their employees habit by production time lost and neither should you.
No employee should be working with a smoke hanging out of their mouth,
no employee should EVER drop a butt on a customers property or any property but their own period.
Sounds to me like you need to lay down the law.
Smoke on break or lunch only.or in bettween jobs.that's it no butts where you have been ever.
And no if ands or butts about it!
I do think your loss #'s are a bit of an exaggeration though.

[MarcSmith]

even if its only 15 minutes a day lost to smoking, It adds up. My problem is the gusy cheating on their brakes. come in 5 early for morning break, come in early for lunch break, and come back to the garage early to wash up...
15 minutes, 20 guys 5 hour each day of lost labor.... x 52 weeks equals 260 hours, 32 days of non production....Learning how to trim this kind of fat is were you can start to see some real finacial gains...every little % helps on the bottom line...

[Green-Pro]

I don't think every or any guys on your crew smoke a whole pack a day while at work,when your busy,you smoke much less.
Regardless of that..your employees should have regular break and lunch schedules mandated by law and that is when they should be allowed to smoke.On break or on lunch and that's it.
Nobody else has to pay for their employees habit by production time lost and neither should you.
No employee should be working with a smoke hanging out of their mouth,
no employee should EVER drop a butt on a customers property or any property but their own period.
Sounds to me like you need to lay down the law.
Smoke on break or lunch only.or in bettween jobs.that's it no butts where you have been ever.
And no if ands or butts about it!
I do think your loss #'s are a bit of an exaggeration though.


I wouldn't be a bit surprised by a smoker going through a pack a day very easily.
Agreed though the break times are the employees time to do as he/she pleases, as long as they are back on the job on time.

I dis agree with this statement Sheshovel, if anything I would question his numbers being on the low side. There are a whole host of other factors that attribute to the "bottom line" other than simply to many or to long of breaks IMHO. Smokers add to your health ins. rate, if you offer a plan to employees, they often use more sick days than non-smoking employees, thereby resulting in higher cost to the employer, probably other cost factors to consider also but, I'm just to burnt out from Christmas to list :waving: Merry Christmas. here are a couple of websites for more info.

http://www.workingsmokefree.com/whygosmokefree/costs.htm

http://www.no-smoke.org/document.php?id=209


Don't get me wrong I'm not one of these rabid anti-smoking radicals, I really don't mind someone smoking as long as its not in the vehicle, and you don't blow smoke at me. Oh and maybe refrain around the gas pumps? LOL

[yrdandgardenhandyman]

Yeah a thousand bucks is probably a conservative estimate...definitely most guys are not going to work while they smoke if the boss is not around.


Don't forget the lost time because of illness that is exacerbated by smoking. When I smoked I got a lot more colds and they were twice as severe.
Yes, quitting was rough. I finally stopped after my 4th try in 20 years. Been nicotene free for 11 years now. I DO feel better.

[Killswitch]

Are fat people next?

People with high cholesterol?

People with children?

People with disabilities?

Left handed people?

People who arent blue eyed and have blonde hair?

[PMLAWN]

Are fat people next?

People with high cholesterol?

People with children?

People with disabilities?

Left handed people?

People who arent blue eyed and have blonde hair?

Care to explain what your point is?

[yrdandgardenhandyman]

Care to explain what your point is?


I 'spect he's one 'o them thar LIB-E-RALS.

[PMLAWN]

even if its only 15 minutes a day lost to smoking, It adds up. My problem is the gusy cheating on their brakes. come in 5 early for morning break, come in early for lunch break, and come back to the garage early to wash up...
15 minutes, 20 guys 5 hour each day of lost labor.... x 52 weeks equals 260 hours, 32 days of non production....Learning how to trim this kind of fat is were you can start to see some real finacial gains...every little % helps on the bottom line...

Yes- on an eight hour day with a hour lunch and 2 15 breaks- that leaves 6.5 hours. 15 min. of that is 4% of the production. Which is almost 1/2 of the profit margin of some companies. Thats big!

[TURFLORD]

I hate smokers. KILL ALL SMOKERS.:realmad:

[muddstopper]

Listen, you're alittle rough, not all smokers break the bank, I can atest that in my younger days, I was always the Top Money Producer in the company I worked for......didnt smoke on property [ at least where anybody could see you, always field strip & pocket my butts]....usally smoke between stops in the truck I was driveing.......always was givein the over-time, production bonus's, safety awards,.........do I think smokeing is good, NO. But not to hire a guy cause hes a smoker is a little course in this day and age.........just a smokers opinion, cough,cough,lol,lol.

And that s where you and I would have a problem if you worked for me. You see, I dont smoke, I cant stand the smell of smoke, I wont stay in the room with a smoker, and I sure as heck dont want my trucks to smell like smoke.

Now I aint one to say a smoker cant smoke, they have the right to kill themselfs if they want, but I strongly feel that the minute they infringe on my right to not breath cigarette smoke, they have got to go. I do my part, if I go into a place of business and the room is smokey, I leave and the store just lost my business because of smokers. If I meet someone, that smells like smoke, I walk away from them. I often wonder if a smoker knows just how bad they stink. I am not pushing everyone to stop smoking, just dont do it around me, and not when I am paying you to work, and not in my trucks. If fact, I will fire a person that smokes inside my truck. The rules are clear and you cant hide the evidence.

[Coreyb]

here's another interesting point. my business also offers others services such as remodeling, handyman services, etc. Last year i got a job painting the interior of a lady's home. after we started she told me my bid was 35% higher than the other guy. but 'he smelled like an ashtray, and i don't like that'. so, that guy lost busniess because of his habit and didn't even know it.

[Killswitch]

Care to explain what your point is?


Yeah. How long is it till you start refusing to hire fat people?

People with children that may need a day off now and then?

They hurt your bottom line too.

[Killswitch]

I 'spect he's one 'o them thar LIB-E-RALS.


And proud of it.

Hey have you Neo Conservative Christian Coalition Patriot Act NSA Spying Republicans found WMD in Iraq yet?

lol

[Killswitch]

And that s where you and I would have a problem if you worked for me. You see, I dont smoke, I cant stand the smell of smoke, I wont stay in the room with a smoker, and I sure as heck dont want my trucks to smell like smoke.

Now I aint one to say a smoker cant smoke, they have the right to kill themselfs if they want, but I strongly feel that the minute they infringe on my right to not breath cigarette smoke, they have got to go. I do my part, if I go into a place of business and the room is smokey, I leave and the store just lost my business because of smokers. If I meet someone, that smells like smoke, I walk away from them. I often wonder if a smoker knows just how bad they stink. I am not pushing everyone to stop smoking, just dont do it around me, and not when I am paying you to work, and not in my trucks. If fact, I will fire a person that smokes inside my truck. The rules are clear and you cant hide the evidence.


Man.....you are soooooo one of the reasons I refuse to work for anyone anymore.

GD.....Zieg Heil dude.

[Dirty Water]

I'm a smoker, that said, I don't smoke while working.

Its rude.

[muddstopper]

Man.....you are soooooo one of the reasons I refuse to work for anyone anymore.

GD.....Zieg Heil dude.

dont worry, if you are as inconsiderate as most of the smokers I have seen, I wouldnt hire you in the first place.

[Killswitch]

I dont work for or with Fascists dude.

[muddstopper]

You get hungry enough, you will lose your attitude and work for anybody that will give you a job. And instead of calling names, it will be yes sir and no sir.

Undoubtedly, you must be a smoker, and by being a smoker you believe you have a right to smoke whenever and where ever you please. As a non smoker, I also believe I have the right to breath smoke free air. I try not to infringe on the smokers right, I do so by not patronizing places that cater to smokers, I avoid conversations with people that are smoking, and I don't tolerate smoking at my house or place of business. Now if that hurts your feelings, to bad. At least I don't have to resort to name calling and other childish acts to make me feel better.

[dsmrolla06]

I dont work for or with Fascists dude.

It sounds to me also like you feel you should be able to smoke wherever you damn well please. I smoked for about a year then i quit. I still smoke one here and there socially but thats it. Even when i smoked i didnt think it was right to be able to make someone sit through it. Smoking is regulated in any job situation, if you think someone is fascist for not wanting you to smoke around a client or ruin their equipment, theres something wrong with you. Another hillbilly at their finest....

[muddstopper]

smokers lung

[muddstopper]

I tried to post these pic but couldnt so heres a link. http://www.presmark.com/htmlfile/pictures.htm

[muddstopper]

Killswitch, this link is for you. Pleas take the time to read it.
http://www.presmark.com/htmlfile/Bryan.htm

[Coreyb]

those pics make me want to vomit... ooops, i almost did. new policy tomorrow, only smoke on breaks and lunch.

[Killswitch]

You get hungry enough, you will lose your attitude and work for anybody that will give you a job. And instead of calling names, it will be yes sir and no sir.

Undoubtedly, you must be a smoker, and by being a smoker you believe you have a right to smoke whenever and where ever you please. As a non smoker, I also believe I have the right to breath smoke free air. I try not to infringe on the smokers right, I do so by not patronizing places that cater to smokers, I avoid conversations with people that are smoking, and I don't tolerate smoking at my house or place of business. Now if that hurts your feelings, to bad. At least I don't have to resort to name calling and other childish acts to make me feel better.

No. You just go on a power trip and place your self righteous self on a pedestal and treat people in a condescending way.

Who do you think I am. Yes sir, no sir? Im not your wife or child.

And neither is anyone who decided to offer you his services temporarily because thats what it is. It isnt....You saving someones soul or changing the world because you were so generous with your 8 dollar an hour positions.

Im just bummed I didnt find a place to fit Bubble Boy into one of my retorts.

Eh well.....maybe sometime.

[Killswitch]

It sounds to me also like you feel you should be able to smoke wherever you damn well please. I smoked for about a year then i quit. I still smoke one here and there socially but thats it. Even when i smoked i didnt think it was right to be able to make someone sit through it. Smoking is regulated in any job situation, if you think someone is fascist for not wanting you to smoke around a client or ruin their equipment, theres something wrong with you. Another hillbilly at their finest....

We cut grass and fertilize lawns einstien. Its not rocket science, and doesnt pay well. If you want to spend time sifting through a bunch of ten dollar an hour employees because they smoke then thats your choice.

Like I said.....whats next? Fat people because they cant walk as fast? Or because they are a heart attack waiting to happen on the clock?

Whatever.....I work alone, make good money, and will never have to work for another "employer"

Thank God.

[Killswitch]

Killswitch, this link is for you. Pleas take the time to read it.
http://www.presmark.com/htmlfile/Bryan.htm

Yesterday it was Iraq!

Today its the Smokers!

Tomorrow...Fat People!

Then....The world is ours!

:blob4:

[Killswitch]

Oh. Enjoy it while you can. Im quite sure Ill be banned from here like I was from plowsite.

lol

[Green-Pro]

my oh my how this thread has degenerated :p

[muddstopper]

No. You just go on a power trip and place your self righteous self on a pedestal and treat people in a condescending way.

Sorry, this is the internet, not exactly someplace you can assert power or authority
Who do you think I am. Yes sir, no sir? I'm not your wife or child.
I think you are a smoker that thinks you have the right to endanger my health and destroy my equipment without me having the right to say no.

And neither is anyone who decided to offer you his services temporarily because thats what it is. It isnt....You saving someones soul or changing the world because you were so generous with your 8 dollar an hour positions.
I pay my employees $10 per hour, I cant help it if you cant make a decent wage, maybe you should quit smoking and then you might be able to get a real job

I'm just bummed I didn't find a place to fit Bubble Boy into one of my retorts.
I am bummed to, you have heard it from many sources but you just cant seem to accept the fact that smoking kills. Not only are you killing yourself, but you think you have the right to kill others around you with your second hand smoke. You are so self righteous that you think the those that don't smoke should have to inhale your smoke and put up with the stinking smell of your smoke infected clothes, and so full of yourself that you don't realize I don't give a flip what you think about me, nor do I care if you smoke yourself to death. You want to smoke, go ahead, but I can guarantee you wont do it in my house or in my equipment.

Eh well.....maybe sometime.


..........

[S man]

Forget not being productive. What your life?

[hole in one lco]

you need us smokers we pay a BIG part of the tax so dont bite the hand that feeds you

[Killswitch]

you need us smokers we pay a BIG part of the tax so dont bite the hand that feeds you

Wait until they tax the hell out of Beer, or doughnuts or Macdonalds.

Then we'll here these self righteous zealots cry like babies.

[muddstopper]

Wait until they tax the hell out of Beer, or doughnuts or Macdonalds.

Then we'll here these self righteous zealots cry like babies.

Since i dont drink beer, am diabetic and dont eat donuts, and dont eat at mickyD's, Tax the heck out of them.

Only one I hear crying here is You and after this post I wont even have to hear that. Its called the ignore feature. Since it is evident that you think the world revolves around you and your opinons and I dont agree with you the simplest solution is to just ignore you. I suggest you put me on ignore as well.

[Killswitch]

lol......

Whatever dude. Since you're all about insulating yourself from evil things....go ahead and put me on iggy.

Im here to exchange thoughts and ideas, and to blow smoke in your face.

:)

[muddstopper]

you need us smokers we pay a BIG part of the tax so dont bite the hand that feeds you


http://money.cnn.com/2002/04/23/news/economy/smoking_tax/

[muddstopper]

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

[PMLAWN]

Are fat people next?

People with high cholesterol?

People with children?

People with disabilities?

Left handed people?

People who arent blue eyed and have blonde hair?

Actually, the job that we are hiring for is labor intensive. If they have a disability that does not allow them to do the job than NO we will not hire them. But it is only based on the ability to do the work. If it does not affect the work or safety than yes, they are still in the running
If they are overweight to the point that they can not do the job, than no they will not be hired, but to be honest I have yet to sit at an interview with a fat guy wanting to walk around all day.
Everyone that works for me now has kids. Do they sometimes takes days off. Sure. But at that point I am not paying them to do a job that is not getting done.
The rest of your questions are just goofy.
I do not have a set rule about smokers, but if they stink when I talk to them I will not hire because of that.
If they want to smoke all night at their house, fine, just not on the job and not in front of or with in smelling or breathing distance of me.

[hole in one lco]

http://money.cnn.com/2002/04/23/news/economy/smoking_tax/
thats got to be the biggest crock of shi6 iv seen

[Killswitch]

Talk to me in 20 years and see how goofy those questions are.

[hole in one lco]

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422
I didn't read this one but i got a feeling im the smart one because i have the filter:) :)

[PMLAWN]

Talk to me in 20 years and see how goofy those questions are.

Again I have to ask to expand you statement as I don't know what 20 years will do.

[yrdandgardenhandyman]

Yesterday it was Iraq!

Today its the Smokers!

Tomorrow...Fat People!

Then....The world is ours!

:blob4:


Listen here young fella. I was your age when I finally quit. Watched my Dad die from cigarette caused cancer. It's not a nice way to go. But if you want to put your loved ones through that, then so be it. It's on your soul. As far as smoking around other people, I don't allow it at all. Not in the truck, not on the clients property, not in the office. You want to smoke you do it on your own time and away from any work site. Haven't had any problems yet with that policy. Yes I have hired fat people. They have worked out well. And, they aren't endangering anyone else with second hand Big Macs. After a couple of years smoke free, you can walk past someones front door and tell they are a smoker from the acrid smell emitted from the house. You just go right on and commit suicide but don't you dare try to take anyone else with you. Especially the children. Speed kills, tobacco kills.

PS Do you also drink and drive? Are you one of those lucky guys who can drive better after a twelve pack than before?

[Killswitch]

Look.

Weve already had the patriot act, and the subsequent extension.

NSA spying on Americans.

Theres an obvious anti smoker campaign going on verbally, physically and through unfair taxation.

In Michigan theres this guy that owns this one large company that fired all its smokers if they didnt quit in a month, tests all current employees and is now going to test the spouses of employees because hes nutzoid about second hand smoke and feels it costs him money.

The guys a fascist, and if you cant see where this country is headed or you dont agree with me then thats fine, but I see this invasion of personal privacy going on the road and coming to a town near you.


Eh....whatever. I do my own thing for myself so the decisions you all make with your businesses is your deal.

Tell me though.

How much hassle is it to find lawn care workers that dont smoke? Ive been in this deal for 25 years and the majority of the guys Ive ever worked with have all smoked. Its that kinda business and fields that class of folks.

I can dig that cigs stink. Bad habit? Sure. Is it that big of a big deal for a guy working ten hours to make a hundred bucks to have a smoke between jobs in the truck, or on the job while mowing away from clients and buildings?

FFS guys......remember who we are, and what we do, and what we deal with, and where we came from.

Smoke em if ya got em I say.

[yrdandgardenhandyman]

you need us smokers we pay a BIG part of the tax so dont bite the hand that feeds you



What about all the medical bills we have to pay for all the smokers who decided to buy tobacco instead of health insurance and all the social security money that goes to the survivors? Oh don't try to make tobacco addiction sound like a windfall for the rest of us.

[yrdandgardenhandyman]

Talk to me in 20 years and see how goofy those questions are.



You know what? I hope you WILL be healthy and happy in 20 years as a smoker. You WILL be in the minority though.

[TURFLORD]

Here's something that hasn't been mentioned yet. Smokers are the worst litterers I've ever seen. Do they even realize what they're doing when they throw the butts out the car window or on the sidewalk? What's the matter? Can't live in your own filth? The first thing an addict will do is make excuses in order to defend their addiction. Driving down the road with a smoker on a Winter day: It's cold in here, roll up the window! NO IT"S NOT! Why is the window open? I need fresh air. ;)

[lpwhandyman]

Yeah, try riding a motorcycle behind a smoker and have them throw their butt out the window at night. Boy that yanks my chain. And I let one of the guys smoke in my second plow truck, thinking I'll never be driving it, well had to fire the driver recently due to him smoking more then just cigarettes and just recently having a rear end accident in my truck, I now am driving the jeep and it reeks of cigarette smoke. God, that is the worst smell. And how do you get rid of that smell? And don't even get me started on second hand smoke. :gunsfirin :gunsfirin :gunsfirin

[muddstopper]

I didn't think I was that I only one that felt the way I do about smoking. It never ceases to amaze me how someone, that knows they are wrong, will continue to argue so hard in defense of what they are doing. Its been known for years the effects of cigarette smoke on the smoker, as well as the people around the smoker. yet instead of quitting the nasty habit, the smoker will try to justify why they should be allowed to smoke. It has taken laws to protect others from the selfishness of the habitual smoker. You would think that the smoker would get tired of having to sit in the corner booth at the restaurant, or having to go outside of the places they do business in, and their own workplace, just to light up a cigarette. It should be much easier to quit. The original post was about the lost productivity of cigarette smoking. As a smoker you don't see it. You don't see stopping at a store to buy a pack of cigarettes as time lost, you don't see the time spent going back to the truck to retrieve your smokes as lost time, you don't see the actual time spent with a cigarette dangling out of you mouth or being held in you hand as lost time. No, smokers are blind to a lot of things, and they get offended when a non-smoker interferes with their "right" to produce a toxic smoke cloud that is not only killing the smoker, but the people that have to put up with them.

hole in one, why didn't you read the link about the effects of second hand smoke. You already know what it says, do you think you can deni that second hand smoke is a problem simply because you refuse to read about it.

Originally Posted by muddstopper
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

[makfence]

Its not my place to judge people,or do I want to, I started smoking when I entered Marine corps boot camp. Back then smoking was more acceptible. About 75 % of the platoon smoked. It was a way to get away from thr DI`s for awhile. I smoked for 27 yrs. quiting 10 years ago. It was hard after all those years but I`m glad I did. I had a heart attack about 4 years ago, and the doctors told me it was a good thing I quite when I did, because I might not have survived if I did`nt. Smoking is such a arguable subject so I`m just going to leave it at that. :nono:

[muddstopper]

makfence, I don't consider it judging a smoker by refusing to let them smoke around me. I call it self-preservation.

[makfence]

makfence, I don't consider it judging a smoker by refusing to let them smoke around me. I call it self-preservation.
Your right. I just ment that it is`nt my place to judge,Seeing is How I used to be a smoker. :waving:

[dsmrolla06]

I guess i never realized that smokers should be givin the authority to choose when and where the smoke... how ignorant of me... Not letting a person smoke has nothing to do with fat people or anything like that. Smoking is a choice, and with that choice comes consequences. Non smokers choose not to smoke and shouldnt be forced to deal with the affects of smoking anyways.

[hole in one lco]

I didn't think I was that I only one that felt the way I do about smoking. It never ceases to amaze me how someone, that knows they are wrong, will continue to argue so hard in defense of what they are doing. Its been known for years the effects of cigarette smoke on the smoker, as well as the people around the smoker. yet instead of quitting the nasty habit, the smoker will try to justify why they should be allowed to smoke. It has taken laws to protect others from the selfishness of the habitual smoker. You would think that the smoker would get tired of having to sit in the corner booth at the restaurant, or having to go outside of the places they do business in, and their own workplace, just to light up a cigarette. It should be much easier to quit. The original post was about the lost productivity of cigarette smoking. As a smoker you don't see it. You don't see stopping at a store to buy a pack of cigarettes as time lost, you don't see the time spent going back to the truck to retrieve your smokes as lost time, you don't see the actual time spent with a cigarette dangling out of you mouth or being held in you hand as lost time. No, smokers are blind to a lot of things, and they get offended when a non-smoker interferes with their "right" to produce a toxic smoke cloud that is not only killing the smoker, but the people that have to put up with them.

hole in one, why didn't you read the link about the effects of second hand smoke. You already know what it says, do you think you can deni that second hand smoke is a problem simply because you refuse to read about it.

Originally Posted by muddstopper
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422
what kind of truck do you drive that stuff coming out of your muffler is more toxic then a cig

[Charles Odell]

kind'a like the peeing section of the swimming pool?:dizzy:
The smoke still over runs the entire place.

[PMLAWN]

kind'a like the peeing section of the swimming pool?:dizzy:
The smoke still over runs the entire place.

Tip for the day--- Never pee against the tide!

[muddstopper]

what kind of truck do you drive that stuff coming out of your muffler is more toxic then a cig


So now two wrongs makes a right. Give it up, you cant justify endangering your health and the health of those around you, simply because you like to smoke. I will park my trucks as soon as I have an alternative. You already have an alternative to smoking, all you have to do is stop.

[Branchland]

I smoke on the job sight. It don't slow me down. A person can do two things at the same time. I tell employees to not smoke in the truck, in front of customers and take the butts with them. I come home everyday with butts in my pocket. I don't smoke in front of the customer even if they fire one up.

[hole in one lco]

So now two wrongs makes a right. Give it up, you cant justify endangering your health and the health of those around you, simply because you like to smoke. I will park my trucks as soon as I have an alternative. You already have an alternative to smoking, all you have to do is stop.
you can run 21 in the back of you hybrid car or are you still driving gas vehicles. So you can pollute but i cant right. I will smoke where ever i want............. because its my right

[yrdandgardenhandyman]

I guess i never realized that smokers should be givin the authority to choose when and where the smoke... how ignorant of me... Not letting a person smoke has nothing to do with fat people or anything like that. Smoking is a choice, and with that choice comes consequences. Non smokers choose not to smoke and shouldnt be forced to deal with the affects of smoking anyways.



The worst thing to do is to rag on a smoker that he should quit. Just makes 'em dig their heels in deeper. The best way is to simply outlaw smoking in areas where other people may be affected. They want to smoke, let 'em smoke at home or in a big open field. Of course then you might have to deal with a few grass fires.
By the way, in most matters I am considered one hell of a big LIB-E-RAL.

[muddstopper]

you can run 21 in the back of you hybrid car or are you still driving gas vehicles. So you can pollute but i cant right. I will smoke where ever i want............. because its my right

Wrong, its not your right to smoke where ever you want to. Thats why laws have been passed to restrict where you can light up. Quit grasping at straws, no matter how hard you try, you cant justify indangering your health or the health of others around you. If you want to smoke go ahead, but you can't do it around my home, or my business. I have rights to.

Are you running 21 in the back of you hybrid car or are you still driving gas vehicles

[hole in one lco]

Wrong, its not your right to smoke where ever you want to. Thats why laws have been passed to restrict where you can light up. Quit grasping at straws, no matter how hard you try, you cant justify indangering your health or the health of others around you. If you want to smoke go ahead, but you can't do it around my home, or my business. I have rights to.

Are you running 21 in the back of you hybrid car or are you still driving gas vehicles
no i dont run 21 i run 1 ford f350 1ford f250 and chevy 1500 but im not the one complaining about toxins. you have the right to do what you want thats the beautiful thing about this country.

[yrdandgardenhandyman]

you have the right to do what you want thats the beautiful thing about this country.


Until it interferes with the rights of others and is harmful to the public at large.

[dsmrolla06]

you can run 21 in the back of you hybrid car or are you still driving gas vehicles. So you can pollute but i cant right. I will smoke where ever i want............. because its my right


How is he polluting and not you for not driving a hybrid? Your not driving one either... You are extremely ignorant and misinformed about a citizens rights. Your statement is like saying, well people shoot guns, "ill shoot them wherever i want, i mean it is my right to bear arms..." I must say im extremely sick of people thinking because they live in america they can do whatever the want. I guess i dont understand why anyone needs a cigarrette that bad that they cant smoke on a break or on lunch. But i guess those people are just emotional weak.

[hole in one lco]

How is he polluting and not you for not driving a hybrid? Your not driving one either... You are extremely ignorant and misinformed about a citizens rights. Your statement is like saying, well people shoot guns, "ill shoot them wherever i want, i mean it is my right to bear arms..." I must say im extremely sick of people thinking because they live in america they can do whatever the want. I guess i dont understand why anyone needs a cigarrette that bad that they cant smoke on a break or on lunch. But i guess those people are just emotional weak.
IM NOT THE ONE :cry: :cry: :cry: ABOUT POLLUTION

[Coreyb]

i'm glad to see this thread getting so much attention but it's definately gotten off on a tangent. the whole purpose was to lay out what a smoking employee costs an employer. not ALL smokers will fall into this category, but most will. NO ONE is going to change their minds here. smokers will defend their habit, and non smokers, or in some cases, smoker haters, will defend theirs.

however, when a smoker that tells me he can work and smoke at the same time, i seriously doubt it. like i said before, a new policy started today. NO SMOKING ON THE CLOCK. take it or leave it. i'm the boss, i sign the checks, and that's the way it is. if you love your smokes that much, see ya. i'm not changing my mind. why? because i don't have to.

[Killswitch]

however, when a smoker that tells me he can work and smoke at the same time, i seriously doubt it. like i said before, a new policy started today. NO SMOKING ON THE CLOCK. take it or leave it. i'm the boss, i sign the checks, and that's the way it is. if you love your smokes that much, see ya. i'm not changing my mind. why? because i don't have to.

Zieg Heil....:rolleyes:

[hole in one lco]

i'm glad to see this thread getting so much attention but it's definately gotten off on a tangent. the whole purpose was to lay out what a smoking employee costs an employer. not ALL smokers will fall into this category, but most will. NO ONE is going to change their minds here. smokers will defend their habit, and non smokers, or in some cases, smoker haters, will defend theirs.

however, when a smoker that tells me he can work and smoke at the same time, i seriously doubt it. like i said before, a new policy started today. NO SMOKING ON THE CLOCK. take it or leave it. i'm the boss, i sign the checks, and that's the way it is. if you love your smokes that much, see ya. i'm not changing my mind. why? because i don't have to.
Thats why we own or own business so we can make the rule right

[dsmrolla06]

IM NOT THE ONE :cry: :cry: :cry: ABOUT POLLUTION

I guess i dont really remember stating something about pollution. You guys are fighting a losing battle. Smokers should not be allowed to smoke in public. Period. Smoking is a blue collar habit, and you guys so adamently fighting for it probly arent much above one. Now smoking is fine in certain environments, but to force it upon people is just rude and inconsiderate. It just amazes me how hard you are trying to justify this habit. This is not an oppinion coming from someone who hates smokers and has never smoked. I smoke for about a year and still smoke socially, but i believe it is wrong to be able to just smoke whereever and whenever you want to.

[yrdandgardenhandyman]

Zieg Heil....:rolleyes:


Noone is going to make you work for him.:gunsfirin
You are willing to die in order to prove you have the right to use tobacco to kill yourself and damage other peoples health? That's a bit strange but, well, to each his own. :dizzy: That's what Al Queda does. Zieg Heil you twisted little martyr. :sleeping:


I've got to get out of this thread. It's giving me a headache.

[hole in one lco]

I guess i dont really remember stating something about pollution. You guys are fighting a losing battle. Smokers should not be allowed to smoke in public. Period. Smoking is a blue collar habit, and you guys so adamently fighting for it probly arent much above one. Now smoking is fine in certain environments, but to force it upon people is just rude and inconsiderate. It just amazes me how hard you are trying to justify this habit. This is not an oppinion coming from someone who hates smokers and has never smoked. I smoke for about a year and still smoke socially, but i believe it is wrong to be able to just smoke whereever and whenever you want to.

blue collar is what i grue up as so are you insulting my parent?

[hole in one lco]

:) :) Noone is going to make you work for him.:gunsfirin
You are willing to die in order to prove you have the right to use tobacco to kill yourself and damage other peoples health? That's a bit strange but, well, to each his own. :dizzy: That's what Al Queda does. Zieg Heil you twisted little martyr. :sleeping:


I've got to get out of this thread. It's giving me a headache.
have a smoke it'll calm your nerves:) :) :) :)

[TURFLORD]

Smoking is a blue collar habit, and you guys so adamently fighting for it probly arent much above one.
What the hell is this supposed to mean?:confused:

[MarcSmith]

My grandfather(shrimper) on my dads side died about 10 years ago. He was on oxygen, he had a O2 generator a home, a nebulizer...He Died...He smoked.....My grandfather (owner of a Cadillac Buick Pontiac GMC Dealership) was on oxygen, had an 02 generator he could travel with, nebulaizer. He died December 23 2004. My uncle on my moms side, who now owns the dealership, who has been a chain smoker his whole life, until he had to go into the hospital and have stints put in his blood vessels has finally given up smoking. He also banned smoking inside the dealership. He has has offered financial help to those who wish to quit who work for him....

Smoking does not discriminate against race, religion, or income. YOU WILL DIE, but before you die, you will cost your family thousands of dollars in medical bills as your try to prolong your life....But you will have also spent thousnds of dollars for your habit... Let say a pack of smokes is 2 bucks. you smoke a pack a day. thats 712 bucks per year. Now lets say you smoke for 30 years....$21,000....That would buy a nice new mower and a few blowers....

I had the chance to see the Bodies Exhibit in Tampa(it travels around). If you get the chance to see this, please do so http://www.bodiestheexhibition.com/

I got to see the insides of a dead smoker up close.....take your finger and rub it around the inside of a diesel exhaust stack. then take a look at it....and imagine that inside your lungs....

You can smoke on my property, but not under my roof....Zieg Heil...My house my rules....Love it or leave it....

http://www.smokerslungs.com/

[MarcSmith]

I got the media site, which has some pics of the exhibit...

http://www.bodiestheexhibition.com/media_access.asp?id=7726166338334

[muddstopper]

Thats why we own or own business so we can make the rule right


Exactly, You run your business and i will run mine, we both make the rules about how employees will conduct themselfs while on the clock. I choose to work in a smoke free enviroment, you dont. Our choice, our decision. Since we are the ones writting the paychecks our employees will honor our wishes or they wont work for us.

We now have 10 pages of arguments simply because I said I wouldnt let someone smoke in my truck. I am not going to change your mind and get you to stop smoking, and you certainly are not going to convince me that there is nothing wrong with smoking. Nowhere have I even come close to telling you to stop smoking, I have pointed out why I dont like smoking, and posted links to sites that tell of the dangers of smoking, but I havent told you to stop smoking. On the other hand, at every turn you have shown that you would smoke around me with little concern for my health or well being. That my friend is where the problem with addicted smokers lay's. The total lack of respect for others that share this world with them. You want to compare my vehicle exhaust to your smoking habit, the comparison is only in your mind, but if it makes you feel better about your habit, keep using that example to justify your smoking habit. I can just hear it now. Your car pollutes so its ok for me to smoke., Your cows give off methane gas, so its alright for me to smoke. A bear sh@ts in the woods so its alright for me to smoke.

[dsmrolla06]

What the hell is this supposed to mean?:confused:

Stereotypically smoking is a low class habit. My father is blue collar worker and has been from out of college. There was no insult intended by what was said. When i mentioned you are not much above one, you are business owner and should act like it. You sound like you run your business however you think it should go, dont really care about anyone else while your doing it. I see so many people run their lawn business more like a job than a business. Of course you guys are so dense you cant even see the other side of an argument. I see where you guys are coming from, i just think you are completely ignorant.

[Killswitch]

Stereotypically smoking is a low class habit. My father is blue collar worker and has been from out of college. There was no insult intended by what was said. When i mentioned you are not much above one, you are business owner and should act like it. You sound like you run your business however you think it should go, dont really care about anyone else while your doing it. I see so many people run their lawn business more like a job than a business. Of course you guys are so dense you cant even see the other side of an argument. I see where you guys are coming from, i just think you are completely ignorant.


Hey dont look now Uncle fester but everyone but you looks at you, and I like we are lawn jockeys. No matter what you do, fertilizing, landscaping, or maintenance the general public always has and always will look at us as servents, and less than them. I dont care if you have the trick equipment, or the uniforms or what not.....

We cut grass. We install rocks, or we lay down the same fertilizer any homeowner can get himself at wal mart.

You need to take a long look in the mirror and say hello to blue collar.

[Killswitch]

Now that being said.

Im proud as hell to be Blue Collar, to the point of wearing it like a badge of honor.

[Soupy]

hole in one, why didn't you read the link about the effects of second hand smoke. You already know what it says, do you think you can deni that second hand smoke is a problem simply because you refuse to read about it.

Originally Posted by muddstopper
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

I was watching CSpan one night and Dr Chriton (sp) was on talking with a bunch of students and the question of second hand smoke came up. He said that there is no proof that second hand smoke is dangerous and the ones saying it is are not performing un-biased test.

He did say that he was a non smoker and does think it is a nasty habit and people should be considerate of others because it stinks etc (he does not like it). But he was not going to lie and say it causes health risk. He mentioned that it doesn't mean someday they won't prove it, but in his eyes they just haven't been able too.

None the less I think the argument of auto pollutants etc are just as fair. And someone with a hybrid will argue with you that you are killing them. It is no different except the guy driving the hybrid has more right to complain because he probably doesn't smoke either and actually means what he says. He isn't being hypocritical.

I'm not taking sides, I agree that if you don't like smoking and you think it effects your bottom line then you have the right to not hire smokers. I also agree that it stinks, and is a nasty habit (there are many nasty habits in this world) But don't try and preach how smokers are killing you by polluting the air, and then try to justify why it is Ok for you to.

[TforTexas]

Look.

Weve already had the patriot act, and the subsequent extension.

NSA spying on Americans.

Theres an obvious anti smoker campaign going on verbally, physically and through unfair taxation.

In Michigan theres this guy that owns this one large company that fired all its smokers if they didnt quit in a month, tests all current employees and is now going to test the spouses of employees because hes nutzoid about second hand smoke and feels it costs him money.

The guys a fascist, and if you cant see where this country is headed or you dont agree with me then thats fine, but I see this invasion of personal privacy going on the road and coming to a town near you.


Eh....whatever. I do my own thing for myself so the decisions you all make with your businesses is your deal.

Tell me though.

How much hassle is it to find lawn care workers that dont smoke? Ive been in this deal for 25 years and the majority of the guys Ive ever worked with have all smoked. Its that kinda business and fields that class of folks.

I can dig that cigs stink. Bad habit? Sure. Is it that big of a big deal for a guy working ten hours to make a hundred bucks to have a smoke between jobs in the truck, or on the job while mowing away from clients and buildings?

FFS guys......remember who we are, and what we do, and what we deal with, and where we came from.

Smoke em if ya got em I say.
What "class" of folks is that? Are you differentiating class between smokers and non smokers. If so please define. Who is the higher class?

[muddstopper]

Soupy, I don't have a Dr. before my name, but for anyone to say second hand smoke isn't harmful is irresponsible. I don't need a doctor to tell me why that when I walk into a room full of cigarette smoke that I get nauseated. Or if I am around someone that smokes, why I get a sore throat and cough. I don't know what kind of doctor Mr./Mrs. Chriton is, but I don't think I want them treating me. And I dont see where I am justifying why it is ok for me to pollute. Its not Ok for me to pollute anymore than it is for the next person. The fact is, I would gladly give up driving my automobile if I knew of another means to get me where I am going. I guess now you are going to propose I ride a horse to work. Of course i could quit work and let welfare keep me and my family up. I wouldnt have to drive then and I could even get free health care.

[dsmrolla06]

Hey dont look now Uncle fester but everyone but you looks at you, and I like we are lawn jockeys. No matter what you do, fertilizing, landscaping, or maintenance the general public always has and always will look at us as servents, and less than them. I dont care if you have the trick equipment, or the uniforms or what not.....

We cut grass. We install rocks, or we lay down the same fertilizer any homeowner can get himself at wal mart.

You need to take a long look in the mirror and say hello to blue collar.

I think you need to speak for yourself when you call someone that owns and runs a lawn care business blue collar...

You being solo, as i believe you stated, correct me if im wrong, dont do much of anything but physical labor, so yes that would be considered more blue collar. I however am trying to take lawn care much further to actually be ran by a business. I manage employees, do office work, marketing etc. I attend chamber functions, toastmasters, rotary, dress up, look nice, and associate with other business professionals. I have a hard time seeing as how this is anything remotely blue collar, and i believe theres several guys on here that dont see them as doing blue collar work.

[Killswitch]

Great. Well while you're having tea and crumpets socializing with Muffy, Ill be working my ass off and Im fine with it because Ive seen all sides of this industry and my M.O. isnt to get the key to the city, or to open a chain of fast food lawn care franchises, and go to work in dockers and dress shoes

Im more than happy to net 75-100 a year working alone without all the hassles and I hate tea and crumpets anyways.

[dsmrolla06]

Thats completely fine, i have no problem with that. There are many people that enjoy hard work, im just not one of them. So if you would like to stay that way by all means go ahead, i have nothing against it. Dont be quick to judge every one else out there in the same industry as the same as you though.

[JLL25]

i think i blew a blood vessel today. i don't smoke and hate my guys smoking on the site, but they do. the bigger problem i have is them throwing cig butts on the ground. what kind of smoking/no smoking policies do you guys have. i also don't allow smoking in the trucks. the way i figure, smokers cost me money, about $1,000 per year. can't dig a hole if you got a square in one hand, right.


I completely agree:mad:
I absolutely hate it when I am working and I see a guy puffing on a cigarette, and they say to me "hey man we cant all keep up with you, gotta take a break sometime".
Worst time ever that still sticks in my head is early this year we were at a job site trimming trees and i'm 30 feet in the air in a lift and I look down towards our dump truck and on the opposite side of the truck theres this guy knelt down hiding by the front tire and he's sucking on a smoke, OH MY GOD I COULD'VE THROWN THE DAMN CHAINSAW AT HIM!!!

[Killswitch]

You guys are silly.

[Soupy]

Soupy, I don't have a Dr. before my name, but for anyone to say second hand smoke isn't harmful is irresponsible. I don't need a doctor to tell me why that when I walk into a room full of cigarette smoke that I get nauseated. Or if I am around someone that smokes, why I get a sore throat and cough. I don't know what kind of doctor Mr./Mrs. Chriton is, but I don't think I want them treating me. And I dont see where I am justifying why it is ok for me to pollute. Its not Ok for me to pollute anymore than it is for the next person. The fact is, I would gladly give up driving my automobile if I knew of another means to get me where I am going. I guess now you are going to propose I ride a horse to work. Of course i could quit work and let welfare keep me and my family up. I wouldnt have to drive then and I could even get free health care.


Dr Chriton is an Author and creator of the series ER. I was just posting what he said right on C-Span and he did make sense. Especially since he said he avoids restaurants that allow smoking etc, but wanted to be truthful on the matter.

Anyway, my whole point was you are preaching your belief and trying to back it up by saying smoking pollutes the air. But it is Ok for you to pollute the air when it is convenient for you to do so. I bet you have even burned a pile of leaves before. A person that is truly concerned for clean air would not do that. Me, I could care less and drive my Diesel truck everyday polluting away.

I Just wanted to give you my opinion of your argument.

I will let you have last word. I'm not hear to argue.

[TURFLORD]

Stereotypically smoking is a low class habit. My father is blue collar worker and has been from out of college. There was no insult intended by what was said. When i mentioned you are not much above one, you are business owner and should act like it. You sound like you run your business however you think it should go, dont really care about anyone else while your doing it. I see so many people run their lawn business more like a job than a business. Of course you guys are so dense you cant even see the other side of an argument. I see where you guys are coming from, i just think you are completely ignorant.
This post raises even more questions. Are you insinuating that I, personally, don't have respect for my own business? Your Bio says you're 18 and in Biz 1 yr. Is this true? Your posts are sounding very egotistical. Please clarify so I don't have to flame you into utter humility.:cool:

[muddstopper]

Soupy, the only thing I am preaching is that it is my right to not have to breath someone elses cigarette smoke. And I do so by not allowing someone to smoke inside "MY TRUCK'S, MY HOME, AND MY BUSINESS" Those that have wished to continue this discussion think I am fascist, self righteous and I forget some of the other things said. They, and you are insinuating that I am being hypocritical because I drive my automobile which causes pollution also. That comparison only makes sense if you are a smoker. Two wrongs don't make a right. Which is worse. Me driving my truck or a smoker driving theirs.

Just for info, the adverage life of a doctor is only 50-something years of age. Everybody else lives longer. Makes you wonder just how smart those doctors really are.

[dsmrolla06]

This post raises even more questions. Are you insinuating that I, personally, don't have respect for my own business? Your Bio says you're 18 and in Biz 1 yr. Is this true? Your posts are sounding very egotistical. Please clarify so I don't have to flame you into utter humility.:cool:

Just becuase you smoke doesnt mean you dont have respect for your business. Killswitch and the other guy arguing the point stated they dont care if they smoke on someones property, blow smoke in their faces, smoke in someone elses truck, throw butts on the ground. Thats not a lack of respect for your business, thats a lack of respect for people. Yes i am 18, and have done this for a year. I wouldnt go as far as calling it egotistical, but i will go as far as saying im not a blue collar laborer.

[Killswitch]

Just becuase you smoke doesnt mean you dont have respect for your business. Killswitch and the other guy arguing the point stated they dont care if they smoke on someones property, blow smoke in their faces, smoke in someone elses truck, throw butts on the ground. Thats not a lack of respect for your business, thats a lack of respect for people. Yes i am 18, and have done this for a year. I wouldnt go as far as calling it egotistical, but i will go as far as saying im not a blue collar laborer.

Hold up.

I never said any of those things DS. Im a considerate smoker. I only smoke where and when its appropriate (in my opinion) to do so.

I also have to laugh at the fact that we are even discussing whether lawn care workers or owners are blue collar.

Just because you pay PLCCA 100 a year for stickers or a worthless magazine or if you drive Hummers towing your mowers, you are still blue collar.

There was a time people would be proud of the fact like me.

I dunno......Maybe this all has to do with a lot of ex white collar workers are now mowing grass because they lost their jobs and are having a hard time reconcilling the fact that they are what they are.

No matter what you think. Wheter you smoke or your guys smoke or not, the general public knows you are blue collar so what you think matters not.

[dsmrolla06]

Maybe you didnt say those things, but you implied it with the attitude you had surrounding the conversation. For myself, i am working hard not to have to do any of the labor work for next year. Granted that may not happen, but i would like it it to in the near future. I dont plan on doing lawn care the rest of my life, i see it as more of a starting point. Maybe our perspective on blue collar is a little different. To me blue collar is working in a factory, doing what your told, and not making any decisions for yourself. Hell you own your own business, id say thats a big step above blue collar. Go compare yourself to a factory worker and see who has the more self satisfying job.

[MarcSmith]

Maybe you didnt say those things, but you implied it with the attitude you had surrounding the conversation. For myself, i am working hard not to have to do any of the labor work for next year. Granted that may not happen, but i would like it it to in the near future. I dont plan on doing lawn care the rest of my life, i see it as more of a starting point. Maybe our perspective on blue collar is a little different. To me blue collar is working in a factory, doing what your told, and not making any decisions for yourself. Hell you own your own business, id say thats a big step above blue collar. Go compare yourself to a factory worker and see who has the more self satisfying job.


I guess it all depends on the factory.... Personally I felt very Blue Collar when I was doing the labor. But at the end of each month and while doing paperwork It was white collar....

[Green-Pro]

I guess it all depends on the factory.... Personally I felt very Blue Collar when I was doing the labor. But at the end of each month and while doing paperwork It was white collar....


Well said.....

[JLL25]

Exactly, white collar work is white collar work and the same for blue collar. Just because you own a blue collar business doesnt mean you are a blue collar worker. If you are an owner/operator then cant we all agree that you are blue collar??? I mean if you go out hauling a trailer or what have you that is blue collar. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being blue collar in my opinion(and I am very blue collar.)
Our "collar color" is governed by how we make a living, no matter how much we make. If you are laboring, even if you are also telling others how to labor, then you are blue collar like it or not.

And the smoking thing, I think all smoking should be banned period. With all the additives laced into cigarettes, then released into PUBLIC air it is just wrong. Until someone invents a way to eliminate second hand smoke, or a way for the person smoking to ingest ALL of what they are sucking in it should be illegal.

"There are 4,000 chemicals in every cigarette," Reichert tells WebMD. "People smoke because they are addicted to the nicotine, but they are getting 3,999 other chemicals, too. Two hundred of those chemicals are poisonous and 43 are known carcinogens."

Is it fair that hundreds of millions of people are allowed to pollute the atmosphere with their own bad habit? I think not.

[TURFLORD]

Just becuase you smoke doesnt mean you dont have respect for your business.
Scroll back through the thread. I did some posts which will plainly state that I don't smoke, espescially the first page. Be careful with that attitude of yours. Your 18. Your employee base will most likely be from your own peer group, or even people older that yourself. Either way the employees will be adversely afftected by a teenager who considers physical labor to be beneath him. Somethings only come with age. This is not meant to be a rip. And just to stay on thread, KILL ALL SMOKERS.:realmad:

[dsmrolla06]

Scroll back through the thread. I did some posts which will plainly state that I don't smoke, espescially the first page. Be careful with that attitude of yours. Your 18. Your employee base will most likely be from your own peer group, or even people older that yourself. Either way the employees will be adversely afftected by a teenager who considers physical labor to be beneath him. Somethings only come with age. This is not meant to be a rip. And just to stay on thread, KILL ALL SMOKERS.:realmad:

Your right, the hardest thing i have faced is talking to people 20,30, even 40 years older than me. Im doing things to improve myself, such as joining toastmaster to learn how to speak better. Now i never said that it is beneath, i clearly stated that i may just be doing a portion of it next year, and i did it all myself last year. Im not afraid to do physical labor, i just believe i can use my time more efficiently doing other things. I think it would be a waste of my abilities to spend the rest of my life doing labor. As a teacher of mine once said, "there has to be ditch diggers in this world too."

[PMLAWN]

Ok, I need all youall's opinion.
Is it proper to fart in public. And than does volume matter???

[Killswitch]

Stop Second Hand Methane!

:nono: lol.....

[JLL25]

Ok, I need all youall's opinion.
Is it proper to fart in public. And than does volume matter???

Depends on what you ate most of that day...dairy or whole grains. If it was dairy then I say....:nono:

[MarcSmith]

Ok, I need all youall's opinion.
Is it proper to fart in public. And than does volume matter???

sure, just not in an elevator, unless you plan on exiting on the next floor....or you can pin it on someone else.....:) But don't mind me, my farts smell like roses......

[Branchland]

Ok, I need all youall's opinion.
Is it proper to fart in public. And than does volume matter???


Don't know a proper but I sure do it :p

[yrdandgardenhandyman]

Ok, I need all youall's opinion.
Is it proper to fart in public. And than does volume matter???



Sure. I just turn the headphone volume up.

[Littleriver1]

Ok, I need all youall's opinion.
Is it proper to fart in public. And than does volume matter???
When you say volume, do you mean in odor, sound or amount of gas in parts per million? They smell that way so deaf people can enjoy them too.

[TURFLORD]

Just let this poor thread die already.:blob2:

[Killswitch]

Get the thread hooked on cigarettes, and kill it that way.

I hear theyre deadly.

Tedly.

[hole in one lco]

Lmao:) :) :)