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View Full Version : How to make a sealer spray unit (275g)


keepoffthegrass
12-24-2005, 11:41 AM
Hi, was looking into buy a unit from star seal but was turned off when i started figuring out the shipping and what it would take to get it across the border into canada. paper work etc.

I have decide to build my own. What im looking for is a parts list and maybe some one can fill me in on what kind of pump i need and size of hoses/fittings etc. This would be very appreciated.

DJ Contracting, I noticed you have made the same thing but i was unable to PM you about it. maybe you can answer some of my questions.

Below is a picture of what I would like to build.
Thank you all so much.


Could not get pictures to work, here is the site.
http://www.starsealofohio.com/catalog/sealcoat-rig.html

keepoffthegrass
12-24-2005, 11:43 AM
Dam, I have been researching that unit and I have herd nothing but BAD things about it. Speed, Clogs, Water needed to dilute mix, etc. Anyone have anything good to say about this unit?

gslawncare
12-26-2005, 01:07 AM
I know being cheap is the key to success but if you plan to use any catalyst(dryer) or silica, this tank is the worst. If you don't constantly turn and agitate the entire contents you'll get dry sealer in the corners etc.
PS. polyethalene(plastic) is not suitable for open road use. These tanks are used in vans. The walls are sometimes not thick enough and CAN? break, distort etc.
This apparatus is not suitable for sealcoating. Most of the THEIF-TIME gypsies use these tanks becuase they cost about $40 at the right store.
Save your money and buy a a real steel tank.

As far as the pump go on ebay. It's called a Diaphram pump and takes a compressor and about 6 HP engine.

DJ Contracting
12-29-2005, 12:49 AM
Keepoffthegrass The unit that you are looking at will work for you if your looking to get into the business, from experience the unit should last you two or three seasons with changing the pump diaphragm once, cost to put one together if you can find a tank for under $100.00 should be around $700.00 - $800.00. I bought the pump (Inteck transfer pump 5.5 hp) for $239.95 @ Tractor supply. The green hoses that are shown in the picture can also be bought @ TSC, i used 3/4 hose and also built my spray wand out of 3/4 gal.pipe. to make this short i belive i bought just about everything @ TSC and Homedepot. In the short time (Sept.and Oct) that i used it i made just shy of 10 grand so i'm looking for a good year next season, remember this unit will make you enough money to buy the commercial if you continue in the business, good luck. Joe

joeE
01-03-2006, 02:00 PM
Kgrass
I have seen those pumps used for transfer (no sand) but not for spraying.
The psi will be lower, youll be walking slower. I think that is a impeller not a
diaphragm pump. 1-4 lbs of sand per gal will put some serious wear on the
impeller & housing. As the clearence between the two incresses, preformance will drop rapidly. Hose lenght will be limited. I dought it will even
spray a heavy sand load. My Graco diaphragm pump just finished its 6th
season with zero problems.
Thick sealer + 3lbs of sand per = a long lasting job with an antislip surface.
Time has shown us the only way to mix thick sealer is a steel shaft,arms and
rubber wipers. A recirculating system will not mix thick sealer correctly.
A square tank (agine time tested) wont work for thick sealer.

Just my 2 cents. Hope it was helpful to you.

Oh, you wanted to hear somthing good about it........a.......it sure looks nice.

keepoffthegrass
01-25-2006, 09:13 PM
Keepoffthegrass The unit that you are looking at will work for you if your looking to get into the business, from experience the unit should last you two or three seasons with changing the pump diaphragm once, cost to put one together if you can find a tank for under $100.00 should be around $700.00 - $800.00. I bought the pump (Inteck transfer pump 5.5 hp) for $239.95 @ Tractor supply. The green hoses that are shown in the picture can also be bought @ TSC, i used 3/4 hose and also built my spray wand out of 3/4 gal.pipe. to make this short i belive i bought just about everything @ TSC and Homedepot. In the short time (Sept.and Oct) that i used it i made just shy of 10 grand so i'm looking for a good year next season, remember this unit will make you enough money to buy the commercial if you continue in the business, good luck. Joe


THANKS DJ, now that spring is near i will probably be asking you alot of questions as i piece this thing together! Good luck on growing your bus.payup payup payup

keepoffthegrass
01-25-2006, 09:41 PM
Dj, how long of a spray hose can you use with your setup? Thanks --------Korey

DJ Contracting
01-31-2006, 09:26 AM
I have fifty foot of 3/4 inch hose

PPClockworks
03-08-2006, 05:57 PM
I bought one of these units 4 years ago. It paid for itself in a month. Then if has just been profit since then. It added a whole new dimension to my business. Most all my mowing customers have me sealcoat the driveway in the spring. Best investment I have ever made. I don't know why people cut it down it does a great job and I can do a normal 2X2 driveway in 30 minutes. I think it is because they feel you have to pay alot of money to get the same quality they do. And before you ask I use 2 pounds of sand per gallon and 1 gallon of tarmax. Never had a minutes trouble with it spraying fourth year on my motor, but I think I am going to have to call StarSeal this year for a new motor.

Don't let everyone talk you out of trying this it really does work!!


Here guys I will post this for you too.

DJ Contracting
03-24-2006, 04:02 PM
joeE can that Graco pump work with the set-up that I have and where did you get it from, just wondering for my next set-up.
Thanks
Joe

SealAndCoat
03-25-2006, 11:31 AM
If you insist on building your own unit, get a 2” Wilden air-operated, dual-diaphragm pump.

However, you will most likely spend the same amount (plus your time and effort) in building your own unit versus just buying a professional seal coating unit. I mean by building a real, professional unit with a round tank and hydraulic agitation, not one of those plastic totes with a trash pump setups people on this forum seem to worship.

EVERY high-quality sealer requires some sand. Even stuff at home depot sold in buckets has some sand. The pump on those plastic tote setups are cheap trash pumps designed for pumping water from flooded basements and things like that. They are not designed to transfer and apply the heavy sand loads a professional sealer mix should contain.

joeE
03-25-2006, 02:50 PM
DJ
If your talking about using a graco with a sq tank, you still will not be able to get your mix to where it needs to be. It would work, but you will not get the full benefit without a steel tank w/ agi.
Go to www.graco.com
Entry level is a #1040 is a 1" in/outlet, pumps 1 qt per cycle. I would suggest going up to #1590 for a few bucks extra. It is a 1 1/2" in/out and pumps 1/2 gal per cycle. I have had good luck with Hytrel balls & seats.
Since I was broke when I started, I HAD to build most of my equipment so I guess I disagree with sealandcoat on that matter. Iam still wishing I could afford to buy a seal rite unit. I like to build things, so even if I could afford to buy it, I would still build it. If you dont count your time, you could save thousands off a $14,000. unit. If you want $25. per hour for your time, youll burn up most of the savings. You need a good amount of free time to build this stuff. I do it in the winter, cooold up here.
Ive been using graco pumps for 7 years, and never had any problems. I here many good things about wilden pumps as well

SealAndCoat
03-26-2006, 10:49 AM
Lots of people do build their own tanks, but it really depends if you have the parts and resources available. Winter is a good time to do it since you aren't really missing out on any work.

If you could find an old steel tank, all you need to do is cut a hole in the top as a manway and door to add sealer, and then a hole at each end in the middle for the shaft so you can mix it. Then you either have to build a trailer, or put it on a trailer. Just keep in mind that these units get heavy when they are full so if your trailer isn't heavy duty enough it will be sitting on the ground.

Keep checking on ebay, there are always good deals on seal coating units and tanks. And you can convert most tanks into spray units pretty easily.

Southern Ocean sealing
11-27-2006, 06:40 PM
Howdy Fella`s,
I`ve been sealcoating for about 5 years,before I started up my ex-boss had a steel tank,I wanted to get 1 for myself,But costs too much if your on a limited budget.So i went with the polytank,5.5 intek and pacer pump.i`ve been running the same setup for 5 years,as far as sand mix goes,here In new jersey I don`t know of any sealing company that uses it,not even myself.steel or poly setup`s.all my hoses are 2',product hose is 3/4,polyethelene fitting from northerntool,tank i got from somewhere on the internet,that was $195.00,the only downfall with the sqaure tank is you`ll have 20-30 gallons sit on the bottom,below the outlet,to get around that,i tilt up the tank when I clean it out every month(yes every month)before it hardens or breaksdown and becomes sludge.cleaning only takes a few hours,i run hot water thru whole system as if i`m sealing a driveway,take the pump apart and check impeller,it`s not hard.the only thing Ive changed on this system was a few gaskets,this year i`m selling this 1 off,and i`m gonna make up a new setup using the same thing but 2-330 gallons tanks,2' impeller pump(cast iron)to see how it works.

MisterRatburn
05-06-2008, 08:55 PM
Everyone I know who owns this cheap unit seems to speak very highly of it. They get alot of work and pay it off and make profits very soon after buying it. The guys with the expensive equipment always have their noses up in the air when they drive past him.. but guess what... the guys with the cheap units get just as much work as the expensive guys.

The guys with the expensive units feel like those with the cheap units don't deserve to get the work I guess.

EWS
05-06-2008, 09:01 PM
Those Units Are A Joke. They Dont Mix The Sealer Properly

Coater
05-06-2008, 11:21 PM
They are a big Joke, I'd be willing to do a job right next to one done with these joke boxs and bet 5000.00 my drive would be 100 times better. The people saying these age great must be the same one selling them. I wear out a tip on every drive I do. So tell me how a plastic pump can last three years unless they aren't adding sand. When somebody slips on your nonsand seal jobs you be sorry!!

nitro121
05-08-2008, 09:10 AM
to bucket/55 gallon drum all of my customers 2x2 driveways and put it next to yours w/ the high priced equipment. Mine would look better. :rolleyes:

Just like everyone says the grass gets a better cut using a commercial mower over a murray tractor.....not, its just faster.

1. buckets (21" push mower) = good job/more time

2. trash pump (lawn tractor) = good job/less time

3. 10g trailer system (Name brand ZTR) = good job/even less time/holds more sealant/looks more professional

BOTTOM LINE - they all do the same job.

Peace

nitro121
05-08-2008, 09:13 AM
I've never sealcoated a thing in my life. :laugh:

Just throwing my .2 cents in for the heck of it (bored at work) based on past experience and private IM's w/ people who own trash pump systems.

Peace

Coater
05-08-2008, 10:02 AM
I tell you what, Mix the material in the joke box the way I mix it and we will see how the pump sprays it. If a pro mixer gets stuck every now and then, how in the world could a plastic pump move it!
This is an excerpt from an actual court ruling in Arkansas regarding the use of sand in pavement sealers and fall injury liability.

Although it was not raining and the asphalt was not wet, she found it to be very slippery. The deposition of Mr. Walker was also very informative. He stated that he has been in the sealing business for a number of years and that until about 1987 he mixed sand into his sealing compounds. However, he discontinued this practice and when he sealed the Bonanza parking lot in August 1989 he did not use sand. The evidence suggested that it is customary for sealers to use sand for this purpose. Mr. Walker produced an invoice which read, "Caution, sand or slag recommended in all sealer applications." Despite this warning, he failed to use sand when he sealed the Bonanza parking lot. Mr. Walker remembered that the manufacturer said that it may be necessary to mix sand in the sealant on inclined areas. Kelly Hale, manager of the Jonesboro Bonanza, also gave a deposition. He stated that between August 1989 and December 1989, when Mrs. Trent fell, at least three other ladies had slipped and fallen in the same area of the parking lot. Before Mr. Walker sealed the lot there had not been a problem with people slipping in this area, and prior to Mrs. Trent's accident KMS had taken no action to remedy the problem.

nitro121
05-08-2008, 01:41 PM
Actually I just talked to a guy from Pavement pro last week. I saw a trash pump system on Craigslist and had questions. He PM'd me and said he sprays emulsion or whatever it is through his trash pump then spreads sand afterwards and has been for years. Low overhead and he still charges premium price.

Just can't tell his fellow "boardmembers" or they'd give him grief.

Peace

Coater
05-08-2008, 09:50 PM
That has to be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard! The sand would just roll out the first time a tire hit it. If I did it that way I'd be ashamed also, and wouldn't want to tell anyone that I cheat my customers that way. I'm sure he isn't a official Member unless he is lying on the application for membership but if he cheats his customers that way I'm sure he wouldn't mine lying on the application. This is one of the fly by night cons to make people think they are legit>>>>

DJ Contracting
05-08-2008, 11:04 PM
I have used the trash pump unit w/sand and it worked just fine now i talked to the two biggest seal coaters here and they both said that the sand only last so long and will wear of just like powder and that it is not very effective, however they still use it as do i just to cover my butt one of the owners is a good friend of mine and my supplier i had him look at some of my jobs and he was very supprised of the way they turned out and said it works fine. I can't comment on a 10g unit because i have never used one, so anybody that comments on something thay havn't used is like well it's just an opinion with out trying one.

Coater
05-09-2008, 12:09 AM
I have no Problem with my sand turning to powder or lasting my two or three year warrantee.

(((((I can't comment on a 10g unit because i have never used one, so anybody that comments on something they haven't used is like well it's just an opinion with out trying one)))))

I agree 1000%! Someone who has never seen a seal job done correctly has no Ideal what they are talking about. They are just putting down black water and cheating the customer.

WebMan
05-09-2008, 03:25 AM
Actually I just talked to a guy from Pavement pro last week. I saw a trash pump system on Craigslist and had questions. He PM'd me and said he sprays emulsion or whatever it is through his trash pump then spreads sand afterwards and has been for years. Low overhead and he still charges premium price.
Just can't tell his fellow "boardmembers" or they'd give him grief.
Peace
Just to clarify this post: like any forum or " discussion board" the one mentioned here has participants on the "board" or forums that may use these junker "machines".
Some people use them as storage units (which they work for to transfer concentrate without sand) but my company works with the association that runs that public "board" or forum as an allied-vendor member and no member of the "board of directors" of the association that sponsors the public forums there uses or would use one of these things for applying sealer for customers. :nono:

I just thought I would clarify the use of the term "board members". There may be a "forum or "board" participant or two who use the machines (in fact some have said they do and explained how to build them on the forum or "bulletin board") but not to confuse the participants on a public forum like this one where any contractor can participate or be a "member" of the forum/board or more accurately stated; a "forum participant", with the actual "board members" or contractor-members of the association who provides those public forums/"board" or the organization's "board" of directors", all of whom I happen to know personally as an allied-member company owner (and host of several of the board's director-member's web sites).

DJ Contracting
05-09-2008, 08:45 AM
I have no Problem with my sand turning to powder or lasting my two or three year warrantee.

(((((I can't comment on a 10g unit because i have never used one, so anybody that comments on something they haven't used is like well it's just an opinion with out trying one)))))

I agree 1000%! Someone who has never seen a seal job done correctly has no Ideal what they are talking about. They are just putting down black water and cheating the customer.

Lets see i have a GOOD friend that has one of the biggest seal coat companies in this area and my supplier and yes i have been with him while seal coating. ((((Have you been with anybody that uses a trash pump seal coat system, if not than you can't give an accurate opinion right, it's like commenting on a Shindaiwa line trimmer when you have an Echo trimmer it just your opinion.)))) And everybody has one, as far as putting down black water i mix mine at 35 % water to 65% material hardly water.

Coater
05-09-2008, 10:18 AM
Yes, I can because the machinery just don't add up. Do you have a hydraulic or chain driven agitator if not then you can not mix emulsion sealer the correct way. You can not mix a 6 LB. of sand per gal mix without a powered agitator. The thick material with additives could not spray with a trash pump. You can not continue to agitate while applying sealer without a powered agitator. The trash pump will only allow you to spray or circulate material but not both. When you tell me that the biggest sealer contractor in your area thinks sand is useless and that he can't keep in the material after applied tells a lot about him, to those who know the truth!

WebMan
05-09-2008, 12:31 PM
I bought one of these units 4 years ago. It paid for itself in a month. Then if has just been profit since then. It added a whole new dimension to my business. Most all my mowing customers have me sealcoat the driveway in the spring. Best investment I have ever made. I don't know why people cut it down it does a great job and I can do a normal 2X2 driveway in 30 minutes. I think it is because they feel you have to pay alot of money to get the same quality they do. And before you ask I use 2 pounds of sand per gallon and 1 gallon of tarmax. Never had a minutes trouble with it spraying fourth year on my motor, but I think I am going to have to call StarSeal this year for a new motor.
Don't let everyone talk you out of trying this it really does work!!

Knowing the properties of Tarmax well, how do you keep your machine agitating while adding it? I think this is a funny post because having watched Tarmax being added it thickens up sealer very quickly (faster than any other additive they say) when added and if the agitator is not turning fast enough will produce "strings" of rubber in the mix because it's not mixed well. I've seen strainer baskets where the contractor I was taking photos of pulled out handfuls of the stringy rubber stuff cusssing the whole time because his employees weren't mixing it in right. So if you are saying you add Tarmax to a unit that has to be sitting still when adding material it just can't be so. You'd just have a ball of rubber in there ar be spraying globs of it.
That's the main problem with these things. A trash pump will work to "pump". I have seen it, on an agitated tank and spraying sand. The contractor said he replaced the pump yearly or more often depending on how busy he was. But the tank was steel and he built the hydraulic agitation system for it. I've got customers with the Equipt units with the poly tanks that are nothing like these things and other customers with almost every brand you can think of.
But the analogy about the mowers isn't correct in another post. With a good mix tank anything is possible. You can use most anything to spray a good sealer mix after it leaves the tank, or you can carry it in buckets, or you can put it in drums on dollies and carry it (saw that once) and you can brush or spray or whatever. But the secret is in the quality of the sealer mix in the tank. I have built way too many web sites for sealcoaters who all stressed the same things about the quality of the "mix design". The right sealer + right additives in the right % and right silica sand (and if somebody's sand is turning to powder it's because they are using the wrong sand). But the quality of the material is the bottom line.
Not one of my many sealcoating customers has ever wanted us to mention they were better because they had a XYZ machine. Some wanted photos of their new $20K unit on the first page but they didn't "go on" about it. Some guys have had me emphasize how they always brush, others that they always spray, each claiming the advantages of both and mentioning the disadvantages of the other, and some do 1 coat of each.
But the constant is they all talk a lot about their "mix". Why the product they use and the stuff they mix with it is better than the others in their area (and I've done them from coast to coast so the material brands change a lot on everything but the underlying story is always the same "better sealer+better additives+better sand or boiler slag= they have better sealcoat than their competitors. And I looked at those machines in the link and what was mentioned about DOT is right. That "cage" frame around them means they are made to be stacked inside trucks. I have seen the ones that don't have that & they are much heavier. You might have a problem if their was a spill or getting a trailer licensed if that was on it or whatever depending on what they look at in your state. And remember, as a post I was reading elsewhere said today, people today are LOOKING for people to sue. So if their was a fender bender but a lawyer figured out you had something non-DOT all of a sudden that client would have a million dollar injury somehow requiring years of treatment...and there goes your insurance cost, IF anybody else will take you.
This whole tote-tank sprayer thing just seems like cheap units doing cheap work that might get you into trouble. So why risk it? There is a free magazine called PaverMarket that's nothing but classified ads. This isn't the best time (fall-winter when people are hungry) but you can always find decent "name brand machines for a bargain in there if you don't want to go new.
I had a client of mine buy a brand new $17,000+ machine and 6 months later was canceling his web service (gave notice) and had me put the machine on there for $10K negotiable used twice. I told him he was crazy for selling it for that but he had a partner deal with a in-law or something but he got a BIG promotion at his "day job" somewhere else but had to move NOW so the machine had to go-regardless because he had to be out of business and out of town by the end of the month, I think it went for $8,500 but you can find some great deals if you look around. No need to risk problems when you can find a workable machine for that same price...it might not spray so it's selling cheap, well then go to Tractor Supply and rig up a trash pump. But have the tank that will mix good stuff.

ssupercoolss
05-09-2008, 01:53 PM
you can go sealcoating with one of these things. i am here to tell you that no matter how much you recirculate this tank, it will never mix the stuff thats laying in the corners. never. saying you dont need sand in sealer is like saying you dont need blades on a lawn mower. and if you are out there sealing with out sand, you shouldnt be. you would be up for a huge law suit if you were to go do some commercial work with no sand. its like a skating rink when wet. this is the worst set up i have ever seen, and its target market is for people that just dont know any better. you have to have a full sweep aggitator to mix sealer properly.

DJ Contracting
05-09-2008, 06:14 PM
Yes, I can because the machinery just don't add up. Do you have a hydraulic or chain driven agitator if not then you can not mix emulsion sealer the correct way. You can not mix a 6 LB. of sand per gal mix without a powered agitator. The thick material with additives could not spray with a trash pump. You can not continue to agitate while applying sealer without a powered agitator. The trash pump will only allow you to spray or circulate material but not both. When you tell me that the biggest sealer contractor in your area thinks sand is useless and that he can't keep in the material after applied tells a lot about him, to those who know the truth!


So who's your monkey that stays there and agitates the material while you spray. (((you can't tell me with a hand agitator the the material keeps agitating after you stopped the initial agitation))) You make it sound like once you have applied you'll never have to go back and reseal again where i'm from the car's,truck's,suv's, ALL WEAR the sealer off INCLUDING the sand :hammerhead: TRUST me your not doing anything different, look closely at your jobs it does and will wear off that's why we have to reseal parking lots and driveways :dizzy: i'm sure your one of those that will guarantee your work for ten years, throw a snowplow on that parking lot/driveway during the winter and see how long it last. :hammerhead:

DJ Contracting
05-09-2008, 06:23 PM
you can go sealcoating with one of these things. i am here to tell you that no matter how much you recirculate this tank, it will never mix the stuff thats laying in the corners. never. saying you dont need sand in sealer is like saying you dont need blades on a lawn mower. and if you are out there sealing with out sand, you shouldnt be. you would be up for a huge law suit if you were to go do some commercial work with no sand. its like a skating rink when wet. this is the worst set up i have ever seen, and its target market is for people that just dont know any better. you have to have a full sweep aggitator to mix sealer properly.


You'll have to reread my post I never did say that sand was not needed nor did i say that my friend or i did not use it, i merely stated that where we are from it wears off. i agree with the agitation however if i'm not mistaken how will the material be agitated once you switch from agitation to spraying? I know on the hand agitated systems you agitate once you get on the job then you spray correct.

EWS
05-09-2008, 09:18 PM
actually to clear up a few things for the guy who said he mixes his sealer 35% water 65%sealer thats wrong. the correct way is 20-40 gallons of water per hundred gallons of sealer. and 300-500 lbs of sand per 100 gallons a little less water for AE than CT. And as for aggitation poly tanks dont agiatate and as for hand or power agiatation it does not matter because when you are sealing the tank is not being agitated. I have seen and used the poly systems and I have sealmaster custom units, so I personally know how these systems work and I will say this the 275g poly trash units all your doing is spitting black water. I just think some people are a little nieve and they think they know how sealcoat equipment works and how to mix.

EWS
05-09-2008, 09:23 PM
if you want to do percents when mixing it should be 30-40 percent of 100 gallons not 35 gallons of water 65 gallons of sealer,,, rookie mistakes

EWS
05-09-2008, 09:25 PM
the sealer stays agitated for a while after u mix it as long as it doesnt get too cold at night and you dont let it sit for more than a week or so I personally agiatate my tanks before every job for at least 10-15 minutes

Coater
05-09-2008, 09:28 PM
My monkey is a handle I pull to turn on the hydraulic agitator that runs before, and during the whole seal job.

I have a commercial parking lot going on three years, I wish it needed to be resealed. I would love to seal it again. My top of the line mix comes out just like corse black sand paper. I just looked at one I did last year, and It is just the way I left it. No wear!!!

DJ Contracting
05-09-2008, 11:11 PM
My monkey is a handle I pull to turn on the hydraulic agitator that runs before, and during the whole seal job.

I have a commercial parking lot going on three years, I wish it needed to be resealed. I would love to seal it again. My top of the line mix comes out just like corse black sand paper. I just looked at one I did last year, and It is just the way I left it. No wear!!!

It's like talking to a wall here if your that sure of your jobs post pics or shu well never mind i'm through talking well typing anyway this is an old thread and needs to be shut down.

DJ Contracting
05-09-2008, 11:14 PM
[QUOTE=EWS;2314845]if you want to do percents when mixing it should be 30-40 percent of 100 gallons not 35 gallons of water 65 gallons of sealer,,, rookie mistakes[/QUOTE

Well tell me master coater what 30-40 % is then seeing how your and expirenced seal coater. You lnow never mind like i said in my last post i'm through with this old thread.

Coater
05-09-2008, 11:34 PM
I'm just stating the truth. You guys keep asking the same questions and we keep telling you what is right and what is wrong. The answer is the same no matter how many times you ask or if you change up the question, the answer is the same!!!!

Don't ask if you don't want the truth!! It's not hard good at sealcoating as long as you have the right equipment and strick mix formula to go by

ssupercoolss
05-12-2008, 11:02 AM
djcontracting " i agree with the agitation however if i'm not mistaken how will the material be agitated once you switch from agitation to spraying? I know on the hand agitated systems you agitate once you get on the job then you spray correct."

ummm....all nine of my sealcoating trucks have hydraulic aggitators, with speed control and forward/reverse. i have never had the pleasure of turning one by hand, nor do i ever want to. i dont think you can mix 5lbs of sand in a hand aggitated tank properly.

SurfaceMax
05-12-2008, 04:47 PM
You can mix 5 lbs. in a hand crank tank bu you wouldn't like it (too tired to apply it afterwards.) So most people only go about 3.

While a hand crank tank will hold the sand in suspension while spraying (as long as the mix is right and it's mixed well) hydraulics let you keep the agitator turning (better) and also let you keep it turning while driving ( a must to prevent sand from setting out).
I have seen many people save money by buying a hand-crank only to be converting to hydraulics after a year (one season) even if they use a helper to crank. It;s just too slow and inefficient and hydraulics make everything quicker/easier/more production and that equals more profitable.

DJ Contracting
05-12-2008, 06:15 PM
djcontracting " i agree with the agitation however if i'm not mistaken how will the material be agitated once you switch from agitation to spraying? I know on the hand agitated systems you agitate once you get on the job then you spray correct."

ummm....all nine of my sealcoating trucks have hydraulic aggitators, with speed control and forward/reverse. i have never had the pleasure of turning one by hand, nor do i ever want to. i dont think you can mix 5lbs of sand in a hand aggitated tank properly.

I have a 2" ballvalve that i set halfway on spray and half on recirculation, or i can agitate it for ten min. when i get to the job then switch to spray, that would be the same as a hand agitated system.

grassman21
05-12-2008, 11:31 PM
does tank size play any more part into the equation that just amount of sealer it can hold? maybe a dumb question but i have a 65 gallon tank i would like to use, sure it cant hold a lot but most of my buisness will be 2x2 residential drives... also does anyone(smaller business's) just buy sealer by 5 gallon buckets, i think that pricing will be nearly the same once shipping is figured into a 55 gallon drum....any brands sold at lowes or menards(5 gallon buckets) that anyone would suggest, or warn against? and would i need to dilute these sealers or would they be ready to apply?

ssupercoolss
05-13-2008, 07:27 AM
please dont B.S. yourself into thinking recirculation is the same thing as aggitation. its not. try showing up at a job with an inspector, and trying to pass that one off.

SurfaceMax
05-13-2008, 03:05 PM
does tank size play any more part into the equation that just amount of sealer it can hold? maybe a dumb question but i have a 65 gallon tank i would like to use, sure it cant hold a lot but most of my buisness will be 2x2 residential drives... also does anyone(smaller business's) just buy sealer by 5 gallon buckets, i think that pricing will be nearly the same once shipping is figured into a 55 gallon drum....any brands sold at lowes or menards(5 gallon buckets) that anyone would suggest, or warn against? and would i need to dilute these sealers or would they be ready to apply?
A 65 gallon tank won't do much. If you are really close to a supplier it might be OK but remember the price of gas! A 65 gal tank would do about 2,000sq. ft. of finished pavement (give or take a few) and that's not much, maybe 2-4 small driveways. So that would be the biggest problem with size. You usually can't buy commercial grade sealer in 5 gallon pails (that's the home-store stuff)
So yes, a 65 could work but the cost of installing agitation (hand crank or hydraulic) will be the same as if it was a 200-300 gallon (only a little difference in the amount of metal) so that's in start-up overhead then if you get any degree off success at all you will be spending a lot of time & gas running back & forth to the sealer plant. So if there is a plant within 15 miles or maybe 20-30 max you would be OK but if it's 2 hours to get sealer you will be spending your profits "on the road".
The only benefit I see is that many contractors won't use primer when it's really needed because of the cost of mixing in their tank then having to go get sealer etc. BUT a 65 would hold enough primer to cover a pretty large area (primer goes down very thin-like water). So if you outgrow the 65 for sealing you could buy a bigger seal rig and have a tank a decent size for priming & doing a really good quality job on smaller areas where other guys might skip the primer.

SurfaceMax
05-13-2008, 03:26 PM
Editing time ran out and I didn't catch that you would be using a non agitated/square tank. So it won't work for sealing period.
Think about your question about the home store stuff a minute. When people see those pails they will know what you are using and that you definitely not a professional. (And some may be hacked because people are funny. If they see you used the same stuff they could buy at Lowes and you made $50 profit they may think that $50 was too much and you ripped them off because you put down the same thing they could have bought even if your time was well-worth the $50)
It would still work for priming. Primer has no sand and is thin like water.

grassman21
05-13-2008, 11:28 PM
i was referring to using a 65 gallon round tank with a transfer type pump similar to the low end seal rigs seen in the square tanks, the reason i wondered about the 5 gallon pails was that i up until now have been buying them from lowes and applying them by squegee(backbreaking)

ssupercoolss
05-27-2008, 04:49 PM
DJ - I've done a ton of airport work. and i dont mean i just stopped by to cut thier grass. the FAA is sometimes kind of hung up on specs like "full sweep aggitation". I've probably put more sealer down in one day than you have in a year. and yes, i do know what i am talking about when i debate aggitation vs recirculation. I've had to recirculate a tanker with 4000 gallons in it. it takes hours to mix it into something resembling mixed coal tar. and thats taking the hose and dumping it back into the furthest spot away from where it is sucking it out of the tank. i would have to bet your recirc line dumps back right on top of where it sucks it out, doesnt it.

MisterRatburn
05-27-2008, 08:50 PM
DJ - I've done a ton of airport work. and i dont mean i just stopped by to cut thier grass. the FAA is sometimes kind of hung up on specs like "full sweep aggitation". I've probably put more sealer down in one day than you have in a year. and yes, i do know what i am talking about when i debate aggitation vs recirculation. I've had to recirculate a tanker with 4000 gallons in it. it takes hours to mix it into something resembling mixed coal tar. and thats taking the hose and dumping it back into the furthest spot away from where it is sucking it out of the tank. i would have to bet your recirc line dumps back right on top of where it sucks it out, doesnt it.

Who cares how much **** you've sprayed in a day? You guys with the expensive equipment are really worried about the little guy. If you didn't show so much fear.. then I would really think that only the best equipment is the way to go. But since you guys are so insecure about the guy with the Square box and broom... I have to assume that they must have just as much work too! So who's better? Who's ahead of the game? Me thinks that the guy with less invested might be more ahead! The home-owner doesn't know **** about Sealing....so don't pretend they do! They just know who does it cheaper!! haha!!

seal4cash
05-27-2008, 10:53 PM
Who cares how much **** you've sprayed in a day? You guys with the expensive equipment are really worried about the little guy. If you didn't show so much fear.. then I would really think that only the best equipment is the way to go. But since you guys are so insecure about the guy with the Square box and broom... I have to assume that they must have just as much work too! So who's better? Who's ahead of the game? Me thinks that the guy with less invested might be more ahead! The home-owner doesn't know **** about Sealing....so don't pretend they do! They just know who does it cheaper!! haha!!


Speaking from my personal experience, people are very cheap these days....they do not care about expensive systems with agitation and high-end material.....thats why wal-marts and dollar stores are so popular.....as long as their driveway is black everyone's happy around here.
I run one of those "cheap" rigs and spray gilsonite (no sand required)...when i'm done, the driveway looks nice black and shiny and everyone's happy.....i don't see anyone in my area using the expensive rigs and there is probably a good reason for it......
Bottom line is.... i spend less $$ on my overhead, than the guy with 1st class expensive sealing rig....and reading about some of the prices they charge....i charge roughly about the same....
So in the end.....since the whole idea of running a buisness, is too spend as little as possible and charge as much as possible.... i think i have the edge over the "big guy"....
Of course they don't like it, it probably makes some of them them feel stupid, when they're stuck paying off their expensive rig making same $$$ as the little guy.....
Is it fair?....of course not...in theory the more you invest into your buisness the more you should get back....while this rule might apply to other buisnesses, sealing driveways isn't one of them....

The reason for this?......driveway sealing, right next to roofing, is probably the # 1 outlet for con-artists in all of North America...what i mean by that.....the sealing buisness for some reason attracts more con-artists, than any other buisnesses (you're welcome to run a google search on # 1 home-improvement scam in North America, see what comes out...)
My point is, that some of the guys who are legit, might be well meaning, but all they are doing is pi**ing against the wind, when they create these fancy sounding paving organizations, which are clearly aimed to restore the public confidence....it will NEVER happen....period.
This is the nature of the beast.
Perception is reality....and the perception is, that if you hold a spraying wand in your hand, there is about 95% chance, that you are a con-artist....
It is what it is....might as well just go with it....there's no point in any kind of infighting about equipment....
Bottom line....the best equipment is the one that makes you most $$...

ssupercoolss
05-28-2008, 07:09 AM
you are so right. homeowners know who does it cheaper. unfortunatly they dont know who is doing it right. thats what seperates the guys doing commercial work from those doing residential. we continue to work for many of the same companies after the first job.

MisterRatburn
05-28-2008, 10:43 AM
you are so right. homeowners know who does it cheaper. unfortunatly they dont know who is doing it right. thats what seperates the guys doing commercial work from those doing residential. we continue to work for many of the same companies after the first job.

I agree guys! Commercial jobs require a Professional.. like some of you obviously are, but I was speaking of the common homeowner when I said that they don't know anything about Sealcoating except to just look for the cheapest price. *trucewhiteflag*

DJ Contracting
05-28-2008, 11:08 PM
DJ - I've done a ton of airport work. and i dont mean i just stopped by to cut thier grass. the FAA is sometimes kind of hung up on specs like "full sweep aggitation". I've probably put more sealer down in one day than you have in a year. and yes, i do know what i am talking about when i debate aggitation vs recirculation. I've had to recirculate a tanker with 4000 gallons in it. it takes hours to mix it into something resembling mixed coal tar. and thats taking the hose and dumping it back into the furthest spot away from where it is sucking it out of the tank. i would have to bet your recirc line dumps back right on top of where it sucks it out, doesnt it.


Dude were talking 125 to 275 gals. here not 4,000 yeah that would take a very loooong time, come on be real here thats like comparing apples to oranges and yes it dumps into the top but again it's 275 gals. not 4,000 so in theory it should only take several minutes right. It's great that your doing airports, i highly doubt that you have time for small parking lots let alone driveways. Some people say that a recirculating system can't spray sand, then tell me why i have to keep replacing my tip when the pattern starts to have lines of sealer on the outside edge of the pattern after running a tank full.

ssupercoolss
06-02-2008, 05:05 PM
if your tip wears out after 275 gallons, then you are using cheap tips too.

DJ Contracting
06-02-2008, 06:10 PM
if your tip wears out after 275 gallons, then you are using cheap tips too.

Yeaaaa that's it :hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead: tell me more genius so you don't have an answer for the apples to oranges there Chuck, like i said your soooo good stick to the taxiways there Jack, because your putting me to :sleeping:

MisterRatburn
06-02-2008, 10:59 PM
:clapping: Lotsa drama on this board! Who knew?

nitro121
06-03-2008, 01:27 PM
Finally a few guys who used this system vouch for it. :clapping:

I'm going to make one because of this thread. I wanted to before but no one would really step up in front of the board and say it. Tractor Supply is a few miles from my house.

Thanks for all the info DJ Contracting.

Peace,
Gary

DJ Contracting
06-03-2008, 10:43 PM
Finally a few guys who used this system vouch for it. :clapping:

I'm going to make one because of this thread. I wanted to before but no one would really step up in front of the board and say it. Tractor Supply is a few miles from my house.

Thanks for all the info DJ Contracting.

Peace,
Gary

Sure anytime.

firelwn
06-05-2008, 05:23 PM
This is why I don't visit lawn site to often. This place is full of little girls boo hooing about nothing at all. I f I wanted this crap I would of failed high school 6 years ago and stayed there.
Come on people it's time to grow up and just give good decent advice, if you don't like what you see or read then voice your opinion don't get your thong in a bunch cause someone doesn't agree with what you say. *trucewhiteflag*

MisterRatburn
06-05-2008, 07:48 PM
Come on people it's time to grow up and just give good decent advice,

The guys with the $20,000.00 machines think giving good advice means calling people fools and gypsies if they do any sealing with lesser equipment.

firelwn
06-06-2008, 04:13 AM
The guys with the $20,000.00 machines think giving good advice means calling people fools and gypsies if they do any sealing with lesser equipment.

Good for them, but I was here to LEARN how to make a spray machine and then become COOL like them. Sorry that a little guy AS THEY WERE AT ONE POINT wants to make some coin as well. quit being little girls. It's a damn forumn that is supposed to help people not degrade them.

seal4cash
06-06-2008, 01:34 PM
Just look @ the star-seal system on picture, print it out go tro your local tractor store and there you can buy everything you need for around $700....even if you have to replace the pump every season...who cares thats only like $300...small price to pay to make lots of $$....
Ther reason some "big guys" here look "down" on this setup is, because they don't want competition..... they have already realized, that most people know nothing about sealing anways and they are going to to pay you the "little guy" same price as they would to the "big guys".....and they don't like it....

jacsr1203b
06-07-2008, 08:33 PM
Is there anyone out there that has the time and kindness to give a retired person an itemized list of every component needed to make a spray unit for my own personal use? I would like to use a 50 Gal. Tank. Any assembly details would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

bran3225
06-07-2008, 09:36 PM
Can you use the stuff that comes in a can on these homemade systems like Black Jack. Also if you can do you add water to Black Jack ?

MisterRatburn
06-10-2008, 08:13 AM
Good for them, but I was here to LEARN how to make a spray machine and then become COOL like them. Sorry that a little guy AS THEY WERE AT ONE POINT wants to make some coin as well. quit being little girls. It's a damn forumn that is supposed to help people not degrade them.

:laugh: Here's the general consensus from my observations. The people that I know personally that own the cheap StarSeal of Ohio machine say it's a great little machine to get started with. They say it works well and that they have many customers. They also say that a replacement pump with Engine included is only about $300.00. They also say that it covers pretty well and that they have to move right along while spraying. None of them uses sand in the mix, but I found out that most anyone around here doesn't add sand. No matter how expensive the equipment.

The only people who say the equipment is garbage are the ones who have bigger and more expensive equipment and alot of $$ invested. They prolly started out with the same business in a box equipment also, but some of them will fail to mention it. Also, the fact that they were able to buy their expensive equipment is due to the fact that they made alot of money with the cheap system and saw the potential to make much more.

Just my observations!

steve_1022
06-18-2008, 09:38 PM
I work 4 1 of the biggest companys in the northeast my truck alone put down 160,000 gallons of sealer down last year. we have all of the most expensive equipment that you can buy.and i have one of these square spray systems that i use 4 side jobs.theres no difference in spraying or any other aspect of the job so the people who are knocking these systems can talk when they have put down as much sealer as i have every one else with one of these systems just keep putting the sealer down

seal4cash
06-18-2008, 11:11 PM
theres no difference in spraying or any other aspect of the job so the people who are knocking these systems can talk when they have put down as much sealer as i have every one else with one of these systems just keep putting the sealer down


Of course theyre knocking it...theyre scared s**tless, that you will put them out of buisness, which probably wouldn't take much considering their overhead for all the expensive equipment they run...

SurfaceMax
06-19-2008, 09:30 AM
I don't think anybody is scared as much as some people (a) care more about the quality of work they do for customers (b) try to be helpful here in assuming people who are asking want the best advice.

The products I deal with are impossible to even mix with the "trash/tote" units so if a person was interested in being able to offer what I deal with to people they couldn't even start. So in that case you would be blowing your money on one of these things.
So if you don't care what you are putting down as far as material quality for the customer; or second say you have been doing it now with buckets and are trying to do better than that, then the "travelers" have been using these for the well over 30 years I've been involved in the industry so they are certainly nothing new to "scare" anybody.
And they work just the same today as they did in the 70's (only the trash pumps were made in the USA back then :clapping: )
The only thing new is 10 years ago there was no forum like this to discuss them and no web sites selling the "tote" versions over the internet. But they were easy to find then, just not as easy as with a couple of "Google's" and "clicks" like today.
In fact back then there was much less to choose from because the "average" sealcoating unit in those "old" dollars was $20,000 and WAY up with few available but what would be considered "big rigs" today. So it was either the trash pump set-ups or the equal to what's about a $40,000+ machine today if you didn't build them yourself. And if you know the history of the industry that's where a LOT (by far most) of the companies you guys now think are "expensive" got started. Back then they were guys building their own, then they started selling a few when people saw them and asked them to build one for them and a lot of the companies you guys think of as the "expensive name-brands" today were born.
Since you don't have reference points you view the machines like Seal-Rite, Equipt, Able, Neal, etc. as being "expensive" when they are really the "bargain-priced" units of the industry compared to back then.
I remember the first sub-$10,000 "real" sealcoating machine I ever saw almost 30 years ago and about the same thing can be bought for about the same price today... ~$8,000 because of mass-production & competition.
You guys just think that today's sealcoating equipment is "high-priced" because you have no point of reference, many of you were probably teens, kids or not born then.
But the type machines you guys are talking about were reserved back then for the "travelers" or the guy in his back yard with a tank-torch & trash pump (pre-plastic totes) and put down the same quality (or lack of) as today---there just wasn't anything between there & the REAL expensive "professional" sealcoating machines by companies you wouldn't even know the names of today, and somewhere the guys who founded the outfits that became the companies you guys think are expensive were in their shops with a torch saying "I think I can build an agitator in this tank I have and put these hydraulics on it and use one of these funny air pumps from California & spray sealer as good as that $40,000 rig I saw....:drinkup:

ssupercoolss
06-27-2008, 08:18 AM
trust me, i aint worried about a guy with a box full of sealer putting me out of business. the way to a successful business is repeat business. in my opinion that tupperware thing doesnt have the ability to spray the proper mix with the proper amount of sand.

seal4cash
06-27-2008, 10:15 AM
trust me, i aint worried about a guy with a box full of sealer putting me out of business. the way to a successful business is repeat business. in my opinion that tupperware thing doesnt have the ability to spray the proper mix with the proper amount of sand

You are not worried and that's cool...each to their own system....thats how it should be, everyone has a slightly different approach... but based on some guys vicious reactions here, they ARE scared shi**ess....
They are absolutelly terrorized by the prospect, that someone else but them is making money and they feel it is wrong, not because they care about someone elses quality, they don't give a rat's a**.... but because it hurts their bottom line.
I think everyone should mind their own buisness, instead of crying and bi*ching about how the other guy does it...
It's the surviol of the fittest out there and some fear they are not going to make it and they are thrashing around like a dying horse....the capitalism was built on competition like this....

NPCA
06-27-2008, 12:04 PM
They are absolutelly terrorized by the prospect, that someone else but them is making money and they feel it is wrong, not because they care about someone elses quality, they don't give a rat's a**.... but because it hurts their bottom line.
I think everyone should mind their own buisness, instead of crying and bi*ching about how the other guy does it...
It's the surviol of the fittest out there and some fear they are not going to make it and they are thrashing around like a dying horse....the capitalism was built on competition like this....

Just a note (not to join in an argument over equipment which we don't do):

There are those of us who care a great deal about quality. So much so that we go to a great deal of effort (and cost) to provide free help to consumers, by furnishing websites with articles for their (consumers) information, answering thousands of e-mails & phone calls, etc. And our members join with the intent of the promotion of quality workmanship for consumers and agree to guarantee it.
To be sure there are those who are scared. Most of whom got into the business (like many probably do landscape work) thinking it will be "easy money" only to find it's a competitive business like any other. They had a few years of fairly "easy money" and now with soaring costs for everything from fuel to materials to insurance find themselves resenting any competition, quality or not.

But we just wanted to point out there there are a large group of contractors out there who have pledged their work ethic to providing consumers with quality, whether it be in sealcoating, paving, line striping, sweeping, or whatever form of pavement work. And to a "quality oriented" contractor seeing a customer getting any form of inferior work is painful, because they know that the bitterness of that poor quality will transfer not back to the individual who did the work but to our industry as a whole.
All of us that have been in the sealcoating business very long have encountered many people (residential and commercial) who have said something to the effect of "that sealcoating junk doesn't do anything but make the pavement black. I had mine done once and won't ever waste my money again". That type contractor (who does provide quality work guaranteed to perform) doesn't ever get the chance to explain that that person probably just got a job that whether intentionally or not wasn't done "right".
As an association it's obvious to us that some of the people who offer advice on these subjects here don't even know that much about sealing properly themselves and have probably never attended a class or seminar on how & why it works the way it does or to even understand that there are different materials used in different areas of the country and what makes "proper" application techniques may be completely different if the person is using a different material than the person who says "this is the way this must be done" without qualifying the statement with "when using type "X" sealer." We are sure these folks have the best of intentions offering advice trying to help others, but it's obvious some never have actually learned that much themselves.

We will mention that these general type units have been around for many years. (Recirculating "trash" type pumps with some type tank)
Long ago with thin steel tanks (usually used for pesticides, fertilizer & such) then with the poly tanks available for water at the "tractor" store and now with the square "totes" which are far less expensive to the "manufacturer" than the "tractor" store, if you are buying one "pre-built"; because many types of manufacturers of various products get liquid materials in these type "totes" and usually have to pay to dispose of them. So if someone wanting to make these type units for sealcoating comes along and offers to pay a small amount for them they are glad to have someone actually pay to get them off their hands. These units used to be seldom-seen because they were made "locally" and never advertised in the pavement magazines & such, so somebody had to see one and ask the owner "where did you get that"? where with the Internet today a lot of "manufacturers sprang up selling these (usually as a way to make quick money) on the web. But for every company that sells these there has also been a company advertising conventional steel agitated tanks with the construction normally seen on more expensive sealcoat machines (which are really inexpensive today compared to 30+ years ago when there was only a handful of manufacturers) that use the Internet to "rip off" people with what seems to be a great deal on a sealcoating machine, then the machine never arrives or when it does is a poorly made piece of junk that never works right.
Like in many other things the Internet has brought out the type of people just looking to make a quick buck selling whatever type "equipment" they "claim" is great; because with the Internet, for the first time they can advertise to the world for only a few dollars a month.
This sure isn't the only industry with these type "Internet" businesses that come & vanish.

If you want some fun reading pick up one of those "1,000 ways to start your own business from home" magazines and look at some of the stuff in there. They must find their share of "suckers" but it should be obvious you probably aren't going to make a fortune with gumball machines or printing photos on T shirts or buttons or whatever since those type businesses are already everywhere. And then there are ones like "get rich with decorative concrete"...and if you think sealcoating is lucrative; legitimate decorative concrete costs less than a "tote tank" to get into, the profit potential is huge and the market is everywhere--people love it. BUT most of the things in those magazines are scams. The "real stuff" can be bought far cheaper elsewhere and all their their "patented franchise system" or $10,000 initial material order" makes money for is them ;)

seal4cash
06-28-2008, 01:24 PM
NPCA, your post is very non-confrontational and articulate, unlike some so called "proffessionals" here....

It all sounds good, but based on my own life experience and based on all the anecdotal evidence out there...i'm yet to meet a "professional" pavement worker (or a roofer) who is NOT croocked.....
I do belive that within a few rare exceptionns, everyone is out there to make as much as possible as quick as possible...especially true to these professions.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it is what it is.....

I 'm no stranger to politics and organizations like yours are operating under the basic idea just like the unions do.....basically it's public relations and job protectionism (don't get me wrong not that there is anything wrong with that i used to be union myself)......
The whole bread and butter of such organization, is to tell people how highly skilled and trained their members are and how everyone else is out to screw them but but them.....the truth sometimes is the opposite....

I'm not trying to criticize anyone, but i wasn't born yesterday and everytime someone tells me how "dedicated" these professionals are i put it in the same category as one of those "mission statements" plaques a company would hang on their wall......i'm sure you see them all over the place:

"Were here to provide the best service to the customer....blah blah blah"...and so is everyone else.

It looses it's meaning, because it is just empty words....next time you are having a dispute with any bigger company (phone for example), ask them to tell you their mission statement after trying to screw you over...chances are they won't know and if they find it, it will be the furthest thing from the truth......
I's all the same out there, nobody cares, this is how the reality works.... as far as i'm concerned the only thing these "proffessionals" are dedicated is to emptying peoples wallets, which i'm not criticizing, thats what capitalism is base on..... but just calling it what it is....

NPCA
06-28-2008, 03:58 PM
Actually we are a bit different.
EVERY member must offer written guarantees on their work as well as furnishing customers detailed specifications for the work to be done (exactly what, how, and when and exactly how much) and then after each job is complete direct them to our Customer Assurance Program survey site where every customer can rate that member's performance and their level of satisfaction with the job and the professionalism of the contractor. Right there for the world to see.
(Results do not display yet as this new program only went into effect June 1st and it will take a while to gather enough data for meaningful statistics.)

So unlike unions or "protectionism" it's just a group of people who all agree to do quality word by ethical business practices. And if they don't, customers will be quick to "tell".
In the case of this thread our members must use sand if the sealer manufacturer recommends it so that's a non-issue. Whether this unit will do jobs "to spec" is not our concern. Our concern is only that the job be done "to spec", whatever method is used to accomplish that.

Not saying a bad apple can't slip in here or there but usually they won't even bother trying, they are too busy looking for their next "mark". In our just over 8 years we have banned 3 members, not a bad record.

zjf
03-22-2009, 04:59 AM
seen a lot on here over the months of research for building a trash pump set up.
I spent about 600 bucks with a free tank i got from a local municipality. fabricated the pump return low in tank to keep material flowing. put 100 ft 3/4 hose on it with 6 1/2 ft alum. spray wand, with calculations should be around 74 psi. i also bought walk behind blower used,back pack blower 150$ home cheapo,500,00 btu torch,wire push broom,brushes,rollers,should have it ready in a week. thinking of adding sand how much should i use? how many lbs per gallon. thinking bout using black beauty through it its 9 $ on 80 lbs so would 140 lbs of sand be good for the 100 gallon mix which gives you i believe about 140 with gallons with 25%water and 1 lb per gallon.... let me know what you think about my mix !!! should have completely built in a bout 4 days gonna run a few 100 gallons of water through it and see how it sprays. ill let you all know..
ill keep an up date on how it all goes including first jobs with pics. does anyone know how to build a make shift hydro seeder?????????????????????????????????????????????????*trucewhiteflag*

WebMan
03-22-2009, 12:26 PM
I saw a site on hydro seeders somewhere, didn't look hard to do, if I run across it I'll post the link or PM it to you, been a good while back though. You might Google for "cheap" hydro-seeders or cheap hydrromulch equipment (don't recall what I was looking for)

SurfaceMax
03-22-2009, 12:31 PM
Sand should always be at least 3 lbs. per gallon of concentrate (before water) material (but add it after water)
So if your sealer mfg. says 30% water then mix 100 gallons concentrate w/30 gallons of water until thoroughly mixed then add 300 lbs. sand. I would suggest avoiding black beauty (boiler slag) because it's more expensive and doesn't tend to stay in the sealer well (will roll-out) without additives. If you put a hydraulic mix system on your tank you could use additives but even so w/trash pump probably not enough to hold black beauty well; so use silica sand (from sealer supplier so you get the right mesh)

Many people will talk about using 1 or 2 lbs of sand but that's just so they can say "we use sand in our sealer". Numerous studies over the years (like as far back as 30 years ago) have shown less than ~3 lbs. does no good for improving durability of sealer and only marginally increases slip resistance. So if you get sued for a slip & fall they will still win since your supplier probably recommends at least 3 lbs.
Now if it's asphalt emulsion sealer it may be different. Some AE manufacturers use aggregate in the manufacturing process and so it won't hold as much. This is very rare but sometimes you will see an SE that will only hold one or 2.
Normally the same goes for both (See PCTC and ASMA application specifications for more)

blacktop
05-07-2009, 11:00 PM
Hi, was looking into buy a unit from star seal but was turned off when i started figuring out the shipping and what it would take to get it across the border into canada. paper work etc.

I have decide to build my own. What im looking for is a parts list and maybe some one can fill me in on what kind of pump i need and size of hoses/fittings etc. This would be very appreciated.

DJ Contracting, I noticed you have made the same thing but i was unable to PM you about it. maybe you can answer some of my questions.

Below is a picture of what I would like to build.
Thank you all so much.


Could not get pictures to work, here is the site.
http://www.starsealofohio.com/catalog/sealcoat-rig.html

If you want to build your own unit that is fine. I see your from Ontario will you be using a oil base sealer because the equipment will be different. You can buy a new oil base sealer unit from pro-tect in colberg for $2500 to $3500
I would get a steel tank the rest you can get from princess auto if you decide to build your own unit.

Good luck