Just Curious?

[John Deere]

I would like to see if I could get a an estimate from you all. I am putting in a burm at an apt. complex that we provide lawn care service to. Here goes!<p>The burm is 10 ft. in diameter so I need a bid for dirt, mulch and edging. I already have the cost on my shrubs but you can also tell me if you have a planting charge. I am going to be using a 3 man crew. Here is how I'm figuring it. I am bidding it at $40 per man hr. and am figuring it at 3 hours. Plus I will add the cost of edging and plants. So I am figuring $360 plus materials. Tell me how I measure up or if I'm high or low? Also, I mark up my shrubs and plants 75% Thanks!

[FIREMAN]

ARE YOU SURE 9 MANHOURS IS ENOUGH? IS THE JOB EASILY ACCESSIBLE? WILL THERE BE ALOT OF WHELL BAROWING? DON'T FORGET THE FUDGE FACTOR YOU MAY HAVE SOME UNFORSEEN PROBLEM THAT COULD TURN A SIMPLE JOB INTO A BIG HEADACHE, I WOULD ADD SOME LABOR TIME THIS WAY IF YOU ARE CONTENT WITH YOUR PROFITS ON 9 MAN HOURS FOR THIS JOB, IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS YOU MAY STILL COME OUT AHEAD OR AT LEAST BE WHERE YOU WANTED TO BE ORIGINALLY.

[John Deere]

We have a 10,000 lb. dump trailer so a wheel barrow is not necessary. I am pretty sure 9 man hours is what it will take. I just want to make sure their jaws won't drop when they see that I want $40 per man hr. I will give them an estimate at 9 - 12 man hrs. at $40 per. Plus the cost of my plants and materials. If anybody else would like to weigh in I would be much appreciative!

[Evan528]

i would just give them a final price... dont tell them how much per man hour.... since you only have a guess of 9 hours that it will take bid it for 11 or 12.

[John Deere]

Thanks Evan, but I'm two steps ahead of ya. One, it's not really a guess. I've done this work before, but have never had an opportunity to ask others which is what this forum is for. Also, I always give a final price and never put in writing my estimating procedures. If I could get back to my original question. Again, I would like to know where I compare to others in price! Is my bid out of line or am I in the right ballpark, preferably wrigley field. ha ha. Thanks again everyone.

[thelawnguy]

How high? Or, more specifically, how many yards of fill will you be needing (according to your calculations)? Can the area be accessed directly or must you cart stuff in manually?<p>Bill

[Lanelle]

Just to get to the dirt numbers, I'd need a little more info. Is this a circular berm? How high are you elevating it and will it taper to the edge gradually or drop off quickly? If you are giving a warranty on your plant material you may need to raise the price a little to recover any replacement cost incurred. Your labor cost per manhour looks good. Remember to include travel time, clean-up time and getting paid to haul soil to site. Trailers and gas cost plenty.<p>----------<br>Lanelle<br>

[John Deere]

Lanelle, your the first person to get close to answering my question. First, a burm in my opinion does not drop off, it tapers off. Like I said that's my opinion and figuered that was implied. Also you wondered if this was circular and in my first post I said it was 10 ft' in diameter. I apologize if I didn't make that clear that it would be circular. As far as what you said about my haul time etc. I do have that figuered into my hours. If my #'s sound ok that's what I want to know and for that - thanks! Lawn guy: I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but in a post 2 spots above yours I said a wheel barrow is not necessary. Like I said, we have a dump trailer and will be able to back up at the spot and dump it on the spot. I really didn't know this was going to bring up so many other questions. I thought this was a fairly simple question. I do appreciate your attempts to help, but I guess I was looking for someone to just tell me what they would charge to put in a 10 'ft in diameter circular burm with the cost of dirt, mulch and edging. Thanks again!

[cjcland]

did you sell them irrigation for the plants too? that would increase your profit margin quite a bit<p>----------<br>CJC Landscape Management<br>Winter Haven, Florida

[paul]

Ok we don't put in much edging but man hrs. seem right. Now for dirt why hual it just order it and make the money you would have paid someone from your company to hual and increase your profit. How about mulch? Might want to add that to bid package. As for Lanelle I to need to know how high the burm would be for my dirt calc( 1 ft high burm 10' dia =9 cu.yds)don't forget to figure settlement. Puliverized dirt will settle about 4&quot; for every ft installed. Just checked last price we had for edging was $16 per foot back in 1997 <p>----------<br>paul<br>

[John Deere]

Paul, thanks for the help. ? on the edging. You say you are getting $16 per foot for edging? That means you would get $160 for 10 ft? If so where are you at cause I'm moving there monday. As for the amount of dirt, the ballpark of 10 cu. yards is about dead on.

[Alan]

JD, how high are you going to stack this berm? A foot of material, level, across a 10' circle comes to just under 79 cu ft by my calculations. There's some fancy figuring to get the amount for a tapering pile. but even if you figured 2' deep and level, that's only 6 yds, in place. Truck yards would probably be 7-8 to allow for shrinkage as you compact it, but that would depend a lot on how &quot;fluffy&quot; it was to start with. Your trailer will be good for about 4 yards max, figuring a ton per yard plus the weight of the trailer. So you're into two trips, and ALL of the second load will have to be moved UP onto the berm. Not knowing how close you are to your topsoil supply I have no way of knowing what your trip time will be. If you're shaping the berm, installing plants and mulch, I'd say you are too light on hours if you're only carrying nine hours. Personally I'd think closer to 12 total and price accordingly

[John Deere]

Alan, thanks alot! That does help me a bit on a few things that I had not considered. I just got 3 calls today that made me think of something. What do others (i.e. yourself and others that have replied) charge per man hour for landscaping. Do you have a set hourly fee or do certain jobs require different hourly rates. I'm also waiting for someone to tell me I'm crazy to charge for $40 per man hour which means I charge $120 per hr. for a 3 man crew. Thanks again!

[Alan]

Up here in northern Vermont I'm figuring $28/hr for pure manual labor and hand tools. If there is equipment that jumps to $38/hr. Hauling with a pickup is at $35 and with the 5 yd dump goes to $40. I'd like more for trucking but the market won't tolerate it. 18 yd tri-axles are only getting $45-50 and some dweebs will work a 15 yd tandem for $38. Compact tractor rates are running around $45.<p>On jobs of any real size I figure the base rate for labor, then carry equipment above that. For instance, to do a decorative block retaining wall I'll carry my hours at $28, figure my estimated time, add in travel, waiting for deliveries and a fudge factor of anywhere from 0 to maybe 30%, depending on how I feel about the job. Then I charge equipment at the daily rate of my local rental house. Even if it's my equipment I use the rental rate. Mark that up around 25%, add in trucking and material costs and hope I'm right<br>

[paul]

I said the last time :) we installed sdging.<br>It was at a DOE plant bit*h to work at safety people all over the place and needed &quot;permit &quot; to install any material just for plants would have to have meetings and locates to find any wires or such in ground. Not a fun site to work at:)<p>----------<br>paul<br>

[thelawnguy]

Heres my bid: 10 yards screened loam my cost 190 delivered charge to customer $250. Spreading and hand grading should take 2 1/2 man hours and thats not busting my hump so charge to customer $125. Edging 32 feet at 2.50/foot is $80 charge to customer. Your berm is covering approx 80 square feet so 3 inches mulch a yard will do it, my cost $20 charge to customer $50 installed.<p>My material costs are 240.Id charge $505, 30 tax total job $535 doing this myself, and Id figure, if the guy delivering the loam shows up by 8 Ill be at the next job by lunch. grab the mulch at the garden supply center along with the commercial edging. And you havent given a clue whether you have one plant or a hundred so Ill assume Ill be planting one marigold and Ill do that no extra charge!<p>Yeah I think you are high on your price unless your crew consists of three shovel props.<p>Bill

[Stonehenge]

I don't think you're price is high. I just landed a small contract to prepare the base for a brick patio. The area will be pre-excavated, all I need to do is bring in the base and prep. Me and two guys, should take 2-3 hours. Material costs, including delivery: $60. Charge to customer: $1,050. But it does require a bit more expertise and tools/eqpt than spreading soil and the like does.<p>My question is this: You seem to already have all the answers. Why ask the question?

[John Deere]

Stonehedge, I completely agree with you on the price. I feel very comfortable on my prices and think I'm right in line. The reason I asked the ? is the same reason I think a lot of people are on this site, a second opinion. This site allows us to all get somewhat of a verification on what we are charging and if it's in-line or not. I now have my bid drawn up and it goes something like this.<p>Bid for 10 ft burm in diameter:<p>3 man crew: $35.00 per man hr.<br>2 1/2 - 3 hrs. @$105 per hr. $260 - $315 labor, includes dirt prep, edging install, mulch prep/install and plantings. <p>3 cu. yards of mulch @ $20 per yard = $60<br>(We stock our own hardwood shreaded mulch our cost is $6.15 per yard)<p>Dirt delivery and cost 10 cu. yards = $70<p>Cost of edging $60<p>Total: $450 - $505<p>So I really don't know why my bid is high ( says the lawnguy) since it's the same as his, but I see in his bid his materials are much higher in cost. I don't know if that's because of the area or what, but the prices on my materials are not guesses, but are almost to the penny. I guess when it comes down to it the total is the important part and it sounds like we ar all on the same page on that. Thanks for all your help!<br>

[thelawnguy]

Johndeere originally writes: &quot;I am bidding it at $40 per man hr. and am figuring it at 3 hours. Plus I will add the cost of edging and plants. So I am figuring $360 plus materials.&quot;<p>Then two days later writes: &quot;3 man crew: 35.00 per man hr.2 1/2 - 3 hrs. @$105 per hr. $260 - $315 labor&quot;<p>So, which is it? 2 1/2 or 3 hours? 35 or 40/hour? Thats a 100 difference, which is 20 per cent difference from what you originally figured, so, I suppose that you did originally figure high. Yeah your bids the same as mine esp after you change it later in the thread. <p>Better get all this in writing for your customer to sign. You're about as clear on your bid as a fat man in a phone booth.<p>&quot;Total: $450 - $505&quot;<p>&quot;the prices on my materials are not guesses, but are almost to the penny. I guess when it comes down to it the total is the important part and it sounds like we ar all on the same page on that.&quot;<p>With all due respect 260-315 sounds like a guess to me. Where Im from, when folks want a quote that is what they want not a range. A quote like that would never fly around here.<p>Bill<p>

[John Deere]

Lawnguy, sounds like you have all the answers. I'll just make sure to direct my qustions to you next time and not bother getting others opinions on this site which is what I was doing to get this bid thus changing my original price. With all due respect Bill, your reply is unnecessary and not warranted. I can't stand people who feel that have to reply in haste. I was just stating my opinion on my bid with another person and not calling you wrong by any means and then I get this crap. These kind of replies sour me REAL quick! I have not ONCE squabbled with ANYONE on this site since the beginning until now. I have even had a couple of &quot;remarks&quot; from Mr. Stone and not ever said a word. My theory when I don't agree with someone is not to say anything at all than to say something stupid. I guess maybe in closing you should just ask yourself, did it really matter &quot;to you&quot; that I changed how I was doing my bid?

[thelawnguy]

hey John you wrote, &quot;So I really don't know why my bid is high ( says the lawnguy) since it's the same as his&quot; so I pointed out to you WHY I thought it was high, and why it WASNT the same as his.<p>Dont go copping an attitude, it was YOUR information I was quoting not mine, I suppose its hard to answer a question when 1) the question keeps changing and 2) the right answer keeps changing.<p>Bill

[lawrence stone]

The part that I don't get is why was the<br>original question placed in the commercial lawn care forum.<p>There is a specific forum for landscaping questions.

[tjg]

I thought that you asked the question too get the right price, so why is this ---- guy jumping all over you for asking a question and it shouldn't matter wheather there is another forum, the reason he asked it over here is this gets alot more hits then the &quot;landscaping forum&quot;. I believe building a burm in a lawn IS part of LAWN WORK. The forum is not called mowing only questions.