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View Full Version : 2000 International 4700 switch-n-go system for sale


CrewCutEnterprises
12-31-2005, 11:34 AM
I found this just browsing ebay

I can decied if i want an international or an f550.....

Any ideas

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4600193983&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Gilla Gorilla
12-31-2005, 11:44 AM
That looks like a really nice truck. But then it all depends on how much you have to pay to win the bid. Have you looked up the book value on it to see how much it is worth?

South Florida Lawns
12-31-2005, 12:22 PM
Judging from the pics its a clean rig and relatively low mileage for a commercial vehicle of that year.

MacLawnCo
12-31-2005, 01:10 PM
I cant believe you are comparing a 4700 to a 550. The 550 is a toy compared to the 4700. They are not even in the same class. If you NEED it, get the 4700.

CrewCutEnterprises
12-31-2005, 01:23 PM
a few answers

The 4700 for sale is a penske lease truck with a 20 ft body, taken off fram cut after spring hangers and the 16,000 switch n go system bolted on including the fenders and the drop box.

So. If you can get an international truck for 15,000 great. There is a dealer in Del selling one with 141 k miles for 29,900 and one with 120k for 35,000.
Value,, yea its worth every penny if you ask etwman

Mac.....

Comparing an 550 to a 4700 is like comparing apples to oranges i agree. but there are problems....

Pros of 550
Dealer right around the corner
can tow 7000 lb trailer without cdl, being under 26k gvw.
Better gas mileage, aprox 10 to 14 mpg.
easier to park etc.

Cons
Doesnt hold as much volume (12 ft body)
cant hold as much weight

Pros of 4700
Dealer about 15 mins away
**could tow 3000 lb trailer,(12x6) or leaf loader. if derated to 22,500 lbs still dont need a cdl, being under 26k gvw.
will hold about 15 to 17 yards mounded. 14ft body
will hold 22 yards with removable chipper top(leaves)
Better view of the road.

Cons
7-9 mpg
can tow no trailer!!! unless **


Also, you are not just getting one truck, I would get a few drop boxes for roll off services for some of my friends companies to who do roof tear offs and construction.

if you have never seen www.bucksfab.com go there. lots of bodies

UNISCAPER
12-31-2005, 01:51 PM
You also left off of cons to the 550....Engine problems with the 6.0 and or V-10 too numerous and costly to list. Transmission problems from the inception too numerous and costly to list. Your truck will be down more than it works, and who pays the bill when it's down?????

Go cornpicker.

Gravel Rat
12-31-2005, 02:30 PM
It doesn't say what engine it has I would have said the International until I seen it was a uhhg automatic. It also doesn't say what engine it has if its a 7.3 PSD its grossly underpowered it also doesn't say what size axles it has.

I personally would go with the All Haul rolloff system www.rolloff.net its more like a conventional rolloff system its better in my mind I have run fullsize rolloff trucks. Or my second choice and you probably can find a little easier would be a DEL Loadmaster Mini Rolloff system www.delequipment.com

You really do want rails that touch the ground so it guides the can on the rails it also takes the load off the truck. You could technically lift the front wheels of the truck off the ground with a dead lift system like that Switch and go. Your also limited to their boxes because you need the ones with that special snipe (very expensive). You want a universal system so you can buy any kind of box and easily modify it.

You second option is a hooklift its more expensive but for a F-550 sized truck it would be more landscaper friendly as you could use it as a dump truck where as with a conventional rail you don't have the dump angle.

To sum it up if I was going to go with a 5 ton or bigger truck conventional rail if I was going with a 350-550 size truck it would be a hooklift.

Its your choice I would prolly stay small scale if you want to stick with the landscaping etc. Once you get into rolloff trucks you really need a tandem axle where you can haul a 40 yard bin. The 3 ton trucks like the 4700 International will be too big for some jobs and too small for others. Where as with the 550 you can get bins into peoples back yards or other tight spots. You would do the jobs where a tandem axle won't fit so it will require multiple trips.

You figure a 550 will have about 7000lbs "Legal" carrying capacity after the hoist and bin that equals allot of light wood debris or bush or junk from peoples basements.

Like I said if you serious about going into the trash business then go with a tandem the medium duties there isn't enough work for them. When a demolition contractor is doing a tear down they want to haul away large loads. I think you want to specialize in residential service like hauling way residential junk like old wood laying in peoples back yards.

Thats the business I'am in "Junk removal" and general landscaping and clean up.

Jpocket
12-31-2005, 02:34 PM
Have you considered a chevy or Gmc 4500 or 5500 with a duramax, you get more gvw than a f-550, and it might cost a little less than an International. Personally I would scratch the fords off your list, atleast until they stop having problems with the 6.0 and there transmissions.

Gravel Rat
12-31-2005, 03:19 PM
Wait a minute he doesn't have to buy a brandnew F-550 he can try find a pre 6.0 truck and get one with a 5spd, automatics should be banned from any truck larger than a 1 ton.

One of the local disposal companies bought a 91 F-450 with a hooklift system and boxes it was brandnew bought it in 91 it cost him close to 60,000 dollars. A brandew F-550 with a hook lift hoist you will easily spend that or more.

Find a low mileage F-550 for 20,000 dollars then buy the rolloff system which will cost around 15,000 dollars your only into a truck for 35,000 then you have money for some bins. You don't jump both feet first into a truck that you don't know is going to create big money.

Once you start making money and you see that its going to work out then go buy a newer truck.

As for the problems Bill has had I think its from the people that drive his trucks. I know alot of companies that run nothing but Ford this is pretty much Ford country and we have 10% grade hills and guys are running their trucks to max gvw they are not having major break downs.

The local building suppliers run F-550 trucks for small deliveries putting 10,000lbs onto the trucks going into sites where the roads are steep enough they need a backhoe to pull them up. Some places you travel couple miles on a single width forestry serice road which is fairly rough to get to the building site.

UNISCAPER
12-31-2005, 05:32 PM
"As for the problems Bill has had I think its from the people that drive his trucks."

Since the inception of the 6.0 Ford and TS tranny, there have been 58 lawsuites, 14,000 customer complaints, and 77 that's ruight, 77 service bulletins. I only wish I had 14,000 trucks.

Second, explain why, if it is the people driving, that with the SAME people driving GM products, we have not had one single problem??????????

Gravel Rat, you need to think before you write anything. I find it very interesting that after only having had a few select Ford trucks you are now a renowned expert on how my companies employees treat the jobs they have had for some many years. You know nothing about our company, our operations, or the terrain we operate in and yet you are qualifying yourself to make an ignorant statement like that one.

Maintain a fleet for any length of time and you will see what costs your company and what makes you money. I'll say it again. Ford trucks are the most expensive we have ever maintained over the long haul.

You also need to look at the thousands of problems so many people have had with Ford trannies, Ford engines, and just basic Fordisms that can't be corrected.. Ford trucks have not been made to perform serious work for a number of years.

tnmtn
12-31-2005, 07:22 PM
is 7-9 mpg all a 4700 gets?

CrewCutEnterprises
12-31-2005, 11:39 PM
Geeze dident think i would get this many responses.

If... I got a 550 it would be a 99 or 2000. I like the 7.3 liter v8. I worrie about the 6.0 liter.

About auto tranny's. 5 speed will last longer (mostly) but auto is easier to drive. And preferable in a work truck to me.

Be back with more information in a moment

CrewCutEnterprises
01-01-2006, 12:13 AM
here is a price list for a switch-n-go system for a

f550

11-520-12E-PW 12,000 lbs loading capacity. $8,500.00
9 tons dump capacity at 50 degrees.
BUMP-82-REES Bumper with Reese Receiver Hitch $580.00
FEN-19.5-SS Stainless Steel Fenders $745.00
Fuel-Fill-Ford Fuel filler bracket $50.00
Mud-flap-bracket Mud flap brackets and Factory Mud Flaps $50.00
INSTALLATION 10 Hours Labor
Total $9,925.00

Body is about 2500.00 holds 14 yards

For an international

14-620-15E-PW 15,000 lbs loading capacity. $10,200.00
13.5 tons dump capacity at 50 degrees.
BUMP-90 Bumper with Reese Receiver $580.00
FEN-PL Plastic fenders for 22.5 tires. $555.00
Mud Flap Mud Flap brackets with factory flaps $50.00
INSTALLATION 10 Hours Labor

Total $11,385.00

body is about 3500 and holds 17 yards.

CrewCutEnterprises
01-01-2006, 12:33 AM
You really do want rails that touch the ground so it guides the can on the rails it also takes the load off the truck. You could technically lift the front wheels of the truck off the ground with a dead lift system like that Switch and go.
I thought about that... But it would have to be alot of weight.

Your also limited to their boxes because you need the oneswith that special snipe (very expensive). You want a universal system so you can buy any kind of box and easily modify it..
Thought of that too, other systems just seemed sooooo expensive. I do like the switch n go because you can lift to say 25 degrees and lower it to the ground aliitte for unloading some mulch in wheel barrows etc. The swithc n go is unique in that the rails dont go the ground like most. correct??? Thats is why the front of the boxes are angled??? but with the switch n go, i can tow a trailer because i dont have the long frame rails sticking out..


To sum it up if I was going to go with a 5 ton or bigger truck conventional rail if I was going with a 350-550 size truck it would be a hooklift.Hoock lifts cost to much, and they angle the load too much i think

Its your choice I would prolly stay small scale if you want to stick with the landscaping etc. Once you get into rolloff trucks you really need a tandem axle where you can haul a 40 yard bin. The 3 ton trucks like the 4700 International will be too big for some jobs and too small for others. Where as with the 550 you can get bins into peoples back yards or other tight spots. You would do the jobs where a tandem axle won't fit so it will require multiple trips.

You figure a 550 will have about 7000lbs "Legal" carrying capacity after the hoist and bin that equals allot of light wood debris or bush or junk from peoples basements.

I think you want to specialize in residential service like hauling way residential junk like old wood laying in peoples back yards.

Thats the business I'am in "Junk removal" and general landscaping and clean up.
Ok, i live in annapolis, and they are rebuilding all the houses on 1/8 acre and 1/4 acre lots and most dont have room for 40 yard containers..
Also. the 550 will probably do.
Mostly I woouldnet even buy drop boxes for atleast a year or 2. I was going to have a combo box made that could spread gravel(combo door) and would have a removable chipper top for doing leaves in the fall. and when renting a wood chipper.

ultimatly... Im still unsure,. for f550 are hard to find in a used chassis cab.. auto. internationals are easy, just go to a penske lease place
also check out http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=37810&page=15&highlight=switch-n-go

Gravel Rat
01-01-2006, 02:43 AM
There isn't many Chevys used here anymore they fall apart the trucks with IFS is junk. Like I meantioned a few times before there are prolly couple thousand Ford P/U trucks used for work trucks by the forestry contractors spend 80% of their life in 4wheeldrive beating over roads you probably never dream of driving. If Ford didn't build a good truck they wouldn't be buying them. When you got guys making 30 dollars per hour you have to have reliable trucks to get them to work.

My familly has been running Ford trucks for over 40 years never had problems they serve our trucking needs well.

Gravel Rat
01-01-2006, 03:23 AM
Second post

Like I meantioned I'am not so keen on the way the switch and go is built you do know a conventional rail roll off system is cheap to build. If you have a good competent welding fab shop in your area they could easily build the rails in a week.

When I priced out what it would cost me to build a rolloff system for my F-450 it was significantly cheaper than buying one made already.

That Switch and Go is very very easy to build all it is a scissor hoist,winch and rails. A scissor hoist is around 2000 dollars,winch 1500 dollars and the steel 1000 dollars so around 4500 dollars for materials.

CrewCutEnterprises
01-01-2006, 11:07 AM
yes i know i thought of that... and they charge 9000 for it.

I also saw this idea where they took a regular flat bed dump and welded rails and a winch on it. now they had their rail dump. very good idea..

The reason i shy away from the rail system on a 550 truck is we would be towing a trailer and the rail system protrudes pretty far from the back from under the container..

still, i dont know.. the delequipment place looks nice.

UNISCAPER
01-01-2006, 11:57 AM
Hook lift and switch and go trucks will not perform as well as a reeving hoist roll off, which comparatively, is in the same price as a hook lift. Any box that is lifted at the top of the bulkhead rather than the bottom of the rails will place different geometry on the lift. More often than not, I have seem top style hook containers left on the ground from over loading.

If you look at a 5 year old 550, it will have that 4R100 piece of crap tranny, which, inevitably will fail on you with that weight truck once a year. Secondly, the 550 frame is not what you are going to need to use a hook lift or roll off on a daily basis, it is a hobby truck made to sound strong by it's nomenclature. The frame rails are not strong enough to continually use a roll off style truck, and the transmission will cost you $2,000.00 per year plus the down time to keep up with.
You also mention towing. With a load on, the F-550 has no real capacity, unless you believe the stats pumped up and produced by all manufacturers.

Look past the 550 and enter into a 26,000 GVW truck, and that will handle everything you are looking to do. That is what we did, and having had both weight classifications working in our fleet with roll off bodies, the 45-5500 series work, just not as well as the 6500 series. So if you have to go Ford, look at the 650 and up. The 550 is not enough to do what you are looking to do. We have a very simlar demagraphic as you do, overpriced tiny properties, no room for anything. We can't put dirt on streets without fear of getting a 10,000 fine, so we use roll off containers to house everything and sweep the mess under the gate at the days end. The system is awesome, you just have too small of a truck to use it to it's capacity.

allaccesslandscaping
01-01-2006, 12:22 PM
bill,

How many people do you have working for you. Also how much equipment do you have.. Every time I see a diffrent fourm you have another piece of equipment... Just curious

CrewCutEnterprises
01-01-2006, 12:45 PM
take a look at his web site, that would give you an idea of the kind of equipment he has.

Great work by the way.


Bill, I feel the same way about going to a 25,500 gvw truck. I think its almost dumb not to go that big, everyone overworks their 550.

The f650's are over priced just like 550's. The internationals are very affordable.

for $30,000 i could buy a truck that would be very versitle. Use for job boxes. drop boxes, haul enough gravel for our regravel driveway jobs. Would haul 17 -20 yards of mulch and with the $1500.00 removable chipper top we could put 24 yards of leaves inside during the leaf removal season.

I could also use this truck to drop a box( for hardscapes) with all the tools needed at the job and pick it up when we are done..Then the guys who are workign that site just drive a pickup or a car to the site, they dont need a big truck because the equipment would already be on site.

So... I could Use it for maintenance.
Leaves, mulch, stone, topsoil

Design work, droping box and a empty box for removal debris

Roll-off work

My only concern is If it has to tow a trailer, being we have 2 other pick-ups to tow the trailers with. I guess ill secumb to getting a cdl license, as a truck at 25,500 gvw towing a trailer of 7-10 k would require a cdl.

also. Bill, could you take some pics of yoru roll off truck for me?? Thanks alot

UNISCAPER
01-01-2006, 12:52 PM
We had 14 on landscape. After the equipment add ons, we now have 9. So, we saved $200,000 in salaries not to forget the 33% labor burden we have in our state by adding 100,000 in equipment. No state gives incentive to employ people, they give incentive to add machinery that cuts labor, even if this machinery sits half a year (which it won't) it saved what it did.. The sooner you can train a crew to do the work and actually dive into management, the faster you gain wealth, growth, assuming all systems work.

As far as equipment. Small stuff like hand tools, we have a bunch. We use two lazer sytems, one just a single plain for leveling, pool tile and coping sn so fourth. The other is a dual plane which we have coupled to the stick of an excavator and the 257B for precision grading. Once again a labor saver.

We have several mini grinders, several elecrrtic wood saws, steel chop saw, miter saw, etc. We have 5 gas powered cut off saws, a Partner and 4 Husqvarnas. We have two 20" table saws of my own design running with 23HP Kohler twins. A 14" Edco table saw for pavers. We have a Bomag 36" pad foot Hatz deisel powered vibratory walk behind roller. We use that on paver base compaction, as well as soil compaction over Strata Grid. A must for anyone who wants to see 95% in a very short time. We have 2 small vibra-plates of yikafigion design, and one 14HP Lombardini diesel reversable Bomag vibra-plate. If you want to walk enough, that will hit 95%, but we mainly use it on the top layer of driveways just before sand screed, and right behind the Keystone walls, because you can't place rollers or tracks within 3' of wall faces. We have 2 Wells Cargo enclosed trailers, and one Dyna-Weld 25' dovetail 20 ton trailer. 2 257B series Caterpillars, 2 301.8 Caterpillar Mini X's with numerous buckets and a Dingo trencher attachment adapted to the stick. And last a Caterpillar D-3C.
Trucks we have 2 3500 Chevy Dmax/Allison combos, 1 4500 series roll off, 1 5500 series roll off, 1 6500 series roll off, and 2 Mack Vision, 16 liter, 550HP 10 speed roll offs. There are 4 employees who went from landscape to debris removal and delivery to our jobs. So, we are still one guy less than what we had before adding the machinery to the toy box.

Your question came at an opportune time. This is a new year, and a new year of opportunity for growth and as I preparing our equipment inventory list for an insurance audit....Yeck, why did I mention that, I hate insurance.......

UNISCAPER
01-01-2006, 01:03 PM
Crewcut:


I'll get some pictures up when my camera comes back...Second Cannon that the lens froze in the closed position.....Then I gotta figure out how to post them.....ARGH!

Anyhow, one more thing for you to ponder. I was very reluctant to get it, but when our dealers commercial fleet manager recommended installing a "tunnel box" behind the cab, it was one of the best things we ever got. It is 3' wide, as tall as the cab, and has two shelves for hand stuff. We load it off at the job, and place the tools in a large JobBox* on site. Most sites we work ar safe enough to leave things in the back yard but the new tracts have alot of illegal aliens working there who, will most likely cause your equipment to grow legs. That tunnel box is the way to go and it only adds 4' to the chassis length. If you are considering a larger truck, try to hook up with something loike the GM track lease. You place first and last payment down, then start the payment plan. After 5 years, you cut a check for a buck, and it's your truck. The payments are reported through D&B rather than the grossly unfair credit reporting systems most banks use to assess your financial health, so, the truck will not be reported through who they check and used against you on a debt to earn ratio report. The advantage to track lease is you decut 100% of the payments right then rather than taking depereciation after profit and tax from that. It penciled out better for us, and our payment is $1100 per month, and that includes the body, tunnel box, truck with Alcoa aluminum wheels, we got 9 speed stick with a Dmax engine, air, crank windows, key locks.

For the money, this truck rocks, and I don't think we will go under that weight class unless our job classifications change.

AintNoFun
01-01-2006, 03:39 PM
i must say that the cable system looks kinda cheezy though...

allaccesslandscaping
01-01-2006, 04:47 PM
Bill

r u saying the states have some kind of rebate programs. To buy equipment.
What are some of the websites that show the power wheel barrows

UNISCAPER
01-01-2006, 05:15 PM
No rebates Allaccess. The rebate comes when you don't have to send in that blood money to State Fund or if you are lucky enough to get a comp carrier who will write your company. You get double incentives when you don't have to match the amount of FICA you deduct to pay someone elses (your employees) tax burden.

You can go to Ingersol Rand's sitem you can also check out Multiquip products. Yanmar and Kubota both make track drive versions, and Komatsu even has a 5 yard track drive unit for tight spots.

Stick with the Multiquip or Ingersol units, they are good companies, and the size is more condusive to California tract housing lot sizes.

http://www.irutilityequipment.irco.com/default.aspx?MenuItemID=99 Try this link, it will show you what we have

CrewCutEnterprises
01-01-2006, 06:23 PM
Thanks for all the info bill...

As for the pictures, let me know when you get them and i can help you post them, or you can email them to me and ill post them. its pretty easy, just click the attach files button under the reply button.

The cable system on the switch n go is very common. Not just their units but on other cable lifts, for 26000 gvw trucks, or single axels roll offs..

I think i have decieded to get one,, maybe mid year.. we will see how it all goes

about the tunnel box yea i thought about it, or an i pac... someting like that,, I plan on putting a 60 inch underbody box on one side and a 24x24x60 mesh box on the other to store shovels etc.

Gravel Rat
01-02-2006, 12:47 AM
If your looking at a rolloff truck here is ones you should be looking at a single axle 5 ton www.truckpaper.com/images/truck/fullsize/72686198.jpg this truck is a 2006 Kenworth T-300 for 75,000 dollars.

Myself I think you will be fine with a F-550 sized truck I seriously doubt you are going to be production hauling bins. If your going into the trash business you go with a tandem if you want to haul smaller boxes you just move the stop dogs.

I have had a LT-9000 Ford with 22' rails and a 20' low side box into some pretty tight spots it just takes some wiggling.

A single axle rolloff truck will be just like a single axle dump which has a very limited payload. A truck with a 35,000lb gvw runs out of payload pretty quick it also lacks brakes to carry the load.

Before you make the investment make sure your area can support enough work to make the truck to pay for itself.

CrewCutEnterprises
01-02-2006, 05:05 PM
Here are some pictures of options

This is a 14 ft long storage body By ETWMAN. he is a member here a lawnsite.
He hauls a skid steer inside along with all the patio tools and drops it off at jobsite before work, and picks it up on completion..

I would buy one for the same reason.. very nice for 5000.00, then he got it 3m vynal wraped(i think)

CrewCutEnterprises
01-02-2006, 05:07 PM
here is a picture of a 14 ft flatbed.

Could haul skid steer, stone, A car.

I had the thought of using it to store a hydro seeder or a finn bark blower.. etc So manypossiblities...

CrewCutEnterprises
01-02-2006, 05:10 PM
Another picture from ETWMAN.

This is a picture of the dump body, which only cost 2500.00

Does anyone know how much these bodies weigh or evern a close guess.


And Gravel rat. a 75000 truck is alot... Too much. I dont plan on doing alot of trash hauling, just some, mostly for myself and when we do brush clearing etc.

Gravel Rat
01-02-2006, 05:41 PM
If you want a still fairly decent truck then look at a Sterling LT8500 single axle it will be better than the International and better than a Freightliner M2 or Business class.

I would stay away from used Rental trucks like Ryder,Penske etc the people that drive those trucks have the mentality well its not my truck so who cares.

There is a reason why the rental companies sell those trucks cheap as they have been thrashed on.

Jpocket
01-03-2006, 08:31 AM
There isn't many Chevys used here anymore they fall apart the trucks with IFS is junk. Like I meantioned a few times before there are prolly couple thousand Ford P/U trucks used for work trucks by the forestry contractors spend 80% of their life in 4wheeldrive beating over roads you probably never dream of driving. If Ford didn't build a good truck they wouldn't be buying them. When you got guys making 30 dollars per hour you have to have reliable trucks to get them to work.

My familly has been running Ford trucks for over 40 years never had problems they serve our trucking needs well.

Maybe where you at, but in this country the only trucks that make it past 20 years old and are still able to work every day are GM's. I'm sorry but I have yet to see a Ford older than the late 88's working full time everyday.
However i see atleast one chevy older than 1980 doing daily duty maybe once a week. Hell I just got rid of a 1976 Chevy c-30 Dually that truck worked SIX days a week and never complained. I currently have two 85 3/4 tons and a 1 ton, Id put any one of them against any PSD or ford gasser. What old ford do you know that can still work at 20+ years old and not nickel and dime it's owner to death.

UNISCAPER
01-03-2006, 08:57 AM
The problem with Ford is they quit making trucks back around 1980. They now make hobby vehicles used to pull loads of toys to fun places on weekend jaunts and they wanted to make sure the little missess was comfortable riding next dad pulling the camper.

Gravel Rat
01-03-2006, 03:03 PM
Most of the Chevys here rusted out you see the ODD old Chevy 1 ton. When you have a Forestry based community the most commonly bought truck is Ford. Chevy slit their own wrists when they went to independant front suspension on their 4x4s with no ground clearance their 3/4 ton and 1 ton 4x4 market dropped off to highway use only trucks.

You see the old retired people that head South for the winter buying Duramax P/Us because they are really low to the ground even a 4x4 so they are good for pulling their 5th wheel.

The real testimate to Ford trucks is they stand up to Forestry abuse I seriously doubt your P/U is carrying 3500-4000lbs of gear and travels over rough roads pretty much everyday. Some of these trucks only have the hubs unlocked couple times a year. The trucks range from 83 to 2003 you don't see Chev or Dodge doing that you can't take a IFS Chevy into bush the first swail in the road the truck is bottomed out.

Like I said the only time Chev is used is if the truck never leaves the pavement.

UNISCAPER
01-03-2006, 04:18 PM
Chevy slit their own wrists when they went to independant front suspension on their 4x4s with no ground clearance their 3/4 ton and 1 ton 4x4 market dropped off to highway use only trucks.

Just like Ford ran up until 1999 with that independant intergalactic swing arm crap that costs a small fortune to align.



The real testimate to Ford trucks is they stand up to Forestry abuse I seriously doubt your P/U is carrying 3500-4000lbs of gear and travels over rough roads pretty much everyday.

How much Canadian money do you want to loose with that statement?

All Fords do around here is pull toy boxes on weekends out to the dessert. The rest of the time they are in getting turbos, transmissions, and spark plug holes repaired.

Jpocket
01-03-2006, 04:56 PM
Most of the Chevys here rusted out you see the ODD old Chevy 1 ton. When you have a Forestry based community the most commonly bought truck is Ford. Chevy slit their own wrists when they went to independant front suspension on their 4x4s with no ground clearance their 3/4 ton and 1 ton 4x4 market dropped off to highway use only trucks.

You see the old retired people that head South for the winter buying Duramax P/Us because they are really low to the ground even a 4x4 so they are good for pulling their 5th wheel.

The real testimate to Ford trucks is they stand up to Forestry abuse I seriously doubt your P/U is carrying 3500-4000lbs of gear and travels over rough roads pretty much everyday. Some of these trucks only have the hubs unlocked couple times a year. The trucks range from 83 to 2003 you don't see Chev or Dodge doing that you can't take a IFS Chevy into bush the first swail in the road the truck is bottomed out.

Like I said the only time Chev is used is if the truck never leaves the pavement.


You have no argument, you said above that a chevy bottoms out in the MUD SOOOO..............if I put taller tires on a chevy and cranked the t-bars I would run over top of the fords. Thats pretty sad that you would judge a truck based on ground clearance which can be changed very easily. And as far as power and payload Chevy will still go head to head with a ford anyday. Chevy's ride down hill in the front so that when they are doing what they were made to do "Hauling heavy loads" they sit level. No like fords, if you spit in the bed of a ford they start squating.

UNISCAPER
01-03-2006, 05:04 PM
3/4 of the Ford morons judge the truck by the way it LOOKS....And I have to admit there, sadly, the Ford looks better than the current year Chevy, but the GMC gives the Ford a pretty good run for the money.

Buying any truck for it's looks is like being married to a beauty queen with big boobs who you have to beg and plead with to get your unit serviced more than once a year......

Jpocket
01-03-2006, 05:16 PM
3/4 of the Ford morons judge the truck by the way it LOOKS....And I have to admit there, sadly, the Ford looks better than the current year Chevy, but the GMC gives the Ford a pretty good run for the money.

Buying any truck for it's looks is like being married to a beauty queen with big boobs who you have to beg and plead with to get your unit serviced more than once a year......

Yea I have an 05' chevy which is nice but I think the GMC is AWSOME looking. it has a real classy look. I will admit thugh the Fords do look good they stand tall.

Gravel Rat
01-03-2006, 09:06 PM
Hey if you don't beleive me thats your problem you both are landscapers you probably don't know what real heavy industry is like. You start bragging up your Chevys to the resource contractors you would be smacked in the head.

Gilla Gorilla
01-03-2006, 09:23 PM
Bill I have to disagree with you about the Fords squating with spitting in the bed

Last year I was running 1800LBS of ballast in the bed of my 2002 F350 Dually 7.3 because I like to run in 4x2 most of the time when plowing. The truck did not sag in the rear versus the front, it actually road VERY nice and sat very level when parked.

Okay there is my 02 cents and I'm back out of the debate now.

As a side note Ford has redesigned the spark plugs for the Triton motors, they now have twice the threads that they used to so they dont pull out the threads in the heads now.

Jpocket
01-03-2006, 09:31 PM
Hey if you don't beleive me thats your problem you both are landscapers you probably don't know what real heavy industry is like. You start bragging up your Chevys to the resource contractors you would be smacked in the head.

What ever dude "Heavy" in my book is Ten-wheelers and up. If you wanna talk about Tri-axles and ten-wheelers we can talk about those too. 10,000gvw is not "Heavy industry" I don't care how beefy you think your Ford is it's not gonna out work a truck of the same GVW just because it's a ford.
73,000GVW is "heavy".:rolleyes:

Gravel Rat
01-03-2006, 10:25 PM
Like I said in the other post your only 19 so it says in your bio I have forgotten more about trucking than you know. So go back to your lawn mowing and leave the equipment hauling to guys like me that work with heavy equipment.

CrewCutEnterprises
01-03-2006, 11:53 PM
Have you considered a chevy or Gmc 4500 or 5500 with a duramax, you get more gvw than a f-550, and it might cost a little less than an International. Personally I would scratch the fords off your list, atleast until they stop having problems with the 6.0 and there transmissions.

Im not a big chevy fan, the duramax 6600 series motor in the 4500 and 550 is too small if you ask me, It's probably equil to a powerstroke, cant hold a candle a caterpilar c7 avalable in the 6500 series truck, but your are also looking at about 50k for a chassis cab


AS for all the bickering on MY thread. Stop it please, If it pertains to something that could or would help me, by all means share. Other wise please send emails to each other. That said


Chevy's ride down hill in the front so that when they are doing what they were made to do "Hauling heavy loads" they sit level. No like fords, if you spit in the bed of a ford they start squating..

Now with that statement, Im guessing you've never looked at a 99 and up ford 250 or 350 pickup. Both my trucks sit about 2.5 inches higher in the rear, they are raked (just like most work trucks) to the front.


Now Any pertinant information to my thread? What do you recommend in the $20,000 range for a used chassis truck 138" wb

Gravel Rat
01-04-2006, 01:18 AM
For the 20 grand mark you will have a little trouble finding a decent truck. You have to search truckpaper.com . You will need a wheelbase longer than 138 it will have to be around 161 or longer I assume you want to run 12' box with a 14' the longest ?

The number you have to keep in mind is the Cab axle measurement so your probably want a 84" Ca truck or a 108 Ca truck.

If you can find a used L series Ford that would make one heck of a rolloff truck as they have a true truck cab on them. They have a really good turning radius. They are also a nice looking truck :cool:

If you found yourself a used L or LN-8000 with 7.8 Ford Power or 8.3 Cummins power with a 6spd or even better a 8 spd.

Jpocket
01-04-2006, 11:37 AM
Like I said in the other post your only 19 so it says in your bio I have forgotten more about trucking than you know. So go back to your lawn mowing and leave the equipment hauling to guys like me that work with heavy equipment.

I've been around trucks and trucking for everyone of these 19 years...Nuff said.


SORRY FOR THE BICKERING:)

UNISCAPER
01-04-2006, 11:50 AM
"Im not a big chevy fan, the duramax 6600 series motor in the 4500 and 550 is too small if you ask me, It's probably equil to a powerstroke, cant hold a candle a caterpilar c7 avalable in the 6500 series truck, but your are also looking at about 50k for a chassis cab"

The 6600 Dmax works well in the 45-5500 series. To set the record straight, the 7800 Dmax is actually a more powerful engine surprisingly then the Cat C-7. I'm a big Cat fan, and was reluctant when they equipped our 6500 with the Dmax, but after running it, we can walk all over the Cat motor with similar loads.

To be exact, you will for a 208" wheelbase 6500, Aliminum wheels, roll a tarp, tunnel box, rear pintle hitch, trailer wires, plus 2 1/4" slider for small trailers, and a roll off body, be just under $54,000.00 for that truck.

Consider, rather than getting a used 20K truck which will inevitably need some type of additional expense to maintain it, that the payments on the 54K truck are comparative to the 20, as ridiculous as it may sound. I looked at the same stuff you are back about last September and it really penciled out in favor of the bigger cost truck.

Gravel Rat
01-04-2006, 01:05 PM
You guys have to stay away from the 3 ton trucks there isn't enough payload capacity. I know you guys have the redicoulous rule that you need a CDL to operate a truck over 26,000lbs which is absolutlely stupid. I guess your gov't doubts your guys ability to operate trucks ?

Get your CDL and run a 33-35,000lb truck atleast the truck will have some carrying capacity. It will also have some strength to it so when you back into a construction site and its muddy and the truck sinks your not going to snap a axle shaft.

You want the truck to have a carrying capacity with the body and hoist to atleast have a 5.5-6 ton payload.

CrewCutEnterprises
01-04-2006, 08:17 PM
[QUOTE=Gravel Rat]For the 20 grand mark you will have a little trouble finding a decent truck. You have to search truckpaper.com . You will need a wheelbase longer than 138 it will have to be around 161 or longer I assume you want to run 12' box with a 14' the longest ?

The number you have to keep in mind is the Cab axle measurement so your probably want a 84" Ca truck or a 108 Ca truck.

If you can find a used L series Ford that would make one heck of a rolloff truck as they have a true truck cab on them. They have a really good turning radius. They are also a nice looking truck :cool:
QUOTE]

Ok. im looking for a 138" cab to axel measurement. 14 would be the longest, and i believe the only size i could run.

The ford L series are nice, but hard to find, I could try.

About the CDL....
It does suck. A 25,500 gvw truck will have what a 10,000 lb payload? To me thats a large step up from.... 1800 lbs in a f350 srw. To me that is.

We dont haul heavy stuff that much, We haul gravel, tree's and the other largest thing is brush and then leaves in the fall.

Its not like we are hauling gravel all day every day. How ever we do overload our f350, weighing out of the gravel yard at 12-13000 lbs regularly when the gvwr is 9900 lbs.

That said, I've decieded to stratch out getting a ford f550 or a similar truck of that size, I will make my forman get a cdl and i guess i will also.

Also. Is that how the law works
25,500 gvw truck
10,000 gvw trailer
total cvwr over 26,000 requires cdl, right???

CrewCutEnterprises
01-04-2006, 08:19 PM
To be exact, you will for a 208" wheelbase 6500, Aliminum wheels, roll a tarp, tunnel box, rear pintle hitch, trailer wires, plus 2 1/4" slider for small trailers, and a roll off body, be just under $54,000.00 for that truck.

Consider, rather than getting a used 20K truck which will inevitably need some type of additional expense to maintain it, that the payments on the 54K truck are comparative to the 20, as ridiculous as it may sound. I looked at the same stuff you are back about last September and it really penciled out in favor of the bigger cost truck.

does that include the roll off body and hoist..?? or chassis cab?? Is that what you have? if so, would love some pictures

UNISCAPER
01-04-2006, 08:43 PM
It ncludes roll off rails/body and hoist. Boxes additional. I am waiting to get my digital back from the shop I have some shot promised to a couple people now.

Gravel Rat
01-04-2006, 10:07 PM
This is the type of truck you look for minus the flatdeck

www.truckpaper.com/images/truck/fullsize/72439966.jpg

Here is a single axle rolloff the only bad part its underpowered with a ISB but its probably what your looking for.

www.truckpaper.com/listings/forsale/Detail.asp?OHID=1007746&guid=7116A97778F14C95997E6463CFF9C46C

Sorry if I'am linking this wrong

etwman
01-05-2006, 08:32 AM
Hey guys -

Been watching this forum for a couple of days and just wanted to comment on a couple of things:

1. Gravel rat is right on the larger trucks. You truly do want something that will at least carry 5+ tons. It feels safer, it is safer, and your not overloaded. It is way too easy to overload a 1 ton truck. Our payload on our 26000 GVW is 10000, on our 33000GVW it is 17,000. These are nice loads to move around. Someone cuts you off and causes an accident and you end up killing someone when your overweight ...your done, I'm serious, it's just not worth the risk. Yes these truck are bigger but they are not huge. We stick our FL-70's anywhere we put our 3500 Dodge, you just use a little commonsense.

2. Since we put our Fl-70's on the road and did away with smaller trucks our vehicle maintenance cost in 05 was the lowest since we started the company. These truck are made for work. Bigger you go the better off you'll be. Ford 750...or whatever. And they'll last 5 times as long.

3. CDL nonsense. At least here in PA and we've found this out through random DOT stops. Our guys have CDL B. By law...and I know there is tons of discrepency on this....but trust me we have done our homework...you can drive any truck up to 80,000 and/or pull a trailer up to 10,000 pounds, although gross CGVW cannot exceed 80000. Once that trailer hits 10001 you need an A. Also now anything with air brakes here in PA requires a CDL. No more endorsements.

Just my two cents, don't mean to ruffle any feathers.

etwman.

Marek
01-05-2006, 09:11 AM
Etwman...
why are the leasing companies turning over trucks with 80k to 150k miles? Other than deprectiation. I looked at the Bucks system on a Isuzu and it looked very light duty.Do they make different models?Can someone post a link to Etwmans story on his rolloff that he built, it looks like it turned out really nice.

etwman
01-05-2006, 10:12 AM
The leasing companies are probably turning them over because they are out of warranty and they want to keep their fleet newer. You'll see these trucks out there from 90,000 miles to 400,000 miles. Depends on what the leasee is doing with them. If you have a careful eye you can find a really nice one.

Bucks offers that switch - n - go system for 350's up through fl-70's (or 26,000 GVW trucks) there was no difference in our frames from our 26k to our 33k so that's why we put it on out 33k as well. You just limit your picking up capacity to 15k off of the ground. Dumping is no problem. Their site is www.bucksfab.com.

The forum you were looking for is:

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=37810


Now there is one other point that I forgot to mention in the previous statement.

4. If you are planning a hauling business like gravel rat you seriously need to look at a commercial grade roll off system and a much bigger truck. This system that I have is not meant for that. You need really big cans to start throwing concrete, etc. Bigger cans = more weight and before you know it you're right back at the 350 vs. 26000K scenerio. We actually get roll off dumpsters for jobs 4-5 times a year when we are taking out concrete, etc. Heavy material can rip apart a body real quick. We aren't switching cans out 5-6 times a day. Maybe 5-6 times a week if that. It's made for a serious landscaper who needs a different body different days of the week. We haven't had any problems with it at all, like with a larger container truck use a little commonsense when picking up cans and you'll be fine. Bang for the buck you can't beat this type of system for smaller trucks. My two sense is if you are going to spend (just throwing figures here) $30,000 on a truck that's got a GVW of 17,500...go and get one that's 25,500 GVW for $5000 more...to me that's a no brainer. You can always shorten the wheel base if you don't like the length but at least you don't have a payload, safety, or liability issue.

On our 26k/33k truck we can legall carry 20 cy of mulch, 5 or 9 tons of stone, a new style track skid loader. Now listen here to this ....this is HUGE!. Most of these new track skid loaders, the bigger boys, you can't carry on a 10k trailer. You'll be overweight. You'll have to go get a bigger trailer and you'll probably end up with a CDL A. However, get a switch-n-go of decent size and you can, without a CDL. That is as long as your truck is 25,999k GVW and no air brakes here in PA. We can move any machine that is up to 13000 lbs. Keep in mind we have to pull it up on the truck, that's why it's not 15000. This is a huge asset to this type of system, but you'll need at least a 13 foot body to move most larger track skid loaders. The only thing we would do different is get a low profile truck. If your not careful you'll run into height restrictions with a mini-excavator on a truck. Sure we could change the tires on them now and drop them 6-8" but then we'll have gearing issues and the truck will whine out at 60 mph. You have to get a low pro from the factory set up and they are really hard to find used. It doesn't pay to convert it after the fact. Usually they have a wrecker roll off on them.

Just some things to think about.

Marek
01-05-2006, 10:23 AM
If you drop back to a low pro with 19.5 tires wont you be over weight on the tire capacity?

etwman
01-05-2006, 10:27 AM
Shouldn't be but I'm not 100% sure. These roll deck guys haul full size pick up's on them and I know that you get get a GMC6500 lo pro or non lo pro same GVW. I didn't research it a whole lot because we knew we weren't going to do it to our trucks. If I had to bet on it I'd say it wouldn't change it, but I'd do your homework on it first.

Gravel Rat
01-05-2006, 06:49 PM
If your running a low pro truck you loose quite abit of payload also you run into ground clearance problems.

Your better off running 22.5 low profile rubber if you want a lower profile truck.

mdb landscaping
01-06-2006, 07:12 AM
we went huge with our setup, but the ability to switch bodies is sweet! all our guys went out and got their CDLs awhile back. we have 3 dump trucks that require cdls now, but its worth it.

Gravel Rat
01-06-2006, 05:14 PM
A tandem is the way to go with a rolloff because it is so versitile. I wouldn't mind having mdb truck minus the lift axle we don't use them hear. That system must have good dumping capabilities with the rams that push straight up and down.

I like the idea of having a rolloff hydroseeder body.

CrewCutEnterprises
01-06-2006, 06:07 PM
Hey guys -

Been watching this forum for a couple of days and just wanted to comment on a couple of things:

1. Gravel rat is right on the larger trucks. You truly do want something that will at least carry 5+ tons. It feels safer, it is safer, and your not overloaded. It is way too easy to overload a 1 ton truck. Our payload on our 26000 GVW is 10000,

2. Since we put our Fl-70's on the road and did away with smaller trucks our vehicle maintenance cost in 05 was the lowest since we started the company. These truck are made for work. Bigger you go the better off you'll be. Ford 750...or whatever. And they'll last 5 times as long.

3. CDL nonsense. At least here in PA and we've found this out through random DOT stops. Our guys have CDL B. By law...and I know there is tons of discrepency on this....but trust me we have done our homework...you can drive any truck up to 80,000 and/or pull a trailer up to 10,000 pounds, although gross CGVW cannot exceed 80000. Once that trailer hits 10001 you need an A. Also now anything with air brakes here in PA requires a CDL. No more endorsements.

Just my two cents, don't mean to ruffle any feathers.

etwman.

Ok, Im back. I found out the price on the international truck with the switch n go is for sale for 29,999.

Well. #1 I agree I want someone safe, we all do. I also want a truck that wont tie me down to drive it when it has to be driven. I want to be able to expand and im worried if i buy too large of a truck it will be hard to find cdl drivers (IF) i loose one of my guys.

#2 I havent decieded on a F650, International Or freightliner. The Ford and international dealers are 10 minutes from me, which is great, the freightliner dealer is about 30 mins.

#3 CDL. I will get my CDL Just to have one. Also, the CDL B is easier than the CDL A. I Think. O and Random DOT Stops...Gotta Love those...

CrewCutEnterprises
01-06-2006, 06:24 PM
4. If you are planning a hauling business like gravel rat you seriously need to look at a commercial grade roll off system and a much bigger truck. This system that I have is not meant for that. You need really big cans to start throwing concrete, etc. Bigger cans = more weight and before you know it you're right back at the 350 vs. 26000K scenerio. We actually get roll off dumpsters for jobs 4-5 times a year when we are taking out concrete, etc. Heavy material can rip apart a body real quick. We aren't switching cans out 5-6 times a day. Maybe 5-6 times a week if that. It's made for a serious landscaper who needs a different body different days of the week. We haven't had any problems with it at all, like with a larger container truck use a little commonsense when picking up cans and you'll be fine. Bang for the buck you can't beat this type of system for smaller trucks. My two sense is if you are going to spend (just throwing figures here) $30,000 on a truck that's got a GVW of 17,500...go and get one that's 25,500 GVW for $5000 more...to me that's a no brainer. You can always shorten the wheel base if you don't like the length but at least you don't have a payload, safety, or liability issue.

On our 26k/33k truck we can legall carry 20 cy of mulch, 5 or 9 tons of stone, a new style track skid loader. Now listen here to this ....this is HUGE!. Most of these new track skid loaders, the bigger boys, you can't carry on a 10k trailer. You'll be overweight. You'll have to go get a bigger trailer and you'll probably end up with a CDL A. However, get a switch-n-go of decent size and you can, without a CDL. That is as long as your truck is 25,999k GVW and no air brakes here in PA. We can move any machine that is up to 13000 lbs. Keep in mind we have to pull it up on the truck, that's why it's not 15000. This is a huge asset to this type of system, but you'll need at least a 13 foot body to move most larger track skid loaders. The only thing we would do different is get a low profile truck. If your not careful you'll run into height restrictions with a mini-excavator on a truck. Sure we could change the tires on them now and drop them 6-8" but then we'll have gearing issues and the truck will whine out at 60 mph. You have to get a low pro from the factory set up and they are really hard to find used. It doesn't pay to convert it after the fact. Usually they have a wrecker roll off on them.

Just some things to think about.

#4 My thought exactly about the track loader or skid steer. Around here the demo Guys drop off a 20 yrd can with a skid steer inside it with a guy and he does the demo( mostly house cleanup etc) and loads the box.

I think i could get away from trailers entirely with using a 14 ft switch n go body. or an American Roll off body. http://www.americanrolloff.com.

This would be more of a landscaping truck than used for hauling. I thought it would be nice to have the option of starting a hauling division though. Im not sure which way to go. switch n go or a cable roll off. I kinda like to keep my options open and when I looked at new ford f550's for 40,000. It's a no brainer to buy a interchangable body truck.

Thanks alot ETW. I was hoping you would find this, You guys do great work. Any new updated pictures? Do your freightliners have air ride seats? How much do the drop boxes that you have weigh?(Im looking at the same system) Also any pictures of the inside of the storage body with the track loader in there?

More pictures. Im sure we all would agree. I think 5 tons of hauling capacity would be fine for me for the next. hmm 5 years atleast.

Thanks Everyone, Jason.

turfquip
01-06-2006, 07:08 PM
Mine's a FL 60 Lo Pro w/swaploader 22K system. Yeah, that's way more lift capacity than i need but I figure its better that way. A couple of mistakes I made that you will want to avoid when shopping for a medium are:

a) look for a 7 speed synchro. Mine is a 5 speed and I really only use the last 4. I regret this but am able to overlook it because even still, the truck is so productive compared to anything I had previously. It takes a little longer to get to each job but that's OK... I am never in a hurry. I added Alpine, JL Audio, and XM to make the ride a little more enjoyable. Next time I'll have all that AND a 7 speed.

b) watch your front axle weight. A longer box obviously places more weight over the rear axle, where you want it. Adding a job box behind the cab, or better yet, finding an extended cab truck makes good sense in my opinion.

A final note which is applicable to MY style of landscaping and maybe not yours is that while my truck's tare weight with the 18 foot flatbed rolloff is 16,700#, I have yet to carry a payload over 5,000#, so I have plenty of GVW left. But again, I do small jobs.

Gravel Rat
01-06-2006, 07:10 PM
The thing with that International is the axles look like they are small so you don't have any reserve capacity. Also it doesn't say what that truck has for power.

As for the F-650 I wouldn't consider it if I was going with International I would go new a "International Bug". I'am not so sure on the Freightliner M2 Business class they are kinda cheaply built. Hino is making a nice little conventional cab truck you can look into them. I meantioned Sterling if I was on a budget its probably what I would buy.

I personally would stay away from the automatics because when it decides to crap out boy its expensive to replace. Also the automatics rob power from the engine a 6 spd is pretty easy to drive.

If you go with International you want the 466E 210hp plus engine or the 530 300hp engine if you go with other brands stay away from the Mercedes good when they are new but the parts cost will kill you. If you go with Cummins get a truck with the 8.3 ISC the 5.9 ISB is way too frigging small. The 3126 (C-7) Cat isn't too bad its got its teething problems but every engine does.

CrewCutEnterprises
01-06-2006, 07:30 PM
The thing with that International is the axles look like they are small so you don't have any reserve capacity. Also it doesn't say what that truck has for power.

As for the F-650 I wouldn't consider it if I was going with International I would go new a "International Bug". I'am not so sure on the Freightliner M2 Business class they are kinda cheaply built. Hino is making a nice little conventional cab truck you can look into them. I meantioned Sterling if I was on a budget its probably what I would buy.

I personally would stay away from the automatics because when it decides to crap out boy its expensive to replace. Also the automatics rob power from the engine a 6 spd is pretty easy to drive.

If you go with International you want the 466E 210hp plus engine or the 530 300hp engine if you go with other brands stay away from the Mercedes good when they are new but the parts cost will kill you. If you go with Cummins get a truck with the 8.3 ISC the 5.9 ISB is way too frigging small. The 3126 (C-7) Cat isn't too bad its got its teething problems but every engine does.


Geeze you know your stuff. That truck for sale has the 444te? or 444e?
If i bought one it would be the 466e. I think its the most common and easy to find.

What is an international bug?? Also, Sterling dealer is not close. 45 mins.

What motor options are their for the freightliners... cummings or cat, right?

Gravel Rat
01-06-2006, 09:27 PM
Yuck thats what I thought that truck is 444E power which is a Powerstroke but its the International version. I think you will find that truck really underpowered the PSD is good in P/U trucks and light school busses but for a medium duty truck not good. The 466E is a I-6 its tried and true a really good engine it will provide you with good power and cheaper to fix it will also go allot longer mileage wise. You will also get better fuel mileage the 444 will be b*lls to the walls I think your right foot would get a good cramp.

As for International Bug the reason why we call it that is the hood and headlights look like a bug the head lights are bugs eyes :laugh:

With Freightliners the new ones mostly Mercedes I imagine you could get a pretty good deal on a M2. You can order a M2 100 with Mercedes or Cat so you will have a choice between the C-7 Cat or the MBE 900 (Mercedes).

Marek
01-06-2006, 09:48 PM
The 444 is a weak motor , so stay away from that.The 5.9 Cummins is fine for the use that you want to use the truck for.I have one in my 32k # motorhome that we turned up and it will fly, even pulling a 6k # trailer. If you are dealing with Koons ask for Mike Allen , no better salesman in the world.I too have been looking into building a roll off truck , more as a versitile truck than a trash hauler.The one concern I have about the Ford is the resale value is the pits for a 650 or 750 compared to other trucks.Elliott Wilson on the shore has a new swap loader that I want to run over and look at. I personally think I like the idea of building a used one better.Used chassis and new roll off system.There is a body company in Jessup that has a Bucks demo there.I think it was McCann.

CrewCutEnterprises
01-07-2006, 09:52 AM
Yea, Marek, I noticed you were local

Elliot wilsons trucks are nice, i stoped by once, but i cant drop 60k on a new truck.

Also. Bayshore ford in wilmington is a switch n go dealer and will build you a truck http://www.bayshoretrucks.com/?page=search.php 29,999 for that one too.

Im going to go to the penske truck place in B more today to take a look at some trucks. Its almost easier to let someone build it to my spec and have then deal with the body removal, frame chopping and disposal of the body. Im looking for a 20 ft box truck. That would keep my frame the right length.

Im still leaning toward the switch n go system as is doesnt add alot of weight

Marek
01-07-2006, 10:26 AM
There is a Ryder truck dealer in Laurel on Rt 1 past Acadamy Ford.Baltimore International looks like they have a lot of used trucks . They are at 695 and rt 1.The dealer in Baltimore , are they off of Cove Rd off 695?

CrewCutEnterprises
01-07-2006, 11:02 AM
not sure, I have the address in the big truck trader. there is an international used truck center. at 4030 north point road in b more md 1888 514 8173

cant find the other one..

Marek
01-07-2006, 10:15 PM
If you dont mind let me know what you are pricing in our area.I have been tied up with the new wife and my 3 boys wrestling 7 days a week. Just from shopping via internet I still like the idea of buying a box truck then removing the box and installing a lift system.If we compare notes we can probably save each other alot of time and headaces.Thanks..... Marc

CrewCutEnterprises
01-08-2006, 07:47 PM
Ok, So I've found the dt466 is a great motor. I never knew the dt444 is a 7.3 liter power stroke.

What i dont know anything about is the Internationals transmissions. They have auto and 5 speed? Which is better, pros and cons as i am looking into an auto for easy driving ablity.

etwman
01-08-2006, 08:11 PM
My opinion -

We have 6 speeds in our FL-70's with the 3126 in both...210 hp. I definitely wouldn't go less than 210, and stay away from automatics. We turned them both up a little and that gave us the extra hp that we needed.

When we first were looking into cab and chassis we were looking for Internationals but what we wanted was too hard to find. We wanted the DT466 (230 hp) with the 6+1 manual transmission with air brakes in a lo pro. That's like looking for a diamond in the ruff.

Jason, if you want to stop up and look at our trucks if it helps you any let me know. You're probably not more than an hour and a half away.

etwman

CrewCutEnterprises
01-08-2006, 09:15 PM
My opinion -

We have 6 speeds in our FL-70's with the 3126 in both...210 hp. I definitely wouldn't go less than 210, and stay away from automatics. We turned them both up a little and that gave us the extra hp that we needed.

When we first were looking into cab and chassis we were looking for Internationals but what we wanted was too hard to find. We wanted the DT466 (230 hp) with the 6+1 manual transmission with air brakes in a lo pro. That's like looking for a diamond in the ruff.

Jason, if you want to stop up and look at our trucks if it helps you any let me know. You're probably not more than an hour and a half away.

etwman
I will probably be taking you up on that offer. I would love to come see your trucks. Sometime in the next month or 2? Would that be fine?

I've driven the frieghtliner ambulances in auto and they are almost ****** proof. They turn sharper than my f350. I have yet to drive a 138 inch wheelbase international so i think i should do that.

Thanks for all the help every one

I've checked http://www.usedtrucks.ryder.com/start/Default.aspx

I've found a few lo pro's Would that be a better idea to keep the height of the truck down?? http://www.usedtrucks.ryder.com/Vehicle/SearchVehicle.aspx

etwman
01-09-2006, 07:55 AM
February would be better than Jan because I am headed to Mississippi here tomorrow back Wed, then down again next week till the end of the month. Other than that any time would be fine after the 26th of jan so just let me know and I'll make sure the trucks are here.

I'm not sure whether I mentioned this in my other forum but www.trucktrader.com is where we found both trucks. That's a pretty good site. Also check www.hammertrucks.com I know they have a couple 26k trucks that are cab over/air ride. That would be a great truck. Ebay may not be bad but I would go and look at them first.

CrewCutEnterprises
01-09-2006, 08:23 PM
Thanks alot!

Also. Contact me when you get back. Good work and good luck working down there in mississippi.

Thanks for everyone elses help and information too

turfquip
01-10-2006, 05:23 PM
A used Freightliner is a great choice for our business. They are not luxurious, but they are plentiful and you can often find a low miler with a box. Sell the box to finance tires/brakes/whatever.

Don't overlook the really long wheelbase c/c units either 'cause most upfitters are adept at shortening frames.

I had my FL 60 wacked to the optimum Swaploader 222 configuration. When I bought it it had a fixed, aluminum 26 foot flatbed which I couldn't use. I think the wheelbase was like, 256".

The point is - these super long wheelbase class 6 c/c's are often available cheap enough to justify the cost of modifications

Also, don't wait around looking for the 'perfect' used medium duty with all your wish list items fulfilled. Unless you are spec'ing a new truck, you are wise to compromise on a few things in order to get rubber on the road.

BTW the Cummins B can be, and often is, turned up to well ever 300 horsepower. Dodge pick up folks take em up way over 400 horses.

CrewCutEnterprises
01-10-2006, 11:21 PM
A used Freightliner is a great choice for our business. They are not luxurious, but they are plentiful and you can often find a low miler with a box. Sell the box to finance tires/brakes/whatever.

Don't overlook the really long wheelbase c/c units either 'cause most upfitters are adept at shortening frames.

I had my FL 60 wacked to the optimum Swaploader 222 configuration. When I bought it it had a fixed, aluminum 26 foot flatbed which I couldn't use. I think the wheelbase was like, 256".

The point is - these super long wheelbase class 6 c/c's are often available cheap enough to justify the cost of modifications

Also, don't wait around looking for the 'perfect' used medium duty with all your wish list items fulfilled. Unless you are spec'ing a new truck, you are wise to compromise on a few things in order to get rubber on the road.

BTW the Cummins B can be, and often is, turned up to well ever 300 horsepower. Dodge pick up folks take em up way over 400 horses.

You know now that you say that. Any idea what or who you can sell the used box too?? Also How much would it cost to take like 4 ft off and make it shorter, Is it as easy as unbolding the leaf hangers and bolting them up again, shorter driveshaft and shorten the exhaust??

Thats a thought. I've been looking for trucks and I found i can get the 18 ft bottle delivery trucks that are low profile trucks.. Which would make it lower to the ground.

I will keep everyone posted on my thoughts

turfquip
01-11-2006, 08:07 AM
Its a job that is best left to a shop that has experience shortening frames. It may cost 1,500 to have it done, but if you've saved that much or more by buying a low demand truck then well, it makes sense.

As far as selling the box, advertise it in the trader, or maybe the upfitter would take the box as partial trade for the frame job.

Gravel Rat
01-11-2006, 02:26 PM
A truck with a straight frame rails is easy to shorten the wb you just drill new holes for the spring hangers and slide the axle forward to the cab axle measurement desired. It is harder than is it sounds thou as you need to have a Mag drill and the tools etc to make it work.

To shorten the wheelbase of a truck look at atleast 2 grand by the time you do this stuff

1) Cut and remove the suspension and driveshaft
2) Mark and layout where new position of axle
3) Start drilling the hanger bolt holes not a easy task drilling frame steel
4) Get new driveshaft made
5) Modify brake lines and wiring
6) Lopp off the over hang you don't need anymore.

UNISCAPER
01-11-2006, 04:49 PM
A truck with a straight frame rails is easy to shorten the wb you just drill new holes for the spring hangers and slide the axle forward to the cab axle measurement desired. It is harder than is it sounds thou as you need to have a Mag drill and the tools etc to make it work.

If you dril any frame with 80 or 100,000 PSI it will crack, and it states that in the owners manuals of many trucks. There are pre drilled holes in varous spot along the frames and you remove a cross member and bolt the spring perches on where those came out. Drilling or welding, plan on a new frame.

Gravel Rat
01-11-2006, 05:29 PM
Truck frames are drilled all the time you have to know what you are doing. Putting excessive heat to a trucks frame causes cracks drilling holes in the proper locations doesn't cause cracks.

Bill you don't do any of your own wrenching so how do you know ?

I have seen some truck frames with holes drilled all over from the truck being used for different applications over the years.

Where ever you splice into a frame you insert it or if you want to make a certain area of the frame heavier you put frame inserts.

The other way of shortening the wb is lopping the frame off inbettween the cab and the rear axle no holes being drilled but the frame needs to be welded back together and fish plated. Usually the area welded is stronger than the rest of the frame.

CrewCutEnterprises
01-11-2006, 05:38 PM
So its complicated.

I will try to find a truck that is sized right for me then. Ill see if i can find a frame shop somewhere in MD.

Gravel Rat
01-11-2006, 07:32 PM
That would be your easiest route as your into alot of expense modifying a truck.

SPLC
03-02-2006, 05:54 PM
Wow, this is a great thread.

I just bought a '96 Int'l 4700 LP with fullsize tires on it 2 months ago. It's an ex-Ryder truck with a 5spd. Frame was shortened, 16' dump box installed before I bought it. The price was right, I wanted a roll-off for the reasons everyone has stated, but couldn't pony up. I've got a 9500lb ASV Posi-Track as well and look forward in the next year to possibly switching to a roll-off system to carry it. Just wanted to say great thread, thanks for the info and the references. Had I have read this thread before I bought, I may have waited. Ah well, live and learn.

And I thought I'd bring it back to life for some more tech!

CrewCutEnterprises
03-02-2006, 07:36 PM
here i s our latest project.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=131965

The international is still going to happen at the end of the year or begining of next, unless i close on this 4 acre lot im looking into for 275,000.

Im unsure of roll off, switch n go or straight dump.

M RASCOE&SONS
03-02-2006, 08:13 PM
steller shuttle hooklift and chevy c5500 or the ford f550 do i need to say more...

CrewCutEnterprises
03-02-2006, 08:25 PM
steller shuttle hooklift and chevy c5500 or the ford f550 do i need to say more...

Yea, I would love your imput on the stellar shuttle.

Problem is a 550 chassis weighs about 8800 or so and add the stellar shuttle weight of 1400 to 1600 for the shuttle and 2000 lbs for the body.

So we are not looking at alot of payload capacity, Also ford doesnt make a "Reliable motor for the 550" I feel the 6.0 is junk and they have had many problems with it.

Chevy... nah GMC kodiak... maybe.

UNISCAPER
03-02-2006, 10:08 PM
Gravel Rat:

First, I no longer need to wrench on anything and have done pleanty in the past. Second, Written 3 times in the owners manuals of a 4500, 5500, and 6500 series GM truck, along with a very laerge a ledgible yellow tag on the frame bears the inscription "Do not cut, weld or drill this frame. Doing so can result in cracking"

There are predrilled holes and brackets you are supposed to use for fifth wheel applications on the 4500 series GM trucks. There are also approved ways to weld hitches. If someone does not follow those ways and a frame cracks, you can't blame the manufacturer, you blame who installed it and or who used the truck.

I'm also curious about a particluar truck and GVW being one weight. If it was not being overloaded, then why was the truck used fto replace it a GVW of 25,900???????

M RASCOE&SONS
03-02-2006, 10:47 PM
Yea, I would love your imput on the stellar shuttle.

Problem is a 550 chassis weighs about 8800 or so and add the stellar shuttle weight of 1400 to 1600 for the shuttle and 2000 lbs for the body.

So we are not looking at alot of payload capacity, Also ford doesnt make a "Reliable motor for the 550" I feel the 6.0 is junk and they have had many problems with it.

Chevy... nah GMC kodiak... maybe.
well i myself am not a ford guy but have had the opurtunity to use the f550 with the 7.3 with auto trans that was equiped with a stellar shuttle and let me tell you that the truck had plenty of power with my t300 bobcat in the container we were slightly overweight but the power was there.i also have used a multi lift hooklift on a f650 and was not impressed with that hooks performance compared to the stellar..:weightlifter: :usflag: :drinkup:

Gravel Rat
03-03-2006, 01:13 AM
If you want a rolloff truck you have to stick with conventional rails you can make a semi dead lift system like the switch and go to maintain dump angle or you can make extendable tails.

The hooklifts add quite a bit of weight onto the truck and when your dealing with 1-2 ton trucks you need to keep them light as possible to keep your payload.

CrewCutEnterprises
03-03-2006, 08:54 PM
Gravel rat:

Ive looked at both as you know. I wonder how hard it is to build a roll off system like the switch n go??

Your very good with a welder too, think you could buy a winch, steel and a dump etc and build one?? I might....

SPLC
03-04-2006, 01:37 AM
I just read etwman's 25 pg. thread about his setup and am sold on it. Only thing is that my Int'l does not have the wheelbase for the extra 4' tunnel box. I'm with you, CrewCut about building a roll-off or switch & go.

Gravel Rat quote:
"That Switch and Go is very very easy to build all it is a scissor hoist,winch and rails. A scissor hoist is around 2000 dollars,winch 1500 dollars and the steel 1000 dollars so around 4500 dollars for materials."

I've got a 16' flatbed dump with fold down sides on my 4700 right now, what all would be involved in coverting it over to a roll-off or switch & go? (Labor, price, etc.) What's the big difference between the 2? For now I'd just be keeping my current 16' dump as the sole box in the scheme, I just want to be able to dump wheelbarrows in it on the ground. That would save me SO much hassle this summer.

I'd appreciate any help on this. Thanks again.

UNISCAPER
03-04-2006, 11:38 AM
You'll need rails, pullies and two long reeving cylinders for winches, two side mounted telescopic rams to lift the rails, and have to beef up your hydro pump in order to lift what you need. Then you'll need rollers, hinges and so foutrth. If you are considering it I suggest you go to a local landfill and see what a roll off looks like so you have an idea, then if it is something you want to proceed, find where one of those guys parks for lunch and get some take off measurements and buiuld a parts list.

SPLC
03-04-2006, 12:06 PM
I'd most likely buy the material from my local truck equipment center, I will be talking to them soon to see what this will run me in parts and labor. I could do the fab work myself, it's just getting everything together.

I'm debating on whether to put money into this truck or just run it for the summer, sell it, and buy the 252" wheelbase vehicle I want and put money into that. That tunnel box is sexy. Of course I could always have the frame extended in the middle, but that's more $$$$.:hammerhead:

Thanks again for the help.

UNISCAPER
03-04-2006, 12:16 PM
Let me tell you. I first thought "what the hell would I do with a box than can fit 6 employees if you stack them right....After having the thing and dialing it in the way we need it, like welding racks and stuff along the side for small hand tools, there is no way I'll ever get a crew truck without one. We litterally eliminated the need for a bid enclosed trailer that has been broken into before. When we leave, our tools go with us. And they are completley organized.
Easy to keep an inventory list on the door and when you are done for the day/week, there is the check list.

CrewCutEnterprises
03-04-2006, 01:46 PM
Let me tell you. I first thought "what the hell would I do with a box than can fit 6 employees if you stack them right....After having the thing and dialing it in the way we need it, like welding racks and stuff along the side for small hand tools, there is no way I'll ever get a crew truck without one. We litterally eliminated the need for a bid enclosed trailer that has been broken into before. When we leave, our tools go with us. And they are completley organized.
Easy to keep an inventory list on the door and when you are done for the day/week, there is the check list.

Pictures tell a thousand words... Im still waiting for some pics of your few roll off truck, truck boxes etc..

:)

Gravel Rat
03-04-2006, 02:40 PM
To make the rolloff rails you can build the rails with rectangular tube or you can use heavy C Channel. Tube is a little stronger and you can go with shallower rails (keeps center of gravity down).

For reeving winch you can go with twin push cylinders or you can go with 1 big telescoping cylinder with a pulley at its head or you can go with a hydraulic winch.

A hydraulic power in power out winch is easier and cheaper. You can mount it on the head of the rails like a switch and go or down inbetween the rails and a pulley at the head of the rails and the winch pulls the box on.

The disadvatage of the winch is you do have more cable to wear out where as a hydraulic cylinder reeving system you only have one length of cable.

The two rolloff trucks I worked with were different one was the type with the one telescoping ram and the other was with the twin reeving rams. Both pulled well.

As for tilt cylinders you can go with a scissor hoist like the switch and go but you are adding extra weight to the truck. So the underslung cylinders do work better BUT you loose ground clearance under the truck as the cylinder brackets etc hang quite low.

You will need a good hydraulic system as you are running two functions at once pulling the box on and tilting the rails down as the box gets further onto the rails.

Anyhow if you are looking for a rolloff system look at one thats already built and you just have to install it. If you have the shop and fabrication skills you can build you own.