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View Full Version : Thinking about V-10 F-450


Gravel Rat
01-07-2006, 12:26 AM
Well I'am not impressed with the PSD I need a fuel pump its going to cost me 300 for the pump and another 250 for installation. I have a feeling this is just the start of the pain in the azz problems.

As you know I'am not impressed with the fuel mileage of the PSD aka 12 mpg. The price of diesel here is roughly .47 cents more per gallon over regular gas.

I'am also thinking about going back to a 7.3 IDI if I can find one. Here is the thing I can find a few nice F-450 4x4s for a nice decent price not like a overly inflated price for a high mileage PSD.

What are you guys getting with your V-10 powered Fords ?

I have todo another oil change on the PSD I just paid 28 dollars for a filter have to buy another 50 dollars of Delo 400. I put the scheduled amount of mileage on the truck in about 3.5 months.

I gotta get rid of this truck the transmission is failing I guess its seen too much abuse as the truck was a tow truck. Then there was wrong oil put in the transmission I didn't know untill I changed it so I think the gear oil starved the bearings in the ZF. When I have the truck in 5th gear the stick wiggles back and forth like a dog wagging its tail. I can hold the stick against one side and you can feel like a bumping action like something is loose.

Anyhow thats beside the point I'am interested in is a V-10 worth it I don't tow heavy weights I carry heavy loads but not on a regular basis.

bobcatboy
01-07-2006, 12:38 AM
well, I have a 2005 f-350 3 valve v-10, plenty of power. I tow regulay and I get about 7-10 towing and about 12-13 empty. Towing mileage is with 15000 behind the truck.

UNISCAPER
01-07-2006, 09:48 AM
Why would you want a spark plug squirter?

Jpocket
01-07-2006, 12:51 PM
We had one ford when I was younger it was an IDI 7.3 Diesel from what I can remember there were never any problems with it, I think that v-10 is just gonna be a gas pig.

tnmtn
01-07-2006, 03:14 PM
i am a gm guy all the way but my old idi is one of the best trucks i've had. not to great for power but very reliable. what i like best is if it does break down it is easy to work on. the milage on a recent trip was 16 mpg. doesn't ride like a gm but it does the work. for the money its hard to beat.
metin

hosejockey2002
01-07-2006, 03:53 PM
The V10 is a good powerful puller, but if you think 12 mpg is bad with an F450, (it's not that bad) you won't be happy getting 7-10 with the V10. It will cost you just as much if not more for fuel. I don't have a V10 truck, but I have a class C E450 motorhome with 4.63 gears, and while it has good power, it NEVER gets any better than 8 mpg. Even empty I doubt you'll get much better with an F450. With a pickup probably 13 or so empty on the highway. It takes oats to feed them horses.

Gravel Rat
01-07-2006, 06:40 PM
Thats what I want to find out is how piggy are the V-10s I never owned one and ya I know the older ones had problems with blowing out plugs.

Right now the price difference in fuel is 47 cents per US gallon so on average fill up of my current truck it costs me 4.70 more over gas its not much.

I have to spend 500 bucks to get the lift pump repaired on my truck for a mechanical pump its 300 bucks plus another 200 bucks to have it installed :cry:

I know the saying once you have gone to diesel you never go back well I haven't owned a gasser truck since 1999. The 88 F-450 I had was 460 gas it was a thristy truck and that was when gas was considered "cheap" aka 2.15 per US gallon us funds or 68.9 cents per litre now regular gas is 2.85 per US gallon or 90 cents per litre. Back when I had the 88 diesel fuel was cheaper than gas it was around 1.97 per US gallon or 62 cents per litre now diesel fuel is 1.04 per litre CND

So roughly what I pay for diesel which is 1.04 per litre would be you guys in the states would pay .89 cents per quart for regular gas you guys would be paying .77 cents per quart.

Right now my PSD will cost me to go 62 miles 18.96 dollars american or 22.34 canadian. If I can get a V-10 to do the same average 11 mpg it would cost me to go 62 miles 16.40 US or 19.17 canadian.

Which really isn't much difference fuel burn wise but a V-10 would be a little cheaper to maintain when you think it of it for a remaned drop in PSD is around 7000 dollars CND.

To replace the injectors in a PSD would cost me 3160 dollars yikes for me to replace the injectors on a IDI is 440 dollars then do the injection pump 695 dollars 1135 dollars is a far cry from 3160 dollars. Oh ya with the PSD injectors if the Core isn't good enough a rebuilt injector is 600 dollars each :dizzy:

I'am really considering another IDI too if I can find one sure they are not big on power but they are cheap to fix.

Dirty Water
01-07-2006, 07:29 PM
Think of it this way, your spending $4.70 more on diesel to gas.

You'll get about 7-8 mpg with the V-10, which according to gas prices here, would be about $23 US to drive 62 miles.

Your spending $18 US to drive your PSD, thats a $5.25 difference, subtract the $4.70 and your still saving .55 for driving diesel.

Jpocket
01-07-2006, 07:35 PM
Honestly i'd stay with what you have, 12mpg is great for any truck over 1ton. My 2005 2500hd w/6.0 (4:10 gear) gas only gets 10.5mpg UNLOADED about 9.5 LOADED. If i were you i would be happy with that PSD's fuel mileage.

bobcatboy
01-07-2006, 07:45 PM
yaeh the v-10 is fuel hungry, but the v-10 cost of up keep and maintenece is alot cheaper. You have to look at the cost of ownership between the two. Yes the diesel will get better gas mileage but the money you save in fuel you will soak that up and them some keeping it. The diesel option only pays you back if you plan on keeping the thing for over 120k. I have the 05 v-10, IT is the best gas engine out there for a heavy truck. check out the www.fordtruck.com go to the v-10 forum post your questions and you get all the info on this great engine in there.

UNISCAPER
01-07-2006, 08:09 PM
You also have to factor in that time when after 90,000 miles, the V-10 spits the sprk plug across the engine compartment. Somone on this forum had that fixed and it cost him over 3K, and, those engines have had over 10,000 documented incidents of the same occurence.

I've had both IDI F-450, and powerstroke versions. Niether one of them could get more than 10-12 MPG, 10 was average. With the terrain Gravel Rat speaks of where he lives, our area would be a good comparison to his, excluding off road use of course.

Gravel Rat
01-07-2006, 08:24 PM
I usually keep my trucks for 4 years and will put on prolly no more than 150,000kms probably more like 100,000kms (62,140 miles). My 89 F-450 I put about 28,000kms 17,400 miles on it in 4 years but you have to remember those are hill pulling mileage our hills here are 6-10% grades.

Most guys here that buy diesel trucks keep them for 300,000kms (186,400 miles) then trade them in and buy a new one so about 4-5 years they will put that on in. In the 300,000km mark is when the nickle and diming starts it doesn't matter what brand diesel truck it starts to cost money.

Like my truck the previous owner had engine troubles at the 205,000km 127,387 mile mark. My 89 F-450 its engine died at 301,000kms (187,000 mi) from cavitation which is pretty good usually IDIs die from cavitation a little sooner than that.

I missed out on a real good deal I'am kicking myself in the azz for not looking into it sooner but a 97 F-450 with 155,000kms (96,317 mi) for 12,000 dollars CND . The truck was presold when I inquired about it so nothing I could do you snooze you loose simple as that.

If I was in the market for a brandnew F-450 4x4 it would be a hard decision the diesel option adds like 6 grand to the price of the truck. That 6 grand can pay for alot of fuel.

Gilla Gorilla
01-07-2006, 08:44 PM
Here is what I found out this week on the Ford Triton engines. I went to do a tune up on a 5.4L with the aluminum heads. Pulled out the old plugs and compared them to the new plugs. The new plugs have at least twice the amount of the original plugs that Ford installed, so they are acknowledging that they had a problem with the plugs backing out and taking the threads with them but it seems that they have fixed it with the longer threads on the new plugs that are speced for the Triton engines.

lqmustang
01-08-2006, 11:13 AM
As to the original question, I get 13-14 mpg empty in my F250, and about 8-9 mpg loaded. On the rest of the stuffed discussed here, it was actually $4k to replace the head. :dizzy: The problem with the earlier v10 (up to 2002) was the number of threads in the head itself, about 3 turns of thread to hold the plug. After 2002 Ford changed the head design to increase the number of threads for the plugs. You couldn't pay me to take another pre 2003 Ford v10.

UNISCAPER
01-08-2006, 11:16 AM
lqmustang, did they comp you in the least but for that? I here now Ford are rejecting turbocharger claims if the fins are broken off, claiming the cause was a dirty air filter....

lqmustang
01-08-2006, 11:24 AM
lqmustang, did they comp you in the least but for that? I here now Ford are rejecting turbocharger claims if the fins are broken off, claiming the cause was a dirty air filter....

Comp me? lol. They took my money and that was about it. I still hold onto some small hope that the current NHTSA investigation into this problem will result in a recall. I'm afraid that is the only way I'll get any relief from Ford.

Marek
01-08-2006, 11:28 AM
Which year motors are having turbo failures? If a fin is broken off what are the tell tale signs?I have 2 02's with 7.3s and have had 7 7.3s total with only minor trouble .But I dont think I would buy a 6.0 .I think my major grip with the Ford PSD is the lousy fuel milage.Ford is starting to tighten up on warranty claims from what I hear.

Guthrie&Co
01-08-2006, 12:52 PM
I have been around diesels all of my life and i have neverheard of a fin tearing away from the turbo. i could see that happening it there was alot of neglect and some hard, large object being left in the tubes

Dirty Water
01-08-2006, 03:21 PM
I have been around diesels all of my life and i have neverheard of a fin tearing away from the turbo. i could see that happening it there was alot of neglect and some hard, large object being left in the tubes

I've worked a on a lot of turbocharged cars, and on a fluid bearing turbo, you can seize up the bearings, allowing the shaft to go off balance and the fins to hit the housing.

It ruins the turbine, and the exhaust housing.

If the shaft is improperly balanced from the factory, same problem.

Ball Bearing center cartridge turbo's are typically more reliable, but cost more and still have to be perfectly balanced from the factory.

UNISCAPER
01-08-2006, 05:01 PM
If you look in the December issue of Automotive News Magazine, there is an article on page 25 entitled "Ford deisel woes not over" or something similar.

Google the name, open the page and read it. I can't drag a link into this post
so you'll need to find it if you are interested.

It will tell you that Ford, has had 60 some odd lawsuites regarding the 6.0 PSD. It will also tell you there have been 12,000 registred warantee repairs on that engine, many rearding turbo issues, like my buddy who has lost 5 to date. Those claims have cost Ford into the millions of dollars to repair. It then goes on to say, "Ford factory is rejecting any claim against a turbo for broken fins, blaming the problem on a dirty sir filter, which is their way pof basically saying screw you.

Regarding fins tearing away, I've not been around as many diesels as gas cars running road courses. You can easily loose fins the way Jon described, and, it is very easy to loose them if the pressure "poppit valve" on the turbo housing sticks shut and adds too much boost.

The engines specifically are the 6.0 PSD. They have been nothing but problems for Ford, and the article I mention confirms it.

Marek
01-08-2006, 06:34 PM
Does anyone know if the twin turbo for 07 will be a modified 6.0? If so I might try a GM again.Are the Duramax motors holding up after 100k miles?

UNISCAPER
01-08-2006, 07:13 PM
Other than grease, oil filters, we have not had a wrench on any of them. We have one at 60, quite a few of the guys who pull toys to the dessert have over 100K on their trucks, a couple over 200K. The only thing that was a problem in the early Dmax models was the Bosch injection system they chose. It is a low pressure system subject to problems if you get any type of vaccum leak, you will pay hell. They got over that and current models are running Nipondenso high pressure injection, and that, is bulletproof.

07 is going top be a very interesting year for all Diesel trucks. That's when tier 3 EPA crap hits the fan. The rumor is that all engines are going to have this screw ball aparatus similar to an after burner, similar to a cat. The memo I got alleges diesel powereed vehicles (trucks) will have an 11-14,000 price increase to account for this idiotic thing. It also claims the air comming from the exhaust is going to be cleaner than the air the engine is taking in.

Until I see anything fter it has been installed, I am pretty suspect of this kind of talk. 2007 is model year is 8 months away, and I find it pretty hard to believe that trucks are going to increase that much.

Ironmower
01-08-2006, 07:16 PM
Does anyone know if the twin turbo for 07 will be a modified 6.0? If so I might try a GM again.Are the Duramax motors holding up after 100k miles?


The '07 is supposed to be a 6.4L common rail injected engine. It uses the same 6.0L block, but completely different electronics and fuel management. There will be a smaller turbo feeding a larger turbo for better response on the low end of the powerband. At least this is what I've heard from my dealer.

For the record, I've had 12 6.0L diesels in the fleet, all '03-'05's and none have gone down with turbo related problems. The '03's I have had a couple reflashes and the tow/haul lost some guts after that, but other than that, mine have been great. 14-16mpg empty/10-12 loaded on the F-450's, and 18mpg+ on the F-250's empty, 14mpg loaded +/- a mpg or so.

Marek
01-09-2006, 08:24 AM
If diesel motors are going up that much I guess my guys will be driving gas rigs again.After 120k miles as a crew truck they are pretty much shot anyway.Now days you can get a Allison or Tourq shift with a gas motor so that takes out the weak link.The Ford diesels I have only get 10-14 mpg anyway so 10 for a gas motor would be ok.My personal trucks will stay as diesels then get handed down, but for a grass crew I just cant justify the expense.

Tyner Lawn Service
01-09-2006, 09:57 AM
The '07 is supposed to be a 6.4L common rail injected engine. It uses the same 6.0L block, but completely different electronics and fuel management. There will be a smaller turbo feeding a larger turbo for better response on the low end of the powerband. At least this is what I've heard from my dealer.

For the record, I've had 12 6.0L diesels in the fleet, all '03-'05's and none have gone down with turbo related problems. The '03's I have had a couple reflashes and the tow/haul lost some guts after that, but other than that, mine have been great. 14-16mpg empty/10-12 loaded on the F-450's, and 18mpg+ on the F-250's empty, 14mpg loaded +/- a mpg or so.Some people could screw up railroad track. Most internet claims no matter what brand usually are started by someone who has an opposite brand. I'm not saying all Fords are bullitt proof as I do have a friend that had Ford buy back his 03 6.0 for a strange deal but not an epidemic like you read on here.

Gravel Rat
01-09-2006, 03:16 PM
I got a price for the lift pump for my PSD the pump itself is 300 bucks its probably going to cost me another 200 dollars or more to have it replaced.

For a damn little mechanical fuel pump its freeking expensive. A gas pot is looking more enticing.

I think I made a mistake buying a PSD I think I will definatly look at a V-10 or back to a IDI.

Atleast with a IDI the parts don't cost a fortune.

Guthrie&Co
01-09-2006, 09:21 PM
I want to see a deere power plant in some pickups. there inlines are incredible.

fyshstykr
01-10-2006, 01:43 AM
yaeh the v-10 is fuel hungry, but the v-10 cost of up keep and maintenece is alot cheaper. You have to look at the cost of ownership between the two. Yes the diesel will get better gas mileage but the money you save in fuel you will soak that up and them some keeping it. The diesel option only pays you back if you plan on keeping the thing for over 120k. I have the 05 v-10, IT is the best gas engine out there for a heavy truck. check out the www.fordtruck.com go to the v-10 forum post your questions and you get all the info on this great engine in there.
just what I was gonna say (sort of) the" v-10 forum" guys are great and very helpful, definately worth a look at. I would not trade my "03 s.d v-10 for anything, yea the mileage can hurt at times (9-10 pulling/ 12-14 unloaded) but for overall performance and maintenance, I'm a V-10 guy.:blob4: :blob4: :blob4:

UNISCAPER
01-10-2006, 10:32 AM
"Some people could screw up railroad track. Most internet claims no matter what brand usually are started by someone who has an opposite brand. I'm not saying all Fords are bullitt proof as I do have a friend that had Ford buy back his 03 6.0 for a strange deal but not an epidemic like you read on here."

Set the internet claims aside. Take a few minutes to educate yourself. Go to the version of "Automotive News" online. Then go to page 25 of the December 2005 issue. Article entitled "Ford Diesel woes not over"

There is no rumor, it's fact. And, after you read that, it is an epidemic. Anyone who buys a Ford should buy at their own risk after you read that article. If you haven't read it, don't bother posting back. Howzz that?

UNISCAPER
01-10-2006, 10:51 AM
Heres the link to make it easy. I messed up the name. This article is entitled Owners Angry Over Powerstroke Problems, Written on 12-12-05 at 6:00 AM.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051212/SUB/51208027&SearchID=73232138843736


http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051212/SUB/51208024&SearchID=73232139415950