On the fence- Super Z or Dixie Chopper XT33

[TriCountyLawn]

Im in the spot where its looking like im going to need to add a 72" machine to our mowing line-up. I have a 48" hustler WB that we have been VERY happy with. In terms of dealer support my dealer sells both DC and Hustler so thats not a issue.

I need a machine that can handel alot of grass. And mowing conditions that are not ideal at times (wet ect.) I know that the Hustler is faster but how fast can it mow? Does the new XR-7 deck increse cutting speed? And whats Hustlers stance on double blades?

I would really like to have my mowing crews with all Hustlers what do you guys think >?

[mowerconsultant]

The new XR-7 decks are exactly what you need, and you will not have a need for double blades either.
The XR-7 moves grass through the deck very fast, and this will allow you to cut at a higher rate of speed.
Demo one before you buy it and you will be sold.
Who is your dealer? Rigg's? tell them Pj says hi.

Pj

[Shady Brook]

Riggs is awesome! I demoed those choppers on many occasions and I really wanted to like them...The Super Z is the no contest winner. I believe you would have to be a dyed in the wool Chopper cult member to opt for it over a Super Z. I don't mean any disrespect, I have heard dealers who sell choppers speak in similar terms regarding many chopper owners. The Super Z in my experience is so much better.

Good luck

[TriCountyLawn]

Shady- Do you own a super Z ? Are you a local guy?

Ive ran a Hustler Z w/ the honda motor and a reg deck (60 inch) and really liked the machine. The cut was good just like our walkbehind units and the hydros were really smooth.

However the cutting speed was nowhere near that of a Dixie. Now i know ya cant compare a 25hp or so w/ a 60in deck to a 32hp 72in deck so i wont go there. But... Based on what i saw with that machine it was a long way off of what similar model dixies could do.

If this next mower was going to be something that was gonna be used only on large residential type stuff I would feel better about going with a Hustler. Im looking at covering alot of ground per day. I try not to be a horsepower shopper but the 28hp vs the 33hp on the dixie worries me.

I feel the Hustler is a safer machine and I feel better about my guys running it day in and day out. Also Hustler will hold a hill pretty nice. Where as the Dixie really lacks in that area. Really up in the air at this point for me. :blob1:

[Shady Brook]

Tricounty

Yes, I do own a Super Z, and a Super mini. I have demod a regular hustler Z and the Super is much more comfortable, and much faster. I am a local guy, most all my work is in Lake county.

I have spent some hours on the dixe with the 33, a flatlander 27, and a diesel chopper. If you are mowing up a hill, the dixies will not bog down like the Super Z does, but all you have to do is slow down a bit. The Super Z will run from all of the choppers, there is no contest in speed. I am sure the Hustler will mow faster in all conditions with a hill being the exception. The hustler handles better, the parking break set up is better, the hill stability is better, the warrenty is better, the cut is better imo, they are easier to learn, they get better traction, they appear better thought out, the weight distribution of the machine is better, the center of gravity is lower, the company stands behind their machine better then any other in my experience, and they seem to be trying to continually make new machines that guys like us want. Dixie chopper has some neat features as far as oil coolers, filters and some engine related stuff, but other things are stoneage. The deck height adjustment is just plain silly, there is not much ground clearance to get on trailers, and other things that make it a hastle for guys like us.

Ok, I am done rambling. I am pationate about this subject because I really wanted to like the choppers. I could have put up with alot if they would have cut better, and I mean in grass of reasonable height. They cut clean, but did not discharge the clippings in a way that made them dissapear. I had the extream out in some reasonable growth, and could not make the grass clipping dissperse on double cuts, could probably have made 10 and would have still had to blow the yard. I took my mini back into a yard where the chopper had just single cut and started double cutting to no avail, and the mini made the lawn look perfect! The difference was so great that the chopper never made it off the trailer again til I got back to Riggs. The Super is better then the mini so the choice was obvious.

Good luck with whatever decision you make!

[TriCountyLawn]

Shady- Thanks for the reply. Are you sure you dont work for Hustler ...just kidding. Have you cut with the new deck yet? Do you have any pics of your cut with the Hustler? I guees the reason that im kinda worried about the horsepower issue is that the first company I worked for. I had to run a Toro 72" with a 26hp EFI Kohler and it just felt SOOOO underpowerd. Then getting a fair amount of seat time on a 32hp Dixie I was in heaven.

I also loved the OCDC on the Dixies. I havent had much experience with the aftermarket OCDC's I messed with a "Quickchute" on a Hustler at the Riggs in Mishawalka once but didnt really have time get a feel for it. However it seemed like it would do the job.

For as the motor options. What difference will i be looking at between the 28efi and 30hp kohler? The specs are the same between the two on Hustlers site.

[CutApproved]

Shady Brook, what about the SUPER MINI - 52", 25HP KAW? I'm concerned about getting the larger SUPER Z, (weight, price etc..)

I currently use a 52" Exmark,, but never like it.. In your opinion,, will I be much happier if I went with the Super Mine compared to the Ex,, and what about compared to the SuperZ ? ? ? ? ?

Thanks,, Hope this helps anyone else with their decision too.

[Shady Brook]

Tri county
Yes, did kind of feel like I should be getting a bi-monthly check from Hustler after that last post! Not that I would complain or anything. :)

I am going to guess that the Toro you were on did not have the Super flow deck, or the new Turboforce. I think they both will cut pretty fast without bogging. Neither model is as fast as a chopper or Hustler. I have rolled with good speed through tall thick grass with my Super without needing to slow much if any at all. With super high lifts very tall grass will slow it, but I think it would slow any machine. The Dixie deck is a very open design made to cut the grass once and get it out the chute. The Hustler is partially baffled which seems to cut the grass up finner, but also has the ability to discharge the grass a long way. A Riggs salesman who used to run choppers in the past told me how far it through the grass... not even close to the Hustler. The distance is not everything, but it can throw it out and spread it, where the dixie's seem to toss it into more of a thick windrow. The deck seems so open that discharge velocity is sacrficed. No I have not spent time on the New Deck, but will likely add one to my fleet this year. I don't have any pictures of the cut either, something I should do sometime.

I don't think that 30hp unit will be ready for a while yet from what I have read. I think the 28 will be real close in performance to the 30. I understand your concern about 27, 28 hp motors on 72" machines. I would like to see more, but would imagine the 28 efi would be plenty. I had spent some time with a 60" Toro that had the 28 efi, and it was plenty and then some. Even if you feel the need to get a 72", I would personally get the Super Z. The advantages to me are so much in it's favor that there is no comparison to me. I bet I could outcut a 72" dixie on my 60". I have a common ground I service that is pretty flat that borders a lake and has very few obstacles. It has 1/3 mile straight runs. I can mow most of it at close to 15 mph. It will mow full tilt if the grass is not super tall or thick. You can cover alot of ground this way. Besides the speed, the extra trimming I would have to do on the edge of the lake with the chopper would be maddening. The edge is steep and dangerous.

I could not have a rider without a chute blocker either. Dixie gets bonus points for coming up with the idea but.... I run Quikchute's on my Hustlers and much prefer them. They are made very stout, expecially for the full size Z's. They are very fast to operate, much faster then the chopper ocdc. They do not allow blowout into beds, and make mulching leaves a dream come true. The chopper unit has large enough holes that it allows to much debris to be cast into beds you are trying to keep clean. I love my Quikchutes.

I know there are some hills in the SB area, if you have any, the Super will make life so much nicer.


Cutapproved

There is a price difference between the Super mini and the Super, but not a huge amount. If I were getting a Super, I would get a 60. There is no trim side on the 52, which is nice to have. The 52 weighs almost as much as the 60", and is the same length as well. I am not a Kaw fan after having problems with their big motors in the past. I would go with the 27 Kohler. The price of the Super 52 is within a couple hundred bucks of a 27 60". I find that there are very very few places that the 60 won't go that the 52 will. I will likely only buy 60's or bigger in the furture. The 60" seems to cut noticably more grass. My first reccomendation then would be to consider a 60" for a rider.

If you must have a 52, the super mini is not cheap. I think it is about 500 to 600less then a Super. The deck on the mini is shallower then the full Super's. The new Supers Z's will be deeper yet it appears. In tall grass the Super Z wins. My Super mini has the 27 so it is a beast, but in tall thick stuff the grass starts to amass at the discharge chute. In tall thick stuff sometimes the full deck hurts the clean cutting performance a bit. I don't think the vacume is as good on the mini as on the Super. You can not cut quite as high with the mini as you can with the Super Z due to the low profile deck design. The Super will hold a hill a bit better, but could be due to the fact that it is weighs more and is a 60. The mini rides like a dream, more comfortable then the Super. It suprised me! Seems like the castor positioning may make the difference. There is a big overhang on the mini so you have a great trim edge. The mini is a rocket! It says it goes 13....It is faster then the Super Z! Not just mine, but many have been raced, and the Super mini's always win. It is amazingly manuverable! It turns on a dime, it is very nimble, and more forgiveing when turning then it's big brother. In normal grass conditions it will fly, and in small to medium yards will likely cut nearly as much grass as a 60" Super. For small to medium size yards this machine really excells. One of my guys has really mastered this mower, and I have seen him full tilt in 8k yards. It is a sight to see a mower streaking back and forth at 15 mph!

I have not heard much bad about the exmark riders. Is yours an hp, or a full Lazer? What don't you like about it? I can't tell you what you will like better. I can tell you that the warrenty will be better on the Hustler products, that the parking brake is better, that you get a suspension seat standard that makes the ride so very nice, and probably could list a few other things that would favor the Hustler products as well. That does not mean it is better, you may have to demo some mowers to prove it to yourself.

Oh, as far a weight... I think the big 60 may be more abusive when turning then the mini's. I think the mini's may be more damage rut wise in soft lawns. The 60" has some big tires that make rutting a non issue, but their surface area can be hard when turning and sliding. The mini's narrow tires a less harsh because the surface area is smaller, but the weight over the smaller tires will be more likely to leave an imprint in soft lawns.

Hope this helps.

[mowerconsultant]

Wow, good post Shady.... by the way we just sent out W-2's, so you know how much we paid you this past year...... lol...lol...lol....
.
So everyone knows I am just kidding, we don't pay anyone to "hype" our product.....

[Shady Brook]

Come on man, I thought I was getting cash kickbacks this year!payup

One you have a great product, great support, and great company, it is easy to brag them. Another good example is Hustlers presence here on lawn site. How many other big mower companies are represented here. PJ has helped me on numerous occasions when my dealer was closed, or if I had a question that no one else had the answer to. Even this week I asked a simple question that if I looked at my manual I would have found the answer to, but none the less I received a response answering my question within hours.

I am just happy to share my experience, and it has been a good one with Hustler!

[Mickhippy]

Ive been helping some council guys out recently. They run a Toro 28/72 and a Ariens/Graverly 27Diesel/72 and they were all blown away by how much faster and manouverable my SZ 28/60 was.

[nmurph]

mc, don't even use the word "hype." that implies that we are strrrrrretching the truth. you know we are all just rabid, hustler fanatics. we know we have the best machines, from the biggest commercial to the smallest homeowner models. i don't know what Hustler's market share growth is, but i am seeing more of them in this area daily (i would like to see some number on the ztr segment). keep up the good work and we will keep singing the praises of Hustler!!!!!!!

[Bulldog26]

Hey guys, I'm over in the South Bend Mishawaka are in IN, RIGGS Just build a new shop. Wow, what a shop. I'm new to this site, nice to see so many guys from this area.
bt

[CutApproved]

WOW Shady Brook - Great reply.
But now I really don't know what I want.(lol)
I need to keep this in mind,, I do not cut large fields and the large properties I do have (IMO) don't justify using a 60" cut. Besides many of my small properties do not look as good having just large stripes on the yard. I hate the little homeowner 21" stripe but yet on front yards and smaller properties I don't like the wide 60" cut. Again my opinion.

I feel as though I'm not loosing all that much by purchasing a 52" cut, I almost like the 48" cut too but then again buying a ZTR it makes more sense to me to go a little bigger.

This has become a painfull decision but the only thing so far is that Hustler seems to be the waytogo..

As far as the Exmark,, heres what I dislike.
You run a full length of the property almost full speed then when you goto slow down it gets really touchy and if its wet you slide. I not a crazy driver but I think the smaller hydros on the exmark might have something to do with this,, just becasue I don't think they are very responsive. Also forget about making a turn on thin turf or wet,, you really need to be paying attention so you don't leave a rip mark. The cut imo is just ok nothing to write home about. It certainly does'nt leave a dark enough stripe but I compare this mower with my wbh bobcat. Not really apples to apples.
I don't know I guess its a good machine but I hate to pay top top dollar for something yet find out that the warranty is not as good as another company and the other companies product is built better stronger and is less expensive. Well blah blah blah....... If I buy a 52" cut,, should I got with the Super Z or SuperMini ? I think you mentioned something about trimming and that the Supermini does'nt give you this option... Is this true or do I have it mixed up?

THANKS A LOT!!

[TriCountyLawn]

PJ....You better watch it! Shady might take your job ...lol


Shady... How well has your Hustlers held up? Ive seen a ton of old dixies still cutting but its very rare that I see an old Hustler. I see no reason why they wouldnt hold up, thats for sure. The Toro that I used to cut with had a Super Flow System deck. No matter how many times I would cut a lawn the clippings would never get finer. Ive been told there Turbo Force deck is a big improvement. Also used to have to run a 52" toro (small frame model) with a 22hp kohler and the pre- SFS deck. With a mulching kit! and normal high lifts. unreal.... talk about having your hands tied. After working for that company I vowed to never make my guys mow with the wrong equipment for the job. (plus i love getting new stuff). Anyways....

Depending on which way the bids go I might end up getting a 60" or 66" deck. What kinda bagging options do I have with a Super Z. Im not a fan of the hopper styles as that creates handling the clippings more then once. Bagging is bad enough in the first place right? haha. So im looking for a good 3 bag system.

Now in terms of bagging without going with a Walker ect. In my experience Exmarks seems to have a good system for bagging with a ZTR. Dixie seems to be getting there with there systems. Where does Hustler stand with this ? Not to be negative however, ive head somewhat bad things regaurding the Hustlers getting clogged up.

Shady- I can related to what you said about the Dixies not throwing the clippings well. In my experience they threw them pretty far but in a very consistant pattern creating a windrow type effect. The double blades seemed to fix that problem.

You also run a quickchute on your super Z? I would love to see some pics of how that unit has held up. I would also like to hear more about how well it mulched up leaves with the chute shut? I know it is known that a OCDC isnt designed to mulch. How much leaves end up on the right side of the deck? I know the Dixies leave a nice trial on the one side.

[Shady Brook]

Strange why I did not get an e-mail notification that you guys responded back, glad I checked.


Cutaproved

The mini version give you a big trim edge, where the 52" Super will give you none. The Super is a big heavy machine, heavier then the exmark you own. The mini will be more forgiving, but keep in mind it is still a big heavy rider. If you are facing tearing or problems with abusing turf with your exmark, and you feel it is unsatisfactory, then you may not be happy with any rider. I don't think I recall slideing with either Hustler rider, but on soft thin turf, they will show damage. A gear drive walkbehind may be your best bet in these conditions. It is just a decision you will have to make.


TriCounty

The Super Z's are still relatively new compared to the choppers so finding an aged one will prove difficult. There is a life time warrenty on the hydro lines which no other manufacturer offers to my knowledge. I think with modern hydro technology the hydro systems should last a super long time. They run coolers for the oil which should help life along with a great air filtration system on a proven Kohlor which Dixie has been doing. I would think that the engines should last a long time, and the rest of the machine is built very heavy. I would think the Super will have a long and productive life, with more of it under warrenty for a longer period. Besides, I would rather ride a great machine and get one more frequently then one that I don't like that won't die! You said yourself that you like to get new things like we all do. There are always new developments, besides it is nice to be protected by a warrenty. Do your really think you will buy a rider and keep it for 10 years? I used to think that way, now I figure to get a new one every two years with the whole machine covered the whole time I own it! Machines under warrenty get better, faster service in my experience, and that is important to me.

The Quikchute is heavy duty and performs very well. Two passes may be required if the leaves are thick and the turf is thin, but that pretty much makes them invisible.

Bagging, you would probably get the humbolt or new hustler one. I am sure either would be adaquate. From my understanding the Exmark bagger is the standard, and would be hard to beat. I think Protero also makes a tripple bagger of sorts that may be able to dump from the seat, or fill bags inside the bagging unit. Just a thought.

I only bag very minimally. I have been able to make the grass look great without, and only bag a few leaves. Most of the time I can give a bagged look without the hastle. I use an Accellerator side bagger, and it does a nice job when needed. I can list too many reasons why a big rear bagger would be more of a problem then a help in my business.


I am telling you that that Quikchute and Super Z with doubles will make leaves go away that will truely amaze you. I know what it can do, but am still in awe as I pull away from a property that I cleaned up without taking away a leaf.

[TriCountyLawn]

Shady- How are you running your doubles? Just putting one blade on top of each other?

[Shady Brook]

I don't always run them, but when I do I stack them. Never had any problem with them moving either.