BEWARE OF SCAG

[John C Stevens]

Equipment buyers/owner operators beware! Scag's Turf Runner, (now cleverly marketed as Cougar) is an absolute lemon. These products DO NOT deserve any recognition or respect as a reliable, tough commercial machine, and MetalCraft of Mayville, Scag's parent company know that as well, and so do the distributors and perhaps some dealers. From design to pratical application this machine is fatally flawed. Take it from someone who has been there, and dozens of other owners I have spoken with regarding the SAME EXACT PROBLEMS. I paid 8,000 for mine, and put 4,000 in repairs, down time,headaches,lost profit.etc. I feel almost lucky to have gotten nearly 300 hours out of this machine, and these were careful hours. I am now putting in my fourth gear box ,which incidentally has been re-engineered three times by SCAG. And don't ever believe that slick ad campaign about customer service being of paramount importance to this company. That is just not true. They KNOW they have a bad product in this one, yet they continue to perpetuate this fraud and make believe it will go away if they keep changing the name
or play up some minor design changes, and not respond to customer complaints. Save yourself some headaches, stay away.

[cos]

Wow, what a way to start your first post. :D

I have a 61" inch Scag hydro. I bought it new, and had no problems with it. It is 6 years old and still cuts like a champ. But then again, when you get a lick of something distasteful, you never go back.

[TLS]

I demoed a 2001 Cougar in the Fall of 2000 at a demo days my dealer had. It seemed OK. I wasn't overly impressed with the cut or the speed. Also, with me being used to a ZTR, I was unhappy with the rear end swinging around and possibly hitting things. It was a 25hp Kohler with a 48" cut. It had plenty of power (obviously) but speed wise, I wasn't impressed. It seemed a little larger than a Walker. They say they have made many improvements, but if I needed a DEDICATED bagging ZTR I would probably go with a Walker.

[Eric ELM]

I feel sorry for you buddy. Nothing worse than getting a lemon. I've heard good and bad about the Scags, it seems the W/B are good. I hope you have better luck this summer. :)

[Keith]

Originally posted by Eric ELM
I've heard good and bad about the Scags, it seems the W/B are good.

Ohhhh.... I could tell you a story about a Scag walkbehind :) But I've told that one before :)

Dude, ditch the machine, it's gonna keep costing ya. Cut your losses on the POS. when Scag has a problem, it seems it is never fixed. For example, they are still trying to figure out how to cut bahia grass.

[Eric ELM]

I guess I was wrong on the W/B. I would also get rid of it and start over. Hope your next choice is better. ;)

[David Gretzmier]

sorry about your problems...but I've heard this too. The turf runner/couger aint the beast the turf tiger is. It reminds me of the first Grasshopper I bought. A used unit, 5800 bucks, it had 50 hours on it, kubota diesel 21 hors, 61"cut. It ran like a charm...for 10 hours. I put 7 grand in it over the next 800 hours. The thing fell apart around the engine. No problems w/ the engine. I think that kubota is still running somewhere, maybe running a pump or a generator for a small city. dave g

[Keith]

Interesting. I have put a lot of money into a Grasshopper as well, but none in the Kubota :)

[Paradise Yard Service]

Sorry to hear this. We pay too much $$$$ for this kind of treatment. Scag recently hit Hawaii for the first time. Thanks for the heads up.

I just thought of something. I've never heard even a hint of criticism like this one towards say a Chopper or a Lazer and I've been reading this site regularly well over a year now. You just hear some like Choppers,some like Lazers. Even though one has a preferance, they will at least compliment the opposing brand as being a good machine.

Right now I don't have the acerage (as well as 95% of the LCOs here) to justify a ZTR. But I read on with much interest/appreciation and have learned so much.

So, one thing I've learned in 16 years in the industry, find the right equipment and stick with that brand. You will do well.

Welcome aboard,

Aloha,
P.Y.S.

[awm]

What an evaluation.Still if you invested in their product an this is the result.sock it toim.Thanks for the report.

[cos]

I own a stihl saw that I would never buy again. After talking to my dad that owns a farm boss, i might think about it. I bought a big husky just for the simple fact of the stihl's flaws. That husky is one hell of a saw, and might buy a husky climbing saw to replace the stihl.

[mowerconsultant]

I have been in the commercial mowing equipment sales industry for over 10 years....
I can tell you, I have heard a nightmare story on every piece of equipment out there.....
Scag is NOT the only company to have problems with units...
All the brands out there have had a "LEMON" or 2 in the span of there production units.
The key is what this company decides to do to address the problems, ie replacement or refund.
Scag is sold through dealers who buy from distributors that buy from the factory, seems to me that you should get some satisfaction from one of these distribution steps.
In this case sounds to me that you are getting the short end of the stick...or the thick end of the shaft.....lol
Anyways sorry to hear of your problems

[parkwest]

Have you tried taking it back to the dealer and trade it in on another?

[Keith]

mowerconsultant,

I will give the dealer and distributor some credit here. After having my Scag for a month and being basically unable to use it, the dealer used it a couple of times and agreed it was the worst cut he had seen. The distributor brought a new deck to try, I never even got to use it with that one, the dealer just requested that the mower be picked up. The deck had not helped at all.

The distributor got me another mower to use, but in no big hurry. It still was around 15 days before I had a demo to use. The replaced the original mower 4 months later with the, then new, "Florida Model", designed to cut Florida grasses better. It cut marginally better, but sold it because I had enough of Scag.

I honestly believe this was a flaw in 48" deck. I think the 36" and 52" probably cut ok. The short(front to back) deck on the 48 would not cut these grasses. I took a beating on the resale, but I was not happy with it and there was no need to try to fix something that was flawed in design.

[jimsny]

I am a 1 man opperation. I started with a new 32" exmark them went to a used 48" exmark. Sold that then went on to a new Snapper 48" hydro. I had it 2 years and Snapper replaced 75% of the unit under warranty. Finally I wrote them and documented ALL my dissatisfactions and they bought it back.

This week I just got a 52" Exmark Turf Tracer ECS and LOVE IT!!!.

MY POINT: agressively pursue the manufacture to get them to "buy back" the unit. I think snapper makes an OK unit but mine was a lemon. This Scagg on the other hand sounds doomed. I would recommend you pursue them NOW and get something back before everyone wises up and they dont take any back.

ONE final note on Snapper. I was very disapointed to learn from the snapper dealer I gave the unit back to that snapper instructed him to put this LEMON unit on his showroom floor to sell as a used unit. I think the thing to do was to crush it and write it off. It makes me think what kind of company is snapper if they knowingly turn out a used defective unit for sale? Definitly someone I do not wish to do business with!


[Edited by jimsny on 04-07-2001 at 03:35 PM]

[lawnboy82]

ok, i have used huskys. i think that they are garbage. i love my stihls. now on to the cougar. i have used a runner for a couple of months. loved it. tried the cougar and hated it. i have a great demo property. the runner did not scalp and could do the hills. the cougar i tried it and it left scalps that stayed there for a good month or two. couldnt do the hills. when i tried to raise the cutter deck man was that thing ever heavy. i tried a tiger on that hill in the pouring rain. no problems. it didnt leave any scalp marks. however because of the rain the property got kind of torn up. i would like to reiterate that the perfect lawn rig would be:
48" scag hydro walk behind
48" ghs walker model T
61" tiger with the 22.5 hp kawi liquid cooled
21" honda push mower

[bridges]

Well i don't have much time so i'm going to make a long story short.

I had bought the first ztr that came out from scag And the cut on that was real bad. They replace the deck it about three times. The dealer would not take the mower back. so i took them and scag to court. After two years they gave me my money back.

[aklscape]

WOW!!! Have you ever looked at the Cougar? It is NOT the Turf Runner...it's totally different. (I know...I has the STR and now have a Cougar). I am afraid by this statement alone, the rest of your comments may not hold a lot of water. How long have you had this machine and what are you cutting with it! Did anyone tell you it is a finish mower, not a bushhog? Sounds like you have the wrong piece of equipment for the job you are doing. Walker uses a gearbox just like the Turf runner...and guess what....they break too!!

[leaflawnandlimb]

I kept my turd-runner untill the warranty ran out and then dropped it like a hot potato. during warranty it was back to the dealer 23 times. neither the dealer or the distributer would do any thing for me( like giving me my money back! ) but I guesse that's why that distributer dosn't have scag anymore.

[landscaper3]

Turf runners were a made to compete with the Walker line and they were not even in the same league. They tried it agian and ounce agian Walker is a much better machine. We use to run Turf Runners and both broke more then they ran and we bought them BRAND new so at 500 or so hrs WE MADE OUR DEALER buy them back 7 gear boxes and more. Since 1996 We run Walkers with nothing more of a starter problem in 4 Walkers and 4000plus hours and only problem a starter. Here up in Maine Walker has around %60 of the market alone!!!! Thats because, do to there great bagging capabilty most contractors own them. Im sorry to here about your problem and can understand we had 2 headaches but I can tell you there Turf Tiger goes like a raped ape and seems to be real tough!!! Im not sure on there walkbehinds but there are alot out there!

[John C Stevens]

AK,
In response to your response.... I am glad you are happy with your machine, I wish we could have been happy with ours. You are correct that walker has the same gear box as Scag, but it is the final upgraded one that was subsequent to THREE predecessors that failed miserably. The comparrison to the COUGAR is a direct quote from Scag Rep at the Boston trade show last year, and that doesnt seem to be a big secret, that the Cougar is the replacement for the TR and Scag's entrant into the out front ZT competitor. I have never in my adult life bitched about or slammed a product, because I accepted the fact of this life that equipment breaks down, and you roll with it. This was for me extremely above and beyond reasonable. Actually ,If I could attribute this to operator abuse It would make me feel better, believe it or not. We run Walkers and Ferris's and Buntons, and I couldnt be happier with them all around... and I havent cut brush in quite a few years... ;)

[LJ lawn]

i almost bought one of those turf-runners a couple of years ago-good thing i listened to the people who told me to stay far away from it and just stick with the Walker.kind of reminds you of the old bobcat lynx- another problem-prone machine.a friend of mine bought the new bobcat z-100 and has been having all sorts of problems with it.i think he only has 800 hours on it.just replaced the blower fan and housing.its been back to the dealer about 9 times now.ever look into that Toro-z that looks like the walker? anyone been using one?pro/con?

[aklscape]

My point is just because the Cougar is meant to replace the Runner, that doesn't mean it's the same mower. It's not. The Cougar is a sweet machine!

[NoDownTime]

We cut in the rain all of the time. I have heard that walkers with the GHS decks have a problem clogging in the rain. What are your experiences with this?

[LJ lawn]

all these machines have a blower fan and collect the grass in the same way (walker,turfrunner,z100 etc).if you go too fast it might clog.

[aklscape]

You're right. You can clog them all. If you have to cut in the rain a lot, look for the largest blowers that runs at the highest RPMs with the largest tubes from the deck to the blower. CLoging will be less with these features.

[AB Lawn Care]

I have also heard nothing but bad things about those Scag Walker rip off's.Don't give up on scag just becouse of that problem.Scag does make some nice machines,but they screwed up big time on trying to compete with Walker!We run Walker mowers and have a Scag 14hp dual hydro 36''WB.It has been as good od a buy as our Walkers.I have never seen such a good cut too!!!Makes a 21'' look crappy!From what I have heard on the forum,scag needs to re-think the whole Walker rip off idea.It also seems like they have problems in baha grass.Every company makes a lemon here and there.The odd Walker owner even gets a lemon.Every mower maker does it,just be very cautious when buying.I have found that this forum is good for asking about diffrent brands and models of mowers.

Ask first buy later!

And as far as a strictly grass handeling machine goes...stick with the Walkers :)