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tnmtn
01-20-2006, 05:59 PM
was curious if tracks make much diffrence when trying to backfill in clay. the clay is real gummy and sticks like none i've seen before. one pass and my tires were slicks. as of now the plan is to try and let it dry out or get colder and hopefully make it harder. just curious how the ctl guys handle the clay.
take care,
metin

Tigerotor77W
01-20-2006, 06:31 PM
It will depend to some extent on the tread of the tracks and also on the characteristics of the travel pumps, but CTLs should work much better in the gumbo.

I'll let the real-world answer...

Scag48
01-20-2006, 06:34 PM
I would think the best setup would be over the tire steel tracks for a wheeled machine. The clay can't stick to the angles of the steel as easy as it can to the rubber.

Tigerotor77W
01-20-2006, 06:58 PM
I'm worried that with a conventional wheeled skid (no anti-stall), maybe except for the largest ones by Gehl, Deere, and Case, the clay would just kill the engine (if it's not too wet).

And it might kick in the anti-stall system so early on Cats that the wheels just won't get any bite.

Gravel Rat
01-20-2006, 09:33 PM
The best way to backfill in muddy conditions is with a excavator and clean up bucket. You can place the material and keep the pressure from building up and blowing out the wall especially if its crappy cinder block walls.

The less you churn up the mud the better I don't think I would want to be backfilling with clayish dirt you will always have problems with a wet basement.

mrusk
01-20-2006, 10:40 PM
The best way to backfill in muddy conditions is with a excavator and clean up bucket. You can place the material and keep the pressure from building up and blowing out the wall especially if its crappy cinder block walls.



Your an expert on masonry also?

Gravel Rat
01-20-2006, 11:22 PM
No I'am not a expert in masonary but I have seen pressure from too much weight against a newly built wall colasp.

Cinder blocks are rarely used here for foundations its all poured concrete with rebar. Some house foundations take 22 yards of concrete for the average size house. Some foundations take 100 yards of material to backfill and 40 ton of boulders to build the area up and hold back the backfill to make the ground level and make it possible to work around the new foundation.

tnmtn
01-21-2006, 12:37 AM
i was thinking steel tracks would be about the best way to go on this. looks like i'll be pushing it back in with the backhoe bucket tomorrow. it's not going to be fun the way this stuff sticks to the steel. the bucket stayed full after the first scoop digging it out. luckily it isn't backfilling for a wall. it is a 300' water line trench.
take care,
metin

Gravel Rat
01-21-2006, 12:49 AM
Thats not very good stuff to fill in a water line trench with I hope you bedding the pipe with ateast 12"s of sand. If the stuff is that sticky you will have voids in the the back fill and you will be fighting sink holes for the next year.

Scag48
01-21-2006, 04:24 AM
Yeah, that mud gets air pockets in it and never packs right. I really hate mud. You need a hoepac if you plan on decently compacting that much, smashing it with the bucket isn't going to do a whole lot of good. Get a machine with a hoepac and another with a bucket, toss the fill in the ditch with one machine, pack and go with the other. The really crappy part is that you're gonna have to be packing within 12" of the pipe, so what gravelrat said is correct, you're going to need bedding for at least the first 12", that way once you get far enough away from the pipe you can pack the hell out of it.

gammon landscaping
01-21-2006, 06:32 PM
i think you guys are a little extream with your ideas i also work in the kingsport area so i really know about the sticky mud, well it is winter and it is going to e wet for the next 3 months so just do the best you can put the mud in the dich that is to only option, no contractor is going to pay for someone to bring out a backhoe with a compactor to back fill a simple ditch i bought a set of tracks for my 236 at the end of december, i love them,, i demoed them the week before xmas and i sewed a yard that was so slick that when i first arrived i slid all the way from the front yard to the back and could just barley get back up the hill . when i got done it was really well graded and preped very well for muddy conditions. the week after xmas i cleared 2 acares of cedar trees off of a hill that was a 3 to 1 slope
if you don't have tracks you might as well park your loader during the winter

Gravel Rat
01-21-2006, 06:37 PM
If you don't have a hoe pack then a gas powered jumping jack will do which is what most contractors here use.

On job I was on the material we were backfilling with was loaded with clay you hit the surface with the excavator bucket and the area shook like a jello cube :eek:

It took a long time for the water to finally bleed out and the ground become hard.

Another job I was working on we were burying a drainage line the soil looked find but it got wet it was terrible material ended up going to get some 3/8s minus to backfill with.

With that clayish material you really need to poke some aeration holes into it to let the water bleed through.

Dirty Water
01-21-2006, 10:27 PM
Gravel Rat, ever worked around an area that has balooned from a leaking pipe? Same jello type thing, except you never know when your going to drop 10 feet down suddenly.

Gravel Rat
01-21-2006, 10:47 PM
Its pretty rare we deal with soft ground the one job I meantioned where we were filling a low spot we filled in we used about 300 ton plus from another part of the site. The dirt was frozen when we started the job but soon as it started to defrost it turned greasy. The stuff stuck like glue it stuck to your boots just walking through it.