Has liability insurance ever saved your behind?

[K.Carothers]

I was wondering if any LCO had an insurance claim under their liability policy?
I have not, but I think those that have should share their experience. This way, LCO's without it can read real life stories and how it saved your behind.

Thanks,

kc

[kickin sum grass]

just one, slid into a building during snow removal (hill). cracked a few bricks and bent down spout. I tried to fix it myself but the manager insisted on insurance.
I could have done what they did for about 100 bucks, not sure the cost to repair it as I never heard from my ins company.
I was lucky, Anybody without it would be a fool. Its not unlike many accidents to be sued for a cool mil. I know I don't have that laying around.

[bobbygedd]

no. ins is one of the biggest scams in america today. to date i've paid roughly $25,000 in liability insurence. i put in only 2 claims, one for $1,000, and another for $450. you do the math

[KeystoneLawn&Landscaping]

Liability isnt for the little claims. In my opionion Im paying for the ,and lets hope it never happens, big event. For example, say ya throw a rock from a mower or blower and take out a persons eye. I know its a bit of a stretch, but stranger things have happened. Even if you carry a million liability, for that scenario, it may not be enough.

[DFW Area Landscaper]

Do a search. There is an interesting story in another thread about a guy who was insured. His client didn't realize he was insured. He threw a rock and cracked a window pane on a sliding glass door. The customer was very cool and was gonna let him get it fixed. Somehow, he made the mistake of mentioning that he had insurance for this sort of thing. Next thing you know, she is ready to lawyer up, he lost a client that he would have otherwise been able to keep happy and a $300 window was now $4,000 worth of damages.

For that very reason, I no longer advertise "We are insured for your protection".

To answer your question, no, I have never filed a claim with my GL insurance. That is over the course of three years in this business and about $5,500 worth of premiums. Twice we have caused gas leaks by hitting gas meters too hard with the mowers. Both times the gas company fixed those leaks for free. Once we hit a water spicket and caused a leak that cost us $110 to repair. Once we cut a phone line because we failed to call before we dug but the phone company fixed it for free and I still don't know why. That is all the damage we have caused in three years excluding sprinkler and landscape lighting systems.

I have NEVER read about anyone who had real damages here on LawnSite that couldn't have been paid out of pocket and I have been on LS pretty steady for the last 3 years.

I don't think anyone on LS can post a true story about the time their GL policy saved them from having to pay over $3,000 in damages. There might be a story here or there where they had a $1,000 claim but those are few and far between.

I pay way more than I like to for GL w/Hartford because it is required for pesticide apps but I do believe it is the biggest screwing since switched long distance and slamming.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

[Jason Rose]

DFW, I never thought of liability insurance that way... But then again I'm not a crook like so many are these days! I think that's something good to think about (from the story). Liability insurance should be your "silent partner" and not used as a selling point to get customers.

Personally I always thought having it was something to brag about. But the more sue crazy people get the more advertising it may just attract the money hungry crazies. "Hey, you got tire tracks on my concrete, I now have to replace the concrete to get rid of them, tell your insurance to cough up 20 grand"

I have never made a claim on my liability insurance. I don't really want too. I have heard tales that once you do, plan on getting dropped, and then finding a new carrier can be double the price.

[procut]

Never had a claim. The only advantage my GL has ever given me was that it is 'required' for a couple of my biggest accounts, thus without it I wouldn't be able to service them.

[RRHAMMONS]

In Kentucky, you must have one million dollar policy to bid for state jobs. I had a friend in the construction business whom just about lost everything he had because a sub-contractors employee was injured and the sub-contractor did no have any insurance. It's very important to have liability. My policy only cost $600 per year with coverage for 23,000 in employee wages.

[AL Inc]

I'll say this, I agreed with Bobby for a long time that that money was better spent elsewhwere. Without going into much detail, right now I'm facing a wrongful death lawsuit that arose out of an accident that one of my workers had on his way to work. Not my time, not my vehicle, I wasn't even there. My insurance company is picking up the tab. I'll keep paying my premiums. Because even if I'm found to have fault here, I still would have had to pay this attorney out of my pocket to defend myself. No, thanks. If you're a gambling man, that's fine, I would rather keep my house.

[JKOOPERS]

the only thing i had happen was a broken sliding glass door , cost me $450 i just called a glass co when i left the customers house and they had it fixed that day . my insurance agent told me not to advertise fully insured or insured for your protection .

[rodfather]

We all know that liability insurance is for major claims...and I want to keep my home as well, thank you.

[TJLC]

no. ins is one of the biggest scams in america today. to date i've paid roughly $25,000 in liability insurence. i put in only 2 claims, one for $1,000, and another for $450. you do the math

I agree 100%!!!

[DFW Area Landscaper]

++++I had a friend in the construction business whom just about lost everything he had because a sub-contractors employee was injured and the sub-contractor did no have any insurance++++

My understanding of the insurance is that GL does not cover this. That has to be paid from a separate policy known as workers comp.

++++Without going into much detail, right now I'm facing a wrongful death lawsuit that arose out of an accident that one of my workers had on his way to work. Not my time, not my vehicle, I wasn't even there. My insurance company is picking up the tab++++

First off, the prosecuting attorney is suing everyone in sight hoping that you have deep pockets and that somehow he can make a case against you. From what I just read above, this clown has no case against you at all. It wasn't your vehicle. I am guessing you would easily be able to hire an attorney to get you out of this for under $3,000. Everybody knows you can't sue Verizon if one of their employees crashes into you on their way to work. It would be quickly thrown out by the courts. If your employee was driving your truck home, that may be a different story. But you stated it wasn't your vehicle so I really don't think I would be so quick to say that GL is saving your butt on this. You are just being sued by a moron who has no case.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

[AL Inc]

I see what you are saying, DFW. I really don't know what it would cost for me to hire the attorney to defend me through this process, which probably will be another year. Probably less than the premiums I have paid for the last 11 years. I know that I am the "deep pocket" and that they really don't have much against me. The point I was trying to make is that (at least with my company) with employees, there is a lot going on that is out of your control. I have two rigs going everyday, one of them easily could be involved in an accident, and I'm going to be prepared for that.
You guys can talk all day long about how insurance is a scam, and I agree with you, but I doubt many of you would have the balls to run a business without it.

[DFW Area Landscaper]

Everyone on LawnSite seems to be so hung up on General Liability. From my perspective, General Liability isn't at all where your real risks lie. In my opinion, your more likely to need the following insurances in the following order:

1.) Auto insurance
2.) Workers comp insurance
3.) General liability insurance

I would say, just off the top of my head, that I am 10 times more likely to need auto insurance than workers comp insurance and 10 times more likely to need workers comp insurance than GL.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

[cpritch]

My insurance agent didn't tell me that. I just finished printing 2,000 postcards/flyers with "INSURED" on them. :realmad:

[DFW Area Landscaper]

Insurance companies face a tremendous number of costs that you would never incur without insurance. As clients of the insurance industry, we are the ones who ultimately pay those costs.

For example, suppose you damage a customer's property. You are uninsured and you call around and find a competent contractor who is capable of repairing the damage. He will charge you $1,000.

Now, suppose you want to go the insurance route on that same $1,000 repair.

First, the insurance company has to incorporate in your state, they have to hire professionals to do that for them. They have to hire professionals to file paperwork with the state insurance regulatory body. They have to hire professionals to assess the risk associated with insuring various industries so they can figure how much they should charge. They have to hire expensive advertising firms to make TV, radio & print advertising for them. They have to have large advertising budgets and marketing budgets. They have to have large office buildings for all these workers. Being the nature of corporate america, they have to pay their CEO's & CFO's and BOD members ridiculous million $ salaries and then give them stock options on top of that. They have to have investors to get something of this magnitude off the ground in the first place. That requires another set of professional workers and an investor relations department. Of course, all these costs are spread out over thousands of clients, but these costs exist and the uninsured guy doesn't have to pay any of these costs.

Then, when the damaged party finds out that there are deep pocketed insurance companies around, instead of allowing someone to simply fix the problem for $1,000, they suddenly have other damages. Now, the insurance company has to pay a lot of other costs in addition to the actual damages of $1,000.

By the time you add it all up, I'd be willing to bet the clients of the insurance industry will pay $10,000 or more for that $1,000 worth of damage.

There is a lot to be said for being uninsured. Rule number one in business law: you can't get blood out of a turnip. Our society will generally assume that the lawn guy is a turnip. When the turnip fixes what he broke, they will feel lucky and leave well enough alone.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

[brucec32]

1. The biggest benefit most insured will ever see from a liability policy is the fact that the insurance company is obligated to defend you legally against all claims. More people go broke paying lawyers than from actual judgements. One flaw with the LLC/no insurance strategy some try is that a) you cannot legally represent a LLC unless you are a lawyer yourself in some states, so you'll have to default on any suit or spend thousands defending it. and b) you will still lose your case probably if at fault and they will take your business. The law doesn't always allow you to just play tricks like putting things in another's name to avoid liability. If "sam's lawncare" operates the truck, it might not matter that the truck is in Sam's wife's name. There's a doctrine in the law concerning that that I forget the name of.

2. Do the math. For every $1,000,000 claim paid out they collect the $1500 or whatever premium from 667 individuals to break even. Then add in expenses of selling, running their business, etc, and I'm sure only one person out of thousands would ever need the insurance for a major matter. They have very smart, very nerdy people who figure out what the rates should be based on complex formulas (and educated guesses) about risks. One reason your rate might vary a lot from company to company is that one company's formula for your particular risk might vary from another's. It's not that one is just greedier than the other.

3. It's not a "racket". They can't charge whatever they want and keep customers. The insurance biz is fiercely competitive. Insurers have problems staying in business too and have good times and bad. If they were really raking it in like some of the logic here has implied then my advice would be to sell your mowers and buy insurance company stock with it.

Demand for insurance is not inelastic as long as there are many competitors selling it, which there seem to be.

[Daily Lawn/Landscape]

no. ins is one of the biggest scams in america today. to date i've paid roughly $25,000 in liability insurence. i put in only 2 claims, one for $1,000, and another for $450. you do the math

You don't need it if you can self insure yourself. I would rather spend $25000. and be on the safe side especially in todays suing society.:usflag:

[stumper1620]

I'll say this, I agreed with Bobby for a long time that that money was better spent elsewhwere. Without going into much detail, right now I'm facing a wrongful death lawsuit that arose out of an accident that one of my workers had on his way to work. Not my time, not my vehicle, I wasn't even there. My insurance company is picking up the tab. I'll keep paying my premiums. Because even if I'm found to have fault here, I still would have had to pay this attorney out of my pocket to defend myself. No, thanks. If you're a gambling man, that's fine, I would rather keep my house.
have to ask, Was this guy driving to work or was he meeting at a job site? If he was going straight to a job site the liability is mostly yours.
Never allow employees to drive personal vehicles to job sites, have them meet at the shop clock in and travel in company vehicles. that way your liability starts at the time clock.

[CAG]

Im going to try to make a long story short!! a friend of mine had a guy who got hurt bad, he lost a nut and three fingers!!! he had no workers comp and did not have him on the payroll, he was trying the 1099 sub thing that a lot of people think of.. well needless to stay he has been in litigation for over five years now and cant buy a house, cars ect in fear that they will be taken away, basically he has to live broke ( fun right??? ).. I also had a slip and fall three days after a snow storm, they said it was a thaw and refreeze thing.. I thought it was BS but anyways I told management to call my ins and i also contacted them myself and that was that I haven't heard anything about yet!! I agree ins suck's but you gotta have it!!!!!!

[chimmygew]

Backed into a garage door with mower - $1600.00.

[freddyc]

I went to the Netherlands once. Everyone in the Netherlands rides a bicycle for transportation. When you look around, all the bikes are old and rusty.

I asked a guy why he didn't get a new bike...he said.."because nobody will steal an old rusty bike".


Maybe the lowballers have a secret...drive junk, push an older mower, and look poor. They're probably less likely to get ripped off or sued than the guy with the new enclosed trailer with big lettering stating "we are insured".