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instyle
01-26-2006, 05:41 PM
I am thnking about buying a 6.5l diesel chevy, just wondering what you guys think. i know you are supposed to let them run alot, but when you look at FEDEX and UPS they run diesels and they shut them off at every stop. So, what are they thinking? Maybe there is no harm in shutting them off at every stop.

ODUrugger
01-26-2006, 06:09 PM
:) There's no problems with turning off a diesel whenever you want to... Some people don't when they run in and out of a store cause it takes a few seconds to warm up the glo-plugs to start the engine (as opposed to spark plugs in a regular vehicle).
Diesels run forever 100's and 100's of thousands of miles and wear well. They also perform better in the lower rpms so it is much more efficient for pulling weight. Translation... you get the same gas mileage towing your trailer loaded as you do with no trailer, an empty bed and the tailgate down.
The downside it... not every gas station carries diesel. You can never, EVER run it out of gas! And most service stations WILL NOT work on diesel engines. (Around southeast VA anyway)

So theres the good and bad.

JT

cochino12
01-26-2006, 06:38 PM
I thought the point of letting them run was to cool the turbo? Hence the invention of turbo timers?

pottstim
01-26-2006, 06:57 PM
I thought the point of letting them run was to cool the turbo? Hence the invention of turbo timers?


yeah if you run the engine for a decent period of time, you need to let the engine idle for a minute or two to cool the turbo down. this saves the bearings in the turbo charger. if i'm not mistaken a turbo spins at around 100,000 RPM, which makes them generate a lot of heat. they say if you shut them down too soon, it will cause the oil left inside the turbo to bake and cause a lot of problems in the future. i always let my company truck (isuzu NPR diesel) idle down for at least a minute before i shut her down.

jtkplc
01-26-2006, 07:09 PM
Yes, I've read it spins at 100,000 RPM's too. Pretty crazy. Here is a post by 'mowtech' from another thread relating to turbo charged diesel engines:

"Shutting down any engine while hot all the time is not especially good for it, but not particularly worse for a diesel versus a gas engine. That is, unless you have a turbocharged diesel in which case when it is shut down you lose lubrication to the turbine bearing yet it will continue to spin down causing wear on the bearing. This lubrication also provides cooling. So shutting down a turbocharged diesel a lot will cause premature failure of the turbocharger. So with the turbocharged engine it is best to bring it down to low idle for a few minutes to slow the turbocharger and allow it to cool before shutting down. But, this isn't bad practice with any engine to prevent excessive heat soak."

JKOOPERS
01-26-2006, 08:00 PM
just a question for all of you arent turbos ran off exhaust from the vehicle which they are on ? :confused:

Bigtreeman
01-26-2006, 09:54 PM
I love my F350xltcc4x4 for the nursery mud and rough job sites and the 7.3 for the big load.

As far as the idle thing goes if your turbo is not heating up on the run stopping is ok without idleing down.

Anyway i have heard stop and go = more often maint. Oil - etc.

checkout dieselstop.com

J&R Landscaping
01-26-2006, 10:02 PM
I would say let the engine idle. The truckers let the semi's idle for hours on end and then drive them 800,000 to 1.5 million miles while they pull 40k pounds +++++. The only problem I would see is having some one steal the truck! I always shut my truck down simply because I don't want some punk a s $ kid driving off with it!

lawnboy dan
01-26-2006, 10:11 PM
the ups and fed ex guys shut them down at every stop cause they are told too. mail men too

CLARK LAWN
01-26-2006, 10:31 PM
just a question for all of you arent turbos ran off exhaust from the vehicle which they are on ? :confused:
yes they are ran off the exhaust. the exhaust spins the turbine on the intake side compressing the air going into the cyl.

pro arbor joe
01-27-2006, 12:22 AM
I am thinking about buying a 6.5l diesel chevy, just wondering what you guys think. i know you are supposed to let them run alot, but when you look at FEDEX and UPS they run diesels and they shut them off at every stop. So, what are they thinking? Maybe there is no harm in shutting them off at every stop.

Hey lawntec guy, just wanted to let you know what I think being as I run diesels. The 6.5 Duramax in the Chevy as well as the 7.3 Powerstroke and the new 6.0 in the fords are basically gasoline engines converted with diesel parts. They are both V8 vs the Dodge/Cummins IL6 ,what I am saying is the Cummins is the only true diesel such as you would find in a big rig. Also, of the 3 the Cummins has by far the toughest internal engine components and a better engine warranty 10 years and they do stand by it. I have heard many problems with the heads on the Duramax. The powerstroke however,only gets loud up in mileage. I have a '05 Dodge 3500 4x4 auto with a Cummins, I get 14 miles to the gallon pulling a 16x7 Halmark enclosed trailer loaded! As for shutting it off, i'm sure the UPS and Fedex guys aren't paying for the new turbos. But I have a remote startup\shutoff feature on my keychain transmitter so by the time I get out,set my cones, open the trailer and unload the trimmer I can just hit the button, shut it off and lock it up. I have found that this works for me. If you are worried about the IL6 not having enough power vs the V8s, my '05 puts out 610 ft lbs torque (torque=pulling power) and I've put 20,000 lbs behind it and it pulls it fine. I know the Duramax and Powerstroke work just fine for some guys but if you want all the advantages of a true diesel: torque,fuel mileage, towing, and miles on engine before rebuild then I would strongly suggest you take a good look at the Cummins. There are also oiling systems available for the turbo which continue to lubricate the turbine bearings after shutoff. After you buy a diesel you'll never buy a gaser again.Best of luck!

Could a,would a,should a

Dixie Rob
01-27-2006, 06:43 AM
I drive a 95 F250 7.3L Diesel Powerstroke.

I rolled over 200k miles Tuesday.

I turn the truck off at night only. When mine gets cold, it gets cold, and I like it warm when I get in it as far as the heat is concerned.

I wish it had an hour meter on it, because the engine probably has more like 500k miles from sitting idleing all day.

However I help run a construction company and am in and out of it ALL day long. I only stop most times for 10 or so minutes at a time.

zemog
01-27-2006, 08:32 AM
just to add on about the cummins, i also have 3 dodge trucks, i have always heard about the cooling down and believe its probably true........
however i have never personally done it. the following trucks i have owned since new and have pulled trailers both lawn and a 26' enclosed motocross trailer across texas on weekends.
1995 3/4 ton w/5speed...employee work truck only.....245,000 no work done
1996 3/4 ton auto,xcab ...my truck..tranny at 240k....342,000
2005 1 ton auto,laramie...loved the other 2 so much had to have one.
david

stroker51
01-28-2006, 08:30 PM
I may be wrong but isnt the 6.5L in the chevy pre-duramax? If that is the case i would probably avoid it. the farm i used to work at had one and it was pretty gutless, they dont have the reputation that the powerstroke or cummins does for power or longevity. I have a 1996 powerstroke with 167K miles, and know a lot of people with 200K+. Cummins is defineatly a proven truck too, the guy i work for part time in construction has 2, and not hardly any problems with either one in a combined like 350K miles. But back to the truck you are looking at, if it is a duramax, it might be a good truck, but if it is pre-duramax, i would avoid it.

dcondon
01-28-2006, 08:37 PM
the ups and fed ex guys shut them down at every stop cause they are told too. mail men too


Ya, plus they don't own them so they don't care!!!!

Bull
01-29-2006, 03:42 AM
I think pro arbor joe hit on one thing that must be remembered and I do not know all of the details but only what a dealer was telling me once. The diesel engines in both Ford and Chevy are comprised of components similiar to gas engines and therefore are not intended to be left running for long periods of time. They do not have the cooling capabilities for heat displacement of the semi trucks others have referred to here. As for the cummings in the Dodge I would think that it would be more closely designed to a larger diesel used in semi's. I do agree with the statements of allowing a minute or two for the engine to idle but I think the original question was referring to long periods of just sitting there running.

POPO4995
01-29-2006, 03:51 AM
Buy diesel and dont look back!:p

naughty62
01-29-2006, 10:23 AM
The problem with early to mid 90s 6.5L engines are the cam position sensor can go outand cause stalling. the pdm,pump mounted driver. Black box mounted on I. pump gets hot and causes stalling when hot .They make a remote mounted pdm kit to get it away from the engine. The oil pressure sending unit in most models has a switch that control your lift pump if it is faulty your the lift pump wont get juice .These are common problems so if you get one ,be prepared for his .Dodge is v. good ,but try to find a stretched frame to mount a 14to 18 ft bed on .low profile tire are a consideration ,i like em less height to load and unload materials.6.5 are good motors if they are taken care of .good milage.The biggest concern is how any diesel is driver ,someone just dos not care can make short work out of clutches trannys and rear end . If the price is right and you have had it correctly checked out I would not be afraid of it.There also a million older ground up restoed 3/4 ton on the market.gassers but canbe had at a decent price and easier and cheap to repair.just a couple optains .I know very little about your operational needs so.just a couple options and considerations.

Jpocket
01-29-2006, 10:33 AM
Hey lawntec guy, just wanted to let you know what I think being as I run diesels. The 6.5 Duramax in the Chevy as well as the 7.3 Powerstroke and the new 6.0 in the fords are basically gasoline engines converted with diesel parts. They are both V8 vs the Dodge/Cummins IL6 ,what I am saying is the Cummins is the only true diesel such as you would find in a big rig. Also, of the 3 the Cummins has by far the toughest internal engine components and a better engine warranty 10 years and they do stand by it. I have heard many problems with the heads on the Duramax. The powerstroke however,only gets loud up in mileage. I have a '05 Dodge 3500 4x4 auto with a Cummins, I get 14 miles to the gallon pulling a 16x7 Halmark enclosed trailer loaded! As for shutting it off, i'm sure the UPS and Fedex guys aren't paying for the new turbos. But I have a remote startup\shutoff feature on my keychain transmitter so by the time I get out,set my cones, open the trailer and unload the trimmer I can just hit the button, shut it off and lock it up. I have found that this works for me. If you are worried about the IL6 not having enough power vs the V8s, my '05 puts out 610 ft lbs torque (torque=pulling power) and I've put 20,000 lbs behind it and it pulls it fine. I know the Duramax and Powerstroke work just fine for some guys but if you want all the advantages of a true diesel: torque,fuel mileage, towing, and miles on engine before rebuild then I would strongly suggest you take a good look at the Cummins. There are also oiling systems available for the turbo which continue to lubricate the turbine bearings after shutoff. After you buy a diesel you'll never buy a gaser again.Best of luck!

Could a,would a,should a

The 6.5 Chevy may have been a Gas conversion, but the 7.3 IS NOT it was made by International, who is known for making reliable Diesels. The 7.3 is a purpose built Diesel. The only ones I know of that were actual conversions were the early 6.2's put in Gm trucks.

Eclipse
01-29-2006, 10:55 AM
I'll add my comments to a few post:

Some people don't when they run in and out of a store cause it takes a few seconds to warm up the glo-plugs to start the engine (as opposed to spark plugs in a regular vehicle).

As mentioned it has more to do with turbo cooling. The glow plugs, or preheat systems, do not engauge on a warm engine or when the air temp is warm enough.

The truckers let the semi's idle for hours on end and then drive them 800,000 to 1.5 million miles while they pull 40k pounds

There is a problem with extended idling. At idle the engine is not put under enough of a load so therefore the combustion temps can fall too low to burn all the fuel entering the cylinder. The unburnt fuel then washes down the cyliner walls providing less lubrication and increased cylinder wear.

The big rigs can get away with this two different ways. They can increase the idle speed when at idle and/or they can engauge the jake brake just a little bit to keep more of the hot exhaust in the cylinders.


That is, unless you have a turbocharged diesel in which case when it is shut down you lose lubrication to the turbine bearing yet it will continue to spin down causing wear on the bearing. This lubrication also provides cooling. So shutting down a turbocharged diesel a lot will cause premature failure of the turbocharger. So with the turbocharged engine it is best to bring it down to low idle for a few minutes to slow the turbocharger and allow it to cool before shutting down. But, this isn't bad practice with any engine to prevent excessive heat soak."

For the most part I agree with these comments and they are sound advice. There is one problem, the turbo is driven by the exhaust. Shutting the engine down without a cool down period has very little to do with the speed of the turbo since at idle the speed of the turbo will close to the same before a cooldown period or after. It has everything to do with the internal heat trapped within the turbo and the "coking" of the oil inside the turbo if the turbo is not allowed to cool after a hard run.

And as far as shutting down and allowing for a cool down period, it is more important to consider it after you have been working the truck and therefore generating more heat to be retained by the turbo. If you are running around empty and driving without your foot in it a cool down period is not as important but if you just pulled up to a house after pulling your 10,000lb trailer across town the turbo would have more retained heat and allowing for a cool down period would be more important.


Lawntec,
With everything that has been said I would not let the fact that the truck is a diesel scare you off. If you buy one and drive it no differently than a gasser, as I bet the majority of diesel truck owners do, you sould still get a good service life out of it. Other than the fact that a Chevy 6.5l is a dog :) I think you will be happy with a diesel engine.

lawnmaniac883
01-29-2006, 11:44 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Was just about to say the same things. Great post right there.

CLARK LAWN
01-29-2006, 01:56 PM
"The big rigs can get away with this two different ways. They can increase the idle speed when at idle and/or they can engauge the jake brake just a little bit to keep more of the hot exhaust in the cylinders."
how do you engage the jake brake just a little? they are either on or off it is a toggle switch. if you engage the jake at idle it wont work they kick out at about 1000rpm's.

greenscapes,inc.
01-29-2006, 02:15 PM
Lots of incorrect information posted. I like to post info that I know for a fact to be correct. For example the second post. You don't have to warm your glow plugs every time you start it just in the morning or when it has been sitting for a long time. Diesel is everywhere its not hard to find. Also pulling a trailer I get about 5 mpg less. Im not a expert about diesels at all but I have owned a few and its good to know what your talking about when posting info

Eclipse
01-29-2006, 02:44 PM
how do you engage the jake brake just a little? they are either on or off it is a toggle switch. if you engage the jake at idle it wont work they kick out at about 1000rpm's.

I should have used the words exhaust brake instead of jake brake. Most big rigs do not have the same exhaust brake as found on the small diesel truck applications. The exhaust brakes on the smaller diesel applicaiton (pickups, some motorhomes) are not "jake brakes" as they are found in the big rigs but are no more than a butterfly valve in the exhaust and these can be partially engauged at idle to aid in engine warm up.

I know International, and I am guessing others, has a butterfly valve that does restrict the exhaust (in the same way an exhaust brake does) in order to keep the cylinder temperatures up but this butterfly valve is not use for breaking purposes, only for engine warm up.

One other thing that I just remembered is that Cummins and I believe International, and I'm guessing other manufactures as well, have a feature programmed into the ECM that will shut down the fuel injection into some of the cylinders. This creates more of a load on the engine and therefore keeps the cylinder temps up.

Gravel Rat
01-29-2006, 04:06 PM
They do say once you have gone diesel you never go back.

As for the 6.5 Chev watch out it is a turd of a engine if you want a Chevy diesel go with a Duramax. As for the Cummins its no different than any other engine is a throw away engine. People get so deep involved into Cummins reputation for building truck engines they figure the 5.9 is built just like the big engines.

Just because its a Cummins doesn't make it good just because its in a light truck doesn't make it any better. You put the same engine into a medium duty truck like one with a 33,000lb gvw its a POS just like the 444E.

The Cummins is a light duty engine don't kid youself or if it makes your EGO feel good then beleive the 5.9 Cummins is a big engine.

Cummins builds the 5.9s fast and cheap as they are used in so many other applications where a manufacturer wants a cheaper engine to power their compressors, welders etc. If Cummins wanted a rebuildable engine they would have put removable liners in them.

Medium duty truck engines start at the C-7 Cat, International 466,530,570 and the ISC Cummins.

As for idling a diesel its not good doesn't matter which brand or what size.

DUSTYCEDAR
01-29-2006, 05:04 PM
GR is right about the cummings its just an engine like the rest
it is also so dang loud u cluld wake the dead with it
i run a7.3 ps and i think it could be better but it works
as for diesel vs gas i have both and it all depends on what the truck is used for if u only run around town for work and dont put on a lot of miles gas is he way to go its cheeper to buy the truck and the fuel to put in it
if u r running all over town and doing long hauls diesel might be better for you
the last truck i bought was gas due to the lack of distance it is run in a year
and i also will get rid of the turck befor the engine needs work less then 80k

kc2006
01-29-2006, 06:51 PM
Like Eclipse posted about the big rigs turning their idle up (isn't it called opti-idle or something? I recall hearing my brother talk about it), the newer powerstrokes have that on their trucks. My brother in laws 99 if you let it sit for about 5 mins it kicks the idle up to 800 or 900 rpm, its really neat. Touch the pedals (brake or throttle) and it goes back to normal idle.

As for cool down periods, I have a gauge in my truck, 300-325 is when I shut my truck off, this takes maybe 10 seconds for it to get down to that point.

My personal beliefe on the start up issue is the fact that your cycling the glow plugs so many times and theres alot of mass in a diesel rotating assembly that its alot of stress on the starter. Just going to wear parts down sooner by starting so many times....but really, starting all the time on a mowing route is going to put added wear on gas or diesel starters and such. Just my thoughts.

kozmo
01-29-2006, 07:29 PM
Buy the diesel i have 2004 gmc diesel with the Allison trans best thing i ever did. Prior to buying i never thought i own a diesel for myself because of the noise but these new engines are much quieter than in past. and can take the miles i put 30gs a year on it never hauling a thing great truck

captken
01-29-2006, 08:40 PM
Lots of incorrect information posted. I like to post info that I know for a fact to be correct. For example the second post. You don't have to warm your glow plugs every time you start it just in the morning or when it has been sitting for a long time. Diesel is everywhere its not hard to find. Also pulling a trailer I get about 5 mpg less. Im not a expert about diesels at all but I have owned a few and its good to know what your talking about when posting info

Sometimes what you read is not the truth, it can be hard to separate fact from fiction.

Not everyone will want to steer you the right direction. And many simply do not know what they are talking about and post bogus information anyway.

lawnmaniac883
01-29-2006, 10:15 PM
Im not sure about the cummins being louder than the rest. The 12 valves are louder, sure but the newer powerstrokes sound like 1/2 the rockers are gonna fall off.

Gravel Rat
01-30-2006, 12:15 AM
The Cummins ISB has gone from the noisiest to the quietest in the bunch that is impressive in itself. First time I seen a new Dodge I couldn't believe that was a Cummins yes its very quiet. The old 12 valves and 24 valves are excessivly noisy it makes the paper thin sheet metal Dodge uses viberate like a harmonica.

The new Cummins isn't problem free a guy I know said his 05 Cummins has needed new injectors and a bunch of work done to the fuel system all under warrenty. The injectors are 1000 dollars each CND :eek:

Eclipse
01-30-2006, 01:14 AM
As for cool down periods, I have a gauge in my truck, 300-325 is when I shut my truck off, this takes maybe 10 seconds for it to get down to that point.

I assume your gauge is pre-trubo. The rule of thumb is 300 degrees post turbo. Having run both pre and post at one time there can be a huge time difference between when the pre turbo reaches 300 and when the post turbo reaches 300. The harder the truck has been worked the longer the delay.

With that said, most people don't ever wait and the chance anyone will have a problem is minimal with the life of the turbo is minimal.

MCYoder
02-01-2006, 12:59 PM
The new Duramax gets 360 hp and 650 lb ft torque... Duramax is a isuzu engine, also known for lasting in the cab-forward trucks..

As far as the 6.5 GM diesel, I was looking at one and was told to avoid that diesel because of all the problems with them. Try for a gas engine for that era