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View Full Version : 2 jobs from Hell


paponte
01-26-2006, 06:26 PM
Well since I saw Greenmosters thread about his wall that eveything that could have gone wrong did, it reminded me of a job we did last season. I really don't post much on here, and since it's not freaking snowing figured I would. First job is just a small patio we did for a good maintenance customer that wanted to use a particular patio block. St00pid me said ok to it. The absolute cheapest cr@p I have ever seen in my life! But he was stuck on it, and boy did it cost him.

After we picked up this wonder 18"x18" block and got it to the property, we noticed that about almost 1/2 of each pallet was either broken, or defected. So we sorted through them, and sent the guy back with the unusable pieces. Of course they don't have enough to replace it and have to get it for the next day. Next morning go get the block. By the time the driver got back to the yard... guess what?? More were broken. Long story short, base had to be absolute 100% perfect cause there was just no tamping these things once they were down. Will NEVER touch one of these block again... never. :nono:

sheshovel
01-26-2006, 06:44 PM
paponte..those look like those stepping stones..never the same thickness so varied almost makes it impossible to get them level with each othr..cheap and break..corners breaking,cracks right through them..I also swore off doing anything with those friggin things...not worth the hassle for any amnt of $$

looks like yours turned out ok though

paponte
01-26-2006, 06:50 PM
Second job was a 3 retaining wall, landing/step expansion -reface, driveway expand paver install, and sod/planting install. This job was bad luck from day one! Seemed like everyday we got to the job, we would set up work for an hour then it would pour on us. Machine snaped a tilt cylinder first day on the job ripping out the driveway, and had to finish by hand... of course in the rain. Retaining wall in the back was almost complete when the machine got stuck in the swamp and crashed into the wall. Bucket ended up catching the rear of the wall since the freaking bucket was in the air on it's way over. Thats ok, we stood and just stared at each other for a good 10 minutes then rebuilt the sucker all over again. Just peachy!

paponte
01-26-2006, 06:53 PM
Don't have any completely finished jobs, but this should give you an idea. The front caps arent on yet, and a couple of block have to be moved. We finished grading and topsoiled and sodded everything. Then when we were all done, the guy decides he wants to do a deck in the back too. :cry:

TriCountyLawn
01-26-2006, 07:25 PM
How much geo grid was used in the wall in the back ?

paponte
01-26-2006, 07:38 PM
How much geo grid was used in the wall in the back ?

We used grid every other course.

Dirty Water
01-26-2006, 08:28 PM
I imagined the guy playing human chess on that patio.

paponte
01-26-2006, 08:42 PM
I imagined the guy playing human chess on that patio.

lmao!! That was the joke on the job. One guy found humor at yelling... CHECKMATE!! :p

DVS Hardscaper
01-26-2006, 08:45 PM
They dont sound like "...jobs from Hell".

Just sounds like a rookie contractor :eek:

We all been there.

Always inspect the materials if a client is supplying. If they are of poor quality - don't do the job!

And be sure to plan where and how the loader will access the site. 5 yrs ago we did a big job on a very steep hill. In the fall. That was a HUGE learning experience, to say the least.

All these variables are always starring you right in the eye before you start. You just gotta know how to spot 'em :)

paponte
01-26-2006, 09:01 PM
They dont sound like "...jobs from Hell".

Just sounds like a rookie contractor

Hey, thats awfully nice of ya! As I stated the patio was for a VERY good maintenance customer of mine. Made him happy, and he rightfully compensated me for my time. It wasn't some call up where I would have easily walked away from the job.

As far as the jobsite access, I did mention that we lost alot of time on the job due to weather issues. There was no problem with access, there were problems with percipitation and soil conditions. To give you and idea on the soil in the area, we had to use 12" of base material ontop of geogrid for the driveway. Also had to sink 2 deep ontop of our base on the rear wall as well to avoid problems.

cgland
01-26-2006, 09:03 PM
Anything larger than an 8"x8" paver is no longer considered a "paver" it is considered a slab and is subject to a different install than a paver. Slabs must be mallet set, which adds a ton of extra labor. Slabs will also not bear as much of a load as traditional pavers will. (they tend to crack).

Sheshovel - They are a formed product, just like a paver. They are very consistant with regards to thickness.

Chris

paponte
01-26-2006, 09:22 PM
Anything larger than an 8"x8" paver is no longer considered a "paver" it is considered a slab and is subject to a different install than a paver.\

I believe it is anything larger than 12"x12". There are many paver units available that are 12x12. And yes anything over that is considered a patio block as stated.

cgland
01-26-2006, 09:48 PM
Try taking a plate compactor over a 12x12! You will probably have 75% damage.......hence If you can't take a plate compactor over it, it's not a paver.

P.S. I know the definitions, just speaking from experience.

Chris

sheshovel
01-26-2006, 10:05 PM
SO your telling me that a 12"x12" formed cement stepping stone is supposed to be called a "slab"?
I am confused now.
God forbid I speak of anything from experience!

YardPro
01-27-2006, 08:11 AM
SO your telling me that a 12"x12" formed cement stepping stone is supposed to be called a "slab"?
I am confused now.
God forbid I speak of anything from experience!


yes... the industry ( icpi.. etc..) calls them "slabs"..
they are not suitable for heavy loads and do not have the interlocking characteristics of a "paver"

and the guy was correct... the thickness of as you call it a "formed" concrete stepping stone.. is made in a factory and the thickness is uniform....

whatever experience you're speaking from obviously does not include any formal training......

kootoomootoo
01-27-2006, 12:31 PM
This job we did uses Unilock Il Campo 12x12's.
I spread 1/4in underlayment over the entire patio and then compacted.
They lock just fine.

neversatisfiedj
01-27-2006, 01:34 PM
I used 12x12's on my personal patio. Hanover product. 4 inch thick. tamper did not bother at all.

cleancutccl
01-27-2006, 06:41 PM
actually a paver has to have an overall face of less than 100.25", and have an aspect ratio (length x height) of less than 4. Just got certified by icpi.

paponte
01-27-2006, 07:40 PM
Try taking a plate compactor over a 12x12! You will probably have 75% damage.......hence If you can't take a plate compactor over it, it's not a paver.

P.S. I know the definitions, just speaking from experience.

Chris

I have, several times. As stated Campo IL is 12" x 12", as well as stonehenge units. Brussels block is also a larger unit I believe 13"x8". Like I said, there are many paver companies making large units now. The "block" I did for this customer was not a paving stone, it was mass produced absolute cr@p.

Dreams To Designs
01-28-2006, 12:10 PM
I have, several times. As stated Campo IL is 12" x 12", as well as stonehenge units. Brussels block is also a larger unit I believe 13"x8". Like I said, there are many paver companies making large units now. The "block" I did for this customer was not a paving stone, it was mass produced absolute cr@p.

Looks like Devon stone, which is a wet cast product. Much more difficult to install than pavers. Many of the manufacturers are putting out wet cast products to compete with the look of natural stone. They do make a very definitive look, not sure if I would have gone with that alternating pattern as it does look like a chess board.

Kirk

Mike33
02-02-2006, 12:55 AM
Kirk
Just sent you a e-mail with a pic. I had to increase my mail service to 20 mb. I really like the pro landscape soft ware each day it gets easier. The wall design has been a pain in the ass but coming around.
mike

sheshovel
02-02-2006, 01:45 AM
yes... the industry ( icpi.. etc..) calls them "slabs"..
they are not suitable for heavy loads and do not have the interlocking characteristics of a "paver"

and the guy was correct... the thickness of as you call it a "formed" concrete stepping stone.. is made in a factory and the thickness is uniform....

whatever experience you're speaking from obviously does not include any formal training......

You are correct Yardpro..
I have not had any "formal" training at all:blob1:

PurpHaze
02-02-2006, 09:37 AM
You are correct Yardpro. I have not had any "formal" training at all:blob1:

He probably thinks these are your tools of the trade. :)

YardPro
02-04-2006, 09:32 AM
sheshovel...
not trying to bust your chops, but what you were saying was just plain incorrect.
the 12X12's he was showing are factory made and are very uniform in thickness.
our paver companies (belgard, etc.) make them under different names....
if you have ever been to a paver factory and seen how precise these things are made, you would not have made that statement.....there is only a 1/16' varience allowed... that's pretty darn close....
and also the Paver industry does refer to these things as "slabs"....ask anyone that distributes, or manufacturers them...
pavers are called "pavers" becuase they are used as a "flexable paving system" they are suitable for high frequency pedestrian and vehicular traffic. Slabs are not... so they are not called "pavers"

PurpHaze
02-04-2006, 10:36 AM
pavers are called "pavers" becuase they are used as a "flexable paving system" they are suitable for high frequency pedestrian and vehicular traffic.

Damn... I DID worked on a paver job then about 23 years ago in Oregon! Worked for the state parks and we replaced several asphalt RV pads with interlocking (kind of look like a key without any grooves) "pavers" (I guess) on a sand base with treated timbers on the edges. They said they were used in Europe for roadways in some towns. The campground was subjected to snow each year and also had the typical ground squirrel problem with them burrowing under the pads. Idea was that the pavers would withstand the snow/freeze heaving and would be easier to repair for squirrel damage by removing sections of pavers, rebasing the area and then reinstalling the pavers. Killing the ground squirrels was NOT an option. :p