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View Full Version : Normally I would never do this.....


Drafto
02-03-2006, 10:01 PM
I was on an estimate the other day and to take a good picture of the proposed project area I had to go up on the neighbors lawn and I found this. After I saw this I asked the homeowner if she was getting any other estimates, she let me know that a guy that did work next door (the house in the pic) had given her an estimate.

These are $800,000 homes, I find it embarrassing at times when this is the work I am bidding against. Maybe the neighbors are thrilled with this work, who knows, but stuff like this is a reflection on ANYONE that installs pavers.

(Sorry if you did this work Mbella)

Drafto
02-03-2006, 10:03 PM
Oh, and the homes are less than 1 year old, this house was likely moved into in September!

Dan

cgland
02-03-2006, 10:15 PM
That looks like Mbella's signature restraining system. (patent pending)

Chris

mbella
02-03-2006, 10:26 PM
Yeah, I believe in efficiency. That's curbing and edging all in one.

Chris, where's my free 1550. I called Dean and he said YOU WON, with my ticket! Give it up!

cgland
02-03-2006, 10:32 PM
UUHHH! UUUMMM! UUHHH! I didn't steal your Wacker! I stole your tool bag kit! lol

Chris

mbella
02-03-2006, 10:43 PM
UUHHH! UUUMMM! UUHHH! I didn't steal your Wacker! I stole your tool bag kit! lol

Chris

I'm giving you until noon on Monday to turn it over to me. Otherwise, I'm sending Gino to retrieve it.

Oh, and the Wacker, you better come up with one of them too.

Drafto
02-03-2006, 11:11 PM
We should have gone to Annapolis, MD and had a 100% of getting a bag and a 1 in 16 chance of getting the compactor! I never to got to finish telling you guys that the Techo IS more expensive then the EP Henry. It is competitive but definatley more expensive.

The stairs and walls designs were completely different from what was discussed at the Versa-Loc seminar the other day.

Oh and I don't think just having insurance and a few job pics should be enough to get you in the program.


Dan

cgland
02-03-2006, 11:12 PM
I think the 12 month "no ICPI" grace period is BS!

Chris

Drafto
02-03-2006, 11:18 PM
I think the 12 month "no ICPI" grace period is BS!

Chris

I argree, I can understand the NCMA maybe, but everyone in the room was ICPI certified, that should at least be the minimum standard.

I wanted to raise my hand and ask them if they were going to have re-certification yearly, or job inspections yearly......I really think programs like this need to be monitored. My experience is so little, it would be nice to have someone come out every now and then and critique my work. I think it is nice and neat, never had an unhappy customer, but it would be nice to have at lest yearly inspections.

I mean, someone else needed to catch that cut Mike put on his first driveway besides me.

Dan

mbella
02-03-2006, 11:36 PM
I argree, I can understand the NCMA maybe, but everyone in the room was ICPI certified, that should at least be the minimum standard.

I wanted to raise my hand and ask them if they were going to have re-certification yearly, or job inspections yearly......I really think programs like this need to be monitored. My experience is so little, it would be nice to have someone come out every now and then and critique my work. I think it is nice and neat, never had an unhappy customer, but it would be nice to have at lest yearly inspections.

I mean, someone else needed to catch that cut Mike put on his first driveway besides me.

Dan

Dan, you are so wrong about that which you speak. There was a very good reason for that cut.

When the day comes that you can drag yourself from whichever all you can eat buffet you park yourself at these days, I would be happy to explain it to you.

Drafto
02-03-2006, 11:38 PM
Dan, you are so wrong about that which you speak. There was a very good reason for that cut.

When the day comes that you can drag your a s s from whichever all you can eat buffet you park your a s s at these days, I would be happy to explain it to you.

Hold on, I am wiping ketchup and bacon grease off my face........I have time now.

Dan

Dreams To Designs
02-04-2006, 08:23 AM
Dan, unfortunately that work is not unusual. Too many guys think that installing pavers are easy and never take the time to learn to do it correctly or cheat with improper base and materials. It gives the industry a bad name when this type of work is allowed to be sold at any price, but I'm sure it was cheap.

Chris, do you really think the ICPI certification is that helpful, or would you just like to see all the installers certified because it should strengthen the industry? I find the ICPI certification and testing to be a pay to play venture and no where near as helpful as interning with someone like yourself to really understand the mechanics and systems of paver and SRW installations. I am not against the ICPI, but feel it is not increasing the professionalism of installations as much as taking our money and not promoting itself or it's values to the public. More education is the key, just not sure ICPI is the best source.

Mike, be nice to Dan, us big guys have to stick together. I heard you were buying us all dinner one night at MAHTS. That's gonna be one big check!

Kirk

cgland
02-04-2006, 04:44 PM
Dreams - Truthfully, I think ICPI is a joke! At least at this point in time. It does give you some basic knowledge about soil types and compaction, but nothing on real world situations and how to solve them. You can't beat good, old fashioned field experience IMO1
As far as everyone being ICPI certified, I'm on the fence. It would be helpful to the industry as a whole, but it would also take away one of my selling points.:cry: My point about the 12 month grace period meant that I put my money and time in and I don't think that someone who hasn't should get the same perks as me. Who knows, maybe they will get 50 leads and I get 101 Is that fair? I don't think so!

Chris

Drafto
02-04-2006, 05:00 PM
Dreams - Truthfully, I think ICPI is a joke! At least at this point in time. It does give you some basic knowledge about soil types and compaction, but nothing on real world situations and how to solve them. You can't beat good, old fashioned field experience IMO1
As far as everyone being ICPI certified, I'm on the fence. It would be helpful to the industry as a whole, but it would also take away one of my selling points.:cry: My point about the 12 month grace period meant that I put my money and time in and I don't think that someone who hasn't should get the same perks as me. Who knows, maybe they will get 50 leads and I get 101 Is that fair? I don't think so!

Chris

I had SOME real world experience, 3 paver jobs on my own to be specific, prior to taking the ICPI course. After taking the class and becoming certified I have to say I definatley benefited from it. You get a chance to do some networking, meet some big names in the business, it motivated me to become more of a business person.

But I can admit in hindsight, I think the cert, and the class were a joke. I think I can best describe it by saying I would give it as much credit as being a memeber of the BBB (Better Business Bureau). Both look great when you advertise, and both are marketing tools, but in reality, they are just paper.

When I took the course, 1/2 the guys were doing it as a representitive of their company just to get the recognition and advertising from it. I think it did me good, but I am/was so determined to succeed with my business plan ICPI or not, I would have pressed on.

This all goes back to my thread with the disgusting edge restraint, failed paver installations reflect on us all. So if the ICPI can change the ratio of 8 out of 10 is bad to 5 out of 10 then I belive they are good for the industry. I firmly believe that the under cutters, and hackers out there will not be in business as long as me. Every year that goes by, every referral I earn, every marketing dollar I spend still puts me ahead of them, and I know they will be gone next year.

Remember, every year we are on Lawnsite making fun of each other is another year we beat the odds.

Dan

mbella
02-04-2006, 10:10 PM
I had SOME real world experience, 3 paver jobs on my own to be specific, prior to taking the ICPI course. After taking the class and becoming certified I have to say I definatley benefited from it. You get a chance to do some networking, meet some big names in the business, it motivated me to become more of a business person.

But I can admit in hindsight, I think the cert, and the class were a joke. I think I can best describe it by saying I would give it as much credit as being a memeber of the BBB (Better Business Bureau). Both look great when you advertise, and both are marketing tools, but in reality, they are just paper.

When I took the course, 1/2 the guys were doing it as a representitive of their company just to get the recognition and advertising from it. I think it did me good, but I am/was so determined to succeed with my business plan ICPI or not, I would have pressed on.

This all goes back to my thread with the disgusting edge restraint, failed paver installations reflect on us all. So if the ICPI can change the ratio of 8 out of 10 is bad to 5 out of 10 then I belive they are good for the industry. I firmly believe that the under cutters, and hackers out there will not be in business as long as me. Every year that goes by, every referral I earn, every marketing dollar I spend still puts me ahead of them, and I know they will be gone next year.

Remember, every year we are on Lawnsite making fun of each other is another year we beat the odds.

Dan

and another year you'll be at the front and back of the lunch line at MAHTS.:)

Seriously, my ICPI certification classes were very informative. I attribute that to the amount of experience my instructors possessed. Not just installing pavers, but installing them responsibly. They were, without a doubt, the most seasoned installers I have ever met. I can honestly say, they influenced how I currently install pavers.

My experience with the NCMA cert was just the opposite. The instructors were green and it was obvious that they only possessed the book knowledge. They couldn't answer most questions that pertained to "real world" problems. I felt like we just went through the motions with that cert.

Drafto
02-04-2006, 10:19 PM
[QUOTE=mbella]and another year you'll be at the front and back of the lunch line at MAHTS.:)

QUOTE]

Bastard! My instructor, Russ Heitman, was also very informative. He mainly spoke about the business side of pavers, which very much interested me. I agree with you about the techniques and hoe they affect how you currently install pavers but you could have learned that from a video. I guess that where I feel the ICPI is a great stepping stone, but Russ, Rex Mann, and some of the other instructors got where they are today without it.

Dan

Hey Mike, if you wee going to leave early why didn't you give someone else your badge so they could have gotten your free stuff from Techo for you. I am pissed I didn't get any 2X shirts, all my L and XL are fire wood.

Drafto
02-04-2006, 10:20 PM
Some of my post are disgusting, I have got to start remembering to use spell check.

Dan

mbella
02-04-2006, 10:34 PM
[QUOTE=mbella]and another year you'll be at the front and back of the lunch line at MAHTS.:)

QUOTE]

Bastard! My instructor, Russ Heitman, was also very informative. He mainly spoke about the business side of pavers, which very much interested me. I agree with you about the techniques and hoe they affect how you currently install pavers but you could have learned that from a video. I guess that where I feel the ICPI is a great stepping stone, but Russ, Rex Mann, and some of the other instructors got where they are today without it.

Dan

Hey Mike, if you wee going to leave early why didn't you give someone else your badge so they could have gotten your free stuff from Techo for you. I am pissed I didn't get any 2X shirts, all my L and XL are fire wood.

Well Dan, because I requested my "free stuff" before I departed! Did ya notice the "fake boobie" chick and the "not very well informed" marketing guy rush in and retrieve a set of the items of which you speak? Yep. They were retrieving those items for me. They even carried them to my limo.

mbella
02-04-2006, 10:37 PM
Some of my post are disgusting, I have got to start remembering to use spell check.

Dan

Yeah, spell check and Trimspa could be your best friends.

Drafto
02-04-2006, 10:49 PM
Yeah, spell check and Trimspa could be your best friends.

Check your PM box, your on fire tonight. I am working on estimates and I am completely being degraded, I will fire back when I am done, or when you are not on here to defend yourself. Could you post a pick of that driveway cut with an explanation for me?

mbella
02-04-2006, 10:55 PM
Check your PM box pr!ck, your on fire tonight. I am working on estimates and I am completely being degraded, I will fire back when I am done, or when you are not on here to defend yourself. Could you post a pick of that driveway cut with an explanation for me?

Sorry, I was busy moving furniture today and didn't check my pm box.

What are you estimating? Probably, the number of saturated fat grams you are going to consume during the Superbowl?

mbella
02-04-2006, 10:59 PM
Check your PM box pr!ck, your on fire tonight. I am working on estimates and I am completely being degraded, I will fire back when I am done, or when you are not on here to defend yourself. Could you post a pick of that driveway cut with an explanation for me?

I hope your foot fits in your mouth (I doubt there are many things that don't.) Because, when I post a pic explaining why I did what I did, you will need to open mouth and insert foot.

Drafto
02-04-2006, 11:00 PM
Sorry, I was busy moving furniture today and didn't check my pm box.

What are you estimating? Probably, the number of saturated fat grams you are going to consume during the Superbowl?

4 whole chickens ready for the charcoal rotisserie, 4 racks of baby back ribs (dry rub already prepared). We do this every year and I think 1 chicken and 1 rack of ribs might actually make it inside the house. Everything else gets canivorisouly inhaled before it even cools.

Oh, and I have some stuff for people other than myself too.

I am estimating a walkout patio with a ridiculous slope that the homeowner does not want steps on so they can wheel bikes down to the basement. Real attractive.

mbella
02-04-2006, 11:14 PM
4 whole chickens ready for the charcoal rotisserie, 4 racks of baby back ribs (dry rub already prepared). We do this every year and I think 1 chicken and 1 rack of ribs might actually make it inside the house. Everything else gets canivorisouly inhaled before it even cools.

Oh, and I have some stuff for people other than myself too.

I am estimating a walkout patio with a ridiculous slope that the homeowner does not want steps on so they can wheel bikes down to the basement. Real attractive.

Sounds good. Am I invited?

Drafto
02-04-2006, 11:23 PM
Sounds good. Am I invited?

So long as your not planning on eating anything, sure!