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Crystal Brook Landscape
02-08-2006, 11:17 PM
I don't participate much on this site, I'm not one with my computer yet. It's been mostly a very good resource for me.

I'm working on an patio estimate right now with questionable ground, the client stated that the ground is a little soft during the summer. I did some reading in one of the ICPI manuals and I came a cross the Florida Method for paver installation.

Maybe this is a dumb question, maybe I wasn't paying enough attention in class. Do any of you use this method when installing pavers on ground that you don't feel comfortable with. Generally we will find the source of the problem first like, drainage... and fix the problem but the way the book made it sound I could build a paver patio on a bog if I had the right amount of grid in.

Best regards,
Paul
Crystal Brook Landscape

UNISCAPER
02-10-2006, 01:40 AM
If it's what I'm thinking, they only use an inch of gravel down there. At least this paving company I stopped to talk to told me that's what they did when I was there in 2001. I did not even comment at that point, played dumb, then left shaking my head.

Crystal Brook Landscape
02-10-2006, 07:08 PM
That's the one, Interesting hu?

cleancutccl
02-10-2006, 07:16 PM
I talked with a guy from Phoenix, says that he bids his installs at $3.00 a square foot, and just compacts the sand that is there, doesn't do a base at all. Unbelievable. He was telling us all this at the ICPI course i attended. Rex Mann might have some insight into whether people actually do this down there or not.

UNISCAPER
02-10-2006, 09:51 PM
When ever I talk to the sales rep for our area at Pavestone, she tells me it is often they see $3.00 an SF brick paving prices. I'm betting they do the same stuff as Florida.

Heck for $3.00 an SF, you can pour concrete.

YardPro
02-10-2006, 10:18 PM
with sand you can reach almost 100%procter...

a lot of companies here(not us) just use an inch or two of gravel, sand on top and walla...
cheapest comapny here is about $8.00/sqft

UNISCAPER
02-10-2006, 10:53 PM
I mean't you can't pour concrete, not pour, and the Pavestone rep is in AZ.

100% proctor with sand? Making sand bricks, yup, sure. But, as soon as that sand get swet, your 100% goes to hell when plasticity developes

Rex Mann
02-10-2006, 11:29 PM
Prices in Phoenix start at about $3.50 a square foot for sand and pavers.
That means the installer is providing the pavers, sand and labor. No base materials. Some areas of Phoenix you do not need base material. The CBR is good and the soil is classified as having much less than 30% clay content. ICPI has recommended minimum base thicknesses. However, local soil engineers recommendations over ride the ICPI recommendations. Simply because the ICPI is making a general statement for the entire United States , not region by region.

We did just do a job, sand and pavers for $3.50 a square foot,using 80 mm Holland stone in a 90 degree herringbone.

You can hire crews to install for $1.50 a square foot. They only supply the labor and tools to complete the job. You would supply all the materials. And, they would only install the bedding sand and pavers for that price, no base would be installed for that price.

We are generally around the $6.00 a square foot mark, doing residential work.
We do little commercial because of all the Paver Whores in town have driven the price down.

Peace,

Rex

http://PaversInstalled.Com

UNISCAPER
02-11-2006, 02:49 AM
"We do little commercial because of all the Paver Whores in town have driven the price down."

Genisis, Systems, Legacy, Barzanni all ring bells??????

Squizzy246B
02-11-2006, 08:22 AM
"We do little commercial because of all the Paver Whores in town have driven the price down."

Know exactly where your coming from Bill.

Anyway, here in the wild west, well at least in Perth 90% of paving is laid on compacted sand. Because we are so dry and drainage is not an issue, done well, it will work very well. Done without care, compaction tests etc (as in most new places) if falls apart like a jelly sandwich. Me, well I'm terribly old fashioned and we put down 4" of crushed limestone and 4" of clean sand with compaction at every stage. This is particularly important when we get out in the Gravelly hills behind Perth.

YardPro
02-11-2006, 09:24 AM
crushed limestone is much worse than plain sand..
the icpi course said over and over " crushed limestone is not a suitable base..." they made sure to drill that one in our heads... must have heard it 100 times..

they say limestone has elongated particles that are slippery when wet and can slide across each other, cuasing movement, and not transfering the load...

and as for sand......... sand does not have much plasticity at all...
we are on an island here that is 100% sand...
it is so compact that you cannot hammer dirce a well point.. the point will not drive into the sand, the force of the impacts will break the galvanized pipe at the threads before you get 1' down......
house footers here are put straight on sand... no base or compaction neccesary...

that being said.... we use a minimum 4" base on walks, 6" on commercial walks, and 8-10" on driveways.

cheap insurance.

Squizzy246B
02-11-2006, 10:00 AM
crushed limestone is much worse than plain sand..
the icpi course said over and over " crushed limestone is not a suitable base..." they made sure to drill that one in our heads... must have heard it 100 times..
they say limestone has elongated particles that are slippery when wet and can slide across each other, cuasing movement, and not transfering the load...

Well, All I can say is that all our roads, highways, freeways and buildings are going to fall down soon...either that or they are full of S**t.

PurpHaze
02-11-2006, 11:18 AM
Well, All I can say is that all our roads, highways, freeways and buildings are going to fall down soon...either that or they are full of S**t.

Shouldn't be much of a problem down under. There's a tension obtained between the crushed limestone wanting to fall away from the earth and then gravity's pulling effect. Maintains the whole system in a stasis mode. :p

YardPro
02-12-2006, 02:03 AM
Well, All I can say is that all our roads, highways, freeways and buildings are going to fall down soon...either that or they are full of S**t.

i would think the latter is more true... like i said.. that is what they say.. never used limestone ( cannot even get it here), so i know nothing about it... except what i was told

YardPro
02-12-2006, 02:04 AM
Shouldn't be much of a problem down under. There's a tension obtained between the crushed limestone wanting to fall away from the earth and then gravity's pulling effect. Maintains the whole system in a stasis mode. :p


LOL guess since they are on the other side of the world, they do things opposite....:laugh: