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Lawnworks
02-09-2006, 08:45 PM
I am wiring Hunter PGVs and I want to be certain I am doing them right. They have two red wires w/ no markings. Which is the ground and which is AC? Does it matter? I am almost finished my first full installation, and much of the credit is due to your helpful advise.

Bobcat s250 NY
02-09-2006, 09:30 PM
Doesn't matter ! Just take one wire from each coil and put them together and attach it to your common,(usually white wire) and the other wire on each coil will go to your other colored wires for your stations.
:gunsfirin

Dirty Water
02-09-2006, 09:35 PM
AC Solinoids don't care about polarity.

Lawnworks
02-09-2006, 09:43 PM
Thanks! That is what I needed to know.

PurpHaze
02-09-2006, 10:07 PM
Actually, everyone is wrong!!!!!! If you put the wires on backwards the valve will work in reverse sending water and air up the main line to the POC. :p

bicmudpuppy
02-09-2006, 10:29 PM
Actually, everyone is wrong!!!!!! If you put the wires on backwards the valve will work in reverse sending water and air up the main line to the POC. :p
Not if he installed the backflow correctly :)

PurpHaze
02-09-2006, 10:37 PM
Not if he installed the backflow correctly :)

What's a backflow??? <jk> :p

sheshovel
02-09-2006, 10:50 PM
HAHA Mudpup got you on that one Purple!
Don't forget to protect and waterproof your wire connections!And not with black elect tape either!

PurpHaze
02-09-2006, 11:15 PM
HAHA Mudpup got you on that one Purple!

Frizzle frazzle. :p

Don't forget to protect and waterproof your wire connections!And not with black elect tape either!

I buy 3M DBY/DBR waterproof electrical connectors by the case. Always have 100 or so on hand because I can drop them in the ground, valve box or a make-up box real fast. :laugh:

Lawnworks
02-09-2006, 11:31 PM
I have got plenty of waterproof connectors. I can't believe how simple this 18-13 wire is going to be.

PurpHaze
02-09-2006, 11:35 PM
I have got plenty of waterproof connectors. I can't believe how simple this 18-13 wire is going to be.

Can someone post a picture of this 18-13 for a poor 14 gauger like me? :rolleyes:

Dirty Water
02-10-2006, 01:42 AM
18-13 is great, but we use 18-5,18-7, and 18-10 as well.

Often, we will run 18-13 out of the timer, but be branched down to 18-5 by the last valve box. The wire is more expensive than the time it takes to do a splice.

bicmudpuppy
02-10-2006, 07:23 AM
18-13 is great, but we use 18-5,18-7, and 18-10 as well.

Often, we will run 18-13 out of the timer, but be branched down to 18-5 by the last valve box. The wire is more expensive than the time it takes to do a splice.
I work pretty hard at not splicing where I can, but when I do, splicing in with only what I need and a spare or two is common. I use more 18-9/10 then anything, and often come out of the controller with a pair of multi. Say 18-5/7 for the short run and 18-9/10 for the long side of a system. Using a different size multi in the clock reduces some confusion as well, but often I will pull a short piece of poly from the clock location out to where my main is for a wire sleeve. If I can make that point a zone valve, it gets even easier :)

PurpHaze
02-10-2006, 09:17 AM
...but often I will pull a short piece of poly from the clock location out to where my main is for a wire sleeve. :)

We always conduit this stretch if necessary. Many times we'll be going several directions from that point where the wire meets the main so we'll then put in a wire make-up box (Christy F-8 or B-9 depending on how many wires) depending on the directions we're heading, how long a run and time restraints. I rarely use a valve's box as a make-up box because it's a PITA if repairs have to be made.

Here's a picture of a valve done by a contractor with all kinds of wire that were in the box. It was a tangle and I would have set a make-up box next to it but there was a 2-1/2" lateral line that doubled back right next to the hole. We just set the new valve box and let it be.

Wet_Boots
02-10-2006, 10:06 AM
Wire make-up box? Oh, c'mon, there's plenty of room in the valve box for wires! :p
<img src=http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/6049/eightvalvemanifold23fz.jpg>

PurpHaze
02-10-2006, 10:16 PM
Not when some brainiac gets the idea to wind 14 gauge. :p

bicmudpuppy
02-10-2006, 10:42 PM
Not when some brainiac gets the idea to wind 14 gauge. :p
BTW, FWIW, Boot's box pictures the multi strand wire you wanted a picture of. I get the camera and a clean piece of wire and I'll take a better pic for you, but I count 7 or more conductors in that wire. red, blue, yellow, orange, black, white, green. You asked about colors. Additional colors would be tan, grey, pink, purple, dk blue, brown. I think that would make 13. Sometimes you see a clear instead. The shades often do not match from lot to lot and brand to brand. With 13 conductor, 2 shades of blue in the bundle is normal.

PurpHaze
02-10-2006, 10:50 PM
Thanks BIC. Now that I know what you're talking about I've used it in the past. What's the maximum number of colors in a multi-strand like this? How would you handle a large project where you ran out of colors? Guess you'd just drop in a second cable and start the colors over? At least you'd have a 50/50 chance at the controller.

I can see the advantages of multi if you had all your valves fairly close together. But on a large project with spaced valves you're going to do a lot of splicing or at the very least skinning the insulation and then cutting and splicing the color you want for a particular valve.

Dirty Water
02-10-2006, 10:53 PM
Thanks BIC. Now that I know what you're talking about I've used it in the past. What's the maximum number of colors in a multi-strand like this? How would you handle a large project where you ran out of colors? Guess you'd just drop in a second cable and start the colors over? At least you'd have a 50/50 chance at the controller.

Its easy, you only have to get one wire right :)


I can see the advantages of multi if you had all your valves fairly close together. But on a large project with spaced valves you're going to do a lot of splicing or at the very least skinning the insulation and then cutting and splicing the color you want for a particular valve.

Multi works great for us, plan out your mainline right, run it down and tie off a big loop where each manifold is. If there is a spur, run a 5 conductor down the spur to that manifold and tie it back into the nearest manifold that has a loop of 13 wire.

I gaurantee I can roll it out faster than you can roll out all your 14 guage zone wire :)

Lawnworks
02-11-2006, 01:11 AM
Got them wired! Its a great feeling seeing those things pop-up after so many hours of work. Feel like I might have done something right!

bicmudpuppy
02-11-2006, 09:08 AM
Thanks BIC. Now that I know what you're talking about I've used it in the past. What's the maximum number of colors in a multi-strand like this? How would you handle a large project where you ran out of colors? Guess you'd just drop in a second cable and start the colors over? At least you'd have a 50/50 chance at the controller.

I can see the advantages of multi if you had all your valves fairly close together. But on a large project with spaced valves you're going to do a lot of splicing or at the very least skinning the insulation and then cutting and splicing the color you want for a particular valve.
You pull up a loop of wire at each valve and split the insulation. Inside the cable is a string pull for stripping the outer jacket. If I have a 12 zone system (about as big as most residentials would be except for very upper end). Say you have 5 zones in front and 7 in back. I pull a 7 conductor toward the front (5+common+ spare). And a 9 or 10 conductor to the back. If I want an extra spare, I add a 14 or 16 UF common with the multi and then the white becomes extra. When making corners, pull up and there is usually enough slop in the pull trench to pull the wire through for the next pull without splicing. Also, if you do this carefully, you have enough to pull your loops back for each valve. As to colors.........13 is pretty much it. I haven't ever seen anything larger in 18ga solid, but you do get one color per wire. 1000' is max for 18ga with a 14 common unless you like to live on the edge :)
When was the last time you saw a system that needed more than 13 valves in 1000'? IF the clock is centrally located, you can go two or three directions so you get 26 or 39 valves and as far as taging which is which? Once you know which leg is which, they all wire up nicely! And when I "cheat" and use two different size multi in the controller for my residential splits, then I know which one is which.

Wet_Boots
02-11-2006, 09:16 AM
If not noted before, the black outer jacket of 'irrigation' multi-conductor is polyethylene, which makes it fit for being pulled like poly pipe. Is that sort of wire the one the fire ants will eat? If so, I wonder if someone ever did a test with an un-energized piece of multi-conductor, to see to what extent it's the electric field that's attracting the ants.

bicmudpuppy
02-11-2006, 09:25 AM
If not noted before, the black outer jacket of 'irrigation' multi-conductor is polyethylene, which makes it fit for being pulled like poly pipe. Is that sort of wire the one the fire ants will eat? If so, I wonder if someone ever did a test with an un-energized piece of multi-conductor, to see to what extent it's the electric field that's attracting the ants.
Your probably right, but they don't seem to bother the heavier UF wire. Those nasty bastards love to invade controllers too. I'm lucky, I'm not extremely allergic to them. Trade magazines have run pictures of guys swollen up like balloons from Fire Ant bites. I just get sick after 10 or so good hits. Takes a few days to start feeling better. In the hot summer months down there, that usually meant it took just enough time to get better to get bit again :(

PurpHaze
02-11-2006, 10:40 AM
Got them wired! Its a great feeling seeing those things pop-up after so many hours of work. Feel like I might have done something right!

Congratulations Lawnworks!!!!! As many systems that I have designed and installed I'm still like a little kid when a zone is fired for the first time. I always run a full test on the entire system, watch the coverage and make minor adjustments where necessary. :waving:

PurpHaze
02-11-2006, 10:48 AM
When was the last time you saw a system that needed more than 13 valves in 1000'? IF the clock is centrally located, you can go two or three directions so you get 26 or 39 valves and as far as taging which is which? Once you know which leg is which, they all wire up nicely! And when I "cheat" and use two different size multi in the controller for my residential splits, then I know which one is which.

I can see the advantages of using this multi-strand wire on residential or medium commercial system installs. Come to think of it this is the same wire I used to automate my dad's system before he sold his house. We came out of the attic, down a side wall (in conduit) and then split directions to front and back. We did it this way because he wanted the controller in his garage and the one side of the house was landlocked. I'd totally forgotten about this.